Topics

DIGITAL FREQUENCY READOUT

MONEYSMITH
 

MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A ONE KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED, IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?
WILLIAM

Mark Pilant
 

Hi William.

MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A ONE
KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED,
IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?
The short answer, maybe. (I apologize if you already know the following;
but for those who do not...)

Digital frequency readout is only as accurate as the calibration of the sending
and receiving stations. (I had a recent thread going about the Si5351
calibration.) I'm assuming you have done the recommended calibration of your
uBitx.

Even with a calibrated uBitx, there is likely to be some drift due to thermal
heating from any number of sources: the components themselves, ambient air
temperature, etc. This being said, it is probably unlikely you would see
a 1 KHz drift.

The other possibility is the sending station is "off", they may say they are
transmitting on 7.150 MHz, but in reality they are on 7.149 MHz. Without
knowing the calibration of the sending station, it is really impossible to
know for certain.

In the "good ol' days" of analog dials, you simply tuned for the best reception
and went with that. (This is one of the reasons, back then, operating near
the band edges was not recommended :-) I do it all the time with my Collins
rigs: get close with the dial and then interpolate the frequency.

My suggestion, if you are confident of your uBitx's calibration, is not to
worry about it and enjoy the contact :-)

73

- Mark N1VQW

MONEYSMITH
 

THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT. I HAVE TEST THE OFFSET WITH KNOWN STATIONS

THAT ARE ON FREQUENCY AND MY DISPLAY IS ALWAYS 1 KHZ LOW FROM THE ACTUAL.  I SUPPOSE THE 1 KHZ OFFSET WORKS

FOR CW AND SSB AND MAY BE THE REASON FOR THE STRANGE THING.


On 11/8/2018 6:46 AM, Mark Pilant wrote:
Hi William.

MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A ONE
KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED,
IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?
The short answer, maybe.  (I apologize if you already know the following;
but for those who do not...)

Digital frequency readout is only as accurate as the calibration of the sending
and receiving stations.  (I had a recent thread going about the Si5351
calibration.)  I'm assuming you have done the recommended calibration of your
uBitx.

Even with a calibrated uBitx, there is likely to be some drift due to thermal
heating from any number of sources: the components themselves, ambient air
temperature, etc.  This being said, it is probably unlikely you would see
a 1 KHz drift.

The other possibility is the sending station is "off", they may say they are
transmitting on 7.150 MHz, but in reality they are on 7.149 MHz. Without
knowing the calibration of the sending station, it is really impossible to
know for certain.

In the "good ol' days" of analog dials, you simply tuned for the best reception
and went with that.  (This is one of the reasons, back then, operating near
the band edges was not recommended :-)  I do it all the time with my Collins
rigs: get close with the dial and then interpolate the frequency.

My suggestion, if you are confident of your uBitx's calibration, is not to
worry about it and enjoy the contact :-)

73

- Mark  N1VQW



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MONEYSMITH
 

THIS IS WHAT  I SEE WHEN LISTENING TO 7.128

WILLIAM W4NFR



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [BITX20] DIGITAL FREQUENCY READOUT
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:19:45 -0800
From: MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...>
To: BITX20@groups.io


THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT. I HAVE TEST THE OFFSET WITH KNOWN STATIONS

THAT ARE ON FREQUENCY AND MY DISPLAY IS ALWAYS 1 KHZ LOW FROM THE ACTUAL.  I SUPPOSE THE 1 KHZ OFFSET WORKS

FOR CW AND SSB AND MAY BE THE REASON FOR THE STRANGE THING.


On 11/8/2018 6:46 AM, Mark Pilant wrote:
Hi William.

> MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A ONE
> KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED,
> IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?

The short answer, maybe.  (I apologize if you already know the following;
but for those who do not...)

Digital frequency readout is only as accurate as the calibration of the sending
and receiving stations.  (I had a recent thread going about the Si5351
calibration.)  I'm assuming you have done the recommended calibration of your
uBitx.

Even with a calibrated uBitx, there is likely to be some drift due to thermal
heating from any number of sources: the components themselves, ambient air
temperature, etc.  This being said, it is probably unlikely you would see
a 1 KHz drift.

The other possibility is the sending station is "off", they may say they are
transmitting on 7.150 MHz, but in reality they are on 7.149 MHz. Without
knowing the calibration of the sending station, it is really impossible to
know for certain.

In the "good ol' days" of analog dials, you simply tuned for the best reception
and went with that.  (This is one of the reasons, back then, operating near
the band edges was not recommended :-)  I do it all the time with my Collins
rigs: get close with the dial and then interpolate the frequency.

My suggestion, if you are confident of your uBitx's calibration, is not to
worry about it and enjoy the contact :-)

73

- Mark  N1VQW






Virus-free. www.avg.com

Vince Vielhaber
 

Did you check the 25MHz calibration of the si5351? If that's off, everything will be.

Also, what is the box above your uBitx (the one with the display that has PWR:0 SWR: 0.00 and RF: 0.0)?

Vince.

On 11/08/2018 11:22 AM, MONEYSMITH wrote:
THIS IS WHAT I SEE WHEN LISTENING TO 7.128

WILLIAM W4NFR



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [BITX20] DIGITAL FREQUENCY READOUT
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:19:45 -0800
From: MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...>
To: BITX20@groups.io



THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT. I HAVE TEST
THE OFFSET WITH KNOWN STATIONS

THAT ARE ON FREQUENCY AND MY DISPLAY IS ALWAYS 1 KHZ LOW FROM THE
ACTUAL. I SUPPOSE THE 1 KHZ OFFSET WORKS

FOR CW AND SSB AND MAY BE THE REASON FOR THE STRANGE THING.


On 11/8/2018 6:46 AM, Mark Pilant wrote:
Hi William.

MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A ONE
KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED,
IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?
The short answer, maybe. (I apologize if you already know the following;
but for those who do not...)

Digital frequency readout is only as accurate as the calibration of
the sending
and receiving stations. (I had a recent thread going about the Si5351
calibration.) I'm assuming you have done the recommended calibration
of your
uBitx.

Even with a calibrated uBitx, there is likely to be some drift due to
thermal
heating from any number of sources: the components themselves, ambient air
temperature, etc. This being said, it is probably unlikely you would see
a 1 KHz drift.

The other possibility is the sending station is "off", they may say
they are
transmitting on 7.150 MHz, but in reality they are on 7.149 MHz. Without
knowing the calibration of the sending station, it is really impossible to
know for certain.

In the "good ol' days" of analog dials, you simply tuned for the best
reception
and went with that. (This is one of the reasons, back then, operating
near
the band edges was not recommended :-) I do it all the time with my
Collins
rigs: get close with the dial and then interpolate the frequency.

My suggestion, if you are confident of your uBitx's calibration, is not to
worry about it and enjoy the contact :-)

73

- Mark N1VQW




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N5KBP
 

You need to calibrate the VFO.

--
N5KBP

MONEYSMITH
 

THE BOX ABOVE THE uBITX IS MY HB DIGITAL WATT METER AND SWR BRIDGE. THANKS FOR THE REPLY.

W4NFR

On 11/8/2018 1:41 PM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Did you check the 25MHz calibration of the si5351?  If that's off, everything will be.

Also, what is the box above your uBitx (the one with the display that has PWR:0 SWR: 0.00 and RF: 0.0)?

Vince.


On 11/08/2018 11:22 AM, MONEYSMITH wrote:
THIS IS WHAT  I SEE WHEN LISTENING TO 7.128

WILLIAM W4NFR



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:     Re: [BITX20] DIGITAL FREQUENCY READOUT
Date:     Thu, 8 Nov 2018 08:19:45 -0800
From:     MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...>
To:     BITX20@groups.io



THANK YOU FOR THE COMMENTS. I HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH IT. I HAVE TEST
THE OFFSET WITH KNOWN STATIONS

THAT ARE ON FREQUENCY AND MY DISPLAY IS ALWAYS 1 KHZ LOW FROM THE
ACTUAL.  I SUPPOSE THE 1 KHZ OFFSET WORKS

FOR CW AND SSB AND MAY BE THE REASON FOR THE STRANGE THING.


On 11/8/2018 6:46 AM, Mark Pilant wrote:
Hi William.

MAYBE I AM MISSING SOMETHING, BUT ARE ALL uBITX V4.3 RADIOS HAVE A
ONE
KHZ LOW READOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAVE A STATION ON 7.150 SELECTED,
IT READS OUT 7.149 FOR CLEAR RECEPTION. IS THIS NORMAL?
The short answer, maybe.  (I apologize if you already know the following;
but for those who do not...)

Digital frequency readout is only as accurate as the calibration of
the sending
and receiving stations.  (I had a recent thread going about the Si5351
calibration.)  I'm assuming you have done the recommended calibration
of your
uBitx.

Even with a calibrated uBitx, there is likely to be some drift due to
thermal
heating from any number of sources: the components themselves, ambient air
temperature, etc.  This being said, it is probably unlikely you would see
a 1 KHz drift.

The other possibility is the sending station is "off", they may say
they are
transmitting on 7.150 MHz, but in reality they are on 7.149 MHz. Without
knowing the calibration of the sending station, it is really impossible to
know for certain.

In the "good ol' days" of analog dials, you simply tuned for the best
reception
and went with that.  (This is one of the reasons, back then, operating
near
the band edges was not recommended :-)  I do it all the time with my
Collins
rigs: get close with the dial and then interpolate the frequency.

My suggestion, if you are confident of your uBitx's calibration, is not to
worry about it and enjoy the contact :-)

73

- Mark  N1VQW




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RCC WB5YYM
 

Being 1khz off is not "normal". It needs master calibration adjusted,  NOT BFO CALIBRATION. Mine is hardly ever 10 cycles off. 

MONEYSMITH
 

i must have a bad 25 mhz crystal? i will try to get closer to 25 mhz and see if that does the trick.


On 11/8/2018 5:19 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
Being 1khz off is not "normal". It needs master calibration adjusted,  NOT BFO CALIBRATION. Mine is hardly ever 10 cycles off. 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

RCC WB5YYM
 

The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html

MONEYSMITH
 

I OPENED UP MY uBITX  AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html



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MVS Sarma
 

OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a  photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
 vu3zmv


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX  AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html



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MONEYSMITH
 

HERE IS A PHOTO OF BOARD AND CRYSTAL.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 9:57 AM, Mvs Sarma wrote:
OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a  photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
 vu3zmv

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX  AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html



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Evan Hand
 

That looks like an Arduino Nano board, not the Raduino in a uBitx. I checked one of my spares and noted what could be taken as 20 J stamped in the crystal, though I thought the Nano was clocked at 16 mHz.I opened my second pack of three, they were stamped ZOG as far as I could tell with a bright light and magnifying lens.  That is some mighty small print.

When I checked on line the top end for the ATMega328p is 20 mHz, so it could be a 20 mHz crystal.

Here are pictures of a Raduino board with the ATMega328p Nano plugged in.

ajparent1/kb1gmx
 

Are you sure that in not the crystal for the CH340 USB to serial?

All the Nanos I have the MPU crystal is on the front (side where the atmel MEGA328P many legged chip is).

The likely cause of the 1khz offset is likely either BFO incorrectly set, or cumulative error in the math.
From memory the frequencies calculated and displayed are based on 5351 output frequencies and
would match the Zero beat frequency (if cal in correct) and do mot match the filter center channel
frequency.

Allison

Evan Hand
 

Allison is correct as usual, on further inspection, there is another crystal on the other side of the Nano board.  I can not read the stamped information on the units that I have, even worse that the CH340 crystal.

Still, not the source of the frequency offset error.

Arv Evans
 

Bill W4NFR

The picture you provided is the back side of an Arduino Nano board.  The crystals on this PCB
have nothing to do with the transmitting frequency of your transceiver.  The SI5351a frequency
synthesizer is a small 10-pin MSOP IC, or 20-pin QFN IC.  It should be clearly labeled on the
top as an Si5351A device.  Do you have a picture of the Raduino board with its Si5351A chip
and crystal?

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

HERE IS A PHOTO OF BOARD AND CRYSTAL.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 9:57 AM, Mvs Sarma wrote:
OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a  photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
 vu3zmv

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX  AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html



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Vince Vielhaber
 

To see the 25MHz xtal on mine I had to pull the display.

Vince.

On 11/09/2018 02:42 PM, Arv Evans wrote:
Bill W4NFR

The picture you provided is the back side of an Arduino Nano board. The
crystals on this PCB
have nothing to do with the transmitting frequency of your transceiver.
The SI5351a frequency
synthesizer is a small 10-pin MSOP IC, or 20-pin QFN IC. It should be
clearly labeled on the
top as an Si5351A device. Do you have a picture of the Raduino board
with its Si5351A chip
and crystal?

Arv K7HKL
_._


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...
<mailto:w4nfr@...>> wrote:

HERE IS A PHOTO OF BOARD AND CRYSTAL.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 9:57 AM, Mvs Sarma wrote:
OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
vu3zmv

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...
<mailto:w4nfr@...>> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE
CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad"
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html


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Gordon Gibby <ggibby@...>
 

look in your software and see what frequency is set for the crystal.
use a script that puts the oscillator right on a known frequency (best to use the crystal frequency)
calculate how far off it is, calculte the real crystal frequency
adjust your software.

or use the calibration method specific to the firmware you have chosen, if you aren't able to do the above.

All mine have been 3-4 kilohertz off from the crystals "stated"' frequency. Putting in the correct constant for the effective true oscillation frequency of the crystal clock is a huge step toward having accurate frequencies. Then set your BFO if needed.

This is really a short-kit and you have to apply some of your "ham-smarts" to make things work correctly.
Because you studied and passed a ham radio license exam, you're one of the few people who are enabled to make such changes to your own amateur radio gear! Take advantage and develop your knowledge and skills!!!

Gordon


________________________________________
From: BITX20@groups.io <BITX20@groups.io> on behalf of Vince Vielhaber <vev@...>
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2018 2:55 PM
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] DIGITAL FREQUENCY READOUT

To see the 25MHz xtal on mine I had to pull the display.

Vince.



On 11/09/2018 02:42 PM, Arv Evans wrote:
Bill W4NFR

The picture you provided is the back side of an Arduino Nano board. The
crystals on this PCB
have nothing to do with the transmitting frequency of your transceiver.
The SI5351a frequency
synthesizer is a small 10-pin MSOP IC, or 20-pin QFN IC. It should be
clearly labeled on the
top as an Si5351A device. Do you have a picture of the Raduino board
with its Si5351A chip
and crystal?

Arv K7HKL
_._


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...
<mailto:w4nfr@...>> wrote:

HERE IS A PHOTO OF BOARD AND CRYSTAL.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 9:57 AM, Mvs Sarma wrote:
OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
vu3zmv

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...
<mailto:w4nfr@...>> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE
CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad"
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.hamskey.com_2018_05_frequency-2Dadjustment-2Dof-2Dubitx-2Dsi5351.html&d=DwICaQ&c=pZJPUDQ3SB9JplYbifm4nt2lEVG5pWx2KikqINpWlZM&r=3ELgZgmTnPzGsfvQxkd1S_2NGLYM8sHTxVCQKFxhVXQ&m=mAUii3YaxPtywhZnzMLlmMvPiPtMo5OwMNFv6xTOoAo&s=Kc0Z75Apkcl8tA9B-xNE9Ip0f0Sgpei-_xfrvVKO9r0&e=


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MONEYSMITH
 

THIS BOARD HAS A MEGA328P CHIP. I HAVE NO INFORMATION ON THE BOARD.

I FOUND NO SI5351A CHIP?

PHOTOS ATTACHED.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 11:42 AM, Arv Evans wrote:
Bill W4NFR

The picture you provided is the back side of an Arduino Nano board.  The crystals on this PCB
have nothing to do with the transmitting frequency of your transceiver.  The SI5351a frequency
synthesizer is a small 10-pin MSOP IC, or 20-pin QFN IC.  It should be clearly labeled on the
top as an Si5351A device.  Do you have a picture of the Raduino board with its Si5351A chip
and crystal?

Arv  K7HKL
_._


On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 11:20 AM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

HERE IS A PHOTO OF BOARD AND CRYSTAL.

W4NFR

On 11/9/2018 9:57 AM, Mvs Sarma wrote:
OMG. acidentally crept in perhaps .
could you please share a  photo please, !!!!!

regards
sarma
 vu3zmv

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:50 PM MONEYSMITH <w4nfr@...> wrote:

I OPENED UP MY uBITX  AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE S1535A BOARD. THE CRYSTAL HAS 20.0 STAMPED ON IT INSTEAD OF 25.0 MHZ?

On 11/8/2018 5:59 PM, RCC WB5YYM wrote:
The crystal is not "bad" 
http://www.hamskey.com/2018/05/frequency-adjustment-of-ubitx-si5351.html



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