Topics

moderated QST September 2019 pg42 to 47

Dave New
 

Thanks, Hans.

I think the difference here is that QRP Labs are advertisers in QST, where I don't think that HFSignals has ever placed an ad there.

I notice from time to time that when a particular manufacturer's rig is reviewed that sometimes an ad is placed directly within the review or at least on a facing page at the start or end.  Seems like QST gives an opportunity to the manufacturer of favored placement of an ad, if they so desire (and are willing to pay, I'm sure).

Asher, did you get an opportunity to place an ad in that one QST, and ended up turning it down?

I could see where manufacturers that typically don't advertise in QST might like to take advantage of a one-time ad placement, not only for marketing purposes, but also to qualify for the ability to place the review on their web site, as a qualifying advertiser.

73,

-- Dave, N8SBE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [BITX20] QST September 2019 pg42 to 47
From: "Hans Summers" <hans.summers@...>
Date: Thu, August 22, 2019 9:16 am
To: "BITX20@groups.io" <BITX20@groups.io>

FYI - 

I emailed ARRL for permission to reproduce the reviews of the QCX 5W CW transceiver kit and the QLG1 GPS Receiver kit and Dummy Load kits from the August and September 2019 QST editions. I received permission around 8 hours later. I have added these reviews to the relevant pages of the QRP Labs site e.g. http://qrp-labs.com/qcx

Farhan, you could ask about the BITX review too. 

73 Hans G0UPL

Jack Purdum
 

This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

pat griffin
 

Jack,
You have made this argument before and each time it is well put. I’m with you buddy.
73
Pat AA4PG


On Aug 22, 2019, at 11:57 AM, Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum@...> wrote:

This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Dr. Flywheel
 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever.
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase.
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)?
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ


On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Jack Purdum
 

See below:
Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 1:48:25 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. Are you really saying that people only use torrent sites to preview books? Far and away most are using the site to get a free book and have no intention of paying for it regardless of its worth. To think otherwise is woefully naive. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever. What difference can it possibly make whether they keep a free download book or not?
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase. However,  if you buy a used copy, at least someone bought the book and the author was paid for that copy. If you rip off a copy or someone gives you a file that contains the book, my guess is that copy has never been paid for.;
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work. All of my work, including that in the Arduino Projects book is Open Source for both the hardware and software. So, in one sense I am paid for it, but in another I receive nothing for it. You're free to write what you want and disseminate it in whatever format you wish. However, publishers expect a return on their investment and I see nothing wrong with that.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)? There are many places where students can buy used books at reasonable prices. Perhaps one reason books are so expensive at university books stores is because publishers are getting ripped off by torrent sites. It could be a chicken-egg thing.
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality. Do you get to determine "fair price"? Or perhaps the costs of development, editing, printing, binding, marketing, distribution and other costs play a more important part in determining a fair price. How do you know what my time is worth? Hint: You don't have a clue.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books Bullshit.. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors. Agreed, and torrent sites play a significant role.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Hans Summers
 

Hi Dave

QRP Labs is not an advertiser in QST and never has been. 

I was shown a preview of the review in order to comment on any technical inaccuracies (altering the content i.e. the opinion of the reviewer, or disputing measurements, is not possible). Advertising space on a nearby page wasn't mentioned.

73 Hans G0UPL 

Dr. Flywheel
 

Jack,

I just love educated responses that use Bullshit as an argument. What could be more reliable?

Cost of Books - See: https://www.debt.org/students/the-true-cost-of-college/
If, for example, you are majoring in architecture or engineering, you may need computer programs that an English or Education major won’t need. The national average for this category in 2017 was $1,100, but the cost of books is soaring every year so count on it going up from 8%-10% from year-to-year.


image.png
As much as you like to flatter yourself about the high loss rate of books "stolen" via file sharing services (torrent is one type), this type of traffic is almost negligible. Most torrent type traffic is PORN content. Empirical data that I received from ISP traffic pattern analysis indicates that about 93% of the file sharing protocols (in action) carry tagged PORN data. eBook tagged data traffic is almost not measurable in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on changing the world. Now it is a competition between your high-value books (that apparently are not going to be published, due to lack of profitability) and what people are actually consuming en mass 24/7/365.

--Ron    N7FTZ



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:20 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
See below:
Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 1:48:25 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. Are you really saying that people only use torrent sites to preview books? Far and away most are using the site to get a free book and have no intention of paying for it regardless of its worth. To think otherwise is woefully naive. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever. What difference can it possibly make whether they keep a free download book or not?
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase. However,  if you buy a used copy, at least someone bought the book and the author was paid for that copy. If you rip off a copy or someone gives you a file that contains the book, my guess is that copy has never been paid for.;
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work. All of my work, including that in the Arduino Projects book is Open Source for both the hardware and software. So, in one sense I am paid for it, but in another I receive nothing for it. You're free to write what you want and disseminate it in whatever format you wish. However, publishers expect a return on their investment and I see nothing wrong with that.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)? There are many places where students can buy used books at reasonable prices. Perhaps one reason books are so expensive at university books stores is because publishers are getting ripped off by torrent sites. It could be a chicken-egg thing.
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality. Do you get to determine "fair price"? Or perhaps the costs of development, editing, printing, binding, marketing, distribution and other costs play a more important part in determining a fair price. How do you know what my time is worth? Hint: You don't have a clue.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books Bullshit.. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors. Agreed, and torrent sites play a significant role.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Donald
 

Ron N7FTZ, you seem not to realize, Jack W8TEE is already published.

On 8/22/2019 3:36 PM, Dr. Flywheel wrote:
Jack,

I just love educated responses that use Bullshit as an argument. What could be more reliable?

Cost of Books - See: https://www.debt.org/students/the-true-cost-of-college/
If, for example, you are majoring in architecture or engineering, you may need computer programs that an English or Education major won’t need. The national average for this category in 2017 was $1,100, but the cost of books is soaring every year so count on it going up from 8%-10% from year-to-year.


image.png
As much as you like to flatter yourself about the high loss rate of books "stolen" via file sharing services (torrent is one type), this type of traffic is almost negligible. Most torrent type traffic is PORN content. Empirical data that I received from ISP traffic pattern analysis indicates that about 93% of the file sharing protocols (in action) carry tagged PORN data. eBook tagged data traffic is almost not measurable in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on changing the world. Now it is a competition between your high-value books (that apparently are not going to be published, due to lack of profitability) and what people are actually consuming en mass 24/7/365.

--Ron    N7FTZ



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:20 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
See below:
Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 1:48:25 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. Are you really saying that people only use torrent sites to preview books? Far and away most are using the site to get a free book and have no intention of paying for it regardless of its worth. To think otherwise is woefully naive. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever. What difference can it possibly make whether they keep a free download book or not?
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase. However,  if you buy a used copy, at least someone bought the book and the author was paid for that copy. If you rip off a copy or someone gives you a file that contains the book, my guess is that copy has never been paid for.;
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work. All of my work, including that in the Arduino Projects book is Open Source for both the hardware and software. So, in one sense I am paid for it, but in another I receive nothing for it. You're free to write what you want and disseminate it in whatever format you wish. However, publishers expect a return on their investment and I see nothing wrong with that.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)? There are many places where students can buy used books at reasonable prices. Perhaps one reason books are so expensive at university books stores is because publishers are getting ripped off by torrent sites. It could be a chicken-egg thing.
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality. Do you get to determine "fair price"? Or perhaps the costs of development, editing, printing, binding, marketing, distribution and other costs play a more important part in determining a fair price. How do you know what my time is worth? Hint: You don't have a clue.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books Bullshit.. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors. Agreed, and torrent sites play a significant role.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Ken Hansen
 

No, the vast majority (aka a "great part") of student debt is not due to the high cost of student textbooks..

A $20-40,000/year university is not suddenly rendered 'unaffordable' by $500-800 in text books per semester.

It's a non-sensical claim, but please, I'd be interested in your source for that claim.

Ken, N2VIP

On Aug 22, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:

Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books.

Jack Purdum
 

It's a perfectly apropos response to a statement that is without foundation or fact, which is exactly what your statement was. I highlighted the BS part. What you wrote below doesn't change the BS you offered in the first note.

One wonders how you know most torrent traffic is on porn sites, but that's another question and doesn't lessen the revenue lost on books. Can you supply the place where you found the statement: "eBook tagged data traffic is almost not measurable in the grand scheme of things." or is that just more BS? To the individual, losing the royalties on 20,000 books might mean the difference between writing another book or not. While that may be small "in the grand scheme of things", it is not small to the individual.

"Now it is a competition between your high-value books (that apparently are not going to be published, due to lack of profitability) and what people are actually consuming en mass 24/7/365." Actually, had you read carefully, you would have noticed that I said that I would have stopped writing at the turn of the century if I was only motivated by profit. Actually, I written six books since 2000 and have another one coming out next year. The loss is not what I won't write, it's what all of the other very talented writers don't write because it's no longer worth the effort. Some of them write as a primary income source and they simply cannot exist with torrent sites, so they do something else. That's the real cost.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 4:36:47 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Jack,

I just love educated responses that use Bullshit as an argument. What could be more reliable?

Cost of Books - See: https://www.debt.org/students/the-true-cost-of-college/
If, for example, you are majoring in architecture or engineering, you may need computer programs that an English or Education major won’t need. The national average for this category in 2017 was $1,100, but the cost of books is soaring every year so count on it going up from 8%-10% from year-to-year.


image.png
As much as you like to flatter yourself about the high loss rate of books "stolen" via file sharing services (torrent is one type), this type of traffic is almost negligible. Most torrent type traffic is PORN content. Empirical data that I received from ISP traffic pattern analysis indicates that about 93% of the file sharing protocols (in action) carry tagged PORN data. eBook tagged data traffic is almost not measurable in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on changing the world. Now it is a competition between your high-value books (that apparently are not going to be published, due to lack of profitability) and what people are actually consuming en mass 24/7/365.

--Ron    N7FTZ



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:20 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
See below:
Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 1:48:25 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. Are you really saying that people only use torrent sites to preview books? Far and away most are using the site to get a free book and have no intention of paying for it regardless of its worth. To think otherwise is woefully naive. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever. What difference can it possibly make whether they keep a free download book or not?
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase. However,  if you buy a used copy, at least someone bought the book and the author was paid for that copy. If you rip off a copy or someone gives you a file that contains the book, my guess is that copy has never been paid for.;
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work. All of my work, including that in the Arduino Projects book is Open Source for both the hardware and software. So, in one sense I am paid for it, but in another I receive nothing for it. You're free to write what you want and disseminate it in whatever format you wish. However, publishers expect a return on their investment and I see nothing wrong with that.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)? There are many places where students can buy used books at reasonable prices. Perhaps one reason books are so expensive at university books stores is because publishers are getting ripped off by torrent sites. It could be a chicken-egg thing.
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality. Do you get to determine "fair price"? Or perhaps the costs of development, editing, printing, binding, marketing, distribution and other costs play a more important part in determining a fair price. How do you know what my time is worth? Hint: You don't have a clue.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books Bullshit.. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors. Agreed, and torrent sites play a significant role.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.

Ken Hansen
 

So textbooks cost $1K/year, tuition is $20K, and it's the TEXTBOOKS that are the problem?

Bullshit.

If textbooks were free, a year at university would decrease by 5%, or about the amount the average non-athlete student pays in sports-related fees on many colleges.

Want to lower textbook expenses? Tell professors to stop changing textbooks each year, let an ecosystem of used books develop around the campus. When I was in college (1985) I had a calculus book by a man named Anton, he 'revised' his textbook every couple years, rendering previous used editions worthless. Are there really sufficient advances in the field of Calculus 1 to justify rewriting the book every couple years? But this is curriculum-wide - why do Norton Anthologies if Early American Lit get revises every few years? The underlying body of literature is static - all the authors met their fate over a century ago, yet the textbooks keep being revised... etc.

Ken, N2VIP

On Aug 22, 2019, at 3:36 PM, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:

Jack,

I just love educated responses that use Bullshit as an argument. What could be more reliable?

Cost of Books - See: https://www.debt.org/students/the-true-cost-of-college/
If, for example, you are majoring in architecture or engineering, you may need computer programs that an English or Education major won’t need. The national average for this category in 2017 was $1,100, but the cost of books is soaring every year so count on it going up from 8%-10% from year-to-year.

Jerry Gaffke
 

There is a racket going on with college textbooks.
These days you can wind up spending $300 on a required book for a class.
And there's various schemes to discourage a used market, kickbacks to
encourage the powers that be to choose specific textbooks, etc
Costs can be way more than $1k/yr.

Not true everywhere. 
Some schools make a policy of of using freely available material where possible.
And even make it possible to get credit by "attending" class online.
Worth considering when shopping for a University.

Generally speaking, I find it best to keep my nose clean with respect to obeying the law.
If you feel a law is wrong enough that it needs breaking, then go for it.
That can at times be an important civic duty.
But don't be surprised if there are consequences.

Regarding the ARRL and their grip on those copyrights, that's their privilege.
They seem enough of a force for mostly good that it is worth putting up with (YMMV).
Though if I spent 6 months on a project that I wanted made easily available
to amateurs worldwide, publishing in QST or QEX would not be my first choice.

Jerry, KE7ER


On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 02:05 PM, Ken Hansen wrote:
So textbooks cost $1K/year, tuition is $20K, and it's the TEXTBOOKS that are the problem?
 

Gwen Patton
 

I took a course from the Mises Institute once on intellectual property. It wasn't until I was IN the class that I found out the professor was an IP contrarian. He didn't agree with copyright and intellectual property laws. I put up with his oh so libertarian claptrap for a couple of weeks, then told him I was dropping the course, because his opinion was that I didn't deserve anything for the effort I put into my own writing and artwork for my comic book and webcomic series.

People who go to THOSE lengths to justify stealing my work then trying to educate me as to why it wasn't really stealing are toads, and I told him so.

Gwen, NG3P

Arv Evans
 

CAREFUL!



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:36 PM Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:
Jack,

I just love educated responses that use Bullshit as an argument. What could be more reliable?

Cost of Books - See: https://www.debt.org/students/the-true-cost-of-college/
If, for example, you are majoring in architecture or engineering, you may need computer programs that an English or Education major won’t need. The national average for this category in 2017 was $1,100, but the cost of books is soaring every year so count on it going up from 8%-10% from year-to-year.


image.png
As much as you like to flatter yourself about the high loss rate of books "stolen" via file sharing services (torrent is one type), this type of traffic is almost negligible. Most torrent type traffic is PORN content. Empirical data that I received from ISP traffic pattern analysis indicates that about 93% of the file sharing protocols (in action) carry tagged PORN data. eBook tagged data traffic is almost not measurable in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck on changing the world. Now it is a competition between your high-value books (that apparently are not going to be published, due to lack of profitability) and what people are actually consuming en mass 24/7/365.

--Ron    N7FTZ



On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:20 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
See below:
Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 1:48:25 PM EDT, Dr. Flywheel <Dr.Flywheel@...> wrote:


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The real question is what works in real life. Here are a few points to think about for people who insist on living in a virtual world:
  1. Many people use torrents to download books, in order to preview their content. Are you really saying that people only use torrent sites to preview books? Far and away most are using the site to get a free book and have no intention of paying for it regardless of its worth. To think otherwise is woefully naive. This is due to the fact that public libraries are limited in their ability to purchase and keep all the books in the world in their limited physical space. Do not assume that if someone downloads your book, they actually keep it forever. What difference can it possibly make whether they keep a free download book or not?
  2. I like previewing books prior to purchase. I also like physical books and my house is filled with them. I always purchase my books at bottom dollar, either "pre-owned" or "old stock". I use eBay, Amazon, B&N, etc for my purchase. As an author, you will not see a dime coming back to you through my purchase. However,  if you buy a used copy, at least someone bought the book and the author was paid for that copy. If you rip off a copy or someone gives you a file that contains the book, my guess is that copy has never been paid for.;
  3. Publishing for FREE has never stopped me from doing just that. If you are using the Internet, if you are using an Intel-based PC, if you are using Linux, if you are using an Android smart phone, if you are using WiFi technology, than you are using code, tools, and documents that I authored and/or contributed to maintain. I have never seen a dime coming back to me for my contributions, neither do I expect remuneration or royalties for my work. All of my work, including that in the Arduino Projects book is Open Source for both the hardware and software. So, in one sense I am paid for it, but in another I receive nothing for it. You're free to write what you want and disseminate it in whatever format you wish. However, publishers expect a return on their investment and I see nothing wrong with that.
  4. Many publishers act as a Mafia to squeeze a significant $$ by guarding the gates to publishing and physical distribution. When I went to college, my books cost between $3 and $10 each (Dover Edition). What is the justification for charging between $100 and $300 for a book used for educating university students and then changing the book edition every year to prevent resale of books (recycling)? There are many places where students can buy used books at reasonable prices. Perhaps one reason books are so expensive at university books stores is because publishers are getting ripped off by torrent sites. It could be a chicken-egg thing.
  5. Limiting information flow to the public will never work in today's world. the capabilities are there to distribute and share information by electronic means. This levels the playing field for all participants. The capabilities are orders of magnitude stronger than any laws on the books, as well as the ability to enforce such laws. Authors are better off being benevolent (open source) or offer their products at an enticing and fair price, or ask for voluntary pay from the consumer. There are already many people who take such attitude and being successful at dealing with reality. Do you get to determine "fair price"? Or perhaps the costs of development, editing, printing, binding, marketing, distribution and other costs play a more important part in determining a fair price. How do you know what my time is worth? Hint: You don't have a clue.
  6. Student debt in the U.S.A is already $1.48 TRILLION. great part of that is attributed to the cost of books Bullshit.. Someone is getting rich in this system and typically it is not the authors. Agreed, and torrent sites play a significant role.
 The world is constantly changing and sticking to old guns does not pay off. I suggest to stop whining and get on with your regularly scheduled programming...

--Ron   N7FTZ

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:57 AM Jack Purdum via Groups.Io <jjpurdum=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is an issue that hits home for me. One of my publishing companies has 3 people who's only job is to shut down torrent sites that allow free downloads of their books. Two years ago, they closed down over 2,000 sites that were downloading copyright material. They estimate that for every book I sell, three are downloaded illegally. We've even had universities point their students to these sites. It's impossible to stop them because the capital costs are little more than the cost of getting a domain name.

True, I'm out the royalties lost, but that's not the real cost of downloading/copying copyright material...regardless of the country's laws about it. The real cost are the books that don't come to the market because authors now know it's simply not worth the effort. If I were in it just for the money, I would have stopped writing around the turn of the century. We've even had readers on this site give the URL's of where my books can be downloaded free of charge. Since there is no way to stop them, my attitude now is: If you illegally download the book and read it, and decide it was worth it, then buy a copy of the book. I doubt there are many who follow this plan, but what else can an author do? It's a rock-hard-place situation.

Jack, W8TEE

On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 11:38:17 AM EDT, Arv Evans <arvid.evans@...> wrote:


The issue of posting something that might be under copyright does come up fairly frequently.
When this happens a lot of bandwidth is usually taken by those who charge in to protect the
copyright or patent, and not much ever comes of it.  Most do not know, or do not want to
admit, that for over half of the world copyrights and patents are irrelevant and are not enforced.
This makes it difficult or impossible to police violations in those countries.   Posting protected
material on a global forum like the BITX20 group seems to be a gray area because the person
posting the material may be in one of the unenforceable areas but the post can be read by
persons located in an enforceable area.  Best we can do is to ask that you do not post protected
material, and to remove those posts when it happens. 

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 11:00 PM kh6sky <kh6sky@...> wrote:
I have asked for permission from the ARRL to post an article from the early 60's and they refused to grant.  I am not optimistic about anything recent.  I have noted that QST authors sometimes post their articles on their own websites, for which I suppose they have permission, but don't know if it would be a work-around to go though the author and ask him to post it here.