Topics

No output power on #v3


Kit Peters
 

Finally got my radio together after putting the new ribbon cable on and I have no output power. Where do I start looking? 


Reed N
 

Very first would be checking your power rails. If you can receive, that's a good first step. Next would be to measure the TX power lines when you try and transmit. If you don't get the relay click, then it could be wiring with the raduino. If you get the relay click and you get full power on the TX rail and see a jump in current draw (indicating the finals are working), then the next thing I'd try would be CW mode (assuming you already tried whistling in SSB mode) and see if you get any output that way.


Reed


Gordon Gibby
 

My first suggestion would be to study the circuit operation and schematic. Heathkit used to have a whole section teaching you that.  I think there are plenty of similar materials available for this kit.

In medical speak, that is the same as knowing the anatomy of the patient


Once you understand which part connects to which part, then you can logically begin to divide it out into sections and figure out where something went wrong.   Much better than sending the patient for a head CT when they complained of an ingrown toenail





On Oct 27, 2020, at 00:17, Reed N <greenkid336600+groupsio@...> wrote:

Very first would be checking your power rails. If you can receive, that's a good first step. Next would be to measure the TX power lines when you try and transmit. If you don't get the relay click, then it could be wiring with the raduino. If you get the relay click and you get full power on the TX rail and see a jump in current draw (indicating the finals are working), then the next thing I'd try would be CW mode (assuming you already tried whistling in SSB mode) and see if you get any output that way.


Reed


Curt
 

Kit

How are you testing output power? note pushing PTT button does not produce output on a ssb transmitter. Try putting a short piece of wire across cw input if you don't have a key yet.

Curt


Kit Peters
 

I'm testing by putting the radio in LSB mode, connecting a scope across a homemade "cantenna" dummy load, making some noise into a mic, and looking for the waveform to modulate.

Is it possible that I fried Q90 when I connected the two diodes across it?


On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:23 AM Curt via groups.io <wb8yyy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit

How are you testing output power? note pushing PTT button does not produce output on a ssb transmitter. Try putting a short piece of wire across cw input if you don't have a key yet.

Curt



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
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Kit Peters
 

The K1 pins? I'm not sure what you mean.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:11 AM Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:
Kit,
Did you connect the diodes on the K1 pins?  If so, then not likely.

73
Evan
AC9TU



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
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Evan Hand
 

Kit,
I was assuming that you installed the back to back diodes to protect Q90.  Those go on the K1 transmit/receive relay.  Here is a photo of my v4 board:


Where did you install the diodes?

73
Evan
AC9TU


Kit Peters
 

Ah, OK. I installed the diodes there.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:27 AM Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:
Kit,
I was assuming that you installed the back to back diodes to protect Q90.  Those go on the K1 transmit/receive relay.  Here is a photo of my v4 board:


Where did you install the diodes?

73
Evan
AC9TU



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
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Kit Peters
 

And it's unlikely to be the Arduino, right? B/C my UI works fine. I ask because before I replaced the ribbon cable there was some kind of pop and smoke when I turned on the radio, and the display went dark. But again, the display is fine now and I can select any frequency / band I like.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:43 AM Kit Peters via groups.io <popefelix=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ah, OK. I installed the diodes there.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:27 AM Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:
Kit,
I was assuming that you installed the back to back diodes to protect Q90.  Those go on the K1 transmit/receive relay.  Here is a photo of my v4 board:


Where did you install the diodes?

73
Evan
AC9TU



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
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Hello to any and all NSA, DEA, or other government or non-government agents reading this email.  Tell me about your life; I'll tell you about mine.



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
GPG public key fingerpint: D4FF AA62 AFEA 83D6 CC98 ACE5 6FAE 7E74 7F56 ED1D
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Evan Hand
 

Kit
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 11:54 AM, Kit Peters wrote:
And it's unlikely to be the Arduino, right? B/C my UI works fine. I ask because before I replaced the ribbon cable there was some kind of pop and smoke when I turned on the radio, and the display went dark. But again, the display is fine now and I can select any frequency / band I like.
From your description, I think that a 5volt line got shorted somewhere.  The LM7805 regulator has short circuit protection that shuts it down until you power cycle the device.

I would check the connections of your 5volt circuits to verify that nothing is harmed. 

As to the Nano, It should be OK.  The most susceptible parts are the I/O.  You can only tell if you have an issue is when something will not work when you try it.  since all of the functions except transmit power work as you describe it I do not believe that it is damaged.  

Verify the transmit power using CW, not SSB.  If CW works, then it is not Q90.

73
Evan
AC9TU


_Dave_ AD0B
 

Pops and smoking are a normal part of uBITX startups..












NOT!!!!!!!!!

--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


Evan Hand
 

Dave,
No one said that it was normal.  I was just explaining that there are built-in protections of the regulator that could explain the shutdown and then restart with the display.  That is also why I said to check the 5volt devices to verify proper operation.

I did not go into the obvious "look for overheating devices" instruction.  I believe that most would know that.

I must also say that I do not appreciate the sarcasm.  I AM ALWAYS open to suggestions and improvement opportunities.  I will try to take this as one of those and be sure to include the "not normal" comment in the future.

73
Evan
AC9TU


Bob Lunsford
 

Considering that the radio's boards are pretested and aligned, causing smoke and pops would have to be an accident or intentional. I got my new V6 yesterday at the Post Office (DHL sent the radio from the Cincinnati hub by USPS to my Post Offic) and within an hour of opening the box, it was a working radio on my bench. No Problem. No smoke, no pops. Nor did I expect anything like this when turning on the power. It's a simple plug-n-chug operation to assemble ... as long as the assembler uses a metric scale to make sure to use the proper (short) screws to mount the complete case.

I assembled nearly all the ham radio Heath kits and only had one diode with the cathode band on the wrong end and a screw with no threads. With uBITX, I don't even expect to find this.

Bob — KK5R

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020, 9:57:19 AM EDT, _Dave_ AD0B <davesters@...> wrote:


Pops and smoking are a normal part of uBITX startups..












NOT!!!!!!!!!

--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


_Dave_ AD0B
 

Hi Evan,
The comment was not directed at you but as information for the poster of the statement. 

I don't think that I can a recall a single instance where a pop and smoke left my equipment working.
--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


Evan Hand
 

Dave,
I would agree that there are very few times that the combination of pop and smoke did not indicate something failed.  The only time I can think of that it was not a part failure was when a whisker from a stranded wire shorted and poped/fried.  That wire had to be repaired, however, it did not take down any of the components, nor traces on the board.  It acted as a fuse.

Kit had been working on a wiring ribbon cable, so the possibility of the same thing happening is good.  I would strongly agree with you that the rig needs to be looked over very carefully for any signs of damage, and try to find the location of the smoke.  There is at least the potential for carbon or metal splatter that can cause other issues.

Thank you for the feedback.
73
Evan
AC9TU


Bob Lunsford
 

The only "pop and smoke" experience I ever had was when I bought a Swan 350 at a hamfest that was a "Sure, it's working!" radio so when I plugged it in at home, it sounded like a shotgun shell going off. The power supply caps had to be replaced.

Nothing like a PnS experience to add to one's bank of experience.

Bob — KK5R

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020, 1:31:29 PM EDT, _Dave_ AD0B <davesters@...> wrote:


Hi Evan,
The comment was not directed at you but as information for the poster of the statement. 

I don't think that I can a recall a single instance where a pop and smoke left my equipment working.
--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


Kit Peters
 

I haven't dug into this in depth, but I did test receive last night. Pumping 15 W into my loop with a borrowed Kenwood TS-2000 I was able to (faintly) hear my transmission in a dummy load. I suppose I could have stuck a piece of wire into a UHF connector and made a quickie vertical as well, but that was what occurred to me at the time. :)


Jerry Gaffke
 

Kit,

I would expect a transmission of 15W a short distance away to create a very strong signal in an unshielded uBitx.
Perhaps you also have a problem in receive, but for now I will assume that is not the case.
The fact that you receive any signal at all with the uBitx tuned to display the same frequency as your transmitter
suggests the receiver is mostly working.  You may have trouble where the diodes were added if that was done incorrectly.
I would suggest not doing mods until everything the stock rig is working properly.

When debugging the transmitter, I would start with CW mode as Even suggested in post 83195:
>  Verify the transmit power using CW, not SSB.
There is a lot less to go wrong when transmitting in CW mode.

Put a good dummy load on the antenna terminal, put the uBitx in CW mode, 
and press the CW key to transmit.  The DC voltage on both ends of R84 should be 12 volts
when transmitting, and PA-PWR into L9 should also be 12 volts DC.
Put your finger on the IRF510 heatsinks and the dummy load occasionally,
let up on the key for a few minutes if they get too warm.

Put a 6" piece of wire on the base of Q90 as an antenna, see if you can hear the transmit
signal on a nearby receiver when you hold the key down.


If the above steps check out, take DC voltage readings for the stages from Q90
on out through the IRF510's, compare to those on pages 13, 14, and 15 of this document:
   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBK-cdn4-9EunFHl2bXBSUnx1RFP9Z_f/edit
That is a fairly complete debug guide for the v3 uBitx.

Let us know how far you get.  If you need further help, let us know what
instruments you have available.  I assume you have a DVM.
Do you have access to a diode RF probe, or better yet an oscilloscope?

Good luck, this may prove to be educational.
If you can get help from a ham at a nearby club who has a bench full of instruments
and experience with troublshooting, that would help this process considerably.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 07:20 AM, Kit Peters wrote:
I haven't dug into this in depth, but I did test receive last night. Pumping 15 W into my loop with a borrowed Kenwood TS-2000 I was able to (faintly) hear my transmission in a dummy load. I suppose I could have stuck a piece of wire into a UHF connector and made a quickie vertical as well, but that was what occurred to me at the time. :)


Kit Peters
 

I'll check all that, thanks.

As for test equipment, I have both a DMM and an old oscilloscope.


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:56 AM Jerry Gaffke via groups.io <jgaffke=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit,

I would expect a transmission of 15W a short distance away to create a very strong signal in an unshielded uBitx.
Perhaps you also have a problem in receive, but for now I will assume that is not the case.
The fact that you receive any signal at all with the uBitx tuned to display the same frequency as your transmitter
suggests the receiver is mostly working.  You may have trouble where the diodes were added if that was done incorrectly.
I would suggest not doing mods until everything the stock rig is working properly.

When debugging the transmitter, I would start with CW mode as Even suggested in post 83195:
>  Verify the transmit power using CW, not SSB.
There is a lot less to go wrong when transmitting in CW mode.

Put a good dummy load on the antenna terminal, put the uBitx in CW mode, 
and press the CW key to transmit.  The DC voltage on both ends of R84 should be 12 volts
when transmitting, and PA-PWR into L9 should also be 12 volts DC.
Put your finger on the IRF510 heatsinks and the dummy load occasionally,
let up on the key for a few minutes if they get too warm.

Put a 6" piece of wire on the base of Q90 as an antenna, see if you can hear the transmit
signal on a nearby receiver when you hold the key down.


If the above steps check out, take DC voltage readings for the stages from Q90
on out through the IRF510's, compare to those on pages 13, 14, and 15 of this document:
   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBK-cdn4-9EunFHl2bXBSUnx1RFP9Z_f/edit
That is a fairly complete debug guide for the v3 uBitx.

Let us know how far you get.  If you need further help, let us know what
instruments you have available.  I assume you have a DVM.
Do you have access to a diode RF probe, or better yet an oscilloscope?

Good luck, this may prove to be educational.
If you can get help from a ham at a nearby club who has a bench full of instruments
and experience with troublshooting, that would help this process considerably.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 07:20 AM, Kit Peters wrote:
I haven't dug into this in depth, but I did test receive last night. Pumping 15 W into my loop with a borrowed Kenwood TS-2000 I was able to (faintly) hear my transmission in a dummy load. I suppose I could have stuck a piece of wire into a UHF connector and made a quickie vertical as well, but that was what occurred to me at the time. :)



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
GPG public key fingerpint: D4FF AA62 AFEA 83D6 CC98 ACE5 6FAE 7E74 7F56 ED1D
Hello to any and all NSA, DEA, or other government or non-government agents reading this email.  Tell me about your life; I'll tell you about mine.


Kit Peters
 

oh, and I removed the diodes.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:58 AM Kit Peters <popefelix@...> wrote:
I'll check all that, thanks.

As for test equipment, I have both a DMM and an old oscilloscope.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:56 AM Jerry Gaffke via groups.io <jgaffke=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit,

I would expect a transmission of 15W a short distance away to create a very strong signal in an unshielded uBitx.
Perhaps you also have a problem in receive, but for now I will assume that is not the case.
The fact that you receive any signal at all with the uBitx tuned to display the same frequency as your transmitter
suggests the receiver is mostly working.  You may have trouble where the diodes were added if that was done incorrectly.
I would suggest not doing mods until everything the stock rig is working properly.

When debugging the transmitter, I would start with CW mode as Even suggested in post 83195:
>  Verify the transmit power using CW, not SSB.
There is a lot less to go wrong when transmitting in CW mode.

Put a good dummy load on the antenna terminal, put the uBitx in CW mode, 
and press the CW key to transmit.  The DC voltage on both ends of R84 should be 12 volts
when transmitting, and PA-PWR into L9 should also be 12 volts DC.
Put your finger on the IRF510 heatsinks and the dummy load occasionally,
let up on the key for a few minutes if they get too warm.

Put a 6" piece of wire on the base of Q90 as an antenna, see if you can hear the transmit
signal on a nearby receiver when you hold the key down.


If the above steps check out, take DC voltage readings for the stages from Q90
on out through the IRF510's, compare to those on pages 13, 14, and 15 of this document:
   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBK-cdn4-9EunFHl2bXBSUnx1RFP9Z_f/edit
That is a fairly complete debug guide for the v3 uBitx.

Let us know how far you get.  If you need further help, let us know what
instruments you have available.  I assume you have a DVM.
Do you have access to a diode RF probe, or better yet an oscilloscope?

Good luck, this may prove to be educational.
If you can get help from a ham at a nearby club who has a bench full of instruments
and experience with troublshooting, that would help this process considerably.

Jerry, KE7ER




On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 07:20 AM, Kit Peters wrote:
I haven't dug into this in depth, but I did test receive last night. Pumping 15 W into my loop with a borrowed Kenwood TS-2000 I was able to (faintly) hear my transmission in a dummy load. I suppose I could have stuck a piece of wire into a UHF connector and made a quickie vertical as well, but that was what occurred to me at the time. :)



--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
GPG public key fingerpint: D4FF AA62 AFEA 83D6 CC98 ACE5 6FAE 7E74 7F56 ED1D
Hello to any and all NSA, DEA, or other government or non-government agents reading this email.  Tell me about your life; I'll tell you about mine.


--
Kit Peters, W0KEH
GPG public key fingerpint: D4FF AA62 AFEA 83D6 CC98 ACE5 6FAE 7E74 7F56 ED1D
Hello to any and all NSA, DEA, or other government or non-government agents reading this email.  Tell me about your life; I'll tell you about mine.