Topics

Cemetery records

David Youse
 

I regularly coordinate my records with Find-A-Grave and have found it a great resource to find relationships that were previously incomplete.  I do recognize that cemetery records are not primary evidence, but they're at least a good starting point for some information.

That said, I have read the following (  https://blog.billiongraves.com/what-is-the-difference-between-billiongraves-and-find-a-grave-for-researchers/ ) regarding the site Billion Graves and it occurs to me that perhaps it would be helpful if BK provided a link to Billion Graves as is done with Find-A Grave.

Does anyone here use Billion Graves and, if so, do you find it informative and easy to use?

Barry P.
 

I have to use BOTH for whomever I can find  in either database.

**>>   That addition would be good, David.

 

Incidentally, the subject I would have thought “Cemetery Sites”, or “Grave Sites” since “Cemetery Records” are often the written (Paper or digital) texts that are the role of local Sextants and City or Parish authorities. Those ARE PRIMARY records. As are photos with readable writing on Headstones / Gravestones.   True, the transcriptions are  SECONDARY.  But then the horse has bolted. 

 

                Barry P, 

Christchurch, New Zealand.

===--==

From: BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io [mailto:BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io] On Behalf Of David Youse
Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 5:28 PM
To: BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io
Subject: [BrothersKeeperGenealogy] Cemetery records

 

I regularly coordinate my records with Find-A-Grave and have found it a great resource to find relationships that were previously incomplete.  I do recognize that cemetery records are not primary evidence, but they're at least a good starting point for some information.

 

That said, I have read the following (  https://blog.billiongraves.com/what-is-the-difference-between-billiongraves-and-find-a-grave-for-researchers/ ) regarding the site Billion Graves and it occurs to me that perhaps it would be helpful if BK provided a link to Billion Graves as is done with Find-A Grave.

 

Does anyone here use Billion Graves and, if so, do you find it informative and easy to use?

Jim Ramaley
 

I would caution against linking external databases into Brother's Keeper in spite of the fact that having Find-a-grave as a separate, linkable field is very useful to me.  This is my main reason:

The structure of the external database is not under the control of John Steed.  That is, if (or when!) that structure is changed John would have to change not only the specific code but possibly the method he uses to access the data.  That could be a troublesome change.  This isn't the same kind of data interchange standard (like Gedcom) for which there are public standards.  In fact, automated access to an external database can be easily stopped at any time if the owner wishes to do so.

Specific to Billion Graves:   

 1. My first argument has to do with volume.  In my database I have always tried to get burial info.  I have 5389 citations to find-a-grave and 19 to billiongraves.  Just checking today, of those 19, 6 now have FAG records.  So while I do use Billiongraves when necessary, the odds of success are very much in favor of FAG.

 2. Having a picture is good.  I have been finding errors in Find-a-grave memorials where the dates have been incorrectly transcribed (often just a typo from a faded stone) and using a photo enhancer or other knowledge I can suggest corrections.   But, as noted even in Billiongraves, many memorials have no picture.

 3. Having a GPS location is good -- if you intend to visit the site. My database of 84,365 records has cemetery locations for 13,713 individuals.  Since I am working down from a single 5th great-grandfather, many of my records are for living people, but these 13,713 locations boil down to 2762 distinct cemeteries.  I have visited, perhaps, 15.

 4. . It is true that Billion Graves has greater regard for the Genealogical Proof Standard than does FAG.  In fact, I know that "corrections (suggestions)" to a given memorial in FAG are generally not verified by a person other than the original memorial creator (if still available).  But my standard is to treat most genealogical "facts" as simply suggestions and, depending on the circumstances, I will  try to verify any data I obtain with at least one other independent source.  Newspapers.com is great for obituaries.  Family Search has lots of images they obtained from local churches and county courthouses.  So goes the chase.

Jim Ramaley
Gettysburg, PA

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 2:29 AM Barry P. <barry@...> wrote:

I have to use BOTH for whomever I can find  in either database.

**>>   That addition would be good, David.

 

Incidentally, the subject I would have thought “Cemetery Sites”, or “Grave Sites” since “Cemetery Records” are often the written (Paper or digital) texts that are the role of local Sextants and City or Parish authorities. Those ARE PRIMARY records. As are photos with readable writing on Headstones / Gravestones.   True, the transcriptions are  SECONDARY.  But then the horse has bolted. 

 

                Barry P, 

Christchurch, New Zealand.

===--==

From: BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io [mailto:BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io] On Behalf Of David Youse
Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 5:28 PM
To: BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io
Subject: [BrothersKeeperGenealogy] Cemetery records

 

I regularly coordinate my records with Find-A-Grave and have found it a great resource to find relationships that were previously incomplete.  I do recognize that cemetery records are not primary evidence, but they're at least a good starting point for some information.

 

That said, I have read the following (  https://blog.billiongraves.com/what-is-the-difference-between-billiongraves-and-find-a-grave-for-researchers/ ) regarding the site Billion Graves and it occurs to me that perhaps it would be helpful if BK provided a link to Billion Graves as is done with Find-A Grave.

 

Does anyone here use Billion Graves and, if so, do you find it informative and easy to use?

J. P. Gilliver (John)
 

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 07:28:25, David Youse <dhyouse@...> wrote:
I regularly coordinate my records with Find-A-Grave and have found it a
great resource to find relationships that were previously incomplete. 
I do recognize that cemetery records are not primary evidence, but
they're at least a good starting point for some information.
I believe some of the links (?) on FindAGrave - such as to other family members - are user-submitted, so perhaps tertiary.
[]
 ) regarding the site Billion Graves and it occurs to me that perhaps
it would be helpful if BK provided a link to Billion Graves as is done
with Find-A Grave.
Two things:
1. Can you make a direct link to a record (stone?) on BG? That would need to be possible for JS to be able to do it.

2. Where would he stop?

FWIW, I've found Gravestone Photographic Resource
(http://gravestonephotos.com/public/countries.php?scrwidth=800) often better for UK, though FAG are adding all the time. But I/we can't expect JS to keep adding things like that.

Though the ability to have clickable links in general - e. g. in event and person notes - would be nice. (Something that just launched [or opened a new tab in if already open] the default browser, as most e. g. email software and many word processors can.)

Does anyone here use Billion Graves and, if so, do you find it
informative and easy to use?
Sorry, don't think I have. (Used it, I mean, so can't comment on its usability/usefulness.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You'll need to have this fish in your ear. (First series, fit the first.)

J. P. Gilliver (John)
 

(This appeared as a private email to me, but I thought was of interest to the group/list.)

On at , David <dhyouse@...> wrote:

[David - your Xfinity software's missing a "Date: " header! (Message was sent 2020-6-22 7:10.)]

On reflection, I can how adding links could get out of hand. Ideally,
It's occurred to me that it could use a prefix letter for the gravestone "slot" - so if it's a plain number it goes to FindAGrave, if it has a G at the beginning it goes to Gravestone Photographic resource, a B for Billiongraves - that would allow for 26 (well, 27) sites. (With the slot caption changed from "FindAGrave" to just "stone" or similar. [Just "stone" to avoid arguments over whether tombstone, gravestone, monument, ...])

But as another has pointed out, any such link assumes the remote database does not change its format. I presume JS has confirmed with FindAGrave that theirs will not change.

the ability to add user-defiined links would be nice but difficult to implement. Having newspapers.com would be nice, but since that's a subscription service it might not be useful for everyone.
I don't think that's a reason not to include it - I think most serious genealogists find they have to subscribe to something (Ancestry, FindMyPast, or MyHeritage, primarily) at one time or another. But I'm not sure what you're suggesting - a row of links on the edit page, like the FAG one?

Actually, it's just as easy (for me) to have multiple sites running and switch between then with Alt-Tab.
Yes; BK is really an offline application, and for a single user; I think in most cases, if someone finds something of interest (at say your newspapers site), they will download the relevant page image, and link to it under "Pictures". (With maybe a note - such as "third column, near the bottom" - in either BK's image-note field, or if it's a .jpg image in the file's own image field [IrfanView's useful for that], which saves having to add the comment multiple times if the cutting relates to multiple people.)

The FAG box is the only online functionality of BK. Though it'd be nice if URL recognition could be added to the notes fields, and maybe the Page field in the source window, so that URLs became clickable (open in the default browser), as is the case with many PDF readers, word processors, and email and news clients.

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Whoever decided to limit tagline length to 68 characters can kiss my

Barry P.
 

BK and many Family history databases and Gedcom provide for BURIAL.
The BURIAL event DESCRIPTION can contain all manner of searchable Cues
&Additional information.

The Notes to the event can contain all manner of information.
The Sources permit significant reference detail.

General Notes can be specifically determined as a file as needed.
Cues for searching & reporting can be whatever any user chooses to be
consistent in the BK database.

There are so many databases that are accessed by many methods away from BK,
why select only FindAGrave?

Links are available in the MEDIA tab. FamilySearch, Ancestry provide good
URLs for their transcriptions and images. The descriptions can include
searchable tags or cues. As can Notes & Sources for that Media link.

Barry P.
--==--==..

-----Original Message-----
From: BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io
[mailto:BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io] On Behalf Of J. P. Gilliver
(John)
Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2020 12:26 AM
To: David <dhyouse@...>; BrothersKeeperGenealogy@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BrothersKeeperGenealogy] Cemetery records

(This appeared as a private email to me, but I thought was of interest to
the group/list.)

On at , David <dhyouse@...> wrote:

[David - your Xfinity software's missing a "Date: " header! (Message was
sent 2020-6-22 7:10.)]

On reflection, I can how adding links could get out of hand. Ideally,
It's occurred to me that it could use a prefix letter for the gravestone
"slot" - so if it's a plain number it goes to FindAGrave, if it has a G at
the beginning it goes to Gravestone Photographic resource, a B for
Billiongraves - that would allow for 26 (well, 27) sites. (With the slot
caption changed from "FindAGrave" to just "stone" or similar. [Just "stone"
to avoid arguments over whether tombstone, gravestone, monument,
...])

But as another has pointed out, any such link assumes the remote database
does not change its format. I presume JS has confirmed with FindAGrave that
theirs will not change.

the ability to add user-defiined links would be nice but difficult to
implement. Having newspapers.com would be nice, but since that's a
subscription service it might not be useful for everyone.
I don't think that's a reason not to include it - I think most serious
genealogists find they have to subscribe to something (Ancestry, FindMyPast,
or MyHeritage, primarily) at one time or another. But I'm not sure what
you're suggesting - a row of links on the edit page, like the FAG one?

Actually, it's just as easy (for me) to have multiple sites running and
switch between then with Alt-Tab.
Yes; BK is really an offline application, and for a single user; I think in
most cases, if someone finds something of interest (at say your newspapers
site), they will download the relevant page image, and link to it under
"Pictures". (With maybe a note - such as "third column, near the bottom" -
in either BK's image-note field, or if it's a .jpg image in the file's own
image field [IrfanView's useful for that], which saves having to add the
comment multiple times if the cutting relates to multiple people.)

The FAG box is the only online functionality of BK. Though it'd be nice if
URL recognition could be added to the notes fields, and maybe the Page field
in the source window, so that URLs became clickable (open in the default
browser), as is the case with many PDF readers, word processors, and email
and news clients.

Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Whoever decided to limit tagline length to 68 characters can kiss my

J. P. Gilliver (John)
 

On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 18:02:04, Barry P. <@Barry_P> wrote:
BK and many Family history databases and Gedcom provide for BURIAL.
The BURIAL event DESCRIPTION can contain all manner of searchable Cues
&Additional information.

The Notes to the event can contain all manner of information.
The Sources permit significant reference detail.

General Notes can be specifically determined as a file as needed.
Cues for searching & reporting can be whatever any user chooses to be
consistent in the BK database.

There are so many databases that are accessed by many methods away from BK,
why select only FindAGrave?
I presume JS had his reasons for choosing that one. Maybe that it uses a pure number for its records?

Links are available in the MEDIA tab. FamilySearch, Ancestry provide good
URLs for their transcriptions and images. The descriptions can include
searchable tags or cues. As can Notes & Sources for that Media link.
It would still be nice if, where a URL appears in any note field (or the Page field in the Sources page), it were to be clickable.

Barry P.
--==--==..
[]
me
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he is supposed to
be doing at the moment. -Robert Benchley, humorist, drama critic, and actor
(1889-1945)