Topics

Attaching The radials to my HF9V


Dave K1DJE
 

Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod, less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan to anchor with lawn staples.

My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.

My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE


Craig KC2BK
 

I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and have 2 copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire connecting the ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections to the antenna. It works like a champ.......


On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:


Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod, less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan to anchor with lawn staples.

My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.

My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE


Steven AC2XM
 

It sounds like it could be tricky to get all the wires in place with just a single clamp, but I guess it depends on how many radials you are planning for.

I ultimately wound up putting down 60 radials, using the DX Engineering base plate. That is an expensive solution, but having a separate bolt for each wire made it easy to hook everything up.

I used copper wire, because I wanted to be able to solder and crimp the lugs to the end of the wire. If I were to use aluminum, I'd probably get some "split bolt" connectors from an electrical parts place, and use them to bundle and connect the wires. Here is the sort of part I'm trying to describe: https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-90418-Connector-Conductors/dp/B005GDFSAI

I'm not recommending that particular part - I just used it as an example, since lots of folks don't know what a "split bolt" is. Electricians often call them "bugs".

Steve

On 8/11/20 3:46 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod, less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan to anchor with lawn staples.
My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE


Dave K1DJE
 

Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I like the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io wrote:
I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and have 2 copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire connecting the ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections to the antenna. It works like a champ.......
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod, less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan to anchor with lawn staples.
My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE


Charles NQ7Z
 

I use two of these on rooftop install and only have to service every 60 days just retighten.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 1:44:28 PM MST, Steven AC2XM <stevenfalco@...> wrote:


It sounds like it could be tricky to get all the wires in place with just a single clamp, but I guess it depends on how many radials you are planning for.

I ultimately wound up putting down 60 radials, using the DX Engineering base plate.  That is an expensive solution, but having a separate bolt for each wire made it easy to hook everything up.

I used copper wire, because I wanted to be able to solder and crimp the lugs to the end of the wire.  If I were to use aluminum, I'd probably get some "split bolt" connectors from an electrical parts place, and use them to bundle and connect the wires.  Here is the sort of part I'm trying to describe:  https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-90418-Connector-Conductors/dp/B005GDFSAI

I'm not recommending that particular part - I just used it as an example, since lots of folks don't know what a "split bolt" is.  Electricians often call them "bugs".

    Steve


On 8/11/20 3:46 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
> Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod, less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan to anchor with lawn staples.
>
> My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>
> My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>
> Tnx es 73
> Dave - K1DJE
>





Craig KC2BK
 


Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje@...> wrote:


Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I like
the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io wrote:
> I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
> copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and have 2
> copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
> antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire connecting the
> ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections to the
> antenna. It works like a champ.......
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io
> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
>
> Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is
> to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod,
> less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
> electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan
> to anchor with lawn staples.
>
> My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the
> HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with
> the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>
> My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>
> Tnx es 73
> Dave - K1DJE
>




Jim Strohm
 

The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both ground-mounted and elevated radials.

Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.

I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q" coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?

73
Jim N6OTQ

PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for a long time, longer story.


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I like
the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io wrote:
> I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
> copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and have 2
> copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
> antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire connecting the
> ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections to the
> antenna. It works like a champ.......
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via groups.io
> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
>
> Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next step is
> to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground rod,
> less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
> electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that I plan
> to anchor with lawn staples.
>
> My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base of the
> HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the antenna, with
> the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>
> My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>
> Tnx es 73
> Dave - K1DJE
>




Dave K1DJE
 

Thanks, Steve! That split bolt sounds like just what I need! I have a large electrical ground clamp, but it's not really designed for what I want it to do. I have two "bugs" on my shack desk, may as well have one outside, too!

The main problem I have with radials is that I only have 90 degrees to work with. The antenna is in a corner of the back yard that is surrounded by deep undergrowth. Picture an "L" shape with the antenna in the lower left corner of the L. I'll be able to get to the hidden areas after the foliage dies in the fall, but for now the vertical will have to be a bit directional!

Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/11/2020 4:44 PM, Steven AC2XM wrote:
It sounds like it could be tricky to get all the wires in place with just a single clamp, but I guess it depends on how many radials you are planning for.
I ultimately wound up putting down 60 radials, using the DX Engineering base plate.  That is an expensive solution, but having a separate bolt for each wire made it easy to hook everything up.
I used copper wire, because I wanted to be able to solder and crimp the lugs to the end of the wire.  If I were to use aluminum, I'd probably get some "split bolt" connectors from an electrical parts place, and use them to bundle and connect the wires.  Here is the sort of part I'm trying to describe: https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-90418-Connector-Conductors/dp/B005GDFSAI I'm not recommending that particular part - I just used it as an example, since lots of folks don't know what a "split bolt" is. Electricians often call them "bugs".
    Steve


Dave K1DJE
 

Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE

On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both ground-mounted and elevated radials.
Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q" coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
73
Jim N6OTQ
PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for a long time, longer story.
On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io> <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io
<mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
like
the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE
On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
wrote:
> I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
> copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
have 2
> copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
> antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
connecting the
> ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
to the
> antenna. It works like a champ.......
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
groups.io <http://groups.io>
> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
> Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
step is
> to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
rod,
> less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
> electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
I plan
> to anchor with lawn staples.
>
> My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
of the
> HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
antenna, with
> the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>
> My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>
> Tnx es 73
> Dave - K1DJE
>


Peter VA3PET
 

What your suggesting could work, you'll have to be careful that the wire doesn't coil when you're hooking it under the loose hose clamp.

Here's what I did (Cheap)
I got a piece of aluminum scrap plate  from our local metal recyclers. I used a hole saw to make a hole big enough so that tube "A" would easily fit through it. I then drilled and tapped two dozen or so 1/4-20 thread holes around the edge of the plate. I then put the plate over tube "A". Next I connected the plate to my ground rod and grounded my antenna to the plate. I used stainless steel screws and SS washers to connect my aluminum fence write radials the plate. I used Penatrox on every electrical connection.


73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:45:23 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price
tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and
the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered
blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
> The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both
> ground-mounted and elevated radials.
>
> Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as
> close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
>
> I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how
> about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q"
> coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it
> can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
> PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for
> a long time, longer story.
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <cerhorn@...
> <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
>     a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
>     down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
>
>     On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje@...
>     <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
>     like
>     the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
>     that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
>     aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
>
>     Tnx es 73
>     Dave - K1DJE
>
>     On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
>     wrote:
>      > I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
>      > copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
>     have 2
>      > copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
>      > antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
>     connecting the
>      > ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
>     to the
>      > antenna. It works like a champ.......
>      >
>      >
>      > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io>
>      > <k1dje@... <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
>     step is
>      > to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
>     rod,
>      > less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
>      > electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
>     I plan
>      > to anchor with lawn staples.
>      >
>      > My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
>     of the
>      > HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
>     antenna, with
>      > the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>      >
>      > My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>      >
>      > Tnx es 73
>      > Dave - K1DJE
>      >
>
>
>
>




Jim Strohm
 

Pete,

That's an excellent solution for those of us who have the time, tools, and materials to duplicate your answer.

I'd note -- through-bolts and nuts to secure the ground wires is a better answer than threaded holes in your ground plate, but cost more.  Reliability?  If your ground plate is thick enough to accept 4 threads' worth of your attachment bolts, then threaded holes may be cheaper than nuts and bolts on a thinner plate.  Remember to use Noalox or another corrosion resistant compound.  Cost-wise, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) -- it's worth analyzing.

I will note -- I have a DXE plate for elevated radials using thru-bolts and nuts to secure the radial wires.  It's a PITA to attach the wires with bolts and nuts, and I'm looking for a good answer to catch the hardware that falls to the ground.

Also I am needing to make a structure so I can work on the ground wire attachments as well as tune the antenna.  Kind of a children's sky fort.

73
Jim N6OTQ


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:00 PM Peter VA3PET <peteretyrrell@...> wrote:
What your suggesting could work, you'll have to be careful that the wire doesn't coil when you're hooking it under the loose hose clamp.

Here's what I did (Cheap)
I got a piece of aluminum scrap plate  from our local metal recyclers. I used a hole saw to make a hole big enough so that tube "A" would easily fit through it. I then drilled and tapped two dozen or so 1/4-20 thread holes around the edge of the plate. I then put the plate over tube "A". Next I connected the plate to my ground rod and grounded my antenna to the plate. I used stainless steel screws and SS washers to connect my aluminum fence write radials the plate. I used Penatrox on every electrical connection.


73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:45:23 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price
tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and
the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered
blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
> The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both
> ground-mounted and elevated radials.
>
> Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as
> close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
>
> I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how
> about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q"
> coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it
> can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
> PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for
> a long time, longer story.
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io
> <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
>     a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
>     down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
>
>     On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io
>     <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
>     like
>     the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
>     that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
>     aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
>
>     Tnx es 73
>     Dave - K1DJE
>
>     On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
>     wrote:
>      > I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
>      > copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
>     have 2
>      > copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
>      > antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
>     connecting the
>      > ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
>     to the
>      > antenna. It works like a champ.......
>      >
>      >
>      > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io>
>      > <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
>     step is
>      > to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
>     rod,
>      > less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
>      > electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
>     I plan
>      > to anchor with lawn staples.
>      >
>      > My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
>     of the
>      > HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
>     antenna, with
>      > the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>      >
>      > My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>      >
>      > Tnx es 73
>      > Dave - K1DJE
>      >
>
>
>
>




tony stokes
 

2 or 3 feet of  stranded #4 or #6 attached to 2 ea 4-6 ft ground rods in a 5 or 6 inch circle around the base.  Attach the radials with copper split bolts sixed to fit the wires.  Voila!


Peter VA3PET
 

Jim,

My plate is 3/8 thick. It was easy to screw the stainless screws into the plate and then wrap the radial around the screw and tighten it. I put two wires under each screw with a washer to clamp over each wire;  having to fiddle with nuts would have been a PITA.

After drilling the #7 (or there about) holes into the aluminum,  I chucked a 1/4-20 tap into the chuck of my rechargeable drill and used it to tap the holes. You need to be careful and rotate the tap backwards occasionally to stop it binding. WD-40 is a good lube.

As far as tools, a reversible drill, the correct size drill bit and a 1/4-20 tap. And time, maybe an hour or so.

Anyway, I did the above. There is no way I could afford dx- engineering's ground plate and what I did is, electrically, every bit as good.  The biggest cost was for the SS hardware.

73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Strohm <jim.strohm@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 8:22:51 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Pete,

That's an excellent solution for those of us who have the time, tools, and materials to duplicate your answer.

I'd note -- through-bolts and nuts to secure the ground wires is a better answer than threaded holes in your ground plate, but cost more.  Reliability?  If your ground plate is thick enough to accept 4 threads' worth of your attachment bolts, then threaded holes may be cheaper than nuts and bolts on a thinner plate.  Remember to use Noalox or another corrosion resistant compound.  Cost-wise, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) -- it's worth analyzing.

I will note -- I have a DXE plate for elevated radials using thru-bolts and nuts to secure the radial wires.  It's a PITA to attach the wires with bolts and nuts, and I'm looking for a good answer to catch the hardware that falls to the ground.

Also I am needing to make a structure so I can work on the ground wire attachments as well as tune the antenna.  Kind of a children's sky fort.

73
Jim N6OTQ

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:00 PM Peter VA3PET <peteretyrrell@...> wrote:
What your suggesting could work, you'll have to be careful that the wire doesn't coil when you're hooking it under the loose hose clamp.

Here's what I did (Cheap)
I got a piece of aluminum scrap plate  from our local metal recyclers. I used a hole saw to make a hole big enough so that tube "A" would easily fit through it. I then drilled and tapped two dozen or so 1/4-20 thread holes around the edge of the plate. I then put the plate over tube "A". Next I connected the plate to my ground rod and grounded my antenna to the plate. I used stainless steel screws and SS washers to connect my aluminum fence write radials the plate. I used Penatrox on every electrical connection.


73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:45:23 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price
tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and
the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered
blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
> The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both
> ground-mounted and elevated radials.
>
> Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as
> close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
>
> I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how
> about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q"
> coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it
> can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
> PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for
> a long time, longer story.
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io
> <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
>     a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
>     down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
>
>     On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io
>     <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
>     like
>     the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
>     that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
>     aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
>
>     Tnx es 73
>     Dave - K1DJE
>
>     On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
>     wrote:
>      > I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
>      > copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
>     have 2
>      > copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
>      > antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
>     connecting the
>      > ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
>     to the
>      > antenna. It works like a champ.......
>      >
>      >
>      > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io>
>      > <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
>     step is
>      > to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
>     rod,
>      > less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
>      > electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
>     I plan
>      > to anchor with lawn staples.
>      >
>      > My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
>     of the
>      > HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
>     antenna, with
>      > the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>      >
>      > My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>      >
>      > Tnx es 73
>      > Dave - K1DJE
>      >
>
>
>
>




Siegfried Jackstien
 

use crimp on connectors and maybe additionally solder them ... do not wrap the wire arount the bolt

dg9bfc sigi

Am 12.08.2020 um 00:42 schrieb Peter VA3PET:

Jim,

My plate is 3/8 thick. It was easy to screw the stainless screws into the plate and then wrap the radial around the screw and tighten it. I put two wires under each screw with a washer to clamp over each wire;  having to fiddle with nuts would have been a PITA.

After drilling the #7 (or there about) holes into the aluminum,  I chucked a 1/4-20 tap into the chuck of my rechargeable drill and used it to tap the holes. You need to be careful and rotate the tap backwards occasionally to stop it binding. WD-40 is a good lube.

As far as tools, a reversible drill, the correct size drill bit and a 1/4-20 tap. And time, maybe an hour or so.

Anyway, I did the above. There is no way I could afford dx- engineering's ground plate and what I did is, electrically, every bit as good.  The biggest cost was for the SS hardware.

73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Strohm <jim.strohm@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 8:22:51 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Pete,

That's an excellent solution for those of us who have the time, tools, and materials to duplicate your answer.

I'd note -- through-bolts and nuts to secure the ground wires is a better answer than threaded holes in your ground plate, but cost more.  Reliability?  If your ground plate is thick enough to accept 4 threads' worth of your attachment bolts, then threaded holes may be cheaper than nuts and bolts on a thinner plate.  Remember to use Noalox or another corrosion resistant compound.  Cost-wise, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) -- it's worth analyzing.

I will note -- I have a DXE plate for elevated radials using thru-bolts and nuts to secure the radial wires.  It's a PITA to attach the wires with bolts and nuts, and I'm looking for a good answer to catch the hardware that falls to the ground.

Also I am needing to make a structure so I can work on the ground wire attachments as well as tune the antenna.  Kind of a children's sky fort.

73
Jim N6OTQ

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:00 PM Peter VA3PET <peteretyrrell@...> wrote:
What your suggesting could work, you'll have to be careful that the wire doesn't coil when you're hooking it under the loose hose clamp.

Here's what I did (Cheap)
I got a piece of aluminum scrap plate  from our local metal recyclers. I used a hole saw to make a hole big enough so that tube "A" would easily fit through it. I then drilled and tapped two dozen or so 1/4-20 thread holes around the edge of the plate. I then put the plate over tube "A". Next I connected the plate to my ground rod and grounded my antenna to the plate. I used stainless steel screws and SS washers to connect my aluminum fence write radials the plate. I used Penatrox on every electrical connection.


73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:45:23 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price
tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and
the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered
blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
> The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both
> ground-mounted and elevated radials.
>
> Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as
> close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
>
> I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how
> about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q"
> coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it
> can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
> PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for
> a long time, longer story.
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io
> <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
>     a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
>     down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
>
>     On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io
>     <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
>     like
>     the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
>     that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
>     aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
>
>     Tnx es 73
>     Dave - K1DJE
>
>     On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
>     wrote:
>      > I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
>      > copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
>     have 2
>      > copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
>      > antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
>     connecting the
>      > ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
>     to the
>      > antenna. It works like a champ.......
>      >
>      >
>      > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io>
>      > <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
>     step is
>      > to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
>     rod,
>      > less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
>      > electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
>     I plan
>      > to anchor with lawn staples.
>      >
>      > My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
>     of the
>      > HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
>     antenna, with
>      > the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>      >
>      > My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>      >
>      > Tnx es 73
>      > Dave - K1DJE
>      >
>
>
>
>




Peter VA3PET
 

Bending the aluminum radial wire around a bolt is good way to connect aluminum radials to the plate as the aluminum wire is not deformed after tightening. If you crimp 17gauge aluminum wire, you'll probably squash the wire and cause a point of future failure.

If your using stranded copper wire, crimping would  be the way to go.

Just remember to use "something" to prevent corrosion especially were dissimilar metals are involved.

73 va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Siegfried Jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:03:25 AM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 

use crimp on connectors and maybe additionally solder them ... do not wrap the wire arount the bolt

dg9bfc sigi

Am 12.08.2020 um 00:42 schrieb Peter VA3PET:
Jim,

My plate is 3/8 thick. It was easy to screw the stainless screws into the plate and then wrap the radial around the screw and tighten it. I put two wires under each screw with a washer to clamp over each wire;  having to fiddle with nuts would have been a PITA.

After drilling the #7 (or there about) holes into the aluminum,  I chucked a 1/4-20 tap into the chuck of my rechargeable drill and used it to tap the holes. You need to be careful and rotate the tap backwards occasionally to stop it binding. WD-40 is a good lube.

As far as tools, a reversible drill, the correct size drill bit and a 1/4-20 tap. And time, maybe an hour or so.

Anyway, I did the above. There is no way I could afford dx- engineering's ground plate and what I did is, electrically, every bit as good.  The biggest cost was for the SS hardware.

73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Jim Strohm <jim.strohm@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 8:22:51 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Pete,

That's an excellent solution for those of us who have the time, tools, and materials to duplicate your answer.

I'd note -- through-bolts and nuts to secure the ground wires is a better answer than threaded holes in your ground plate, but cost more.  Reliability?  If your ground plate is thick enough to accept 4 threads' worth of your attachment bolts, then threaded holes may be cheaper than nuts and bolts on a thinner plate.  Remember to use Noalox or another corrosion resistant compound.  Cost-wise, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) -- it's worth analyzing.

I will note -- I have a DXE plate for elevated radials using thru-bolts and nuts to secure the radial wires.  It's a PITA to attach the wires with bolts and nuts, and I'm looking for a good answer to catch the hardware that falls to the ground.

Also I am needing to make a structure so I can work on the ground wire attachments as well as tune the antenna.  Kind of a children's sky fort.

73
Jim N6OTQ

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:00 PM Peter VA3PET <peteretyrrell@...> wrote:
What your suggesting could work, you'll have to be careful that the wire doesn't coil when you're hooking it under the loose hose clamp.

Here's what I did (Cheap)
I got a piece of aluminum scrap plate  from our local metal recyclers. I used a hole saw to make a hole big enough so that tube "A" would easily fit through it. I then drilled and tapped two dozen or so 1/4-20 thread holes around the edge of the plate. I then put the plate over tube "A". Next I connected the plate to my ground rod and grounded my antenna to the plate. I used stainless steel screws and SS washers to connect my aluminum fence write radials the plate. I used Penatrox on every electrical connection.


73

Pete de va3pet va3hr


From: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io> on behalf of Dave K1DJE via groups.io <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 7:45:23 PM
To: Butternut@groups.io <Butternut@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [butternut] Attaching The radials to my HF9V
 
Jim, the radial plate was the first thing I thought of, but the price
tag is a show-stopper. I just paid $70 for tubes A & B for the HF9V, and
the ground shipping for that was $30! The lawn staples I just ordered
blew my antenna budget for this year hi!

73
Dave - K1DJE


On 8/11/2020 7:34 PM, Jim Strohm wrote:
> The DX Engineering radial plate is a good solution for both
> ground-mounted and elevated radials.
>
> Just remember to keep the ground connection from the radial plate as
> close as you can to the base of the "Q" coil, per the instructions.
>
> I know that the Butternut manufcturing folks watch this group -- how
> about developing a widget that easily installs to the bottom of the "Q"
> coil and to the radial plate, and is cheap enough to manufacture that it
> can be a "gimme" with the HF9V and a $3 part in the catalog?
>
> 73
> Jim N6OTQ
>
> PS I'm gonna try raising my HF9V this week.  It's been on the ground for
> a long time, longer story.
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 6:27 PM Craig KC2BK via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <cerhorn=yahoo.com@groups.io
> <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Well - I agree that soldering to Aluminum could be a problem. Maybe
>     a metal plate where the radials could be terminated and screwed
>     down, and then a pigtail to the antenna......
>
>     On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 04:46:32 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io> <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io
>     <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>
>     Hi, Craig! Soldering aluminum to copper might be a challenge, but I
>     like
>     the idea of a pigtail from the ground screw. There's plenty of room on
>     that 2" bolt. I'll try to use a compression fitting for the small-gauge
>     aluminum wire. Be a lot easier to work with than a hose clamp!!
>
>     Tnx es 73
>     Dave - K1DJE
>
>     On 8/11/2020 4:05 PM, Craig KC2BK via groups.io <http://groups.io>
>     wrote:
>      > I connected all my radials (soldered) to short lengths of 10 gauge
>      > copper wire. For my 24 radials, I divided the radials in half and
>     have 2
>      > copper 10 gauge wires that connect to the ground terminal on the
>      > antenna. I have one more length of 10 gauge copper wire
>     connecting the
>      > ground rod to the antenna ground terminal. So only 3 connections
>     to the
>      > antenna. It works like a champ.......
>      >
>      >
>      > On Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 03:46:37 PM EDT, Dave K1DJE via
>     groups.io <http://groups.io>
>      > <k1dje=yahoo.com@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com@groups.io>> wrote:
>      >
>      >
>      > Have my HF9V cleaned, repaired and reinstalled and working. Next
>     step is
>      > to attach the radials. In the past I attached them to the ground
>     rod,
>      > less than a foot from the antenna base. This time I'm using aluminum
>      > electric fence wire. I have a quarter-mile of 17-guage wire that
>     I plan
>      > to anchor with lawn staples.
>      >
>      > My "plan" right now is to use a metal hose clamp at the very base
>     of the
>      > HF9V to hold this aluminum wire against the Tube A of the
>     antenna, with
>      > the wire coming directly off the base like spokes of a wheel.
>      >
>      > My basic question is, does this sound reasonable?
>      >
>      > Tnx es 73
>      > Dave - K1DJE
>      >
>
>
>
>




Steven AC2XM
 

Just wanted to mention that there are two different types of split bolts. One type is made of copper, not plated, and cannot be used for "dissimilar metals", meaning that it cannot be used to connect copper and aluminum.

The other type _is_ plated, has a spacer, and can be used for dissimilar metals. The idea is that the copper wires go on one side of the spacer, and the aluminum wires go on the other side of the spacer. That way, the dissimilar metals don't directly touch. The bolt that I linked to in my previous email has the spacer, so it is suitable for joining aluminum to copper.

And as others have said, be sure to use an anti-corrosion joint compound like Penetrox or JetLube.

Steve

On 8/11/20 7:39 PM, Dave K1DJE via groups.io wrote:
Thanks, Steve! That split bolt sounds like just what I need! I have a large electrical ground clamp, but it's not really designed for what I want it to do. I have two "bugs" on my shack desk, may as well have one outside, too!
The main problem I have with radials is that I only have 90 degrees to work with. The antenna is in a corner of the back yard that is surrounded by deep undergrowth. Picture an "L" shape with the antenna in the lower left corner of the L. I'll be able to get to the hidden areas after the foliage dies in the fall, but for now the vertical will have to be a bit directional!
Tnx es 73
Dave - K1DJE
On 8/11/2020 4:44 PM, Steven AC2XM wrote:
It sounds like it could be tricky to get all the wires in place with just a single clamp, but I guess it depends on how many radials you are planning for.

I ultimately wound up putting down 60 radials, using the DX Engineering base plate.  That is an expensive solution, but having a separate bolt for each wire made it easy to hook everything up.

I used copper wire, because I wanted to be able to solder and crimp the lugs to the end of the wire.  If I were to use aluminum, I'd probably get some "split bolt" connectors from an electrical parts place, and use them to bundle and connect the wires.  Here is the sort of part I'm trying to describe: https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Products-90418-Connector-Conductors/dp/B005GDFSAI

I'm not recommending that particular part - I just used it as an example, since lots of folks don't know what a "split bolt" is. Electricians often call them "bugs".

     Steve


 

Guys,
I have a few answers here so pick out the ones that apply to you...
1.  Home Depot and other stores that sell electrical supplies should have ground/neutral bars that are intended for connecting many wires that are all common.  These come in various sizes, so buy something you need.  They are basically a lot of holes that have screws to clamp solid wires.  They have mounting holes so that you can mount them to a plate if needed but that would allow you to likely terminate two to four of the #17 wires in a single screw.  Use the center hole to connect to the antenna base, the Q coil and the shield of the feed-line.
2.  I use the DXE base plate and have the Q coil and the shield of the feed-line attached to screws on the plate.  Since the plate is connected to the base tube that is in the ground, the coil presents the recommended short path to earth for static to dissipate as well as provide a low impedance connection to the radial field.
3.  I crimped and soldered the radial wires to the eye terminals that came with the base plate kit.  I know it is expensive, but it works and will serve yu for years to come.
4.  There are soldering chemicals that will allow soldering to aluminum.  I have seen them at McMaster Carr but you likely will find them at welding shops or even Home Depot.
If you are forced to terminate the aluminum and then join several wires to a copper wire to allow termination to the base of the antenna, find some conductive grease designed for that purpose and then fully protect the joints to keep water out.  Cramolin makes such a grease but I bet you can find it at any electrical supply house or big box store.
5.  When tapping aluminum plate, back out the tap at least every 3-5 turns to break the curl of aluminum inside the hole so that it does not grab the tap.  Although WD40 is an ok lube, it also contains some fairly flammable chemicals as well.  3in1 works ok, but aluminum tapping oil works best.  You might have to file the surface flat as the tap will raise the surface of the aluminum and that might interfere with getting the hardware tight or getting a nice connection with the terminals.
6.  Remember that the better the radial field, the higher the Q of the antenna.  Do not be surprised when the bandwidth of the antenna goes down.  It means your antenna has less loss and therefore more of your transmitted power is headed at the horizon.
Good luck and stay safe.
--
Al
WB9UVJ