Topics

New Member and a Question - UPDATE


Dave K1DJE
 

Discovered a "reducer" for the PVC pipe I'm using to mount the HF9V. Brings the 1 1/2 pipe down to 1 1/4, leaving only 1/4" gap around the top. Looks like small gravel will fill the bottom and hold it steady, with flexible kitchen cutting mats to shim the top.

The bad news: Have it all cleaned & ready to reassemble, but found that the directions make no sense to me. If I built this thing 30 + years ago, I've sure forgotten about it! Immediately ran into trouble with the 80/40M coils mounting to tubes B & B1. This is going to take a lot longer than I planned!!

Tnx All es 73
Dave - K1DJE


 

Dave,
Unless you have the original instructions packed with the antenna, you might have instructions for a different version.  In some versions the length of the tubes changed to comply with UPS shipping.
Perhaps if you could ask more specific questions, we might be able to reference the instructions and help you along.
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Dave K1DJE
 

Thanks for the reply, Al.

I have both electronic and paper manuals, but unsure about exactly where they came from. I may have purchased this used, and quite possibly semi-assembled at the time. I simply don't remember!

The parts list seems to match up with what I have, with no missing or "extra" parts for the HF9V.

Specifically, re the 80/40M coil, it says to measure up from the center of the insulator (between B and B1) 9 3/8" and mount the top of the 40M coil bracket to this measurement. The bracket on the 40M coil appears to be too long for this, as it bows out when I try to adjust it to that distance.

I've gone through the parts list and diagrams, thinking maybe I had the wrong coil somewhere, but the 80M (large) coil is at the bottom and the 40M coil (somewhat smaller) is above it. Tubes B and B1 appear to be correct as well as the insulator.

I'm at a loss as to what I'm missing, but suspect it's my fault and not the HF9V's!!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/5/2020 5:20 PM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
Unless you have the original instructions packed with the antenna, you might have instructions for a different version.  In some versions the length of the tubes changed to comply with UPS shipping.
Perhaps if you could ask more specific questions, we might be able to reference the instructions and help you along.
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Mark KB8SW
 

There are 3 versions of instructions to work from depending on the age of your antenna.

My version was manufactured circa 1985. Those instructions are black and white using hand drawn sketches as an assembly guide.

A second version has computer graphic “sketches” of the antenna assembly.

A third version is printed in color and has just about the BEST graphic sketches.

 

I had a similar problem when I assembled my antenna for the first time. I purchased my antenna used and it was partially assembled by the previous owner but wrong, based on my 1985 instructions which are somewhat different than the other 2 newer versions.

The older version makes no reference to the dimensions of the coils measured up or down from the insulator between tubes B and B1,

I just installed the 40m 80m assembly with the capacitor mounted in the center of the insulator between the 2 tubes.

After putting the whole thing together I used an antenna analyzer connected to the end of the 75 ohm resonator coax and just had to tweak the 2 coils a little.

If you want or need any photos of my installation I would be happy to send you some. Just email me at mjavit@...  I can also send you my 1983 instructions if you think your antenna is of the older version.

 

mark

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dave K1DJE via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 6:32 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io
Subject: Re: [butternut] New Member and a Question - UPDATE

 

Thanks for the reply, Al.

 

I have both electronic and paper manuals, but unsure about exactly where

they came from. I may have purchased this used, and quite possibly

semi-assembled at the time. I simply don't remember!

 

The parts list seems to match up with what I have, with no missing or

"extra" parts for the HF9V.

 

Specifically, re the 80/40M coil, it says to measure up from the center

of the insulator (between B and B1) 9 3/8" and mount the top of the 40M

coil bracket to this measurement. The bracket on the 40M coil appears to

be too long for this, as it bows out when I try to adjust it to that

distance.

 

I've gone through the parts list and diagrams, thinking maybe I had the

wrong coil somewhere, but the 80M (large) coil is at the bottom and the

40M coil (somewhat smaller) is above it. Tubes B and B1 appear to be

correct as well as the insulator.

 

I'm at a loss as to what I'm missing, but suspect it's my fault and not

the HF9V's!!

 

Tnx es 73

Dave - K1DJE

 

 

On 8/5/2020 5:20 PM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:

> Dave,

> Unless you have the original instructions packed with the antenna, you

> might have instructions for a different version.  In some versions the

> length of the tubes changed to comply with UPS shipping.

> Perhaps if you could ask more specific questions, we might be able to

> reference the instructions and help you along.

> --

> Al

> WB9UVJ

>

 

 

 


Dave KD7LRS
 

Hi Dave
I think you just need to recompress the coil, Check the instructions for the number of turns that is the critical thing.
Dave


Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:32 PM Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Al.

I have both electronic and paper manuals, but unsure about exactly where
they came from. I may have purchased this used, and quite possibly
semi-assembled at the time. I simply don't remember!

The parts list seems to match up with what I have, with no missing or
"extra" parts for the HF9V.

Specifically, re the 80/40M coil, it says to measure up from the center
of the insulator (between B and B1) 9 3/8" and mount the top of the 40M
coil bracket to this measurement. The bracket on the 40M coil appears to
be too long for this, as it bows out when I try to adjust it to that
distance.

I've gone through the parts list and diagrams, thinking maybe I had the
wrong coil somewhere, but the 80M (large) coil is at the bottom and the
40M coil (somewhat smaller) is above it. Tubes B and B1 appear to be
correct as well as the insulator.

I'm at a loss as to what I'm missing, but suspect it's my fault and not
the HF9V's!!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/5/2020 5:20 PM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
> Dave,
> Unless you have the original instructions packed with the antenna, you
> might have instructions for a different version.  In some versions the
> length of the tubes changed to comply with UPS shipping.
> Perhaps if you could ask more specific questions, we might be able to
> reference the instructions and help you along.
> --
> Al
> WB9UVJ
>




Nolan - KI5IO
 

Dave,

I've had two 'mature' HFxV antennas.  I rescued and rebuilt both (expanded them into HF9Vs) and am now working on my 3rd HF9V that my XYL let me order new from DX Engineering.

My 2nd HFxV started out as an HF6Vx.  I don't recall the details about the "x" designator, but (as an OM noted above) it might be related to pole size to fit within UPS shipping specs.

When I was rehabbing my 2nd Butternut Scott - AC8DE was able to help me identify precisely which model I had and it made life a tad simpler.  Scott might have the quick/down-dirty answer to ID which model your Butternut is.

As noted when it comes to tuning, etc. all is pretty much the same, but getting and ID on the pole section lengths drove me nuts until Scott ID'd which model and I was then able to get that manual and all the elements fell into order.

Good luck and enjoy the HFxV.
--

73  -  ki5io
Nolan Kienitz
Plano, TX


Nolan - KI5IO
 

Dave,

I found my old Manual & Parts list for what I finally determined was an HF6V-X.  Guides are dated from ~1999.

I've uploaded them to the files section here:   https://groups.io/g/Butternut/files/Butternut%20Manuals%20-%20Original%20Versions/HF6V-X  

Maybe this will help ID some parts for you.

I have a number of other "X" files on an old archive HDD I have that related to my testing and other add-on elements for the "X" series of Butternut Antennas.
--

73  -  ki5io
Nolan Kienitz
Plano, TX


 

Dave,
It sounds like you are concerned that the bracket is too big for the tubing at the point that you have measured for the 40M coil.  It is possible that the bracket is from some other part of the antenna or another antenna.  Every manual I have states that the measurement for the 40 M coil is 9-3/8" which puts it on the tubing B1 below where the trap bracket attaches from the 40M/80M capacitor assembly.  Can you take a picture of the 40 M coil on the antenna?
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Dave K1DJE
 

Thanks, Al! I placed 2 photos in the pix area of the group under "K1DJE...." - closeups of the 40 and 80-40 coils. You can see the center clamp in the middle of the insulator and the pencil mark for the 40M coil on the tube. The 40M coil clamp is at least 1 1/2 inches above that mark and the strap is pretty much straight. Compressing the tube to fit to the proper distance causes the strap to bow way out.

To try to answer a couple of other questions, the electronic file (.pdf) of the manual is dated 2009, so I obtained that quite a few years after I moved here to PA. I have had this antenna since at least 1997, either in Texas or Iowa.

This could very well be almost ANY model of Butternut, or even a combination of several that could have been added to before I ever got it. I don't recall buying it new, and that would have been a big expense for me back then. I likely bought it used from someone local (at the time!)

I'll take a look at the manuals someone stated they uploaded to the file area. I appreciate that effort!

I'll also try to contact AC8DE for help identifying this beast!

I thank all for their input!

73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/6/2020 11:52 AM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
It sounds like you are concerned that the bracket is too big for the tubing at the point that you have measured for the 40M coil.  It is possible that the bracket is from some other part of the antenna or another antenna.  Every manual I have states that the measurement for the 40 M coil is 9-3/8" which puts it on the tubing B1 below where the trap bracket attaches from the 40M/80M capacitor assembly.  Can you take a picture of the 40 M coil on the antenna?
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Steven AC2XM
 

On my HF9V, the strap attaches to the main tube with a separate clamp, and the coil can be compressed independently of the strap. I think you are missing a clamp for the strap.

Steve

On 8/6/20 2:02 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
Thanks, Al! I placed 2 photos in the pix area of the group under "K1DJE...." - closeups of the 40 and 80-40 coils. You can see the center clamp in the middle of the insulator and the pencil mark for the 40M coil on the tube. The 40M coil clamp is at least 1 1/2 inches above that mark and the strap is pretty much straight. Compressing the tube to fit to the proper distance causes the strap to bow way out.
To try to answer a couple of other questions, the electronic file (.pdf) of the manual is dated 2009, so I obtained that quite a few years after I moved here to PA. I have had this antenna since at least 1997, either in Texas or Iowa.
This could very well be almost ANY model of Butternut, or even a combination of several that could have been added to before I ever got it. I don't recall buying it new, and that would have been a big expense for me back then. I likely bought it used from someone local (at the time!)
I'll take a look at the manuals someone stated they uploaded to the file area. I appreciate that effort!
I'll also try to contact AC8DE for help identifying this beast!
I thank all for their input!
73
Dave - K1DJE
On 8/6/2020 11:52 AM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
It sounds like you are concerned that the bracket is too big for the tubing at the point that you have measured for the 40M coil.  It is possible that the bracket is from some other part of the antenna or another antenna.  Every manual I have states that the measurement for the 40 M coil is 9-3/8" which puts it on the tubing B1 below where the trap bracket attaches from the 40M/80M capacitor assembly.  Can you take a picture of the 40 M coil on the antenna?
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Steven AC2XM
 

I added a photo for you, showing the straps:

https://groups.io/g/Butternut/photo/168015/0?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

Steve
AC2XM

On 8/6/20 2:21 PM, Steven AC2XM via groups.io wrote:
On my HF9V, the strap attaches to the main tube with a separate clamp, and the coil can be compressed independently of the strap.  I think you are missing a clamp for the strap.
    Steve
On 8/6/20 2:02 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
Thanks, Al! I placed 2 photos in the pix area of the group under "K1DJE...." - closeups of the 40 and 80-40 coils. You can see the center clamp in the middle of the insulator and the pencil mark for the 40M coil on the tube. The 40M coil clamp is at least 1 1/2 inches above that mark and the strap is pretty much straight. Compressing the tube to fit to the proper distance causes the strap to bow way out.

To try to answer a couple of other questions, the electronic file (.pdf) of the manual is dated 2009, so I obtained that quite a few years after I moved here to PA. I have had this antenna since at least 1997, either in Texas or Iowa.

This could very well be almost ANY model of Butternut, or even a combination of several that could have been added to before I ever got it. I don't recall buying it new, and that would have been a big expense for me back then. I likely bought it used from someone local (at the time!)

I'll take a look at the manuals someone stated they uploaded to the file area. I appreciate that effort!

I'll also try to contact AC8DE for help identifying this beast!

I thank all for their input!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/6/2020 11:52 AM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
It sounds like you are concerned that the bracket is too big for the tubing at the point that you have measured for the 40M coil.  It is possible that the bracket is from some other part of the antenna or another antenna.  Every manual I have states that the measurement for the 40 M coil is 9-3/8" which puts it on the tubing B1 below where the trap bracket attaches from the 40M/80M capacitor assembly.  Can you take a picture of the 40 M coil on the antenna?
--
Al
WB9UVJ


Dave K1DJE
 

Bingo!! Thanks, Steve! That gets me moving again!
73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/6/2020 2:21 PM, Steven AC2XM wrote:
On my HF9V, the strap attaches to the main tube with a separate clamp, and the coil can be compressed independently of the strap.?? I think you are missing a clamp for the strap.
????????Steve
On 8/6/20 2:02 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
Thanks, Al! I placed 2 photos in the pix area of the group under "K1DJE...." - closeups of the 40 and 80-40 coils. You can see the center clamp in the middle of the insulator and the pencil mark for the 40M coil on the tube. The 40M coil clamp is at least 1 1/2 inches above that mark and the strap is pretty much straight. Compressing the tube to fit to the proper distance causes the strap to bow way out.

To try to answer a couple of other questions, the electronic file (.pdf) of the manual is dated 2009, so I obtained that quite a few years after I moved here to PA. I have had this antenna since at least 1997, either in Texas or Iowa.

This could very well be almost ANY model of Butternut, or even a combination of several that could have been added to before I ever got it. I don't recall buying it new, and that would have been a big expense for me back then. I likely bought it used from someone local (at the time!)

I'll take a look at the manuals someone stated they uploaded to the file area. I appreciate that effort!

I'll also try to contact AC8DE for help identifying this beast!

I thank all for their input!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/6/2020 11:52 AM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
It sounds like you are concerned that the bracket is too big for the tubing at the point that you have measured for the 40M coil.?? It is possible that the bracket is from some other part of the antenna or another antenna.?? Every manual I have states that the measurement for the 40 M coil is 9-3/8" which puts it on the tubing B1 below where the trap bracket attaches from the 40M/80M capacitor assembly.?? Can you take a picture of the 40 M coil on the antenna?
--
Al
WB9UVJ


 

Dave,
That clamp on the capacitor/trap strap can be any stainless hose clamp.  If you don't have any, you can pick them up from Amazon or any auto parts store.
Al

--
Al
WB9UVJ


Dave K1DJE
 

Thanks again, Al. Pretty sure I have all the parts that match the manual I have. The biggest problem I have seems to be hardware - The nut holding the screwdriver!

73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/6/2020 6:46 PM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
That clamp on the capacitor/trap strap can be any stainless hose clamp. If you don't have any, you can pick them up from Amazon or any auto parts store.
Al
--
Al
WB9UVJ


 

Dave,
I can fix almost anything, but I can't fix that.  More than 50 years working in TV/radio station maintenance and that was something I couldn't even fix in myself sometimes.  Thankfully, I never had to work on a tower.  My big rig was on the ground on the Bradley University campus or on Sears Tower.  I left tower work to the pros.
Al

--
Al
WB9UVJ


Dave K1DJE
 

I heard that! I get vertigo on high-pile carpet, so I stick with either ground-mount verticals or hire someone to go up on the roof.

73
Dave

On 8/6/2020 7:44 PM, Al WB9UVJ wrote:
Dave,
I can fix almost anything, but I can't fix that.?? More than 50 years working in TV/radio station maintenance and that was something I couldn't even fix in myself sometimes.?? Thankfully, I never had to work on a tower.?? My big rig was on the ground on the Bradley University campus or on Sears Tower.?? I left tower work to the pros.
Al
--
Al
WB9UVJ