Topics

USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation #regulation


 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   
Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


Ken Vannorsdall, 5701, 89 C30, trfkbs
 

Skipper Lynch,

OMG! I'm laughing so hard!  Your CNN spin line had got to go down as the number one funniest line of all Catalina 30 winter thread's EVER!  

And as usual,  your rebuttal is spot on.

87 days until launch.

Ken V
Sailing the north coast of Ohio



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: "Thomas J. Lynch" <t@...>
Date: 1/4/19 11:17 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


Ken Vannorsdall, 5701, 89 C30, trfkbs
 

Here Is a YouTube link :

Its Patrick Huston Daley, the coolest 
SOB in the world.

He's a Put-In-Bay bar room singer. 

He sings: its going to be alright. 

https://youtu.be/dRjMWK-ixHk

If the link doesn't make it the go to YouTube and search "Pat Daley, its going to be alright "

Almost 86 days to launch 

KB



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: "Ken Vannorsdall, 5701, 89 C30, trfkbs via Groups.Io" <jibkid@...>
Date: 1/4/19 11:37 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

Skipper Lynch,

OMG! I'm laughing so hard!  Your CNN spin line had got to go down as the number one funniest line of all Catalina 30 winter thread's EVER!  

And as usual,  your rebuttal is spot on.

87 days until launch.

Ken V
Sailing the north coast of Ohio



Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: "Thomas J. Lynch" <t@...>
Date: 1/4/19 11:17 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


KWKloeber
 

Ken

Pat is a riot.  A little "rough" sometimes (make sure there's no youngsters around), but nonetheless his CD is a permanent fixture on the boat. 

-k


 

Thomas
No spin in my response.... that's why I posted the full email responses from USCG HQ and NVDC along with some others. 
Have you read the full responses or just venting?

Why don't you respond the those USCG folks and see what THEY tell you. Happy to provide contact info if you like.
I haven't seen one supporting piece of info from you from a credible source.. only your position stated very convincingly but NOT SUPPORTED with any evidence.

SHOW US SOME CREDIBLE SUPPORT IN WRITING
 


On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


 

Thomas

You make a BIG deal about searching....

"I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???"


Don't you have the vessel owner aboard?
How do you know where to look for MARPOL & Oil Discharge placards? How about signaling devices, etc

This not difficult stuff... 
When I do a VE owner points out where items are and I observe and check for compliance.

I think you don't realize that you are in a hole and still digging! 
Stop digging and call for help... 
Show us something (or someone) in writing that supports your position!
I showed you mine.... show me yours!













On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 

The evidence is the guys with the guns on the boats in New York (1SR) & Philadelphia (5NR) , and the my 11 VEs and my own over 1,000 VEs in the last 20 years look for an immediately and clearly visable Doc # which means quickly and  easily seen. Not requiring discussion, direction, looking in this cabin or that compartment or in a sock drawer where you wife thinks its not ugly or  deviating from the obvious and easily comprehended "clearly visable".  Not sure wgat you cant understand about that directive? Its never been  an issue in the real world. Just here in Goofeville abd Facebook and couchpotato debate, law and rules discussion? ;-)

You are like some whiney entitiled millennial argueing with the cop on the side of the road.  

I am not venting.....and I am not talking about fake news or a piece of paper out of the chain of command. Do you know how many patrols or  inspections the NVDC has ever done OR where it is?? Answer : Zero and West Virginia. 

Just paper and backoffice. Not operations or mission. Enuff said.  

The field and real life experience and reality right now is - you fail. Just like your arguement.

As they say to the 535 in the Senate and Congress when they whine etc : Write a bill/law.

When I see this change or "clarification" in the USCG training, from the USCG Commandant or DIRAUX, or even CG-BSX (boating safety) of which I am a certified instructor for 18 years I will take note.

Until then I must still end with its an experienced, real life and practical FAIL. Not just by me but hundreds of VEs and thousands of boats and by hundreds of Captains and Owners who all miraculously and magically seem to know what Clearly Visable means. Sorry. Case closed.

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:16 AM -0500, "Bacchus" <dkloeber54@...> wrote:

Thomas
No spin in my response.... that's why I posted the full email responses from USCG HQ and NVDC along with some others. 
Have you read the full responses or just venting?

Why don't you respond the those USCG folks and see what THEY tell you. Happy to provide contact info if you like.
I haven't seen one supporting piece of info from you from a credible source.. only your position stated very convincingly but NOT SUPPORTED with any evidence.

SHOW US SOME CREDIBLE SUPPORT IN WRITING
 


On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 

When your boat is stolen, or lost and now found by law enforxement or whomever - where are you or the owner to discuss

When the patrol boats board, especially with cause.  The operators or even captain or passangers are detained usually on deck.   Nobody is chatting it up having crumpets and coffee and saying "hey buddy the googlegroup guy said i can put the plaque thing in the engine compartment and here is a message from some guys in West Viginia in cubicles that says so. "

I chat it up all the time and am doing a Courtesy Vessel Inspection. And with no legal or law enforcement repercussions. 

I am advising what is needed or mussing so if and when they are stopped they know what the regular coasties or law enforcenent are looking for or will cite them for.

I have done the same for you multiple times here.

You want to argue.  That is fine.  You FAIL for the courtesy sticker and can go discuss with law enforcement or in court.

I am not getting an email or phone call while they are on your boat or later from the Secror Comnand asking why I checked and awarded a sticker for a boat that failed.....

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:32 AM -0500, "Bacchus" <dkloeber54@...> wrote:

Thomas

You make a BIG deal about searching....

"I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???"


Don't you have the vessel owner aboard?
How do you know where to look for MARPOL & Oil Discharge placards? How about signaling devices, etc

This not difficult stuff... 
When I do a VE owner points out where items are and I observe and check for compliance.

I think you don't realize that you are in a hole and still digging! 
Stop digging and call for help... 
Show us something (or someone) in writing that supports your position!
I showed you mine.... show me yours!













On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


Daniel Oliver <danjazn@...>
 

Gee and there I thought you two would finally get along. Thanks again for allowing us all to read this enlightening back and worth....... are we at 80 responses or is it 95?........In other words, every one else say it, "shut the **** up!"

Dan



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Thomas J. Lynch" <t@...>
Date: 1/5/19 5:24 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

When your boat is stolen, or lost and now found by law enforxement or whomever - where are you or the owner to discuss

When the patrol boats board, especially with cause.  The operators or even captain or passangers are detained usually on deck.   Nobody is chatting it up having crumpets and coffee and saying "hey buddy the googlegroup guy said i can put the plaque thing in the engine compartment and here is a message from some guys in West Viginia in cubicles that says so. "

I chat it up all the time and am doing a Courtesy Vessel Inspection. And with no legal or law enforcement repercussions. 

I am advising what is needed or mussing so if and when they are stopped they know what the regular coasties or law enforcenent are looking for or will cite them for.

I have done the same for you multiple times here.

You want to argue.  That is fine.  You FAIL for the courtesy sticker and can go discuss with law enforcement or in court.

I am not getting an email or phone call while they are on your boat or later from the Secror Comnand asking why I checked and awarded a sticker for a boat that failed.....

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:32 AM -0500, "Bacchus" <dkloeber54@...> wrote:

Thomas

You make a BIG deal about searching....

"I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???"


Don't you have the vessel owner aboard?
How do you know where to look for MARPOL & Oil Discharge placards? How about signaling devices, etc

This not difficult stuff... 
When I do a VE owner points out where items are and I observe and check for compliance.

I think you don't realize that you are in a hole and still digging! 
Stop digging and call for help... 
Show us something (or someone) in writing that supports your position!
I showed you mine.... show me yours!













On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


 

I did some research - went to the best sources I could find - didn't look to online forums for "experts" 

SO -  USCG HQ & NVDC don't count for credibility in your book - if you only go by "guys w/ guns" produce clarification from someone w/ a gun that's in the chain of command that supports your position instead of more arguing or justifying blah - blah - blah 
You've already stated how many VSCs you do and nobody is questioning your experience level - it is admirable - only an interpretation of one item... and one that in most likelihood would be considered minor and owners given a warning and asked to correct the deficiency.  
I have had many discussions w/ LEO's about marine enforcement and without exception they have stated they are not out there to write citations or create bad relationships - they are out there to help boater be safe and unless it is a real safety concern / violation they would not force boats off the water nor even write a citation.  They are generally very reasonable and use some common sense.
How many owners that you know of have been issued a citation and/or forced off the water for incorrect display of a Doc #?? (not registration # or name / home port deficiencies)

You mention "change or "clarification" in the USCG training, from the USCG Commandant or DIRAUX, or even CG-BSX (boating safety) of which I am a certified instructor for 18 years I will take note"

Can you point us to the Training Doc that specifies or clarifies where it is to be located?? 

Why the ridiculous comment about sock drawer... you are losing it!

And by the way I have been boarded in NY Hbr twice by "guys w/ guns" and they didn't jump aboard sequester the owner on deck and go searching
They politely asked to speak to the owner and asked several polite questions before sending us on our way without drama.

I am more than willing to learn, change my interpretation and retrain my VE's - just provide me with some concrete evidence / support and I'll even apologize for disagreeing 
I am open to learn when provided with info from knowledgeable sources...


 

Thomas
As to your "guys with guns" requirement - if you read the detailed attachment, I provided and included emails from the authorities, you would see that one of those should fit your requirement of "guys with guns" and also happens to be a lead instructor at the maritime law enforcement academy...  but I know you don't / won't believe him either right? but you can't or won't produce ANYONE else that you feel is credible to back you up?!  WHY IS THAT?

Taken directly from his email - no snippets or phrases out of context (I have added the bold to emphasize the pertinent points)

"John,
You are on point as is your USPS colleague.  The statement “
on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull” 
simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Neither the statutes nor the regulations speak to a particular compartment, but to an interior structural part of the hull. 
This phrase replaced the old “main beam” language as no vessel that is made of anything other than wood has a main beam. 

Vann
 PS – this from a guy that has boarded more than a few vessels over a 20+ year career as a federal boarding officer and a lead instructor at the Maritime Law Enforcement School/Academy.  Just sayin’.
        W. Vann Burgess
     Program Management & Operations Branch (CG-BSX-21)
     U. S. Coast Guard Boating Safety Division"


nduttonc30
 

What a shame.  With the most prolific 30 foot sailboat ever produced, THIS is what it has for a discussion forum?


sgalper2000
 

It would be nice if you folks could take this off-line.  I don’t think anyone cares any more.

 

Stan Galper

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2019 12:39 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas
As to your "guys with guns" requirement - if you read the detailed attachment, I provided and included emails from the authorities, you would see that one of those should fit your requirement of "guys with guns" and also happens to be a lead instructor at the maritime law enforcement academy...  but I know you don't / won't believe him either right? but you can't or won't produce ANYONE else that you feel is credible to back you up?!  WHY IS THAT?

Taken directly from his email - no snippets or phrases out of context (I have added the bold to emphasize the pertinent points)

"John,
You are on point as is your USPS colleague.  The statement “on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull” simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Neither the statutes nor the regulations speak to a particular compartment, but to an interior structural part of the hull. 
This phrase replaced the old “main beam” language as no vessel that is made of anything other than wood has a main beam. 

Vann
 PS – this from a guy that has boarded more than a few vessels over a 20+ year career as a federal boarding officer and a lead instructor at the Maritime Law Enforcement School/Academy.  Just sayin’.
        W. Vann Burgess
     Program Management & Operations Branch (CG-BSX-21)
     U. S. Coast Guard Boating Safety Division"


--
Stan Galper
1987 SRWK #4989
Port Charlotte, FL


KWKloeber
 

Buddies DanO and Neil,

Fact-
theres a nice feature on the IO forum controls, both online and in the email (if that’s how you receive posts) called “mute topic”.   So, if owners are not documented (their boats, that is ;-) , or don’t care to hear facts about the regs, it’s as easy as building a wall (ie, firewall - be it poured concrete, precast concrete, steel-slat, or poison-tipped spears) to opt out.

Look down this page
https://groups.io/static/help
for Muting and Following

As I say about I-77 drivers in NC, if you rubberneck the accident you can’t complain about the others backing up traffic 5 miles. 

-k

Opinion - caution long post, “delete” if not interested. 

If would be nicer, but currently unavailable, for IO groups to implement its BFB (bullshit filter button, currently in Beta testing) to automatically delete unsubstantiated BS vs facts, and/or other PPRB (personal prowess resume’ bulshit) that adds nothing to the FACTS regarding an important topic, and/personal-based attacks and/or snide remarks posted with the intent to flame (i.e., add passive aggressive remarks/posts to an important topic that began and should have remained fact-based.) 
The regs (has the potential to) affect every documented C30, so it would be nice to resolve their application in a calm, respectful, authoritative, and fact-based way (read into this “to bond or not to bond the grounding conductor”). Some have difficulty staying on a fact-based trajectory, which is ok because once stating their personal opinion and flames, they’re usually ”final word, done with this.”  Until of course, if presented with another inconvenient fact, posts the next personal attack and non-fact-based inflammatory or PPRBS remark, and then is ”done again.” And so on, and so on it goes. 

Neil as you have said (not in so many words) SHOW me the data.  Facts talk, the rest walks. 
--
kk


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 

Shhhhh be quiet . You really contributed there Dan thanks!!! Woo hoo.

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:30 AM -0500, "Daniel Oliver via Groups.Io" <danjazn@...> wrote:

Gee and there I thought you two would finally get along. Thanks again for allowing us all to read this enlightening back and worth....... are we at 80 responses or is it 95?........In other words, every one else say it, "shut the **** up!"

Dan



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Thomas J. Lynch" <t@...>
Date: 1/5/19 5:24 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

When your boat is stolen, or lost and now found by law enforxement or whomever - where are you or the owner to discuss

When the patrol boats board, especially with cause.  The operators or even captain or passangers are detained usually on deck.   Nobody is chatting it up having crumpets and coffee and saying "hey buddy the googlegroup guy said i can put the plaque thing in the engine compartment and here is a message from some guys in West Viginia in cubicles that says so. "

I chat it up all the time and am doing a Courtesy Vessel Inspection. And with no legal or law enforcement repercussions. 

I am advising what is needed or mussing so if and when they are stopped they know what the regular coasties or law enforcenent are looking for or will cite them for.

I have done the same for you multiple times here.

You want to argue.  That is fine.  You FAIL for the courtesy sticker and can go discuss with law enforcement or in court.

I am not getting an email or phone call while they are on your boat or later from the Secror Comnand asking why I checked and awarded a sticker for a boat that failed.....

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:32 AM -0500, "Bacchus" <dkloeber54@...> wrote:

Thomas

You make a BIG deal about searching....

"I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???"


Don't you have the vessel owner aboard?
How do you know where to look for MARPOL & Oil Discharge placards? How about signaling devices, etc

This not difficult stuff... 
When I do a VE owner points out where items are and I observe and check for compliance.

I think you don't realize that you are in a hole and still digging! 
Stop digging and call for help... 
Show us something (or someone) in writing that supports your position!
I showed you mine.... show me yours!













On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 11:18 PM "Thomas J. Lynch <t@... wrote:

Sounds great make sure they inspect your boat up there…..you are a FAIL here in CT, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, MD.  But we don’t know much about boating so I will defer to your expertise. <snicker>

 

The fact is the “engine” room is not CLEARLY obvious or visible as might any other  alternative location be acceptable?  Maybe the aft cabin or maybe put it in the v-berth or why not the anchor locker by your attempt to justify the engine room?…..I mean how many cabins or rooms or compartments is one supposed to search to determine where the damn number is???

 

So you can try to spin it anyway you want.  Hey maybe consider a job with CNN or the mainstream media clipping excerpts from people speeches or sound bites to “prove” your point.   In the end it’s the discretion of the inspector or the Coasties or Law Enforcement. 

 

As I said weeks ago, done and closed on the subject.   FAIL is still a FAIL.  If you have to ASK somebody where it is?  Is that clearly NOT clearly anything?

 

Sort of like your reasoning on this whole convoluted thread?  You are NOT right, did not win any prize or award except obtuse beyond a reasonable doubt.   😉

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 7:52 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas - others following this discussion....

I have received several "Gold / Silver Std" responses that IMHO confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt my interpretation of the location to meet the  Doc # "clearly visible" requirement.

In a nutshell the correct interpretation of “clearly visible”, confirmed by USPS and USCG, simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Further, an engine room, space lazarette or under a hatch are perfectly acceptable as long as the other requirements regarding size and “permanency” are met satisfactorily.    In my opinion, the “Clearly visible” requirement is intended to avoid confusion with the requirement for marking the duplicate HIN in an “unexposed location” which must be “hidden”.

If you have any written confirmation of your interpretation from similar credible (USCG HQ, NVDC...) sources, I would be interested.

The complete excerpts from the referenced Federal Requirements and the supporting correspondence from the various sources (USPS, USCG HQ, USCG NVDC) can be viewed by clicking on the Doc No. Marking Reqm'ts Tab @   Bacchus Nautical Links      or viewing the attached document.

Don Kloeber
Seneca Sail & Power Squadron

Americas Boating Club - Finger Lakes Chapter

VSC Chair

 


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 

I agree Stan! O was done with it weeks ago!! <wink>

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@... | +1 (631) 384-5791 |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com





On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 2:18 PM -0500, "sgalper2000" <sgalper@...> wrote:

It would be nice if you folks could take this off-line.  I don’t think anyone cares any more.

 

Stan Galper

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of Bacchus
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2019 12:39 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Thomas
As to your "guys with guns" requirement - if you read the detailed attachment, I provided and included emails from the authorities, you would see that one of those should fit your requirement of "guys with guns" and also happens to be a lead instructor at the maritime law enforcement academy...  but I know you don't / won't believe him either right? but you can't or won't produce ANYONE else that you feel is credible to back you up?!  WHY IS THAT?

Taken directly from his email - no snippets or phrases out of context (I have added the bold to emphasize the pertinent points)

"John,
You are on point as is your USPS colleague.  The statement “on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull” simply means you don’t have to remove something like a piece of machinery or wainscoting in order to clearly see the official number.  Neither the statutes nor the regulations speak to a particular compartment, but to an interior structural part of the hull. 
This phrase replaced the old “main beam” language as no vessel that is made of anything other than wood has a main beam. 

Vann
 PS – this from a guy that has boarded more than a few vessels over a 20+ year career as a federal boarding officer and a lead instructor at the Maritime Law Enforcement School/Academy.  Just sayin’.
        W. Vann Burgess
     Program Management & Operations Branch (CG-BSX-21)
     U. S. Coast Guard Boating Safety Division"


--
Stan Galper
1987 SRWK #4989
Port Charlotte, FL


Chris
 

Neil:  I agree with you.  This used to be a “users” group.  For some time now, one of us has decided to always get the last word in, argue with everything that is contributed, and mark his territory.  I am surprised he is not in the middle of this discussion/argument.

 

There are many “users” who have valuable information to contribute.  The last time I provided content, it was poo poo’d by suggesting it might not be truthful, and “one upped” with something different.  I.e. the responder had to have the last word.  My contribution might have been difficult to understand but it was dead on accurate.  I am turned off from contributing anything again.

 

It is no wonder “users” are leaving this group and moving to the facebook group.  I think we need an io group for all Catalinas and return it to a “users” group.  We need a moderator to keep things clean and polite, and without territorial behavior.

 

Chris

 

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of nduttonc30 via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2019 11:52 AM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

What a shame.  With the most prolific 30 foot sailboat ever produced, THIS is what it has for a discussion forum?




Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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KWKloeber
 

Stan

just a heads up, it’s also an option to ”opt into” only the topics you do want, rather than ”mute” topics you don't want to follow.  IO had built in those nice and handy choices for everyone/anyone to use. 

-k


sgalper2000
 

I didn’t want to opt out, because I thought the topic was interesting and informative.  It was the one-upmanship pissing contest that I thought was inappropriate.  Just sayin’.

 

Stan Galper

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of KWKloeber via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2019 3:36 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number - Location Confirmation

 

Stan

just a heads up, it’s also an option to ”opt into” only the topics you do want, rather than ”mute” topics you don't want to follow.  IO had built in those nice and handy choices for everyone/anyone to use. 

-k


--
Stan Galper
1987 SRWK #4989
Port Charlotte, FL