Topics

Location of USCG Official Number? #regulation


Chris
 

I am looking for ideas on how to meet the Coast Guard requirements of marking the boat with the
Official Number that is assigned when the vessel is documented.

 

Here is what the Coast Guard says:

 

Official Number: For all vessels, the official number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation “NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

 

The best idea I have so far is to engrave the numbers in a piece of hardwood and then epoxy that to the inside of the hull or a permanent part of the woodwork.  Part of the issue is that it must look good so the Admiral will approve it.  I.e. I can’t take a soldering iron and burn letters into the woodwork.  Actually, I think I could but I am not good enough to free-hand the characters and make it look good.

 

So, if you have an idea or have seen a nice installation of the Official Number, please advise.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 


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KWKloeber
 

Chris

It DOES NOT have to be visible to someone sitting in the salon. It has to be clearly visible e.g., w/o removing equipment or needing a borescope to find it.)  JFE, it could be on an engine stringer, or inside a cabinet or under a seat on the hull (a structural member,) etc., but it has to be “permanent” i.e., easily known to be changed or messed with (e.g., engraved into, painted onto, etc., and then clear-resin epoxied over so that messing with it would be seen.)

That said, at SBO there’s a nicely engraved s/s plaque advertised that you can mount to show off your HIN and it will set you back ONLY 100 boat bucks. 

BESIDES, save a lot of effort and some cash - CTY already met the CG requirements with a HIN it put below. Contact Warren @ CTY to get that location. 

On Dec 16, 2018, at 7:29 PM, Chris <acgc72018@...> wrote:

I am looking for ideas on how to meet the Coast Guard requirements of marking the boat with the
Official Number that is assigned when the vessel is documented.

 

Here is what the Coast Guard says:

 

Official Number: For all vessels, the official number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation “NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

 

The best idea I have so far is to engrave the numbers in a piece of hardwood and then epoxy that to the inside of the hull or a permanent part of the woodwork.  Part of the issue is that it must look good so the Admiral will approve it.  I.e. I can’t take a soldering iron and burn letters into the woodwork.  Actually, I think I could but I am not good enough to free-hand the characters and make it look good.

 

So, if you have an idea or have seen a nice installation of the Official Number, please advise.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 


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--
Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a '83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo Harbor NY
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark Twain


Clyde Thorington
 

I got the engraved plaque and it looks pretty nice.



Clyde Thorington
San Jose, CA







--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 12/16/18, KWKloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?
To: catalina30@groups.io
Date: Sunday, December 16, 2018, 5:27 PM

Chris
It DOES NOT have to be visible to
someone sitting in the salon. It has to be clearly visible
e.g., w/o removing equipment or needing a borescope to find
it.)  JFE, it could be on an engine
stringer, or inside a cabinet or under a seat on the
hull (a structural member,) etc., but it has to be
“permanent” i.e., easily known to be changed or messed
with (e.g., engraved into, painted onto, etc., and then
clear-resin epoxied over so that messing with it would be
seen.)
That said, at
SBO there’s a nicely engraved s/s plaque advertised that
you can mount to show off your HIN and it will set you back
ONLY 100 boat bucks. https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/documentation-placard-ad.193949/#post-1492814
BESIDES, save a lot of effort and
some cash - CTY already met the CG requirements with a HIN
it put below. Contact Warren @ CTY to get that
location. 
On Dec
16, 2018, at 7:29 PM, Chris <acgc72018@...>
wrote:

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#yiv2229179748 I am looking
for ideas on how to meet the Coast Guard requirements of
marking the boat with the
Official Number
that is assigned when the vessel is documented.
 Here is what the Coast Guard says:
 Official Number: For all vessels, the official
number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation
“NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at
least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural
part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed
so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious
and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull
area.  The best idea
I have so far is to engrave the numbers in a piece of
hardwood and then epoxy that to the inside of the hull or a
permanent part of the woodwork.  Part of the issue is that
it must look good so the Admiral will approve it.  I.e. I
can’t take a soldering iron and burn letters into the
woodwork.  Actually, I think I could but I am not good
enough to free-hand the characters and make it look
good.  So, if you
have an idea or have seen a nice installation of the
Official Number, please advise.
 Chris
   
   

Virus-free.
www.avast.com





--
Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a
'83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo
Harbor NY

Twenty years from now you'll be more
disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones
you did.
So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe
harbor. Catch the trade winds in your
sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark
Twain


Chris
 

I copied these words exactly from the Coast Guard letter than accompanied my certificate of documentation when I bought the boat.  It uses the words “clearly visible”. 

 

“Official Number: For all vessels, the official number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation “NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.”

 

I read the blog and found the discussion interesting.  Especially that a guy owned his boat 35 years and never had a coasty ask to see his official number.  Maybe that is why the previous owners of my boat got by without marking the boat to meet the USCG instructions.

 

I really like the SS placard but will piss and moan quite a bit before spending $100 on it.  However, it would save me much time and I could epoxy it to the hull in a way that it could not be easily removed.  The more I think about it, the SS placard would look much better than the one I planned to make.  If I were to do it myself, I would need a different router and a proper bit.  If I pay an engraver, I would likely spend more than the SS placard.  I think I won’t show it to the Admiral unless I am committed.  She will like it to quickly, and the $100 will be spent.

 

Thank ya’ll for your suggestions.

 

Chris

 

 

 


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KWKloeber
 

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 09:28 PM, Chris wrote:
I copied these words exactly from the Coast Guard l
Yes, the question is what is the definition "clearly visible."  It doesn't mean that it must be sighted from anywhere/everywhere inside the boat.  From both the vee AND the Q berth? When In the head? Clearly visible below when looking thru a window?  Port window or stbd window?  The engine compartment is acceptable. On the hull, under a seat storage cover is ok.  On the inside of the hull (NOT the hull liner) is OK.  Don't try to make it more difficult than the CG Aux folks doing inspections ever expect it to be (unless you WANT to spend money on fancily fabricated teak/stainless displays.) 

However, an engraved plaque is CLEARLY NOT ACCEPTABLE (it can be unscrewed/removed/replaced.)  A No. engraved into a teak board epoxied to a BULKHEAD is CLEARLY NOT ACCEPTABLE (the bulkhead can be removed/replaced.)

The No. MUST BE on a part of the HULL (read the IMPORTANT part of the requirement "Hull" -- so that it is PERMANENT and can't be changed/removed/replaced.  If you/Admiral figure out how to do a NICE way to display the No. on the HULL, visible sitting in the saloon (which NOT a requirement), and CAN'T be removed, replaced (say with a larger plaque covering the damage where the epoxy or 5200 has been ground off), or modified  -- let us know.

Understand that the requirement was intended primarily for commercial vessels (they typically use a welder and the lay a bead w/ the No. onto a structural member.)

The btm line if you WANT to do it to appease the Admiral, great. But there is no need or requirment to fancy up the saloon or vee or head anywhere else with a pretty "No." that doesnt meet the reqs anyway.
 
Ask a CG Aux inspector.

One mea culpa, the HIN I mentioned that CTY put inside is actually for another part of the CG regs (mfgr requirments for rec vessles) not the section discussed here.  That permanent number need be only 1/4" high, not 3" high.

--
Ken


Becki Kain
 

isn't it already on your hull?  

On Sunday, December 16, 2018, 7:30:00 PM EST, Chris <acgc72018@...> wrote:


I am looking for ideas on how to meet the Coast Guard requirements of marking the boat with the
Official Number that is assigned when the vessel is documented.

 

Here is what the Coast Guard says:

 

Official Number: For all vessels, the official number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation “NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

 

The best idea I have so far is to engrave the numbers in a piece of hardwood and then epoxy that to the inside of the hull or a permanent part of the woodwork.  Part of the issue is that it must look good so the Admiral will approve it.  I.e. I can’t take a soldering iron and burn letters into the woodwork.  Actually, I think I could but I am not good enough to free-hand the characters and make it look good.

 

So, if you have an idea or have seen a nice installation of the Official Number, please advise.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 


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James McMullen
 

My documentation number is engraved on a piece of teak and fastened to the vertical support post to the left of the lock side of the bathroom door. The board is approximately 3' long and looks good very visible and well done.
The admiral would approve!
Jim McMullen
Cat 30 srfk 
#4962

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 7:30 PM, Chris
<acgc72018@...> wrote:

I am looking for ideas on how to meet the Coast Guard requirements of marking the boat with the
Official Number that is assigned when the vessel is documented.

 

Here is what the Coast Guard says:

 

Official Number: For all vessels, the official number shown on the COD, preceded by the abbreviation “NO” must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3” high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull.  The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area.

 

The best idea I have so far is to engrave the numbers in a piece of hardwood and then epoxy that to the inside of the hull or a permanent part of the woodwork.  Part of the issue is that it must look good so the Admiral will approve it.  I.e. I can’t take a soldering iron and burn letters into the woodwork.  Actually, I think I could but I am not good enough to free-hand the characters and make it look good.

 

So, if you have an idea or have seen a nice installation of the Official Number, please advise.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


KWKloeber
 

<<The admiral would approve!>>

But the CG wouldn’t! 😳

So as I said who are y’all trying to satisfy / the regs??Or yourselves/Admirals?
--
Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a '83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo Harbor NY
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark Twain


Chris
 

Becki:

 

I think I am the fourth owner and the number has never been installed.  Please note this is not the HIN.  This is the permanent number issued by the Coast Guard when the boat is documented.  My interest is twofold.  I do want to comply with the requirements and I wish to make it a tiny bit easier to identify the boat if it should be stolen.

 

My current plans are to order the stainless steel plate with screw holes.  Screws will hold it in place while the epoxy sets.  Not positive where I will install it yet.  I do want it out in the open rather than hiding it.  I will epoxy it to a finished fiberglass surface that is not easily removed/replaced.  The liner should be just as good, if not better than the hull.  Since it is not removable, it pretty much is the hull.  I can’t imagine any coasty arguing over the liner vs the inside surface of the hull.

 

My initial reaction was not to spend that much.  Then I evaluated what I would spend to either have it made at an engraving/sign shop or if I made it myself.  After that thought process, the price looks better.  The stainless plate looks nicer than I would produce.  And, the Admiral does like the way it looks.  Of course, she would have been kind and also liked whatever I would have made.

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 


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Sonshingle
 

Check the size of letters required and I believe they need to be 3" high. I had the Power Squadron safety check our boat and got marked down because I did not have the numbers inscribed into the hull and the "O" was missing right after the "N". We had been boarded by the Coast Guard about a year earlier and they didn't say anything about the number issue. I guess it comes down to the crew doing the checking. That number is not a "safety issue" but rules are rules.

 
Dick Schmidt Punta Gorda, FL 1997 Catalina C30 #6404 M25XPAC Sea Rose



From: Chris <acgc72018@...>
To: catalina30@groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

Becki:
 
I think I am the fourth owner and the number has never been installed.  Please note this is not the HIN.  This is the permanent number issued by the Coast Guard when the boat is documented.  My interest is twofold.  I do want to comply with the requirements and I wish to make it a tiny bit easier to identify the boat if it should be stolen.
 
My current plans are to order the stainless steel plate with screw holes.  Screws will hold it in place while the epoxy sets.  Not positive where I will install it yet.  I do want it out in the open rather than hiding it.  I will epoxy it to a finished fiberglass surface that is not easily removed/replaced.  The liner should be just as good, if not better than the hull.  Since it is not removable, it pretty much is the hull.  I can’t imagine any coasty arguing over the liner vs the inside surface of the hull.
 
My initial reaction was not to spend that much.  Then I evaluated what I would spend to either have it made at an engraving/sign shop or if I made it myself.  After that thought process, the price looks better.  The stainless plate looks nicer than I would produce.  And, the Admiral does like the way it looks.  Of course, she would have been kind and also liked whatever I would have made.
 
Thanks to all for your suggestions.
 
Chris
 
 
 
 
 

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Tim Prouty
 

Chris,

Has anyone considered tucking the plate below and underneath the starboard port light and above the midships cabinet? Out of the way yet visible? Our boat is registered as well and I have yet to install the numbers plate. We are on an inland lake in Arizona.

Happy holidays,

Tim

1996 Nirvana #6374

TRBSWK

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sonshingle via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:54 AM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Check the size of letters required and I believe they need to be 3" high. I had the Power Squadron safety check our boat and got marked down because I did not have the numbers inscribed into the hull and the "O" was missing right after the "N". We had been boarded by the Coast Guard about a year earlier and they didn't say anything about the number issue. I guess it comes down to the crew doing the checking. That number is not a "safety issue" but rules are rules.

 

 

Dick Schmidt Punta Gorda, FL 1997 Catalina C30 #6404 M25XPAC Sea Rose

 


From: Chris <acgc72018@...>
To: catalina30@groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Becki:

 

I think I am the fourth owner and the number has never been installed.  Please note this is not the HIN.  This is the permanent number issued by the Coast Guard when the boat is documented.  My interest is twofold.  I do want to comply with the requirements and I wish to make it a tiny bit easier to identify the boat if it should be stolen.

 

My current plans are to order the stainless steel plate with screw holes.  Screws will hold it in place while the epoxy sets.  Not positive where I will install it yet.  I do want it out in the open rather than hiding it.  I will epoxy it to a finished fiberglass surface that is not easily removed/replaced.  The liner should be just as good, if not better than the hull.  Since it is not removable, it pretty much is the hull.  I can’t imagine any coasty arguing over the liner vs the inside surface of the hull.

 

My initial reaction was not to spend that much.  Then I evaluated what I would spend to either have it made at an engraving/sign shop or if I made it myself.  After that thought process, the price looks better.  The stainless plate looks nicer than I would produce.  And, the Admiral does like the way it looks.  Of course, she would have been kind and also liked whatever I would have made.

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

Image removed by sender.

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


Chris
 

Tim:  No one has suggested that location.  I think it boils down to personal preference as long as it meets the requirements. 

 

Chris

 


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KWKloeber
 

Tim

There’s like a dozen spots like that where it could be on a structural, non-removable substrate. Technically speaking tho (since folks are hell bent on using “visible” as criterion,) a plate should be not acceptable.  By hook or by crook, a plate can be removed and a 1” larger one be used to cover the damage.  It  just boils down to who does an inspection and does s/he really give a crap?  I’ve heard of a lot worse overlooked, and a lot more meaningless that gets nit picked in an inspection. I’d love to see published inspection guidance?

But what gives me a belly chuckle is owners who cite one part of the  reg because what they really want is show off the doc no. (not judging, none intended) but ignore the most important part (in the CG’s reasoning, anyway.)


On Dec 19, 2018, at 11:15 AM, Tim Prouty via Groups.Io <tim.prouty@...> wrote:

Chris,

Has anyone considered tucking the plate below and underneath the starboard port light and above the midships cabinet? Out of the way yet visible? Our boat is registered as well and I have yet to install the numbers plate. We are on an inland lake in Arizona.

Happy holidays,

Tim

1996 Nirvana #6374

TRBSWK

 

From: catalina30@groups.io [mailto:catalina30@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sonshingle via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 8:54 AM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Check the size of letters required and I believe they need to be 3" high. I had the Power Squadron safety check our boat and got marked down because I did not have the numbers inscribed into the hull and the "O" was missing right after the "N". We had been boarded by the Coast Guard about a year earlier and they didn't say anything about the number issue. I guess it comes down to the crew doing the checking. That number is not a "safety issue" but rules are rules.

 

 

Dick Schmidt Punta Gorda, FL 1997 Catalina C30 #6404 M25XPAC Sea Rose

 


From: Chris <acgc72018@...>
To: catalina30@groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Becki:

 

I think I am the fourth owner and the number has never been installed.  Please note this is not the HIN.  This is the permanent number issued by the Coast Guard when the boat is documented.  My interest is twofold.  I do want to comply with the requirements and I wish to make it a tiny bit easier to identify the boat if it should be stolen.

 

My current plans are to order the stainless steel plate with screw holes.  Screws will hold it in place while the epoxy sets.  Not positive where I will install it yet.  I do want it out in the open rather than hiding it.  I will epoxy it to a finished fiberglass surface that is not easily removed/replaced.  The liner should be just as good, if not better than the hull.  Since it is not removable, it pretty much is the hull.  I can’t imagine any coasty arguing over the liner vs the inside surface of the hull.

 

My initial reaction was not to spend that much.  Then I evaluated what I would spend to either have it made at an engraving/sign shop or if I made it myself.  After that thought process, the price looks better.  The stainless plate looks nicer than I would produce.  And, the Admiral does like the way it looks.  Of course, she would have been kind and also liked whatever I would have made.

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 


--
Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a '83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo Harbor NY
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark Twain


KWKloeber
 


Dick
 
Where was the "N. xxxxxx" located that you got a demerit?


got marked down because I did not have the numbers inscribed into the hull and the "O" was missing right after the "N".

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a '83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo Harbor NY
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark Twain


Chris
 

Ken:  I am glad you got a chuckle from this discussion because that was the main reason I brought it up.

 

The words that I listed were a direct and complete quote from a coast guard letter.  I did not pick and choose a part that pleased me.

 

By the way, there is no place on the boat that the official number could be placed where it could not be changed. With a grinder, epoxy, and fiberglass any place could be made to look like something other than where an official number was once placed.  It could easily look like a repaired area. If the number is carved or burned in wood, the wood can be replaced or covered. If a boat is stolen and not found quickly, the number will probably be removed or altered, and the boat will be never to be seen again.

 

I appreciate the various suggestions and now it is time for me to do what I choose, to do what pleases me, and to do what pleases the Admiral.

 

Chris

 

 

 


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George Goodall
 

Here is my two cents worth.  At least it was true when I purchased my 1986 Cat 30 ( circa 1990. )

The state of Florida requires the boat be registered with the state IF it remains in the state more than 90 days.  If you are "just visiting"  ( less than 90 days ) your home state registration is ok. Otherwise you must be registered with the state of Florida

IF you choose, you may also apply for Federal Documentation.  The reason I chose to document as well as register is because IF my boat were stolen AND then recovered in say Mexico or the Bahamas, These countries can not negotiate with the state of Florida.  ( only with the Feds ) for its return.

My document number is glassed in to the starboard  hull liner .  Its visible when the settee cushion is removed.

I understand that in some states, federal document is good enough and you do not require both.

I will take a picture when I can get on the boat.

On 12/19/2018 3:12 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken:  I am glad you got a chuckle from this discussion because that was the main reason I brought it up.

 

The words that I listed were a direct and complete quote from a coast guard letter.  I did not pick and choose a part that pleased me.

 

By the way, there is no place on the boat that the official number could be placed where it could not be changed. With a grinder, epoxy, and fiberglass any place could be made to look like something other than where an official number was once placed.  It could easily look like a repaired area. If the number is carved or burned in wood, the wood can be replaced or covered. If a boat is stolen and not found quickly, the number will probably be removed or altered, and the boat will be never to be seen again.

 

I appreciate the various suggestions and now it is time for me to do what I choose, to do what pleases me, and to do what pleases the Admiral.

 

Chris

 

 

 


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"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 
Edited

Its all about the $$$$$$$ 

 

I have always been documented, and pay the vig to the State to be “legal” but numbers are not allowed at the same time with a documented boat. The proper registered name and port of call is all that need to be display..

 

In NY they want you to sticker your boat (its all about the cash and also collecting sales tax EVERY time the boat is sold !!!  even if twice in one year????)  …….however I hate the numbers and stickers on my hull I spend hours buffing and WAXING <snicker> and NOT POLY-Glopping and so I throw the dumb sticker in the nav station and if they want to ticket me for not displaying that’s fine.   However in 14 years it never happened – maybe my USCG Aux burgee and VE Sticker and the USCG Facility sticker???   <wink>

 

Here is my number permanently attached and its removal will be noticeable and is not modifiable.   Since the USCG  wording is so ambiguous I had the folks at USCG Station Eaton Neck NY review it and they approved as satisfactory.

 

~ Thomas ~

 

Thomas J. Lynch |  T@...  |  +1 (631) 384-5791  |  www.L-Y-N-C-H.com

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of George Goodall
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 5:24 PM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Here is my two cents worth.  At least it was true when I purchased my 1986 Cat 30 ( circa 1990. )

The state of Florida requires the boat be registered with the state IF it remains in the state more than 90 days.  If you are "just visiting"  ( less than 90 days ) your home state registration is ok. Otherwise you must be registered with the state of Florida

IF you choose, you may also apply for Federal Documentation.  The reason I chose to document as well as register is because IF my boat were stolen AND then recovered in say Mexico or the Bahamas, These countries can not negotiate with the state of Florida.  ( only with the Feds ) for its return.

My document number is glassed in to the starboard  hull liner .  Its visible when the settee cushion is removed.

I understand that in some states, federal document is good enough and you do not require both.

I will take a picture when I can get on the boat.

On 12/19/2018 3:12 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken:  I am glad you got a chuckle from this discussion because that was the main reason I brought it up.

 

The words that I listed were a direct and complete quote from a coast guard letter.  I did not pick and choose a part that pleased me.

 

By the way, there is no place on the boat that the official number could be placed where it could not be changed. With a grinder, epoxy, and fiberglass any place could be made to look like something other than where an official number was once placed.  It could easily look like a repaired area. If the number is carved or burned in wood, the wood can be replaced or covered. If a boat is stolen and not found quickly, the number will probably be removed or altered, and the boat will be never to be seen again.

 

I appreciate the various suggestions and now it is time for me to do what I choose, to do what pleases me, and to do what pleases the Admiral.

 

Chris

 

 

 


"Thomas J. Lynch <t@...>
 
Edited

“marked down”?  I have not heard of this….maybe a local Power Squadron decision or concept?  In practice the PS and the USCGA should be inspecting and awarding these decals/stickers to the same criteria and metrics?

 

I VE about 100 plus boats (at 108 YTD 2018 so far)  in the NY waters every year, and ‘my’ (I am the Flotilla Staff Officer for Vessel Examiners) 11 other VEs do about another 550 (this year)

 

You can look up all the criteria here: http://wow.uscgaux.info/content.php?unit=v-dept&category=virtual-safety-check

 

AND you can do a virtual VSC here:  http://vdept.cgaux.org/vve/launch.htm

 

As to the State Registration numbers and in turn USCG Documentation these are the criteria for a Courtesy Vessel Examination (there is no threat of law enforcement or legal recourse for these inspections the results are centrally reported for statistical purposes but the actual boat id or reg numbers or personal data are NOT)

 

 

 

Item 1 - Display of Numbers:

The boat's registration number must be permanently attached to each side of the forward half of the boat They must be plain, vertical, block characters, not less than three (3) inches high, and in a color contrasting with the background. A space or hyphen must separate the letters from the numbers. Place State tax sticker according to State policy.

(e.g. FL 1234 AB or FL-1234-AB)

 Properly spaced numbers on the hull

Item 2 - Registration / Documentation:

Registration or Documentation papers must be on board and available. Documentation numbers must be permanently marked on a visible part of the interior structure. The documented boat's name and hailing port must be displayed on the exterior hull in letters not less than 4 inches in height. To be documented a boat must be 5 net tons or greater.

 

<TL – I highlighted red and bold the criteria>

 

~Thomas~

Thomas J. Lynch, FSO-VE

 

Dept. of Homeland Security

US Coast Guard Auxiliary

First District, Southern Region

Flotilla 22-06, Port Jefferson, NY

T@...

(631) 384-5791

 

       

Coast Guard Auxiliary Flotilla 2206 Website

 

From: catalina30@groups.io <catalina30@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sonshingle via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 10:54 AM
To: catalina30@groups.io
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Check the size of letters required and I believe they need to be 3" high. I had the Power Squadron safety check our boat and got marked down because I did not have the numbers inscribed into the hull and the "O" was missing right after the "N". We had been boarded by the Coast Guard about a year earlier and they didn't say anything about the number issue. I guess it comes down to the crew doing the checking. That number is not a "safety issue" but rules are rules.

 

 

Dick Schmidt Punta Gorda, FL 1997 Catalina C30 #6404 M25XPAC Sea Rose

 


From: Chris <acgc72018@...>
To: catalina30@groups.io
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2018 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?

 

Becki:

 

I think I am the fourth owner and the number has never been installed.  Please note this is not the HIN.  This is the permanent number issued by the Coast Guard when the boat is documented.  My interest is twofold.  I do want to comply with the requirements and I wish to make it a tiny bit easier to identify the boat if it should be stolen.

 

My current plans are to order the stainless steel plate with screw holes.  Screws will hold it in place while the epoxy sets.  Not positive where I will install it yet.  I do want it out in the open rather than hiding it.  I will epoxy it to a finished fiberglass surface that is not easily removed/replaced.  The liner should be just as good, if not better than the hull.  Since it is not removable, it pretty much is the hull.  I can’t imagine any coasty arguing over the liner vs the inside surface of the hull.

 

My initial reaction was not to spend that much.  Then I evaluated what I would spend to either have it made at an engraving/sign shop or if I made it myself.  After that thought process, the price looks better.  The stainless plate looks nicer than I would produce.  And, the Admiral does like the way it looks.  Of course, she would have been kind and also liked whatever I would have made.

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com

 


KWKloeber
 
Edited

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 05:23 PM, George Goodall wrote:

My document number is glassed in to the starboard  hull liner .  Its visible when the settee cushion is removed.

George's PO hit the nail on the head.  Inside a locker or under a cushion (likewise in an engine space) is acceptable -- as so is displaying it in plain sight in the saloon.
Like many regs, one needs to look at its totality, not focus on one or two words.   Also one has to sprinkle common sense into the interpretation (I know, it's difficult with any reg, no less a federal one.) 

Chris,

The comment about ignoring parts of the regs wasn't specific to any particular spot or method.  There are dock jockeys all over the internet who swear it has to be prominently displayed, yet screw it to a cabinet.  It's simply internet bullsh*t.

You may have missed a prior post. I never contested that your copy/paste wasn't correct.  I said the INTERPRETATION of "clearly visible" was too narrow.  It doesn't mean -- able to be sighted from every part of or any particular location in the vessel.  Why? Because the reg wasn't written for our tiny boats -- it must cover a 22-footer to a 1000-foot mega container ship.  There's good reason that the reg isn't more specific and state "visible from or at...."  This is where "in totality" and common sense interpretations apply  -- (think mega vessel here) should the reg state "visible" from... the bridge station? the head? the galley? the mess? from outside looking thru a port? the captain's berth?  the engine room? 
The reg couldn't possibly cover all the possibilities -- and it has to cover the widest interpretation (separate rooms, huge engine spaces), and not be narrowly interpreted to "fit" inside our 30-footers (with a virtually completely open interior.)  There's a whole 'nother perspective when one climbs out of our C30s.

I trust that large boat examples make it "clearly visible" that it's not intended as dock jockeys swear up and down that the # HAS to be displayed in the saloon.  Let them try telling that to a freighter Captain.

As for the remainder ("so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area") there are degrees of gray, but certainly, a plaque screwed to teak does not comply.  And on the other end certainly, George's example can't be removed without scarring the area (complies.)  But there are varying shades in between those two -- however, numerals epoxied over is pretty hard to change without "scarring the surrounding area."  Could someone apply a plaque OVER the scar? Sure, but if one was inspecting (to the letter of the reg) a plaque wouldn't comply because it could be covering a scarred area.  Or, it might be viable to pop an epoxied plate off its substrate and apply a new plaque.  NOTE the reg doesn't state absolutely, positively, that an alteration will be detected.  It states "obvious" and "some" -- it's not absolute for good reason.  So people read into and apply meaning to words as they want to, to make whatever point or argument they want to put forward.

"Clearly visible" for the Official #, is opposed to the 2nd HIN that the CG regs state must be hidden (as in underneath a fitting or fixed equipment.)  It does not comply to merely put the HIN behind a cabinet door. That, in a reverse sort of way, speaks to what "clearly visible" is intended to mean -- since behind an engine door is not "hidden," therefore inside that door is "visible" (or so an attorney would argue.)   If one accepts the "visible" argument, then "clearly" takes on a whole different perspective -- ie, not obscured, highly contrasting, engraved deep or raised enough to be easily discerned, not covered with dark, aged epoxy, not behind the genset in an engine room, etc.  Again, the reg couldn't cover all the possibilities. 

BTW, you also have to look at daffynitons - the CG defines "hull" to include internal structure below the main deck which provide both the flotation envelope and structural integrity of the vessel in its normal operations. So, if the liner is structural, it's part of the hull.   

Anyway, my point, not clearly made, is that it's a personal decision, not blamed on the CG in order to justify that the owner or captain or admiral wants to show off the # and prominently display it the inside their boat.

BTW the most recommended locations (if not wanting to prominently display it) in a small vessel (from inspectors posting on trawler, powerboat and sailboat forums --search, you can find them interspersed with the dock jockeys) -- is (epoxied over) on an engine stringer or inside a cubby.

 
--

Ken Kloeber
Pre-loved '84 C-30 ftrkbs mk-I HIN CTYN3573M84E w/a '83 M-25 s/n 411323
Lake Norman NC; Formerly Buffalo Harbor NY
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.   -Mark Twain


Clyde Thorington
 

I keep mine in same place George. Usually lot of stuff laying on top of it. My boat had Documentation when I bought it so just kept
it and don't have to put state stickers on hull. When and if I sold my boat someone said easier to finance if have documentation
rather then state stickers since history is traced through the feds?


Clyde Thorington
San Jose, CA


--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 12/19/18, George Goodall <georgeg305@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [catalina30] USCG Official Number?
To: catalina30@groups.io
Date: Wednesday, December 19, 2018, 2:23 PM


Here is my two cents worth.  At least it was true
when I
purchased my 1986 Cat 30 ( circa 1990. )


The state of Florida requires the boat be registered
with the
state IF it remains in the state more than 90 days. 
If you are
"just visiting"  ( less than 90 days ) your
home state
registration is ok. Otherwise you must be registered
with the
state of Florida


IF you choose, you may also apply for Federal
Documentation.  The
reason I chose to document as well as register is
because IF my
boat were stolen AND then recovered in say Mexico or
the Bahamas,
These countries can not negotiate with the state of
Florida.  (
only with the Feds ) for its return.


My document number is glassed in to the starboard 
hull liner . 
Its visible when the settee cushion is removed.
I understand that in some states, federal document is
good enough
and you do not require both.
I will take a picture when I can get on the boat.


On 12/19/2018
3:12 PM, Chris wrote:




Ken:  I am
glad you got a chuckle
from this discussion because that was the main
reason I
brought it up.
 
The words
that I listed were a direct
and complete quote from a coast guard letter. 
I did not
pick and choose a part that pleased
me.
 
By the way,
there is no place on the
boat that the official number could be placed
where it could
not be changed. With a grinder, epoxy, and
fiberglass any
place could be made to look like something other
than where
an official number was once placed.  It could
easily look
like a repaired area. If the number is carved or
burned in
wood, the wood can be replaced or covered. If a
boat is
stolen and not found quickly, the number will
probably be
removed or altered, and the boat will be never
to be seen
again.
 
I appreciate
the various suggestions
and now it is time for me to do what I choose,
to do what
pleases me, and to do what pleases the
Admiral.
 
Chris
 
 
 



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