Topics

Antenna Question #antennas #v3


Christopher Miller
 

Yeah, I should have said yesterday not last night. I indicated it was day later in the reply but didn’t want to spam to correct myself lol.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 3:37 PM _Dave_ AD0B <davesters@...> wrote:
 20m will be most active during the day Relatively dead at night. 
--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


_Dave_ AD0B
 

 20m will be most active during the day Relatively dead at night. 
--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


Christopher Miller
 

I checked last night to see if it was deaf, I could clearly hear wwv on 10 during the day. I’m behind in school work and have to wait a couple of weeks, but I will get it going the best I can. I may try to buy a ham stick as suggested even if I have to use it inside. I have to stimulate the economy after all.

Chris 

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:57 PM AF7XT <kopcicle@...> wrote:
Still "tuned in " Chris. One step at a time :-)


AF7XT
 

Still "tuned in " Chris. One step at a time :-)


Christopher Miller
 

I have been a little sick and the tuner isn’t here yet. I will try in an hour or so..

Chris 


Jim Willis
 

“Allison, an RF engineer on this site has always pointed out to get the most wire you can, as far away from obstructions as you can, as high as you can....and she is giving very very wise advice.   Then, match to it, however you can!”

 

Hear, hear!

 

 

From: BITX20@groups.io <BITX20@groups.io> On Behalf Of Gordon Gibby
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 18:22
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Antenna Question #antennas #v3

 

McRuss -- fantastic idea!!!!    I saw the 17 foot telescoping stainless steel MFJ whip at the Orlando hamfest and that looks VERY interesting, and of course the venerable HAM STICKS are also quite long.

 

Getting LENGTH IN THE CLEAR raises your "radiation resistance" and thus reduces your losses dramatically.  

 

In microwaves they speak of the "aperture" of an antenna --- the effective area of radio waves that it intercepts and whose energy it extracts to turn into femtowatts of power heading for your receiver input.   You want the largest "aperture" reasonably possible --- because antennas in generaal are RECIPROCAL.    To get a large output signal, you need to have a good sized APERTURE.    Smaller antennas are often described as "quiet".   THat makes sense --- they just don't pick up a lot of signal!!!   Larger antennas may pick up more galactic and thunderstorm static.....but they also GET OUT better!

 

Running a tuner to the 17 foot vertical temporarily clamped somewhere would give you some reasonable amount of metal in the sky to load into.   The incredibly high input impedance of a halfwave resonant end fed (couple thousand ohms) allows easy feeding with a simple 49:1 balun (sold commercially or put your own together with 3-4 turns, and 21-28 turns on the secondary on an FT-240-43 or FT-140-43 core) -- and an almost invisible wire can be your antenna.   Forget running coax out...just insulate the tiny wire and try to run it out a WOODEN or non-conductive slit under a window or door to the outside and outward with invisible fishing line holding it away from the building.    I've used that type of antenna very successfully from a BUS STOP to make winlink connections and do research.     Of course you can also use any standard tuner made for long wires also....use "ground" as the other terminal (I wouldn't put it past me to conect to the green wire of the power system since on a high rise, you will never get to real "ground".   )  

 

Allison, an RF engineer on this site has always pointed out to get the most wire you can, as far away from obstructions as you can, as high as you can....and she is giving very very wise advice.   Then, match to it, however you can!

 

73

 

Cabin-fever Gordon KX4Z

 

 

 

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:02 PM McRuss via Groups.Io <wtrrtw=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

As I'm confined (not quarantined) to a condo unit, I thought a mag loop would be my answer.  Maybe it was the one I bought and maybe it was defective but I could never get the SWRs down low enough to use it.  They are super sensitive to tune also.  My ..03  My answer turned out to be a 'Super Antenna' vertical, mounted on the railing of my balcony (CCR's prohibit it from "protruding from the balcony" so it does not).  I ran the two radials into two downspouts for the gutter and they are hidden and the antenna works great.  Sometime next week I hope to have my V6 up and running on said antenna!
--
Newbie
K5FJR


_Dave_ AD0B
 

Have you made any contacts yet?
--
73
Dave
ADOB
Raduino bracket and Ham_Made_Keys


bill wright
 

I use the house gutter with a 4x1 balun.  You do need a solid ground connection
Bill de KD5YK

On Wednesday, March 18, 2020, 07:37:44 AM CDT, Kevin Cripps <ve3kac@...> wrote:


Do you have access to a rain gutter I used to rain gutter once
 and it works surprisingly well

On Tue., Mar. 17, 2020, 6:12 p.m. Christopher Miller, <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
Guys, I live in a really bad neighborhood. The balcony is a walkway open to every one.

I can’t just instal whatever I want. I am going to buy a qrp tuner and see what I can do. Hopefully I can get out with my dipole.

Chris 


Kevin Cripps
 

Do you have access to a rain gutter I used to rain gutter once
 and it works surprisingly well

On Tue., Mar. 17, 2020, 6:12 p.m. Christopher Miller, <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
Guys, I live in a really bad neighborhood. The balcony is a walkway open to every one.

I can’t just instal whatever I want. I am going to buy a qrp tuner and see what I can do. Hopefully I can get out with my dipole.

Chris 


David Wilcox <Djwilcox01@...>
 

I have a Cyclone kit unbuilt that I will part with.  If anyone is interested contact me in 2 weeks when I am back home in Michigan.

Dave K8WPE  djwilcox01 At  aol.com

David J. Wilcox K8WPE’s iPad

On Mar 17, 2020, at 10:32 PM, Curt via Groups.Io <wb8yyy@...> wrote:

Chris

Let's see what that 20m dipole will do. Keep the other advice in reserve, including any opportunity for portable operation parks etc. Now if that adjacent cable weren't used anymore maybe it could come down.

Bill et al

QSK. I still have my hw16, but it wasn't used this winter. Its qsk is remarkable for a simple c.1970 beginner receiver. I know Bill has a pfr3 with decent qsk. The QCX is amazing with its hardware direct conversion,  image canceling receiver. I just built the companion PA for it. DSP some of the commercial rigs are amazing, yes some use dedicated processing not a pc. Certainly there are hobbist examples, the world awaits the qsx. My nicest simple rig might be this Cyclone from 4stateqrp.

73 curt


Curt
 

Chris

Let's see what that 20m dipole will do. Keep the other advice in reserve, including any opportunity for portable operation parks etc. Now if that adjacent cable weren't used anymore maybe it could come down.

Bill et al

QSK. I still have my hw16, but it wasn't used this winter. Its qsk is remarkable for a simple c.1970 beginner receiver. I know Bill has a pfr3 with decent qsk. The QCX is amazing with its hardware direct conversion,  image canceling receiver. I just built the companion PA for it. DSP some of the commercial rigs are amazing, yes some use dedicated processing not a pc. Certainly there are hobbist examples, the world awaits the qsx. My nicest simple rig might be this Cyclone from 4stateqrp.

73 curt


Jim Willis
 

Hear, hear...

Best regards,

Jim

On Mar 17, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:


McRuss -- fantastic idea!!!!    I saw the 17 foot telescoping stainless steel MFJ whip at the Orlando hamfest and that looks VERY interesting, and of course the venerable HAM STICKS are also quite long.

Getting LENGTH IN THE CLEAR raises your "radiation resistance" and thus reduces your losses dramatically.  

In microwaves they speak of the "aperture" of an antenna --- the effective area of radio waves that it intercepts and whose energy it extracts to turn into femtowatts of power heading for your receiver input.   You want the largest "aperture" reasonably possible --- because antennas in generaal are RECIPROCAL.    To get a large output signal, you need to have a good sized APERTURE.    Smaller antennas are often described as "quiet".   THat makes sense --- they just don't pick up a lot of signal!!!   Larger antennas may pick up more galactic and thunderstorm static.....but they also GET OUT better!

Running a tuner to the 17 foot vertical temporarily clamped somewhere would give you some reasonable amount of metal in the sky to load into.   The incredibly high input impedance of a halfwave resonant end fed (couple thousand ohms) allows easy feeding with a simple 49:1 balun (sold commercially or put your own together with 3-4 turns, and 21-28 turns on the secondary on an FT-240-43 or FT-140-43 core) -- and an almost invisible wire can be your antenna.   Forget running coax out...just insulate the tiny wire and try to run it out a WOODEN or non-conductive slit under a window or door to the outside and outward with invisible fishing line holding it away from the building.    I've used that type of antenna very successfully from a BUS STOP to make winlink connections and do research.     Of course you can also use any standard tuner made for long wires also....use "ground" as the other terminal (I wouldn't put it past me to conect to the green wire of the power system since on a high rise, you will never get to real "ground".   )  

Allison, an RF engineer on this site has always pointed out to get the most wire you can, as far away from obstructions as you can, as high as you can....and she is giving very very wise advice.   Then, match to it, however you can!

73

Cabin-fever Gordon KX4Z



On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:02 PM McRuss via Groups.Io <wtrrtw=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
As I'm confined (not quarantined) to a condo unit, I thought a mag loop would be my answer.  Maybe it was the one I bought and maybe it was defective but I could never get the SWRs down low enough to use it.  They are super sensitive to tune also.  My ..03  My answer turned out to be a 'Super Antenna' vertical, mounted on the railing of my balcony (CCR's prohibit it from "protruding from the balcony" so it does not).  I ran the two radials into two downspouts for the gutter and they are hidden and the antenna works great.  Sometime next week I hope to have my V6 up and running on said antenna!
--
Newbie
K5FJR


Gordon Gibby
 

McRuss -- fantastic idea!!!!    I saw the 17 foot telescoping stainless steel MFJ whip at the Orlando hamfest and that looks VERY interesting, and of course the venerable HAM STICKS are also quite long.

Getting LENGTH IN THE CLEAR raises your "radiation resistance" and thus reduces your losses dramatically.  

In microwaves they speak of the "aperture" of an antenna --- the effective area of radio waves that it intercepts and whose energy it extracts to turn into femtowatts of power heading for your receiver input.   You want the largest "aperture" reasonably possible --- because antennas in generaal are RECIPROCAL.    To get a large output signal, you need to have a good sized APERTURE.    Smaller antennas are often described as "quiet".   THat makes sense --- they just don't pick up a lot of signal!!!   Larger antennas may pick up more galactic and thunderstorm static.....but they also GET OUT better!

Running a tuner to the 17 foot vertical temporarily clamped somewhere would give you some reasonable amount of metal in the sky to load into.   The incredibly high input impedance of a halfwave resonant end fed (couple thousand ohms) allows easy feeding with a simple 49:1 balun (sold commercially or put your own together with 3-4 turns, and 21-28 turns on the secondary on an FT-240-43 or FT-140-43 core) -- and an almost invisible wire can be your antenna.   Forget running coax out...just insulate the tiny wire and try to run it out a WOODEN or non-conductive slit under a window or door to the outside and outward with invisible fishing line holding it away from the building.    I've used that type of antenna very successfully from a BUS STOP to make winlink connections and do research.     Of course you can also use any standard tuner made for long wires also....use "ground" as the other terminal (I wouldn't put it past me to conect to the green wire of the power system since on a high rise, you will never get to real "ground".   )  

Allison, an RF engineer on this site has always pointed out to get the most wire you can, as far away from obstructions as you can, as high as you can....and she is giving very very wise advice.   Then, match to it, however you can!

73

Cabin-fever Gordon KX4Z



On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:02 PM McRuss via Groups.Io <wtrrtw=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
As I'm confined (not quarantined) to a condo unit, I thought a mag loop would be my answer.  Maybe it was the one I bought and maybe it was defective but I could never get the SWRs down low enough to use it.  They are super sensitive to tune also.  My ..03  My answer turned out to be a 'Super Antenna' vertical, mounted on the railing of my balcony (CCR's prohibit it from "protruding from the balcony" so it does not).  I ran the two radials into two downspouts for the gutter and they are hidden and the antenna works great.  Sometime next week I hope to have my V6 up and running on said antenna!
--
Newbie
K5FJR


Christopher Miller
 

Guys, I live in a really bad neighborhood. The balcony is a walkway open to every one.

I can’t just instal whatever I want. I am going to buy a qrp tuner and see what I can do. Hopefully I can get out with my dipole.

Chris 


McRuss
 

As I'm confined (not quarantined) to a condo unit, I thought a mag loop would be my answer.  Maybe it was the one I bought and maybe it was defective but I could never get the SWRs down low enough to use it.  They are super sensitive to tune also.  My ..03  My answer turned out to be a 'Super Antenna' vertical, mounted on the railing of my balcony (CCR's prohibit it from "protruding from the balcony" so it does not).  I ran the two radials into two downspouts for the gutter and they are hidden and the antenna works great.  Sometime next week I hope to have my V6 up and running on said antenna!
--
Newbie
K5FJR


Christopher Miller
 

The good news is I at 30 feet. My second choice is mag loop. Chris.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 3:38 AM Bill Peggy <bnpmunson@...> wrote:
Please check out magnetic loop antennas they are an excellent fit for use with our radios. You can use them indoors at ground level and they are directional so you can pull out a noise source.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 4:43 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
My landlord had a fit with us installing a 20 meter half wavelength dipole. There is no way a 160 meter dipole is going in here. We can laugh all we want but I’m sick with a virus, got an antenna installed in an apartment, and I’m working on a masters degree.

Please let up and let me get a tuner.

Chris


Bill Peggy <bnpmunson@...>
 

Please check out magnetic loop antennas they are an excellent fit for use with our radios. You can use them indoors at ground level and they are directional so you can pull out a noise source.


On Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 4:43 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
My landlord had a fit with us installing a 20 meter half wavelength dipole. There is no way a 160 meter dipole is going in here. We can laugh all we want but I’m sick with a virus, got an antenna installed in an apartment, and I’m working on a masters degree.

Please let up and let me get a tuner.

Chris


Christopher Miller
 

My landlord had a fit with us installing a 20 meter half wavelength dipole. There is no way a 160 meter dipole is going in here. We can laugh all we want but I’m sick with a virus, got an antenna installed in an apartment, and I’m working on a masters degree.

Please let up and let me get a tuner.

Chris


Steve & Judy Levine <sandjlevine@...>
 

🤣


Steve


On Mar 16, 2020, at 13:14, Gordon Gibby <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:


Well, we are a little perplexed, because we thought you had come here for advice.    If you don't actually want any, then that changes things.

So this is NOT advice.   I'm just telling you what I would do in that same situation.   Please cover your ears.    I would get very fine wire, something on the order of #28 or #32, and paint it to match the exterior against which it will lay.   Then I would find some way to secure it in some inverted vee method drooping down in some way from all those other wires, in such a fashion that it creates SPACE from them, and remains virtually invisible.    I'd use some kind of unobtrusive dot of glue or thumbtack or something in the exterior to hold the end.    Or I might run #32 wire out to a tree with a THREAD holding it.   Invisible.   I've got #14 house wire up and it is darned hard to see if you don't know what to look for.     

End of non-advice.  

But I didn't give any advice.   I once gave a lecture on 14 different kinds of antennas for a similar sort of situation.    

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 11:39 AM Christopher Miller <djmalak2k6@...> wrote:
I don’t have a choice.

Chris

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 6:58 AM Joel Caulkins/N6ALT <caulktel@...> wrote:
Looks good Chris,

How well does it receive? I'm with Gordon and Mark, you will no doubt have problems with that setup do to the fact that the legs of your dipole are tied up to other wires. The SWR will probably be high. My dipole is out in the middle of my yard, yet when I put up a end fed half wave next to my house it actually changed the resonant point of the dipole that was a good 15 feet away, so other things and wires will cause problems. Maybe after the dust settles you could make some changes to your antenna.

Joel
N6ALT


Wayne Leake
 

 I guess he means the walkway is not long enough for a 160 meter antenna.
 Although I have a fairly large plot of land, I had to bend one end of the 160 part of my dipole. And, using what is either #14 or #16 stranded wire, you could barely see it against the sky, as another mentioned. I also bent the other end slightly, only because I don't have a pole near one corner of my lots.
 But, he evidently no longer wants advice.
 I need to redo a lot of my dipoles.
 2 parts are down and one part is partly down. Need to use some good nylon, I think, cord I have, to support the ends. 
 I may use some rope I have that is similar to what I use to be able to raise and lower the W2AU balun at the center of my dipole. Might be a good time to move the tripod and mast I am using anyway, so I can center it more on my place, and add a section of mast to get it about 7 or 8 feet higher. At least that was my plan.
 Wayne WA2YNE



On Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 2:39 PM Mark - N7EKU <n7eku@...> wrote:
The walkway isn't long enough for what?