Topics

uBITX V6 Sideband Issue

Bob WB8CAC
 

My V6 arrived yesterday.  Assembly and calibration were uneventful.  I made several contacts on 80 and 40 SSB and CW.  The radio seems to be right dead on frequency transmit
and receive on SSB.  The SSB sideband issue is that if I switch from LSB to USB, the display changes but nothing happens frequency wise. There is no change in the audio of a
station being received while I switch.  People listening to my transmission report no change when I switch.

On CW, if I call CQ on a clear frequency, I have to use the RIT to tune down by whateer my tone is, in order to receive a replying station. If I'm answering someone, I have
to use the VFO to tune up, by my tone frequency, the RIT bat to their frequency.
My BFO setting is 11.056 and like I said, the dial calibration is dead on.
Any ideas what I did wrong?
 
73 DE BOB WB8CAC

 

My tests on uBitxv5 which is same circuit as V6, the best freq for BFO was 11.055,5

What was the error in CW? I am curios!

Raj

At 13/02/2020, you wrote:
My V6 arrived yesterday. Assembly and calibration were uneventful. I made several contacts on 80 and 40 SSB and CW. The radio seems to be right dead on frequency transmit
and receive on SSB. The SSB sideband issue is that if I switch from LSB to USB, the display changes but nothing happens frequency wise. There is no change in the audio of a
station being received while I switch. People listening to my transmission report no change when I switch.

On CW, if I call CQ on a clear frequency, I have to use the RIT to tune down by whateer my tone is, in order to receive a replying station. If I'm answering someone, I have
to use the VFO to tune up, by my tone frequency, the RIT bat to their frequency.
My BFO setting is 11.056 and like I said, the dial calibration is dead on.
Any ideas what I did wrong?

73 DE BOB WB8CAC

Bob WB8CAC
 

The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station.  I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob

 

Set tone to 0 (zero) and see what happens. Haven't delved into the code as yet!

At 13/02/2020, you wrote:
The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station. I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob

W2CTX
 

You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
However itb has never been fixed!

On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:


The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station.  I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob


Gordon Gibby
 

It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode. Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.

On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:

You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
However itb has never been fixed!


On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:


The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station. I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob



Jim Sheldon
 

Gordon, and others. That is the way it's supposed to work. I have posted on that a few times in the past, almost from day one, but NOBODY, not Farhan or CEC seems to have listened.

You NEVER offset the transmitter by the sidetone value in CW. That makes the dial inaccurate and can cause inadvertent out of band operation very easily.

The way CW works on ALL, repeat ALL properly designed transceivers that include CW as a mode is, when in CW mode, the keyed carrier MUST be on the exact frequency shown on the transceivers dial or whatever frequency indicator is used. The RECEIVER is offset by the sidetone frequency and in the direction from the transmitted carrier to put it in the center of whichever (USB/LSB) sideband is being received at the time. This allows the operator to tune in a CW signal to match his/her sidetone frequency and be basically zero beat to the received signals actual transmitting frequency.

This way, if you pay attention to your band limits and if your uBITX master oscillator is properly calibrated, you should never have to worry about accidentally transmitting out of band with possible legal repercussions from your country's licensing authority.

Until the people supplying the software used get this fixed, CW will never work right.

By the way, our TSW group has done it right from the first time we came up with working software for the uBITX and all our software has CW transmitting on the dial frequency with the receiver being properly offset.

Jim Sheldon, W0EB
TSW Project Coordinator

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
To: BITX20@groups.io
Sent: 2/13/2020 8:59:30 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue

It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode. Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.
On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:

You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
However itb has never been fixed!


On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:


The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station. I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob




Gordon Gibby
 

Yup—I agree.

On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:20, Jim Sheldon <@W0EB> wrote:

Gordon, and others. That is the way it's supposed to work. I have posted on that a few times in the past, almost from day one, but NOBODY, not Farhan or CEC seems to have listened.

You NEVER offset the transmitter by the sidetone value in CW. That makes the dial inaccurate and can cause inadvertent out of band operation very easily.

The way CW works on ALL, repeat ALL properly designed transceivers that include CW as a mode is, when in CW mode, the keyed carrier MUST be on the exact frequency shown on the transceivers dial or whatever frequency indicator is used. The RECEIVER is offset by the sidetone frequency and in the direction from the transmitted carrier to put it in the center of whichever (USB/LSB) sideband is being received at the time. This allows the operator to tune in a CW signal to match his/her sidetone frequency and be basically zero beat to the received signals actual transmitting frequency.

This way, if you pay attention to your band limits and if your uBITX master oscillator is properly calibrated, you should never have to worry about accidentally transmitting out of band with possible legal repercussions from your country's licensing authority.

Until the people supplying the software used get this fixed, CW will never work right.

By the way, our TSW group has done it right from the first time we came up with working software for the uBITX and all our software has CW transmitting on the dial frequency with the receiver being properly offset.

Jim Sheldon, W0EB
TSW Project Coordinator

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
To: BITX20@groups.io
Sent: 2/13/2020 8:59:30 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue

It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode. Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.
On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:
You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
However itb has never been fixed!


On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:


The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station. I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.

Bob






Ashhar Farhan
 

V6 offset for CW is already fixed. I have tested it too.
The lsb to usb switch happens when you tune. It should happen when you press the button. I will fix that one.
- f

On Thu 13 Feb, 2020, 8:53 PM Gordon Gibby, <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Yup—I agree.
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:20, Jim Sheldon <w0eb@...> wrote:
>
> Gordon, and others.  That is the way it's supposed to work.  I have posted on that a few times in the past, almost from day one, but NOBODY, not Farhan or CEC seems to have listened.
>
> You NEVER offset the transmitter by the sidetone value in CW.  That makes the dial inaccurate and can cause inadvertent out of band operation very easily.
>
> The way CW works on ALL, repeat ALL properly designed transceivers that include CW as a mode is, when in CW mode, the keyed carrier MUST be on the exact frequency shown on the transceivers dial or whatever frequency indicator is used.  The RECEIVER is offset by the sidetone frequency and in the direction from the transmitted carrier to put it in the center of whichever (USB/LSB) sideband is being received at the time.  This allows the operator to tune in a CW signal to match his/her sidetone frequency and be basically zero beat to the received signals actual transmitting frequency.
>
> This way, if you pay attention to your band limits and if your uBITX master oscillator is properly calibrated, you should never have to worry about accidentally transmitting out of band with possible legal repercussions from your country's licensing authority.
>
> Until the people supplying the software used get this fixed, CW will never work right.
>
> By the way, our TSW group has done it right from the first time we came up with working software for the uBITX and all our software has CW transmitting on the dial frequency with the receiver being properly offset.
>
> Jim Sheldon, W0EB
> TSW Project Coordinator
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
> To: BITX20@groups.io
> Sent: 2/13/2020 8:59:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue
>
>> It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode.  Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT  frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.
>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
>>> However itb has never been fixed!
>>>
>>>
>>>> On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station.  I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Gordon Gibby
 

Great!  I stand corrected. 


On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:53, Ashhar Farhan <farhanbox@...> wrote:


V6 offset for CW is already fixed. I have tested it too.
The lsb to usb switch happens when you tune. It should happen when you press the button. I will fix that one.
- f

On Thu 13 Feb, 2020, 8:53 PM Gordon Gibby, <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Yup—I agree.
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:20, Jim Sheldon <w0eb@...> wrote:
>
> Gordon, and others.  That is the way it's supposed to work.  I have posted on that a few times in the past, almost from day one, but NOBODY, not Farhan or CEC seems to have listened.
>
> You NEVER offset the transmitter by the sidetone value in CW.  That makes the dial inaccurate and can cause inadvertent out of band operation very easily.
>
> The way CW works on ALL, repeat ALL properly designed transceivers that include CW as a mode is, when in CW mode, the keyed carrier MUST be on the exact frequency shown on the transceivers dial or whatever frequency indicator is used.  The RECEIVER is offset by the sidetone frequency and in the direction from the transmitted carrier to put it in the center of whichever (USB/LSB) sideband is being received at the time.  This allows the operator to tune in a CW signal to match his/her sidetone frequency and be basically zero beat to the received signals actual transmitting frequency.
>
> This way, if you pay attention to your band limits and if your uBITX master oscillator is properly calibrated, you should never have to worry about accidentally transmitting out of band with possible legal repercussions from your country's licensing authority.
>
> Until the people supplying the software used get this fixed, CW will never work right.
>
> By the way, our TSW group has done it right from the first time we came up with working software for the uBITX and all our software has CW transmitting on the dial frequency with the receiver being properly offset.
>
> Jim Sheldon, W0EB
> TSW Project Coordinator
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
> To: BITX20@groups.io
> Sent: 2/13/2020 8:59:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue
>
>> It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode.  Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT  frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.
>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
>>> However itb has never been fixed!
>>>
>>>
>>>> On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station.  I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Jim Sheldon
 

I am sorry Farhan, I just downloaded and installed your LATEST from GitHub (V6.1).  The TRANSMITTER is still being offset by the sidetone, NOT the receiver.  You have NOT fixed the CW offset issue and until thatj is corrected, you will still be getting complaints.  

I TESTED this on the air with a local ham and he confirms the fact (he was using a Yaesu FT-5000 commercial transceiver). I had him tuned in on exactly 7025.00 matching the 800 sidetone to the incoming signal, CW and LSB selected.  The V6 uBITX was transmitting on 7024.20 KHz.  That is a TRANSMIT offset, NOT a receive offset.

Sorry, but it ain't fixed yet and has always been like this since way back in Version 3

Jim Sheldon,  W0EB

------ Original Message ------
From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
Sent: 2/13/2020 9:55:27 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue

Great!  I stand corrected. 


On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:53, Ashhar Farhan <farhanbox@...> wrote:


V6 offset for CW is already fixed. I have tested it too.
The lsb to usb switch happens when you tune. It should happen when you press the button. I will fix that one.
- f

On Thu 13 Feb, 2020, 8:53 PM Gordon Gibby, <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Yup—I agree.
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 10:20, Jim Sheldon <w0eb@...> wrote:
>
> Gordon, and others.  That is the way it's supposed to work.  I have posted on that a few times in the past, almost from day one, but NOBODY, not Farhan or CEC seems to have listened.
>
> You NEVER offset the transmitter by the sidetone value in CW.  That makes the dial inaccurate and can cause inadvertent out of band operation very easily.
>
> The way CW works on ALL, repeat ALL properly designed transceivers that include CW as a mode is, when in CW mode, the keyed carrier MUST be on the exact frequency shown on the transceivers dial or whatever frequency indicator is used.  The RECEIVER is offset by the sidetone frequency and in the direction from the transmitted carrier to put it in the center of whichever (USB/LSB) sideband is being received at the time.  This allows the operator to tune in a CW signal to match his/her sidetone frequency and be basically zero beat to the received signals actual transmitting frequency.
>
> This way, if you pay attention to your band limits and if your uBITX master oscillator is properly calibrated, you should never have to worry about accidentally transmitting out of band with possible legal repercussions from your country's licensing authority.
>
> Until the people supplying the software used get this fixed, CW will never work right.
>
> By the way, our TSW group has done it right from the first time we came up with working software for the uBITX and all our software has CW transmitting on the dial frequency with the receiver being properly offset.
>
> Jim Sheldon, W0EB
> TSW Project Coordinator
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Gordon Gibby" <docvacuumtubes@...>
> To: BITX20@groups.io
> Sent: 2/13/2020 8:59:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue
>
>> It can easily be fixed, however it would require that people explicitly choose to be in CW mode.  Then the offset can be built right into the code, with the display showing your TRANSMIT  frequency, and receiving offset by the proper amount.
>>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 09:49, W2CTX <w2ctx@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> You are correct in how the ubitx works in CW and it has been wrong since day 1.
>>> However itb has never been fixed!
>>>
>>>
>>>> On February 13, 2020 at 8:37 AM currently@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CW issue it that I have to tune off of my frequency, by whatever frequency I have the tone set for, in order to hear a replying station.  I thought the entire idea of having that tone setting was to not have to use the RIT.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>



Reed N
 

Ashhar,

Do you have commits you haven't pushed yet? My reading of the code suggests that CW tuning does not behave as Jim described.

Let's suppose somebody I want to chat with is transmitting exactly at 7.200.000Hz. Let's also suppose that I have my side tone set to 600Hz, and that I can tune perfectly to this pitch. Finally, suppose that I'm in LSB mode.

I tune my dial, and when my display says 7.200.000Hz then I will actually be hearing that frequency as 600Hz, because the actual tuning frequency is offset by the side tone, which is good
https://github.com/afarhan/ubitxv6/blob/master/ubitx_v6.1_code.ino#L391

However, when I then try and transmit, I believe that I end up transmitting at 7.199.400Hz, because the side tone is applied on transmit too
https://github.com/afarhan/ubitxv6/blob/master/ubitx_v6.1_code.ino#L448

Am I misreading that?


Reed

Gordon Gibby
 

Reid, what you described is the WRONG way for a CW transceiver to work.   




On Feb 13, 2020, at 12:09, Reed N <greenkid336600+groupsio@...> wrote:

Ashhar,

Do you have commits you haven't pushed yet? My reading of the code suggests that CW tuning does not behave as Jim described.

Let's suppose somebody I want to chat with is transmitting exactly at 7.200.000Hz. Let's also suppose that I have my side tone set to 600Hz, and that I can tune perfectly to this pitch. Finally, suppose that I'm in LSB mode.

I tune my dial, and when my display says 7.200.000Hz then I will actually be hearing that frequency as 600Hz, because the actual tuning frequency is offset by the side tone, which is good
https://github.com/afarhan/ubitxv6/blob/master/ubitx_v6.1_code.ino#L391

However, when I then try and transmit, I believe that I end up transmitting at 7.199.400Hz, because the side tone is applied on transmit too
https://github.com/afarhan/ubitxv6/blob/master/ubitx_v6.1_code.ino#L448

Am I misreading that?


Reed

Reed N
 

To be clear, "not behave as Jim described" was in reference to his comment https://groups.io/g/BITX20/message/75987
Not his comment https://groups.io/g/BITX20/message/75994


Reed

Reed N
 

I'm describing what the code *is* doing. Not what it necessarily *should* be doing.


Reed

W2CTX
 

Hey Reed
If we were not confused before we now are! ( This is a joke ) hihi

rOn

On February 13, 2020 at 12:28 PM Reed N <greenkid336600+groupsio@...> wrote:


I'm describing what the code *is* doing. Not what it necessarily *should* be doing.

Reed


Evan Hand
 

two points and then done:

1 - The dial frequency should always be the "carrier" frequency to insure you know where you are in the spectrum.  By carrier I mean that actual CW frequency sent, or where the carrier would be if the SSB signal was full AM. 
2 - If you don't like the way the radio works, change it!  That is the beauty of open source with open hardware,

Please excuse my rant, but just could not stand by.

Above are my opinions, yours can be different.

73
Evan
AC9TU

Jim Sheldon
 

Reed, 

I figured that,  when you sent the original message, but you maybe should have been a bit more specific as others might misinterpret it as working properly and not do anything about the actual problem.  

BTW I've had confirmation of the continuing TX offset problem from several other people since my original and subsequent posts on the subject and they are also using the (supposedly) latest V6.1 off github for testing.

I reiterate, it ain't fixed yet.

Jim, W0EB

------ Original Message ------
Sent: 2/13/2020 11:28:45 AM
Subject: Re: [BITX20] uBITX V6 Sideband Issue

I'm describing what the code *is* doing. Not what it necessarily *should* be doing.


Reed

Arv Evans
 

Well said.  
_-_


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 11:49 AM Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:
two points and then done:

1 - The dial frequency should always be the "carrier" frequency to insure you know where you are in the spectrum.  By carrier I mean that actual CW frequency sent, or where the carrier would be if the SSB signal was full AM. 
2 - If you don't like the way the radio works, change it!  That is the beauty of open source with open hardware,

Please excuse my rant, but just could not stand by.

Above are my opinions, yours can be different.

73
Evan
AC9TU

Vic WA4THR
 

The offset issue is fixed in the KD8CEC v1.1 version, but you have to set the option through the Memory Manager program. Once done, the CW receive will be offset by the selected side tone while the transmit will be on the displayed frequency.

=Vic=