Re: xx12i


Your stupid iPad forgot mention it is an Orion 14”.




From: backbayastro@... [mailto:backbayastro@...] On Behalf Of Jim Tallman
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:16 PM
To: backbayastro@...
Subject: Re: [backbayastro] xx12i



The mirror on my14" is pretty good :)



Sent from my stupid iPad

On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Mark Ost <jimcoble2000@...> wrote:


Yeah Paul I figure you are right. Of course I have to chuckle as I have seen some very mediocre zambuto mirrors and superb Orion mirrors. As to CN I guess I have seen too many weird posts and it seems that the worse the reviewer the more they want  to post but that is just my 2 cents!
Actually optically an Orion is just as good. Man Kent and I have seen some fine things in his 10 inch.



From: Paul Tartabini <paultar@...>
To: backbayastro@...
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [backbayastro] xx12i



Well, you'll get no argument from me on the "get what you pay for" axiom. However, the scope did get some good reviews by. Also, the $700 price for a bare bones 12" w/ no tracking or push-to capability is not out of line for a mass-produced model (Zhummel charges the same price). Orion no longer offers a 'classic' version of the 12" without a COL. 

So while I'm sure you don't get a Zambuto mirror for $700, is what you do get adequate for what you're trying to do? Depends on the individual.  As I said, I have read good reviews, but only a couple. If the reviews were from complete newbs, I wouldn't have mentioned them.

Could you get some good use out of a 12" of this type for a few years until disposable income increases? I wouldn't be surprised if you could.

As for cloudynights (CN), there are certainly post-ers who fit the description you give -- little or no experience, etc. But there are quite a few who are very experienced. For instance, Tony Flanders of Sky & Telescope is a regular post-er.  There are other well known amateurs as well who post there frequently as well.

So with regard to CN, I'd suggest don't throw the baby out with the bath water. It reminds me of wikipedia. There are excellent articles on wikipedia.  One must use their intelligence to be able to spot the articles that are not good.

On CN it is the same way, and there are mechanisms to help identify unreliable post-ers. For example, each post has the name of who posted along with how many posts they've made and when they joined.  Not fool-proof, but an indicator. Plus there is a way to "rate" users so that you can easily spot well-respected members. And don't forget the instant feedback from the community that is provided when someone posts something that is "off the mark". You are also free to read every post anyone has ever made so you can quickly get an idea if they are full of it or not. Also, there are numerous forums to choose from. So, while you may find inexperienced O'Meara wannabes on the Beginner's forum, you are less likely to on dedicated observing or equipment forums. Finally, the forums are well moderated, off-topic stuff and/or flaming is not tolerated.

One final point on the wikipedia analogy, I think sometimes ideas get outdated (e.g., "wikipedia is unreliable"). In the early wild-west days of the internet, that was more true than today. Some of the stuff I've read (yes, on CN) suggests the same can be said of the mass produced optics (e.g., Orion, Zhummel, etc). Not so hot years ago, pretty good now. Again, I'm not sure how true that is, but I'm aware of the claim and still collecting data...

In the end, I'm "stuck" at the 8" aperture level for the foreseeable future, so I'll be collecting data for awhile ;-)

Of course, astronomy clubs like BBAA with their very experienced members are the best way to collect data. So I value what you say, Mark.

- Paul


PS: Don't get me wrong, I love my 8" and am continually amazed with how much enjoyment it brings me!



On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Mark Ost <jimcoble2000@...> wrote:


Cloudy nights is also a great forum for people who have six, Whole!, months of experience or, to heck with that, No experience! 


From: Paul Tartabini <paultar@...>
To: backbayastro@...
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [backbayastro] xx12i


Have you checked out the Apertura 12" model?

I've read good things about it on CloudyNights and it is only $700.  That is without intelliscope, though.  There are intriguing add-ons available, like "pre-installed setting circles" and a "tweakers package."There's no info on the setting circles as of yet, but the tweakers package has several common-sense additions that many folks eventually apply themselves. (e.g., flocking, bob's knobs, etc).

You can't beat the price, especially if you're happy w/o setting circles and tweaks...

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Derek william <derekwil22000@...> wrote:


Thanks guys for all the useful replies. I had an opportunity sleep on it last night and though the Obsession appears to be of higher quality, I just can't justify forking out another two grand for basically the same size mirror. I may sacrifice the quality, but I can always see about upgrading at a later time. Unfortunately, Orion's xx12i has been back ordered til May. Since my CFO doesn't think it's a good idea to get Harley, maybe I can explain how educational it would be for me and my boys to invest in a good scope. Not to mention the community outreach.



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