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BITX20 Duh-oo


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R


Bob Lunsford
 

Bill, first of all, earbuds are a no-no. They damage the ears. Any device that is so perfect a seal to outside sounds damages the ears. First to go are the high frequencies thus the need for "old" hams to turn up the treble and turn down the bass.

I use over-the-ear earphones. My favorite is one I got from Radio Shack about 1970. The earpads wore out and were replaced with foam rubber squares that I found that had a 3/4-in round hole in the center. Problem is it has a 1/4-in plug so use it on my FT-890 but use other of like manufacture for other radios.

The RST for one person is not necessarily going to be the same number for another person since as taste is in a person's mouth, the hearing is in each individual's ears and is not normally a group thing. As different people see a diamond in different shades of color, different people hear a concert with varying shades of meaning.

I go the contest route: If a guy has a good sounding, loud enough signal, he gets a 5X9 but if it's in the mud, it then gets a 5X5.

Bob — KK5R

On Thursday, October 29, 2020, 6:52:14 AM EDT, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote:


Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good
enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a
number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning
outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard*
value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no
conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons
as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with
"earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume
control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a
volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill  KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
> Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver
> AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based
> on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more
> accurate but still has too many variables.
>
> Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do
> not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are
> talking about readability.
>
> I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6
> does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator
> for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the
> ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or
> keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
>
> Bob — KK5R






 

On S meter readings on 80's rigs:

I would generalize from my years of fixing and aligning rigs that S9 = 50uV at the antenna.
S8 = -6db of 50uV and S7 = -12db of 50 uV... below S7 the readings are approx.
S9+20/40/60 are usually correct although some rigs were slightly different at +60.

50uV is my first check for S9, if not then a retune and alignment would follow.

Raj

At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Bob,

It's back to that volume control again. Earbuds allow me to run at a much lower volume. A strict interpretation of what you said about damage from using earbuds means that earbuds would damage our hearing even if they were never plugged in and merely in our ears. I will always challenge that. And my earbuds do not 'seal' my ear canal. They are not the expensive kind so maybe that explains the lack of a seal. On the other hand, my cans do seal my entire ear including my ear canal. Except for the cheapest ones I have.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 7:10 AM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Bill, first of all, earbuds are a no-no. They damage the ears. Any device that is so perfect a seal to outside sounds damages the ears. First to go are the high frequencies thus the need for "old" hams to turn up the treble and turn down the bass.
I use over-the-ear earphones. My favorite is one I got from Radio Shack about 1970. The earpads wore out and were replaced with foam rubber squares that I found that had a 3/4-in round hole in the center. Problem is it has a 1/4-in plug so use it on my FT-890 but use other of like manufacture for other radios.
The RST for one person is not necessarily going to be the same number for another person since as taste is in a person's mouth, the hearing is in each individual's ears and is not normally a group thing. As different people see a diamond in different shades of color, different people hear a concert with varying shades of meaning.
I go the contest route: If a guy has a good sounding, loud enough signal, he gets a 5X9 but if it's in the mud, it then gets a 5X5.
Bob — KK5R
On Thursday, October 29, 2020, 6:52:14 AM EDT, Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,
The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good
enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a
number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning
outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard*
value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no
conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.
I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons
as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with
"earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume
control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a
volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.
73,
Bill  KU8H
bark less - wag more
On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
> Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver
> AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based
> on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more
> accurate but still has too many variables.
>
> Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do
> not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are
> talking about readability.
>
> I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6
> does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator
> for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the
> ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or
> keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
>
> Bob — KK5R


Bill Cromwell
 

Hi Raj,

S9 = 50 uV across 50 ohms. In the wild we rarely (if ever) have 50 Ohms at the antenna terminals. So there goes the baby along with the bath water. I do not know how to have a QSO a while the radio is connected to a set of lab equipment in a lab. I have to operate in the 'wild'.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 7:48 AM, Raj vu2zap wrote:
On S meter readings on 80's rigs:
I would generalize from my years of fixing and aligning rigs that S9 = 50uV at the antenna.
S8 = -6db of 50uV and S7 = -12db of 50 uV... below S7 the readings are approx.
S9+20/40/60 are usually correct although some rigs were slightly different at +60.
50uV is my first check for S9, if not then a retune and alignment would follow.
Raj
At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R


 

Bill,

I completely disagree.

Whatever signal is present at the antenna jack is what the meter shows.

Raj

At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Raj,

S9 = 50 uV across 50 ohms. In the wild we rarely (if ever) have 50 Ohms at the antenna terminals. So there goes the baby along with the bath water. I do not know how to have a QSO a while the radio is connected to a set of lab equipment in a lab. I have to operate in the 'wild'.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 7:48 AM, Raj vu2zap wrote:
On S meter readings on 80's rigs:
I would generalize from my years of fixing and aligning rigs that S9 = 50uV at the antenna.
S8 = -6db of 50uV and S7 = -12db of 50 uV... below S7 the readings are approx.
S9+20/40/60 are usually correct although some rigs were slightly different at +60.
50uV is my first check for S9, if not then a retune and alignment would follow.
Raj
At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R




Bill Cromwell
 

Hi,

I respect that you see things differently:)

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 11:10 AM, Raj vu2zap wrote:
Bill,
I completely disagree.
Whatever signal is present at the antenna jack is what the meter shows.
Raj
At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Raj,

S9 = 50 uV across 50 ohms. In the wild we rarely (if ever) have 50 Ohms at the antenna terminals. So there goes the baby along with the bath water. I do not know how to have a QSO a while the radio is connected to a set of lab equipment in a lab. I have to operate in the 'wild'.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 7:48 AM, Raj vu2zap wrote:
On S meter readings on 80's rigs:
I would generalize from my years of fixing and aligning rigs that S9 = 50uV at the antenna.
S8 = -6db of 50uV and S7 = -12db of 50 uV... below S7 the readings are approx.
S9+20/40/60 are usually correct although some rigs were slightly different at +60.
50uV is my first check for S9, if not then a retune and alignment would follow.
Raj
At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R




MadRadioModder
 

Thats the objective of an “S” meter. (“S” stands for signal strength and its in db or mv). 


MRM

 


On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:10 AM, Raj vu2zap <rajendrakumargg@...> wrote:

Bill,

I completely disagree.

Whatever signal is present at the antenna jack is what  the meter shows.

Raj

At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Raj,

S9 = 50 uV across 50 ohms. In the wild we rarely (if ever) have 50 Ohms at the antenna terminals. So there goes the baby along with the bath water. I do not know how to have a QSO a while the radio is connected to a set of lab equipment in a lab. I have to operate in the 'wild'.

73,

Bill  KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/29/20 7:48 AM, Raj vu2zap wrote:
On S meter readings on 80's rigs:
I would generalize from my years of fixing and aligning rigs that S9 = 50uV at the antenna.
S8 = -6db of 50uV and S7 = -12db of 50 uV... below S7 the readings are approx.
S9+20/40/60 are usually correct although some rigs were slightly different at +60.
50uV is my first check for S9, if not then a retune and alignment would follow.
Raj
At 29/10/2020, you wrote:
Hi Bob,

The 'S' value in the RST does have some value but an estimate is good enough (and really all we can do). It is hard enough to pin down a number in a well equipped lab. A radio operating 'in the wild' (meaning outside of lab conditions) is just too uncertain. It is not a *hard* value. "Ten feet" is a good example of a hard value. There are no conditions where a ten foot pole can fit in a nine foot space.

I have pulled the cans off or partially off my ears for the same reasons as you and those old people (whoever they are). How do you do that with "earbuds"? A two-diode limiter works with those too. Use the volume control to keep out of the distortion levels. That's why it is called a volume *control*. Or just let your ears bleed. It can literally happen.

73,

Bill  KU8H

bark less - wag more

On 10/28/20 5:40 PM, Bob Lunsford via groups.io wrote:
Everything is relative. One's S-meter reading depends on the receiver AND the antenna. One too many variables. A Volume Unit reading is based on voltage across a standard resister value. The VU reading may be more accurate but still has too many variables.
Personally, I do not need an S-meter and unless someone asks me, I do not give a Signal Strength report. It means little to me when we are talking about readability.
I can come up with a circuit that may warm someone's heart but my V6 does not need an S-meter. HOWEVER, the same circuit can be an operator for the AGC circuit. Old time operators used to pull the "cans" off the ears and put them over the temple to either adjust the audio level or keep excessive volume from waking them up. Been there, done that...
Bob — KK5R














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