Topics

How to better speed on a 1985 std rig


Christopher Wolcott
 

I participated in a local regatta this weekend.  I was in Fleet 1, but out of 3 races and 5 fleets, I came in dead last twice, second to last once.  First race was a comedy of errors on my part, but second and third races I got a good start and was doing OK until the wind died from 8ish to 0.  When it came back it was in the 2 to 4 area.  I was the only boat I know of that was single handing it.  I was handicapped for a production rig, but I dont think even having the highest handicap will redeem these proformances.  

The boat is sensitve to balence changes, so locking the wheel to adjust sails while tacking or wind shifts usually results in a corse change, sometimes dramatic.  The boat has a 120 Genny that overpowers the rudder on a tack unless done very carefully.  Being single handed I was adjusting the main primarily with the traveller.  Low wind speed seems to affect my boat way more than the others.

I don't want racing sails nor a spinaker.   What can I do procedure wise to better my performance? 

Thanks
--
~ ~ ~ _/)  ~ ~ ~ 
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

s/v Pretty Girl
1985 Catalina 30 Mk I Std Rig Fin Keel 
Sail # 4197
Universal M-25


Steve
 

Just learn to sail, it's not the boat, I have the same issues, it's impossible to race singlehanded (I don't have an auto pilot), you are too busy to observe your envelope if you are busy making it. I'm talking about buoy racing, you have a better chance in long distance racing since you make less mistakes in tacking.
I race to be on the water and when I have a crew member it even if they don't have a lot of experience it is way better since I have time to look at the water, see where the puffs are, sense changes in wind direction and current, the stuff that happens while you are running over to adjust the traveler or trim a sail to find it's too late you missed it.
If I sat in an F1 Ferrari I would not do better lap times than a slower McLearn just because it's the faster car and sometimes the faster car gets beat because of a mistake in a single turn.




Steve 
Razors Edge, Anacortes Washington
82 Catalina 30 Std rig #2522 M-25

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 5:05 AM Christopher Wolcott <chriswlctt@...> wrote:
I participated in a local regatta this weekend.  I was in Fleet 1, but out of 3 races and 5 fleets, I came in dead last twice, second to last once.  First race was a comedy of errors on my part, but second and third races I got a good start and was doing OK until the wind died from 8ish to 0.  When it came back it was in the 2 to 4 area.  I was the only boat I know of that was single handing it.  I was handicapped for a production rig, but I dont think even having the highest handicap will redeem these proformances.  

The boat is sensitve to balence changes, so locking the wheel to adjust sails while tacking or wind shifts usually results in a corse change, sometimes dramatic.  The boat has a 120 Genny that overpowers the rudder on a tack unless done very carefully.  Being single handed I was adjusting the main primarily with the traveller.  Low wind speed seems to affect my boat way more than the others.

I don't want racing sails nor a spinaker.   What can I do procedure wise to better my performance? 

Thanks
--
~ ~ ~ _/)  ~ ~ ~ 
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

s/v Pretty Girl
1985 Catalina 30 Mk I Std Rig Fin Keel 
Sail # 4197
Universal M-25



--
Steve Perea
eSells
720-352-5800

--
Steve 
Razors Edge, Cap Sante Marina, Anacortes Washington
81 Catalina 30 Std rig #2522 M-25


KWKloeber
 

Chris

That’s easy!!   Continue doing and improving on what you did when you weren’t dead last.  LOL. 

I wouldn’t expect to learn how to sail (and by that  I mean any part of it, which nearly, but not all, translates to speed) during a race. Would you use a race to teach a crew about safety?  Or engine maintenance?  Learning sail set is more involved and variable than those.  You’ll just frustrate yourself and develop bad habits. 

Suggest you get out a couple to several times a week and try/adjust/learn/fail/tweak/improve, then practice/practice what works. Then apply that during a race. 
There’s no magic bullet that overnight is gonna bring you in the top of the fleet. And you don’t have time to do the experimenting during a race.
You might preface test with a North Sails online course and practice the techniques. 

Without seeing vids of your sail sets it would be shooting in the dark to recommend something. 

Ken

Sent from my phone

On Oct 4, 2020, at 8:05 AM, Christopher Wolcott <chriswlctt@...> wrote:

I participated in a local regatta this weekend.  I was in Fleet 1, but out of 3 races and 5 fleets, I came in dead last twice, second to last once.  First race was a comedy of errors on my part, but second and third races I got a good start and was doing OK until the wind died from 8ish to 0.  When it came back it was in the 2 to 4 area.  I was the only boat I know of that was single handing it.  I was handicapped for a production rig, but I dont think even having the highest handicap will redeem these proformances.  

The boat is sensitve to balence changes, so locking the wheel to adjust sails while tacking or wind shifts usually results in a corse change, sometimes dramatic.  The boat has a 120 Genny that overpowers the rudder on a tack unless done very carefully.  Being single handed I was adjusting the main primarily with the traveller.  Low wind speed seems to affect my boat way more than the others.

I don't want racing sails nor a spinaker.   What can I do procedure wise to better my performance? 

Thanks
--
~ ~ ~ _/)  ~ ~ ~ 
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

s/v Pretty Girl
1985 Catalina 30 Mk I Std Rig Fin Keel 
Sail # 4197
Universal M-25


Steve
 

PS How recent is your bottom job? do you have a brush to clean off as much of the bottom as you can the day before a race? A clean bottom helps a lot in light air, mark your wheel and keep the rudder centered, adjusting the sails instead of adjusting the rudder creates a lot of drag, hurts your acceleration, if the wheel is far off center the sails are not trimmed.
You also didn't mention, where were you slowing down? Upwind, downwind?
Sitting on the downwind side in light air helps put the right planform of the hull in the water and gives the sails more shape.
Do you have tell tales on the sails, they are cheap and really help to see the sail shape, then when you notice problems you can decide on how to warp things to even the shape, like the back stay, downwind the vang.
Knowing how to sail is the easy part, actually making it happen is hard, sometimes not messing constantly with trim and steering a good course and taking advantage of lifts is better.
Still fun though.

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 9:21 AM KWKloeber via groups.io <KWKloeber=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Chris

That’s easy!!   Continue doing and improving on what you did when you weren’t dead last.  LOL. 

I wouldn’t expect to learn how to sail (and by that  I mean any part of it, which nearly, but not all, translates to speed) during a race. Would you use a race to teach a crew about safety?  Or engine maintenance?  Learning sail set is more involved and variable than those.  You’ll just frustrate yourself and develop bad habits. 

Suggest you get out a couple to several times a week and try/adjust/learn/fail/tweak/improve, then practice/practice what works. Then apply that during a race. 
There’s no magic bullet that overnight is gonna bring you in the top of the fleet. And you don’t have time to do the experimenting during a race.
You might preface test with a North Sails online course and practice the techniques. 

Without seeing vids of your sail sets it would be shooting in the dark to recommend something. 

Ken

Sent from my phone

On Oct 4, 2020, at 8:05 AM, Christopher Wolcott <chriswlctt@...> wrote:

I participated in a local regatta this weekend.  I was in Fleet 1, but out of 3 races and 5 fleets, I came in dead last twice, second to last once.  First race was a comedy of errors on my part, but second and third races I got a good start and was doing OK until the wind died from 8ish to 0.  When it came back it was in the 2 to 4 area.  I was the only boat I know of that was single handing it.  I was handicapped for a production rig, but I dont think even having the highest handicap will redeem these proformances.  

The boat is sensitve to balence changes, so locking the wheel to adjust sails while tacking or wind shifts usually results in a corse change, sometimes dramatic.  The boat has a 120 Genny that overpowers the rudder on a tack unless done very carefully.  Being single handed I was adjusting the main primarily with the traveller.  Low wind speed seems to affect my boat way more than the others.

I don't want racing sails nor a spinaker.   What can I do procedure wise to better my performance? 

Thanks
--
~ ~ ~ _/)  ~ ~ ~ 
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

s/v Pretty Girl
1985 Catalina 30 Mk I Std Rig Fin Keel 
Sail # 4197
Universal M-25



--
Steve Perea
eSells
720-352-5800

--
Steve 
Razors Edge, Cap Sante Marina, Anacortes Washington
81 Catalina 30 Std rig #2522 M-25


Josh Norten
 

Christopher:

I have a SR like you and get clobbered with my 135 genoa in light air.  Our PHRF fleet saw at least five different C30s race this summer.  I counted up to four on one night.  Usually 2-3 raced.

Speaking of handicaps, my 213 JAM PHRF is the slowest boat in the fleet out of 30+ boats.  I still lose.  I get some credit for a 3 blade fixed prop and furling headsail, but NO credit is given for a small headsail.  Penalties for bigger than 155 I think.  Some take the penalty because they still come out ahead.  I read somewhere that PHRF will give small headsail credit next year??

At any rate, in windy conditions everyone attains hull speed.  You will compete more in heavy air.  Big sails, small sails, good trim, so-so trim, SR, TR. . . . none of it really matters as we all attain the C30 hull speed.  Note--we went full sails the other day in 15 sustained and gusts to 20.  Again, SR w/ 135.  It was ahem exciting, but not crazy irresponsible.

I don't yet have the choice of headsails--I have only a 135.  However, I noticed one C30 in our fleet (Steve G. who contributes to this forum). . .going back a ways we competed with him.  But then earlier this season, he started running with the big dogs (i.e. fast C30s).  I think it's because he switched to a 150 or 155 headsail and I didn't notice.  If he reads this, then perhaps he can confirm.

That extra canvas in light air MAKES A DIFFERENCE.  In heavy air, less so.

Get out there and love on your C30!


--
Josh Norten
s/v Esperanza
MK1 1982 #2462 SR
Universal 5411
Waukegan, IL


Christopher Wolcott
 

I had a crew-person lined up, but they had to drop at the last minute.  Because of the Covid hype I could not find a replacement.  That would have been the number one benefit.  (Besides a consistent wind.)

Two of the five fleets in the regatta were cruiser fleets, I was in one of those.  We were not doing the Windward/Leeward style of HPRF race.

I DO know how to sail, have been sailing most of my life.  Due to the nature of where and how I tend to sail (Lakes & Bays and alone or as the only one who knows how to sail) the purpose was more to relax and enjoy, not to wring the last drop of speed out of the boat.  I have been reading and practicing better sail trim, but that is something I'm still learning.

The boat needs a new bottom job, has for years.  Unfortunately something always comes along that we either need to or the wife wants to spend the money put aside for it on.  The boat was short hauled in the spring for a pressure wash and to replace the anode.  I tried to scrub the hull as best I could before the race.

The purpose of the original post was to inquire about how other people handle their C30s and try to get any hints on better lite air techniques.  Also any hints on how to better control the boat when tacking or adjusting sails when single handed.

I did not expect to place in the top 3, but I would have liked to finish at least with the 2nd fleet boats.  (I was 1st fleet.)  I had run this regatta several years ago single handed in my then boat, an O'Day 23 and did place 3rd in my fleet after two days of races.

--
~ ~ ~ _/)  ~ ~ ~ 
  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

s/v Pretty Girl
1985 Catalina 30 Mk I Std Rig Fin Keel 
Sail # 4197
Universal M-25


Aaron Schneider
 

We sail in light air pretty regularly in Puget Sound so 0-8kts isn't at all unfamiliar. Up front I've got to say you should probably expect to lose with a 120 headsail in light wind unless you are getting serious corrected time credit for such a small genoa - doubt you are. A dirty bottom and fixed 3-blade prop is only going to exacerbate the problem. C30 is a heavy boat and doesn't move particularly well in the light stuff even with a 155. 
 
A few thoughts on light air sailing: your tacks and gybes should be gentle in light air so as to avoid the rudder acting like a brake and carrying what boat speed you do have through the maneuver - more of an S than a right angle - and you want to do as little of this as possible given low win. You should keep some twist in your main to help keep airflow 'attached' - closing the leech paradoxically hurts in the really light stuff (note: this may mean you need to apply a little topping lift). Ease your halyards slightly to create a more rounded entry. Trim in the upper 2/3s of the sail is more important than the bottom at low windspeeds. You will want some vang downwind or whenever your boom is further outboard than your traveler to maintain sail shape. Bear off for speed first, then gently head up to maintain boatspeed - this increases apparent windspeed beyond where you would get by just pointing up without accelerating first. Don't sail DDW if you want to maintain any boat speed. 
 
For boat setup when single handing you'll obviously want lines led aft so you can do as much as possible from the cockpit. Minimize movement about the boat. I find I get better performance with a slight heel to leeward in light wind so consider moving to that side if you aren't already. When the wind is barely moving I've occasionally run into issues with the headsail backwinding and carrying the boat back onto the original point of sail - don't sheet it in until you're completely through the tack if that is happening. Do you have tell tails to sail to? If not, I'd get them if you'll be racing - especially helpful in light wind. 


Steve
 

I forgot to add, if the wind is light use the smallest dia sheets you have, mine don't work in the self tailing winch but in light wind I don't need it, that will help keep the sail shape, here in the PNW we have currents so I sail that as much as the wind and have won races by getting in or out of currents when the wind is 3 knots.
if it's roller furling I would wrap it up and make it self tacking, the amount of time moving forward and back for trimming kills what you gain with 20% more sail and increases the chance of mistakes and doing a start in heavy traffic. Then you just have to deal with trimming the main to the puffs.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 11:26 AM Aaron Schneider <aaroncschneider@...> wrote:
We sail in light air pretty regularly in Puget Sound so 0-8kts isn't at all unfamiliar. Up front I've got to say you should probably expect to lose with a 120 headsail in light wind unless you are getting serious corrected time credit for such a small genoa - doubt you are. A dirty bottom and fixed 3-blade prop is only going to exacerbate the problem. C30 is a heavy boat and doesn't move particularly well in the light stuff even with a 155. 
 
A few thoughts on light air sailing: your tacks and gybes should be gentle in light air so as to avoid the rudder acting like a brake and carrying what boat speed you do have through the maneuver - more of an S than a right angle - and you want to do as little of this as possible given low win. You should keep some twist in your main to help keep airflow 'attached' - closing the leech paradoxically hurts in the really light stuff (note: this may mean you need to apply a little topping lift). Ease your halyards slightly to create a more rounded entry. Trim in the upper 2/3s of the sail is more important than the bottom at low windspeeds. You will want some vang downwind or whenever your boom is further outboard than your traveler to maintain sail shape. Bear off for speed first, then gently head up to maintain boatspeed - this increases apparent windspeed beyond where you would get by just pointing up without accelerating first. Don't sail DDW if you want to maintain any boat speed. 
 
For boat setup when single handing you'll obviously want lines led aft so you can do as much as possible from the cockpit. Minimize movement about the boat. I find I get better performance with a slight heel to leeward in light wind so consider moving to that side if you aren't already. When the wind is barely moving I've occasionally run into issues with the headsail backwinding and carrying the boat back onto the original point of sail - don't sheet it in until you're completely through the tack if that is happening. Do you have tell tails to sail to? If not, I'd get them if you'll be racing - especially helpful in light wind. 



--
Steve Perea
eSells
720-352-5800

--
Steve 
Razors Edge, Cap Sante Marina, Anacortes Washington
81 Catalina 30 Std rig #2522 M-25


w
 

 

 

All the advice above is good but I’ll throw some controversial stuff out.

Up wind I trim in the head sail right to the spreaders using the inside track. The main I trim on the centerline, the sail not the boom which is windward. The goal is to not stall the leach tell tails and to avoid backwinding the main at all cost. Sometimes I run a line on the jib to pull it inboard even farther while keeping a good shape. Tell tails are everything. Try to keep them all flowing. The sails are your engines. No luffing, no backwinding.

 

Off the wind I sheet the jib to the toe rail and further forward. I clip on a temporary line for that and slack the sheet. I make most of my gains off the wind. I use a pole if I can.

 

Sail downwind as best you can wile keeping everything flowing then transition to dead down wind, wing on wing with your pole. Your pole is your friend.

 

Single handing  I use my Pelagic tiller auto pilot. It is wonderful. About a thousand clams but well worth it.

 

To tack hold the tack button, blow the jib. Move the traveler for the new heading while it’s unloaded, and by then the jib will be over on the other side. Pull like hell and winch the last little bit in then after panting some look around and fine tune the pilot when the boats moving well.

 

Let the prop spin. PHRF is a bitch. It seems the boats with the lowest ratings always win.

 

Wally Erickson

Little Hope TRBS

San Diego

 

 


Dennis
 

Wally wait till you check out the new, effective January 2019, PHRF rating offsets.Your rating went from 215 with NSO down to 208! If your headsail is larger than 135% you lose another 3 sec./mi. Apparently laminate sails are considered standard because you gain 2 sec/mi if all the sails are all dacron (laminate sails used to cost you 6 sec/mi per sail) Check it out in Appendix F of the SoCal PHRF rules. The revised ratings haven't been incorporated in the SDCatalina group yet but I suspect that they will be for 2021. Yup, PHRF is a B.............
Dennis Jackson
Paradise SRFK
San Diego