Topics

HF9V Mods


Brent WB4X
 


-- I have an HF9V that I am rebuilding.  I also have two Hustler 6BTV antennas.  I was thinking about adapting one of the BTV antenna bases to the Butternut.  I just wonder if anyone here has experimented with doing something like this?
Charles  WB4X


Ryan AE0JX
 

Issue I usually see with that is the butternut is designed to have the feedpoint no more than 6-8 inches off the ground. That means that the mounting tube below the first insulator should be no more than 3 inches off the ground, ideally 2. You can use a pole mount but it has to be insulated from the upper section. Really the HF9V is a very lightweight vertical, I can easily bring it down by myself and using the mounting sleeve in the ground is super easy to either pull the whole thing out, or pull the mounting hardware from the first insulator and it will pull off.

If that is not what you meant disregard.

73
Ryan AE0JX

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:22 PM Brent WB4X <bsutphin@...> wrote:

-- I have an HF9V that I am rebuilding.  I also have two Hustler 6BTV antennas.  I was thinking about adapting one of the BTV antenna bases to the Butternut.  I just wonder if anyone here has experimented with doing something like this?
Charles  WB4X


Scott AC8DE
 

Ryan,

 

Very true and great advice.  Here's a tidbit for you.

 

Taking the A tube out of the mounting sleeve is actually harder than just pulling the top screw out of the insulator.  And since you have to remove the feed line to pull the antenna down, you've already removed the nuts and the base coil.  So what I recommend is just pulling the top screw out and leaving the A tube in the mounting sleeve.

 

And on that note, I've personally always used the hose clamp that holds A tube in the mounting sleeve to compress a strap that connects to the radial field.  So I never disturb the radial connection even when pulling the antenna down.  Looks like this:

https://groups.io/g/Butternut/photo/25953/15?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

And this, when it was first installed and nice and clean, before I made the final shunt coil:

https://groups.io/g/Butternut/photo/25953/29?p=Created,,,20,2,20,0

 

73,

Scott AC8DE

 

From: Butternut@groups.io On Behalf Of Ryan AE0JX
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 6:22 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io
Subject: Re: [butternut] HF9V Mods

 

Issue I usually see with that is the butternut is designed to have the feedpoint no more than 6-8 inches off the ground. That means that the mounting tube below the first insulator should be no more than 3 inches off the ground, ideally 2. You can use a pole mount but it has to be insulated from the upper section. Really the HF9V is a very lightweight vertical, I can easily bring it down by myself and using the mounting sleeve in the ground is super easy to either pull the whole thing out, or pull the mounting hardware from the first insulator and it will pull off.

 

If that is not what you meant disregard.

 

73

Ryan AE0JX

 

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:22 PM Brent WB4X <bsutphin@...> wrote:


-- I have an HF9V that I am rebuilding.  I also have two Hustler 6BTV antennas.  I was thinking about adapting one of the BTV antenna bases to the Butternut.  I just wonder if anyone here has experimented with doing something like this?
Charles  WB4X


Scott AC8DE
 

Brent,

 

Maybe what you mean is using the mounting pipe you used on a Hustler instead of sinking the A tube into the ground?  If that is the case, there is a way, albeit kind of a pain.

 

73,

Scott AC8DE

 

From: Butternut@groups.io On Behalf Of Brent WB4X
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 3:22 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io
Subject: [butternut] HF9V Mods

 


-- I have an HF9V that I am rebuilding.  I also have two Hustler 6BTV antennas.  I was thinking about adapting one of the BTV antenna bases to the Butternut.  I just wonder if anyone here has experimented with doing something like this?
Charles  WB4X


 

Charles,
I have thought about that tilt over mount as well but I have a few reservations.  The base coil would be hard to mount where it will not get into trouble with the other base hardware.  Also, I never have really liked the insulator at the top of that mount.  It just screams "I am broken" to me.  I don't have any real experience it just looks like a good failure point to me.  As Scott has pointed out, one screw and a lift will bring the whole antenna down.  I work on my picnic table with the the 80/40/30 coils over the edge of one side and the rest of the antenna across the table and hanging over the other side.  When I do clean and wipe down the antenna, I use a Sharpie to mark where brackets and insulators were attached before I take it apart.  Having the antenna over a table also allows you to sight down the antenna from the base or top to look for bends, and position of the various elements.

--
Al
WB9UVJ


Artie KD0GY
 

I've been quite pleased with the MFJ tilt over mount I use on my HF6. I use a plastic saw horse placed in a safe spot, so the antenna does not go all the way down, but is still accessible.

Artie KD0GY


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 4:53 PM Al WB9UVJ <markaren1@...> wrote:
Charles,
I have thought about that tilt over mount as well but I have a few reservations.  The base coil would be hard to mount where it will not get into trouble with the other base hardware.  Also, I never have really liked the insulator at the top of that mount.  It just screams "I am broken" to me.  I don't have any real experience it just looks like a good failure point to me.  As Scott has pointed out, one screw and a lift will bring the whole antenna down.  I work on my picnic table with the the 80/40/30 coils over the edge of one side and the rest of the antenna across the table and hanging over the other side.  When I do clean and wipe down the antenna, I use a Sharpie to mark where brackets and insulators were attached before I take it apart.  Having the antenna over a table also allows you to sight down the antenna from the base or top to look for bends, and position of the various elements.

--
Al
WB9UVJ


Scott AC8DE
 

Artie,

 

Thanks for the feedback on the MFJ-1903 tilt base.  If one feels they must us a tilt base, this particular base appears to be a decent candidate to be used with the Butternut antennas (without insulators added) due to the fact you can cut off the A tube and get the feed point closer to the ground than you can with the DX Engineering version.  Not close to the build quality of the DX version, but allows for the feed point lowering and use with a modified A tube.  It still will not allow you to get your feed point down close to the ground which is important for overall performance and tuning.  You may be able to get it within 12 inches of the ground plane, but without seeing drawings or having the unit in my hands, that is a guess.

 

But as stated many times, a HF*V antenna is so light with all it's mass near the bottom, that it is VERY easy to lay it down and raise it back up solo by just removing the feedline and pulling the feed point screw.  Even in a strong wind!  It's a two-minute operation maximum.  A tilt base is superfluous on a Butternut vertical.

 

But I do want to make sure I again stress that the performance of the Butternut HF6V and HF9V antennas relies upon the feed point being close to the ground.  The higher you raise it, the more "wonky" 10M becomes and experience has shown the not having 10M tuned correctly throws the antennas performance.  A higher feed point can be somewhat "offset" by a higher radial count with 30'+ long radials, but only to a point.

 

You can find research data on tuning and feed point height in the files area.

 

All that said, many people report getting great performance on fence rails 4' off the ground and no radials.  Fair enough.  But it's not near the performance one gets properly mounted on a large bed of radials.  I've installed dozens of Butternuts in all kinds of situations and know this to be true from experience and measurement.  You just can win against old man physics.  He'll get you every single time.

 

73,

Scott AC8DE

 

From: Butternut@groups.io On Behalf Of Artie KD0GY
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 6:32 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io
Subject: Re: [butternut] HF9V Mods

 

I've been quite pleased with the MFJ tilt over mount I use on my HF6. I use a plastic saw horse placed in a safe spot, so the antenna does not go all the way down, but is still accessible.

 

Artie KD0GY

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 4:53 PM Al WB9UVJ <markaren1@...> wrote:

Charles,
I have thought about that tilt over mount as well but I have a few reservations.  The base coil would be hard to mount where it will not get into trouble with the other base hardware.  Also, I never have really liked the insulator at the top of that mount.  It just screams "I am broken" to me.  I don't have any real experience it just looks like a good failure point to me.  As Scott has pointed out, one screw and a lift will bring the whole antenna down.  I work on my picnic table with the the 80/40/30 coils over the edge of one side and the rest of the antenna across the table and hanging over the other side.  When I do clean and wipe down the antenna, I use a Sharpie to mark where brackets and insulators were attached before I take it apart.  Having the antenna over a table also allows you to sight down the antenna from the base or top to look for bends, and position of the various elements.

--
Al
WB9UVJ