Topics

Rotary encoder


Peter Russell <peter.russell@...>
 

Another little problem.
I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?

I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit 'flimsy'.
I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just me being a bit picky?

Peter G8FWY

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Curt
 

Peter

The encoder is reasonable for its job. I sense it is okay. The action of the encoder seems to be generating noise, that receiver is picking up. It could he s missing solder joint related to a ground connection at the controller IC, or the receiver,  or same on a related capacitor.

Curt


Curt
 

Woops wrong list, I was thinking QCX. While these are possible I would question the manual wiring first, it may he a ground connection not connected.

Curt


Jack, W8TEE
 

First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might help.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:


Another little problem.
I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?

I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
'flimsy'.
I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
me being a bit picky?

Peter G8FWY

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.





Peter Russell <peter.russell@...>
 

Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might help.
Jack, W8TEE
On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:
Another little problem.
I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
'flimsy'.
I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
me being a bit picky?
Peter G8FWY
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Jack, W8TEE
 

Not really, the parts per revolution is something I'd look at, since most are around 20-25ppr. Matching this with the other encoders you are using probably makes sense. Encoders with detents will probably be less expensive. Buy a bunch, as the price drops like a stone on eBay for multiples. You can always sell them to club members or use them in your own stuff. Also, some have small boards attached (e.g., KY-040) and may have pullup resistors on them. You can take them off if required or, in some cases, change the pinMode() not to use INPUT_PULLUP as its parameter in the software. Since it's pretty hard to "hurt" anything in software, grab what you can find and give it a try.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 11:27:17 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:


Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
> First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that
> fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you
> can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might
> help.
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell
> <peter.russell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Another little problem.
> I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
> I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
> Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
>
> I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
> 'flimsy'.
> I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
> me being a bit picky?
>
> Peter G8FWY
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>




Scott McDonald
 

Jack, as long as we're talking encoders, will JackAl be able to easily handle some of the higher resolution optical encoders?  My understanding of this is very limited, but I did the experiment using a really sweet surplus Bourn optical encoder with some CEC software, and the Nano couldn't keep up with the encoder, a problem I think I now might understand has to do with the way interrupts aren't used in most uBITX code? (think is a euphemism in that context though, I'm still on Chapter 4 of your book :) .
 
Thanks, and congrats on the launch, HNY.
 
Scott ka9p
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum@...>
To: BITX20 <BITX20@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 1, 2019 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

Not really, the parts per revolution is something I'd look at, since most are around 20-25ppr. Matching this with the other encoders you are using probably makes sense. Encoders with detents will probably be less expensive. Buy a bunch, as the price drops like a stone on eBay for multiples. You can always sell them to club members or use them in your own stuff. Also, some have small boards attached (e.g., KY-040) and may have pullup resistors on them. You can take them off if required or, in some cases, change the pinMode() not to use INPUT_PULLUP as its parameter in the software. Since it's pretty hard to "hurt" anything in software, grab what you can find and give it a try.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 11:27:17 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:


Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
> First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that
> fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you
> can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might
> help.
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell
> <peter.russell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Another little problem.
> I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
> I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
> Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
>
> I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
> 'flimsy'.
> I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
> me being a bit picky?
>
> Peter G8FWY
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>




Albert Peter
 

The short answer is YES.  I am using a nice Bournes optical.  The connections on the JackAl PCB have +5 V available and the system seems plenty fast for normal tuning.

Al

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott McDonald via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 1:05 PM
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

 

Jack, as long as we're talking encoders, will JackAl be able to easily handle some of the higher resolution optical encoders?  My understanding of this is very limited, but I did the experiment using a really sweet surplus Bourn optical encoder with some CEC software, and the Nano couldn't keep up with the encoder, a problem I think I now might understand has to do with the way interrupts aren't used in most uBITX code? (think is a euphemism in that context though, I'm still on Chapter 4 of your book :) .

 

Thanks, and congrats on the launch, HNY.

 

Scott ka9p

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum@...>
To: BITX20 <BITX20@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 1, 2019 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

Not really, the parts per revolution is something I'd look at, since most are around 20-25ppr. Matching this with the other encoders you are using probably makes sense. Encoders with detents will probably be less expensive. Buy a bunch, as the price drops like a stone on eBay for multiples. You can always sell them to club members or use them in your own stuff. Also, some have small boards attached (e.g., KY-040) and may have pullup resistors on them. You can take them off if required or, in some cases, change the pinMode() not to use INPUT_PULLUP as its parameter in the software. Since it's pretty hard to "hurt" anything in software, grab what you can find and give it a try.

 

Jack, W8TEE

 

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 11:27:17 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
> First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that
> fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you
> can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might
> help.
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell
> <peter.russell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Another little problem.
> I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
> I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
> Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
>
> I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
> 'flimsy'.
> I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
> me being a bit picky?
>
> Peter G8FWY
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>


 


Scott McDonald
 

Thanks Al.  There could be no better short answer.  It’s great the Day of the JackAl has arrived.

73 Scott

Make something good happen!

On Jan 1, 2019, at 12:33 PM, Albert Peter <albertfpeter@...> wrote:

The short answer is YES.  I am using a nice Bournes optical.  The connections on the JackAl PCB have +5 V available and the system seems plenty fast for normal tuning.

Al

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott McDonald via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 1:05 PM
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

 

Jack, as long as we're talking encoders, will JackAl be able to easily handle some of the higher resolution optical encoders?  My understanding of this is very limited, but I did the experiment using a really sweet surplus Bourn optical encoder with some CEC software, and the Nano couldn't keep up with the encoder, a problem I think I now might understand has to do with the way interrupts aren't used in most uBITX code? (think is a euphemism in that context though, I'm still on Chapter 4 of your book :) .

 

Thanks, and congrats on the launch, HNY.

 

Scott ka9p

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum@...>
To: BITX20 <BITX20@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 1, 2019 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

Not really, the parts per revolution is something I'd look at, since most are around 20-25ppr. Matching this with the other encoders you are using probably makes sense. Encoders with detents will probably be less expensive. Buy a bunch, as the price drops like a stone on eBay for multiples. You can always sell them to club members or use them in your own stuff. Also, some have small boards attached (e.g., KY-040) and may have pullup resistors on them. You can take them off if required or, in some cases, change the pinMode() not to use INPUT_PULLUP as its parameter in the software. Since it's pretty hard to "hurt" anything in software, grab what you can find and give it a try.

 

Jack, W8TEE

 

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 11:27:17 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
> First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that
> fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you
> can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might
> help.
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell
> <peter.russell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Another little problem.
> I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
> I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
> Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
>
> I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
> 'flimsy'.
> I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
> me being a bit picky?
>
> Peter G8FWY
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>


 

<D9FB333EE2C44A1B998A522EA076CF9E.png>
<D0ED921D3A0E499FBFCAC0B0CCEE1EE5.png>


Jack, W8TEE
 

I see Al already answered this. I, too, have used a hi-rez optical with JackAl, but dropped back to a "detent" encoder. Don't ask me why, but I kinda like the feedback feel I get with a detent encoder. Since the Teensy is 10x faster than the Nano, I think you'd have to be tuning with a Dremel to tune it too fast.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 1:05:08 PM EST, Scott McDonald via Groups.Io <ka9p@...> wrote:


Jack, as long as we're talking encoders, will JackAl be able to easily handle some of the higher resolution optical encoders?  My understanding of this is very limited, but I did the experiment using a really sweet surplus Bourn optical encoder with some CEC software, and the Nano couldn't keep up with the encoder, a problem I think I now might understand has to do with the way interrupts aren't used in most uBITX code? (think is a euphemism in that context though, I'm still on Chapter 4 of your book :) .
 
Thanks, and congrats on the launch, HNY.
 
Scott ka9p
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum@...>
To: BITX20 <BITX20@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 1, 2019 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Rotary encoder

Not really, the parts per revolution is something I'd look at, since most are around 20-25ppr. Matching this with the other encoders you are using probably makes sense. Encoders with detents will probably be less expensive. Buy a bunch, as the price drops like a stone on eBay for multiples. You can always sell them to club members or use them in your own stuff. Also, some have small boards attached (e.g., KY-040) and may have pullup resistors on them. You can take them off if required or, in some cases, change the pinMode() not to use INPUT_PULLUP as its parameter in the software. Since it's pretty hard to "hurt" anything in software, grab what you can find and give it a try.

Jack, W8TEE

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 11:27:17 AM EST, Peter Russell <peter.russell@...> wrote:


Thanks Jack.
Is there a particular type or spec that I should look for?

Peter.

On 01/01/2019 15:34, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io wrote:
> First, try moving the encoder leads and see if it has an impact. If that
> fails, try a Bourne (or better type) encoder. If that fails, see if you
> can find a reasonably-priced optical encoder. I'm no EE, but these might
> help.
>
> Jack, W8TEE
>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2019, 7:11:00 AM EST, Peter Russell
> <peter.russell@...> wrote:
>
>
> Another little problem.
> I'm finding that the rotary encoder is generating quite a bit of noise.
> I can hear every 'tick' when I turn it.
> Is this normal, or have I got a bad un?
>
> I don't have any experience of rotary encoders, but this one seems a bit
> 'flimsy'.
> I would have expected something a bit more substantial - or is this just
> me being a bit picky?
>
> Peter G8FWY
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>




Gerard
 

Good evening,
My encoder causes snaps in the top speaker. At the oscilloscope, we can see a few millivolts of the square signal caused by the rotation at the entry of amplifier
I tried to move the ground wire, add a couple of capacitors to it. no résults.
That noise is a bit distressing. Some of you have they found a solution? Added ferrite, shieds cable or other?

So, is the solution here?
An optical encoder:
https://www.amazon.com/Signswise-Incremental-Encoder-Dc5-24v-Voltage/dp/B00Y9KDDCY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1PP0JIQNJ72V6&dchild=1&keywords=optical+rotary+encoder&qid=1603214181&sprefix=optical+rotary+%2Caps%2C242&sr=8-3

with a beautiful button
https://www.amazon.com/100PPR-Terminal-Eletronic-Manual-Encoder/dp/B00PIAMLO0/ref=sr_1_61?crid=1PP0JIQNJ72V6&dchild=1&keywords=optical+rotary+encoder&qid=1603214348&sprefix=optical+rotary+%2Caps%2C242&sr=8-61

has anyone successfully tested this product or other?
Thank's

cdt


Evan Hand
 

There is some evidence that the pops or clicks are from the Si5351 changing frequencies. Not sure if there is a solution. 


the other option may be to put bypass caps on the encoder leads.  Maybe 0.01 to 0.1 microfarad.  This is assuming that the switching is the issue.


73
Evan
AC9TU


Gerard
 

Evan,
Nice to hear from you.
yeah, I tried the capas on the encoder. But as said before, the switching signal of the encoder (square signals) go  on the side of the amplifier. These are just a few millivolts, but enough to create this click in the speaker.

That’s why the optical encoder is probably the solution(?)
Do you have that noise on your µbitx?
What I can say is that mine isn’t in the case yet. It’s all on the table for testing.
It’s a little awkward, so what I want to know is if a solution has been found.
see here a video of this noise.
NB: I have not yet calibrated the smeter, but the modification with the LM358 is done
cdt


Gerard
 

Evan,
Installing an optical rotary encoder doesn’t seem that simple.
This still requires hardware changes with the addition of a splitter and/or soft changes. PB of numbers of PPM
For the moment, I will only ask this question: "Is there an optical rotary encoder possible replacement without any further modification?"

See here for exemple of post
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/10293081#41319
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/27394046#60812
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/6188975#33650
etc

Cdt


Evan Hand
 

Gerard,
I do not have direct experience with replacing a mechanical encoder with an optical one.  You will at least need to run power to the new encoder, and verify that it outputs a low pulse rather than a high (NC vs NO type of switch).  The program for reading the encoder value is based on measuring the voltage level with a pull-up resistor (internal to the Nano).  This was done so that an analog input could be used for the connections.  Normally that would have been digital inputs.  There just are not enough digital inputs on the Nano.

So other than running the 5volt power to the encoder, and ensuring it is active low pulse output, that there are no more than 20-30 pulses per revolution, then there should not be any other changes required.

If you do go to active high, then you will need to change the logic in the Nano program.

73
Evan
AC9TU


barry halterman
 

I use a bourns EM14 series for both my v6 and v4 ubitx. They are a little expensive but work well. You do need to connect them to 5v and ground. 
Barry

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 9:50 AM Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:
Gerard,
I do not have direct experience with replacing a mechanical encoder with an optical one.  You will at least need to run power to the new encoder, and verify that it outputs a low pulse rather than a high (NC vs NO type of switch).  The program for reading the encoder value is based on measuring the voltage level with a pull-up resistor (internal to the Nano).  This was done so that an analog input could be used for the connections.  Normally that would have been digital inputs.  There just are not enough digital inputs on the Nano.

So other than running the 5volt power to the encoder, and ensuring it is active low pulse output, that there are no more than 20-30 pulses per revolution, then there should not be any other changes required.

If you do go to active high, then you will need to change the logic in the Nano program.

73
Evan
AC9TU


Gerard
 


Hello Barry,
thank you for the information

Datasheet here for all
https://www.bourns.com/pdfs/em14.pdf
cdt


Vince Vielhaber
 

I use one of those optical encoders for a different vfo, but I did test it with a bitx40 raduino first. It works but be forewarned. There are MANY more pulses per revolution than the one that comes with the uBitx. Your code will need to ignore a lot of the pulses that it puts out. Now on the other hand, a nice weighted knob and you can give that thing a spin and it'll go for a good long time!!!

I'm currently building a DDS-VFO for a Drake TR7 that will be using a 400 pulse optical encoder.

Vince - K8ZW.

On 10/21/2020 09:33 AM, Gerard wrote:
Evan,
Installing an optical rotary encoder doesn’t seem that simple.
This still requires hardware changes with the addition of a splitter
and/or soft changes. PB of numbers of PPM
For the moment, I will only ask this question: */"Is there an optical
rotary encoder possible replacement without any further modification?"/*

See here for exemple of post
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/10293081#41319
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/27394046#60812
https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/6188975#33650
etc

Cdt


barry halterman
 

The encoder I use is 8ppr ( pulses per revolution), no switch, no detent that will give 32 bi-phase transitions per rev. If you go with a 32 ppr encoder you get 128 bi-phase transitions per rev. Some sketches for the nano can not keep up with this amount of transitions! Reeds sketch for the nano is interrupt driven and can zip along nicely with the 32 ppr encoder. 
Barry

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 12:55 PM Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:
I use one of those optical encoders for a different vfo, but I did test
it with a bitx40 raduino first.  It works but be forewarned.   There are
MANY more pulses per revolution than the one that comes with the uBitx.
Your code will need to ignore a lot of the pulses that it puts out.
Now on the other hand, a nice weighted knob and you can give that thing
a spin and it'll go for a good long time!!!

I'm currently building a DDS-VFO for a Drake TR7 that will be using a
400 pulse optical encoder.

Vince - K8ZW.


On 10/21/2020 09:33 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Evan,
> Installing an optical rotary encoder doesn’t seem that simple.
> This still requires hardware changes with the addition of a splitter
> and/or soft changes. PB of numbers of PPM
> For the moment, I will only ask this question: */"Is there an optical
> rotary encoder possible replacement without any further modification?"/*
>
> See here for exemple of post
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/10293081#41319
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/27394046#60812
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/6188975#33650
> etc
>
> Cdt
>

--
   K8ZW  http://www.metalworkingfun.com   http://www.hamradio.fun






Vince Vielhaber
 

The one I was referring to from one of Gerald's links was a 600 ppr encoder. I'm using a 400. Like Reed's, mine is interrupt driven. I also have a couple of 2000 ppr encoders that I got for a now defunct project. There is a limit to what the arduino will do on the interrupt line, but right now I don't recall what that limit is, but I seem to recall it's over 100 kHz, of course the limit will be in your code.

Vince.

On 10/21/2020 04:29 PM, barry halterman wrote:
The encoder I use is 8ppr ( pulses per revolution), no switch, no detent
that will give 32 bi-phase transitions per rev. If you go with a 32 ppr
encoder you get 128 bi-phase transitions per rev. Some sketches for the
nano can not keep up with this amount of transitions! Reeds sketch for
the nano is interrupt driven and can zip along nicely with the 32 ppr
encoder.
Barry

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 12:55 PM Vince Vielhaber <vev@...
<mailto:vev@...>> wrote:

I use one of those optical encoders for a different vfo, but I did test
it with a bitx40 raduino first. It works but be forewarned. There
are
MANY more pulses per revolution than the one that comes with the uBitx.
Your code will need to ignore a lot of the pulses that it puts out.
Now on the other hand, a nice weighted knob and you can give that thing
a spin and it'll go for a good long time!!!

I'm currently building a DDS-VFO for a Drake TR7 that will be using a
400 pulse optical encoder.

Vince - K8ZW.


On 10/21/2020 09:33 AM, Gerard wrote:
> Evan,
> Installing an optical rotary encoder doesn’t seem that simple.
> This still requires hardware changes with the addition of a splitter
> and/or soft changes. PB of numbers of PPM
> For the moment, I will only ask this question: */"Is there an optical
> rotary encoder possible replacement without any further
modification?"/*
>
> See here for exemple of post
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/10293081#41319
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/27394046#60812
> https://groups.io/g/BITX20/topic/6188975#33650
> etc
>
> Cdt
>

--
K8ZW http://www.metalworkingfun.com http://www.hamradio.fun