Date   

IC-705 antenna switch from band

Mark Kyle
 

Hi Richard.
I have been looking at the CT-17 BT6 interface but not sure if it will do what I want..maybe you have another idea or even better something already done . I am setting up my 705 as a remote station. It will be done with the new Mac software that DL2YMR has made that uses the wifi in the 705 as the network link

I want to be able to change antennas via a remote switch at the remote site. so when on the HF bands I can be on a HF antenna and when on VHF to be on a VHF antenna and the same for UHF. Each will also have a linear amp on them for the correct band.
Others have said to use a combination of duplexers but that introduces too many losses. It would be better to use a relay based system. The relays of course only need to be small RF ones due to the 705 power

Regards
Mark  VK4KZK also VK4OI


IC-705 antenna switch from band data

Mark Kyle
 

Hi Richard

I have been looking at the CT-17-BT6 to see if I can get it switch relays per band using CI-V data.

I want to run my 705 remotely via some new Mac software that DL2YMR has released. When I am on a HF band I would like to have a HF antenna connected and when changing to VHF a specific VHF antenna connected via a relay and the same for UHF.

Do you have something that will do this easily...I see you are working on a router that may also be able to do this.
On each coax after the relay will probably be a linear amp so the switching relays dont need to be large they can be the small RF relays that are pcb mounted
Any ideas?

Regards

Mark Kyle


How can I hook up my 705 to a CI-V device?

VE2DX
 

The IC705 does not come with a CI-V port, thus many hams are stuck without any possibilities to control other radios or devices via CI-V.

The VE2DX CT17B-6BT is a CI-V with a Bluetooth interface, it was created to help hams isolate the Computer side of the shack from the RF side of the shack, with the arrival of the IC705 the Missing CI-V port was a problem, we were able to use the CT17B-6BT by creating a Bluetooth link between the IC705 and the CT17B-6BT thus creating 5 CI-V ports for the IC705 to control other ICOM Radios, ICOM or OEM CI-V compatible devices like antenna controllers, amps, etc...

Get more info at WWW.VE2DX.COM
--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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IC9700 CI-V reference Manual

VE2DX
 

Icom IC9700 CI-V reference manual
--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

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Interresting exchange on CI-V in 7300 Group

VE2DX
 

https://groups.io/g/ic-7300/topic/ci_v_command_for_rf_pwr/83976120?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,83976120
--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Interesting CI-V discussion in 705 group

VE2DX
 

https://groups.io/g/ic-705/topic/can_anyone_explain_how_the/83954375?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,83954375
--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
WWW.VE2DX.COM
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Large station CI-V Operations

VE2DX
 

When automating your ICOM Radio stations you will likely be using CI-V here are a couple of things to keep in mind when you do especially for larger multiple radio stations.

1- Collision, when you have multiple radios and other CI-V compatible devices all talking to each other on a single CI-V Bus you may (WILL!) encounter collisions.  In most cases other than a bit of latency you will not notice any issues.  But some devices especially the IC-PW1 (Note 1) are known to be affected in a major way by those.  

Split your CI-V Bus into radio oriented segments; if two radios DO NOT need to talk to one another, split them up using separate CT17B hubs or simply pull the JP1 from under your CT17B-10 Series (10, 11Usb or 12 Dual USB) to split it up into two distinct hubs, by doing this the two or three separate hubs can operate on there own.
   
2- DON't use Tranceive mode unless you need it, and you may need it to make certain your non-ICOM CI-V devices be able to sniff the data from the targeted device on the CI-V Bus. but if not disable it.
   
3- Some Non-ICOM devices send a data request on the CI-V Bus to the targeted device to get needed info to operate, like Frequencies, mode, or Band...  If your device does adjust the latency to keep those requests as spaced apart as possible.


----WARNING--- this last suggestion WILL add latency to your device and may have a negative or even damaging effect to your station, know you devices properly before doing this!


4- if your radio offers USB CI-V access USE IT, the trick here is to echo your CI-V data on the CABLED CI-V Port (Remote) to your other devices using the CT17B Hubs if needed. This does help in managing your CI-V traffic on your CI-V Hub.

5- Use proper Mono 1/8 cables on your bus, using Stereo cables may work for now, but IT WILL make you eat your lunch after adding other CI-V devices that don't support Stereo cables, I know I DID

6- USE Ferrite cores on all your CI-V cables, even if all VE2DX CT17B and IAB series devices are RF filtered, you NEVER have enough RF filtration.

7- Bring your CI-V speed up as high as possible, this will help manage latency. 

When running off ICOM Radio USB port (7300, 9700, 7610, etc...) that is probably 115.2k.
When running off USB rs232 port or USB-based devices like CT17Bs, that will vary according to your port configuration.

---NOTE--- Keep in mind if this is via a CT17B hub you WILL need to make certain ALL your radios and NON-Icom devices on the hub are running the same speed.
---NOTE--- Newer ICOM radios like 7300, 9700, 7610, etc... have separate CI-V speed configurations for the USB CI-V and the CABED CI-B(Remote) Port, if echoing the data, the speed conversion will be done by the radio! NICE! :D

8- Know how to properly configure your Control or logging software.  improperly configured software can and WILL cause you problems with connections, latency, and other issues. KNOW YOUR SOFTWARE!

Hope this helps

--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
WWW.VE2DX.COM
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Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

VE2DX
 
Edited

Sorry but for now my CT17B-6BT does not have an audio codec. :(

you could try to use a CSR type USB Bluetooth adapter, most of these (be careful... most!), support when used in Windows10 both data and audio links via Bluetooth.

thus you should be able to link your 705 to a Windows10 in both data (CI-V) and audio, but... sorry there is a but, the data speed will not be as high as usb, some application with panadapters like Win4Icom need high speed CI-V limks foe functions like these...

I hope this helps

--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

Michael Aust
 

Richard
   I know how to setup the IC-705 for WSJT-X
with a USB Cable between the IC-705 and a PC
and have done that before many times !

What I want to do is NOT use a USB cable and do it 
with Bluetooth ( No USB Cable ) BT for both Audio and Data 

Tried via the WLAN Server and no luck, apparently 
the RS-BA1v2 Utility when connected to the PC 
only allows one to use the Icom RS-BA1 software 
and Virtual Port fine but if you try to use the Icom
Virtual Port it does not want to share it for WSJT-X 
on a Windows 10 PC, even Com0Com will not
share a Pair with the Icom Virtual Com Port 

So the only other method is via Bluetooth to
link CI-V and Audio Incoming and Outgoing
to WSJT-X from the IC-705 Bluetooth BT 

That why I thought you might know about how to connect Bluetooth BT from a ICOM IC-705 to WSJT-X without
using The typical USB cable approach which seems to
generate RFI in the HF Bands 

Mike
WB6DJI


Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

VE2DX
 

OH! MAN! Dan! you're killing me! (Don't tell my XYL Guys!)

Like I responded to Mike below, this works fine in Windows, now I really don't know anything about the Pi Server you guys are using (Sry!) but, just like in windows you SHOULD (????) be able to access both the audio Codec and CI-V Data port...

Maybe there are users of that PI Server in the group (PLEASE! Jump in!!!)

send me reference data or links to that server I will be happy to into it (no promises!) at least this way the wife wont know about me not pushing sales more :P 

Warning Sales Pitch coming: guys drop by WWW.VE2DX.COM for more info on my stuff and also drop into the used and book section! See Moose (canadian version for DEER! Get it DEER... Moose!!!) I tried!

Dont have to be crazy to be a canuc but it helps!


--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

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Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

Daniel Tickell
 

Ironically I want to do the same thing but I do want to use a Raspi as a server :)


Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

VE2DX
 

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 02:16 PM, Michael Aust wrote:
WB6DJI 
Micheal The CT17B-6BT Bluetooth device will let you connect the 705 to a CI-V device by creating a Bluetooth CI-V link between the 705 and any external cabled CI-V device, in regards to what you are trying to do, you can easily do this via the 705 USB port, that supports both the DATA (CI-V) and Audio codec simultaneously that you need to do this...

I have done this many times using either 7300 and 9700, and the 705 works the same way.

I would LOVE to sell you my CT17B-6BT, but in this case, you really don't need it :(

If you need further help let us know or contact me via email I will be happy to help.

(Here Goes that sale :( the XYL will kill me!) :P
 
--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Re: Looking for an ICOM IC-705 for Bluetooth tests

Michael Aust
 

Richard VE2DX
 Have ICOM IC-705 here and trying to
get CI-V Data and Audio into WSJT-X FT8 
( Both Rx and Tx Audio streams in setup 
of WSJT-X ) 
Can you new unit do this or has anyone
tried this
Trying not not use RasPi Server but use PC
Notebook using WSJT-X
Mike WB6DJI 


Re: IC--PW1 CI-V collision bug

Dave AA6YQ
 

+ AA6YQ comments below

here is the "Official answer" from ICOM Canada.

"...Hi Richard,

Originally the CIV connection between PW1 and Icom Radios were designed for direct exclusive connection between each other only, not to a computer. Once a computer or multiple devices are incorporated into the mix, then missing or data collision errors/delays can occur in the CIV transfer. The CIV protocol is an older technology with few improvements and 9800 baud is the only recommended rate to be used. Using the USB port on the newer Icom radios (7600, 7300, 7610, 7850,7851, 705) eliminates the need for CIV to the computer, however the PW1 is still CIV only. The new PW2 will have provisions to have computer control via a LAN port or to other devices. Icom does not have info on this issue but I will include a couple of attached articles that I use from time to time ( not supported by Icom) which may help.

+ The fact that the PW-1 collision problem is implicitly blamed on the CI-V protocol being an older technology lowers the credibility of the above response to zero. The CI-V protocol works correctly; the cause of PW-1 collisions is that the PW-1 doesn't implement the collision detection and retransmission portion of the CI-V specification!

+ If I were a PW-1 owner, I'd await an official statement from Icom Japan (so that Icom engineers will have reviewed it) stating that if the two CI-V interfaces in recent Icom transceivers are configured (via menu option) to be separated, the transceiver can be connected to both a computer USB port that issues CI-V commands and the PW-1 (via a CT-17 or equivalent) without risk of damage to the PW-1.

+ The fact that it's been years since the first Icom transceiver with dual CI-V interfaces was released without such a statement from Icom Japan -- despite multiple requests -- is likely meaningful.

73,

Dave, AA6YQ


Re: IC--PW1 CI-V collision bug

VE2DX
 

Hello Gang,

here is the "Official answer" from ICOM Canada.

"...Hi Richard,

  Originally the CIV connection between PW1 and Icom Radios were designed for direct exclusive connection between each other only, not to a computer. Once a computer or multiple devices are incorporated into the mix, then missing or data collision errors/delays can occur in the CIV transfer. The CIV protocol is an older technology with few improvements and 9800 baud is the only recommended rate to be used. Using the USB port on the newer Icom radios (7600, 7300, 7610, 7850,7851, 705) eliminates the need for CIV to the computer, however the PW1 is still CIV only. The new PW2 will have provisions to have computer control via a LAN port or to other devices. Icom does not have info on this issue but I will include a couple of attached articles that I use from time to time ( not supported by Icom) which may help.

 

Albert Riopel VE7BYI

Icom Canada Service

604-952-4266
..."

Thanks to Albert for his prompt response, the files mentioned were uploaded in our Group file section.

--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

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Linking IC-705 to Cabled CI-V devices using Bluetooth

VE2DX
 
Edited

Hey, guys please find on this link the updated CT17B-6BT CI-C Bluetooth Hub user manual updated with the IC-705 configuration procedure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jofwi7jlcti4rhu/CT-17B-6BT%20Manual%20Vers1_02_00%20%281%29.pdf?dl=0

(corrected the lnk!)

73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Re: IC--PW1 CI-V collision bug

VE2DX
 
Edited

Just received some data from Dave AA6YQ, indicating that DXlab did have a software approach to this issue that I did not know of, this is great for DXLab users.

https://www.dxlabsuite.com/dxlabwiki/PW1Control

Also, it seems that the MicroHam Station Master has also addressed this issue, I will look into that but this is a bit expensive....  Mind you if you can afford an IC-PW1... :P

He also raises some caution at the approach with the IC-7300 and IC7610 approach that I brought up, and I fully agree, this should have been brought up in my original message, before doing this you should validate with ICOM, I have sent this concern to ICOM Canada Technical support and will publish here there response. 

Finally, Dave refers a  the K8UT reference documentation on this issue at http://www.k8ut.com/download/documents/Riding%20the%20CI-V%20Bus%20by%20K8UT.pdf 

Took a kick look at it and it does look very informative, will look further and give you my feedback, will also try to get more reference on this in further posts.

Thanks Dave for the GREAT info.

--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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IC--PW1 CI-V collision bug

VE2DX
 
Edited

If you are an IC-PW1 owner you are probably aware of the problems with running the IC-PW1 using CI-V. This is a very well known issue clearly documented by ICOM that says NOT to operate the ICOM IC-PW1 using CI-V unless directly linked to the RADIO and ONLY the RADIO, collisions from the radio or other devices or PC on the CI-V bus causing issues with IC=PW1 not to operate properly. Instead, it is strongly recommended to use the ACC1/ACC2 ports and the band data voltage to do so with ONLY the radio link on the CI-V buss...

(See attached image)

For years the only known fix was one of two options, use the ACC1/2 Band voltage cable with the CI-V only link between the radio and the IC-PW1 as strongly recommended by ICOM or use a SIMILI CI-V router (I say SIMILI here because it ain't a real ROUTER as such, it adds latency by absorbing the data and using RELAYS  turns ON/OFF the different CI-V links and echos the data...).

Well now with there is a solution; the newer radios like the 7300 and 7610 and possibly other more high-end radios can be used without these issues, if you control your radio via the USB port and ECHO the CI-V to the CI-V Physical port (REMOTE) then the radio becomes a True Router. This way your radio can still be control by an application on your PC via CI-V and the radio control can still be linked to the IC-PW1.

Mind you there is a limitation; This approach solves the PC application needs but not the having multiple ICOM or Non-ICOM devices on the CI-V bus, since you are still limited to a single ICOM IC-PW1 on the CI-V Buss, NO OTHER devices (ICOM or Non-ICOM) since these on the CI-V bus could STILL cause possible collisions and affect the IC-PW1.

Well, I have someone looking into a REAL CI-V Router, that would manage collisions, still in the sperm level at this point, not even any foreplay! But keep in touch here, in the Blog section of WWW.VE2DX.COM or on our www.facebook.com/ve2dx Facebook page to see where we are with that... But it won't be tomorrow morning... too many other things going on...

-- 
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Re: Problems with 705 and sharing CI-V data with other devices... SOLVED!

VE2DX
 

WELL! here it is FULLY operational! IT WORKS as per the book...

IC-705 talking CI-V to Steppir SDA-100 and IC756ProIII via Bluetooth link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaSu7hRV9Q&t=3s


:P


--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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Problems with 705 and sharing CI-V data with other devices... SOLVED!

VE2DX
 

Well we still have to do some work this week and some documentation....

but first indication are all will be 100% ok using 705 with other ICOM or NON-ICOM CI-V devices like ICOM Radios, Steppir, Band decoders, etc...

following series of tests this weekend we were able to establish a data link from the IC-705 to a Bluetooth version of our CT17Bs the CT17B-6BT.

AND IT WORKS FINE...

this week I will drill into the testing and then document the procedure!

No description available.

--
73
 
Richard VE2DX, Jesus Island, PQ-014

VE2DX ELECTRONIC 
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