Topics

Antenna Question #antennas #v3


Christopher Miller
 

Hello,

Here are the results of the install. I believe this is a proper install. 20 meters dipole .

I’m really happy they let me drill a hole in the wall. It’s filled with foam to seal it just like at my dads fm transmitter.


MadRadioModder
 

Yeah now get the actual dipole legs away from the building a bit otherwise it’s not gonna work too well.

 

 

From: BITX20@groups.io [mailto:BITX20@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 4:56 PM
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Antenna Question #antennas #v3

 

Hello,

 

Here are the results of the install. I believe this is a proper install. 20 meters dipole .

 

I’m really happy they let me drill a hole in the wall. It’s filled with foam to seal it just like at my dads fm transmitter.


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--

…_. _._


Gordon Gibby
 

It looks like you have tied the antenna next to existing wires.   That is very likely going to cause a problem.  You never want to couple RF into existing wiring if you can help it, and that is going to cause your impedance to be haywire.  

Perhaps those aren’t wires, but ideally you would get your antenna 10 feet or more away from those wires exclamation


On Mar 15, 2020, at 19:06, MadRadioModder <madradiomodder@...> wrote:



Yeah now get the actual dipole legs away from the building a bit otherwise it’s not gonna work too well.

 

 

From: BITX20@groups.io [mailto:BITX20@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 4:56 PM
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Antenna Question #antennas #v3

 

Hello,

 

Here are the results of the install. I believe this is a proper install. 20 meters dipole .

 

I’m really happy they let me drill a hole in the wall. It’s filled with foam to seal it just like at my dads fm transmitter.

<image001.jpg>

<image002.jpg>

<image003.jpg>


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--

…_. _._


 

Hey Christopher,

Looking at the google maps view of your apartment complex, it looks like there are three nice tall trees on the south side of the building.   A good way to get the antenna up would be to use one of those trees to support one end of the antenna, and then anchor the other end somewhere on the roof.  Then the coax should drop down onto the roof and it could be routed to your entry.  Make sure to put a coax lightning arrestor on before it gets to your entry.  The arrestor could be grounded to an existing grounded structure on the roof.

I was in Tucson for a few months -- I think they get thunderstorms there sometimes ;-)

73,


Mark


Christopher Miller
 

With all due respect guys, the owner of the property was angry we had agreed to set it up at all. The fact that they drilled a hole in my wall, let me hide the antenna, and do this at all in a slum apartment is a win. Yes I understand it’s not ideal, but it is well hidden and the best I can do for now.

The maintenance manager happens to love cb radio so he was kind enough to let me drill a hole in the wall and fill the hole with foam after installing coax.

Chris


Christopher Miller
 

Fully set up sans tuner.

Chris


 

Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


Christopher Miller
 

Ok guys and ladies, I am an extra. I know what you are saying about my setup is true. However, while we were setting it up and I had it hung by rope the owner called the maintenance manager to complain. We had to hide it as best we could. I’m willing to take the hit if it works. Please stop emailing me about it because I can’t change it.

Chris


Christopher Miller
 

I don’t have a choice.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:58 AM Joel Caulkins/N6ALT <caulktel@...> wrote:
Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


 

Hi,

That's too bad.  I would have thought the maintenance guy had the approval of the owner.  Anyway, do you have any idea what those wires it's zip tied to are for?  How is your reception for noise?  Checked the SWR yet?

From the picture, it looks like you might have a balcony?  If you do and the dipole doesn't work out, you can always try hamsticks.

Are people emailing you directly or are you talking about emails you receive from groups.io?  You can disable the latter in the settings.  That's what I do, I just use the web interface only.

Cheers and 73,



Mark


Gordon Gibby
 

Well, we are a little perplexed, because we thought you had come here for advice.    If you don't actually want any, then that changes things.

So this is NOT advice.   I'm just telling you what I would do in that same situation.   Please cover your ears.    I would get very fine wire, something on the order of #28 or #32, and paint it to match the exterior against which it will lay.   Then I would find some way to secure it in some inverted vee method drooping down in some way from all those other wires, in such a fashion that it creates SPACE from them, and remains virtually invisible.    I'd use some kind of unobtrusive dot of glue or thumbtack or something in the exterior to hold the end.    Or I might run #32 wire out to a tree with a THREAD holding it.   Invisible.   I've got #14 house wire up and it is darned hard to see if you don't know what to look for.     

End of non-advice.  

But I didn't give any advice.   I once gave a lecture on 14 different kinds of antennas for a similar sort of situation.    

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:39 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
I don’t have a choice.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:58 AM Joel Caulkins/N6ALT <caulktel@...> wrote:
Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


Christopher Miller
 

Gordon, please don’t misunderstand. My point is that I no longer have a choice. I’m lucky to have a 20 meter dipole at all. Advice is fine, but I cannot change the antenna now. 

With regards to the owner being crazy, he is probably doing meth. Like I said, I got a hole drilled and an antenna hung. I’m going to get a qrp tuner next. 

Chris KF4FTR


Arv Evans
 

Chris

Sometimes you just have to ignore the nay-sayers and go with you have available.

Arv
_-_


On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 11:08 PM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
With all due respect guys, the owner of the property was angry we had agreed to set it up at all. The fact that they drilled a hole in my wall, let me hide the antenna, and do this at all in a slum apartment is a win. Yes I understand it’s not ideal, but it is well hidden and the best I can do for now.

The maintenance manager happens to love cb radio so he was kind enough to let me drill a hole in the wall and fill the hole with foam after installing coax.

Chris


Lawrence Galea
 

If I remember correctly you have a long feeder to the 20M dipole.
You can use it as an end fed wire with a tuner on lower bands.
Nothing to lose if you try it
Lawrence

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:36 PM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
Gordon, please don’t misunderstand. My point is that I no longer have a choice. I’m lucky to have a 20 meter dipole at all. Advice is fine, but I cannot change the antenna now. 

With regards to the owner being crazy, he is probably doing meth. Like I said, I got a hole drilled and an antenna hung. I’m going to get a qrp tuner next. 

Chris KF4FTR


Lawrence Galea
 

I used to have a dipole for 160 metres using thin wire supported throughout its length with fishing nylon line for years and you wouldn't be able to see it if you did not know it was there and you looked hard.
As they say, necessity is the mother of invention

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:02 PM Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Well, we are a little perplexed, because we thought you had come here for advice.    If you don't actually want any, then that changes things.

So this is NOT advice.   I'm just telling you what I would do in that same situation.   Please cover your ears.    I would get very fine wire, something on the order of #28 or #32, and paint it to match the exterior against which it will lay.   Then I would find some way to secure it in some inverted vee method drooping down in some way from all those other wires, in such a fashion that it creates SPACE from them, and remains virtually invisible.    I'd use some kind of unobtrusive dot of glue or thumbtack or something in the exterior to hold the end.    Or I might run #32 wire out to a tree with a THREAD holding it.   Invisible.   I've got #14 house wire up and it is darned hard to see if you don't know what to look for.     

End of non-advice.  

But I didn't give any advice.   I once gave a lecture on 14 different kinds of antennas for a similar sort of situation.    

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:39 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
I don’t have a choice.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:58 AM Joel Caulkins/N6ALT <caulktel@...> wrote:
Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


Robert D. Bowers
 

I remember reading several accounts of people hooking a short wire to their bedsprings, and loading them with a tuner and making contacts - demonstrating amateur radio to a friend (accounts from the 50s and 60s, maybe earlier).  There are many tricks that can be used in such a tough situation to get out (at least to some degree).  A tuner (especially a pi or short-wire tuner) can be easily made, even with home-made materials with a little ingenuity (and if you're in a situation where a landlord INSISTS on the right to "regularly" inspect your living quarters, they can even made to look reasonably attractive.

I think the dipole, even if it's in a less-than-ideal situation, should not be a problem whatsoever (although it might require a tuner for a decent match).  If you're not running a lot of power, the problem with interference should also be almost non-existent.  I knew a person who just threw a 40 meter dipole along the hedge outside his window (unnoticeable) - and got out great, so much so that people were going to see what would happen if they did that at their place, and he certainly was not running anything CLOSE to a full kilowatt!  (There are also a couple of articles about tough situations I've read - where people did things like putting a long stainless or brass screw into a living tree trunk and loading up the tree! As I remember, they did NOT come out in April.)

Anyway, good luck to those in that sort of situation (or who cannot afford the latest and greatest) - and good contacts!  (That's the beauty of QRP, if you can keep from being stomped on by the 'full gallons".)

Bob
N4FBZ


On 3/16/20 2:57 PM, Lawrence Galea wrote:
If I remember correctly you have a long feeder to the 20M dipole.
You can use it as an end fed wire with a tuner on lower bands.
Nothing to lose if you try it
Lawrence

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 7:36 PM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
Gordon, please don’t misunderstand. My point is that I no longer have a choice. I’m lucky to have a 20 meter dipole at all. Advice is fine, but I cannot change the antenna now. 

With regards to the owner being crazy, he is probably doing meth. Like I said, I got a hole drilled and an antenna hung. I’m going to get a qrp tuner next. 

Chris KF4FTR


Christopher Miller
 

The walkway isn’t long enough.

We did a good job of hiding the dipole and you won’t be able to see where the coax enters soon.

I just want to get on 20 and maybe 40.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 12:02 PM Lawrence Galea <9h1avlaw@...> wrote:
I used to have a dipole for 160 metres using thin wire supported throughout its length with fishing nylon line for years and you wouldn't be able to see it if you did not know it was there and you looked hard.
As they say, necessity is the mother of invention

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:02 PM Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:
Well, we are a little perplexed, because we thought you had come here for advice.    If you don't actually want any, then that changes things.

So this is NOT advice.   I'm just telling you what I would do in that same situation.   Please cover your ears.    I would get very fine wire, something on the order of #28 or #32, and paint it to match the exterior against which it will lay.   Then I would find some way to secure it in some inverted vee method drooping down in some way from all those other wires, in such a fashion that it creates SPACE from them, and remains virtually invisible.    I'd use some kind of unobtrusive dot of glue or thumbtack or something in the exterior to hold the end.    Or I might run #32 wire out to a tree with a THREAD holding it.   Invisible.   I've got #14 house wire up and it is darned hard to see if you don't know what to look for.     

End of non-advice.  

But I didn't give any advice.   I once gave a lecture on 14 different kinds of antennas for a similar sort of situation.    

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:39 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
I don’t have a choice.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:58 AM Joel Caulkins/N6ALT <caulktel@...> wrote:
Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


 

The walkway isn't long enough for what?


ajparent1/kb1gmx <kb1gmx@...>
 

My first 160M antenna was at a height of one inch (25.4mm)!

It was the K3MT grasswire laid out in the back yard , no way to support
it in the air at that time as a 250Ft dipole is 100Ft longer that property wide
and available trees.  It wasn't a band burner but it did work as predicted
by the author and it was amazingly quiet.  Raised to 6Ft the height of an
average fence it worked noticeably better.  So the top of a wood or the
current fashion plastic fences would work.  I used #24 stranded wire 
from CAT5 cable, hard to see.  It was a decent local antenna for 80
and 40 too compared to the higher dipoles.

Anything can work.

Allison
---------------------------------
No direct email, it goes to bit bucket due address harvesting in groups.IO


Christopher Miller
 

Thank You for the support. I will try for my first contact tonight as the sun starts setting.

Chris