Date   
Re: full rig power control unit

Michael Hagen
 

Lt Spice is a circuit simulator.  Not for Layout of PCBs.  Use one of the online PCB programs folks have been discussing here on the group.  Look back through the posts on PCB Layout Software.  Any of them will require a learning curve.

For instance, that circuit uses some small SCRs.  Not a real popular part, you might get to make the Model (s).

There is a schematic model and its matching PCB model.  Start with the schematic program and create a nice schematic before going to PCB.  It will transfer its connections (netlist) to you PCB.   It will find many mistakes (inconsistancies between schematic and layout).  If you are real careful, you can make PCBs that are correct the first time!

PCB layout is Really Fun!  Better than crossword puzzles.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP


On 3/1/2018 4:33 AM, Walter wrote:
If I wranted to build a circuit like this one is there a software to help me layout a perfboard for the circuit.  I have LTSpice but I don't see anything to layout a perf board in it. It just may be that I don't know where that feature is in the software.
--
73, W9KJO
Walter

-- 
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID  "MotDog@..."
Mike@...

Re: smoke

richard stafford
 

Raj,
I believe the issue is the relay.
Voltage in at U1 is 0, both transmit and receive.
Q16 collector voltage is 1.75 receive and 0.6 transmit.
I am going to try to substitute an Omron G5V-2-DC12.
Thanks,
Richard

On Feb 27, 2018, at 19:37, Raj vu2zap <@Raj> wrote:

Start by checking voltages and somewhere where it is low or dropping off will give you a clue.
Check for components running really hot.

Since you mention TX side tone fading off, check the audio amp voltage..

I suspect that you power supply is limiting voltage/current due to some short.

Raj

At 27/02/2018, you wrote:
GM all:
My bitx40 initially functioned well with all CW modifications except for initial problems with relay activating with each key closure, despite speed. Tx-Rx initially to pin 15 along with cw carrier, as per text. Changed connections according to photos (Tx-Rx D7 at pin 16, carrier D6 at pin 15 and side-tone to D5 pin 14). All seemed fine, then smoke. No visible damage. Now transmit output is down to about 1 watt, receive audio present but very soft despite full AF gain, and side tone volume on transmit is initially at the usual volume but fades to the same low receive volume after a couple of seconds. Power at the antenna stays at about a watt.
Went through Farhan’s trouble shooting; no audible change when touching antenna input. Toroids look ok.
Great rig, and despite these issues I wouldn’t trade it for anything else, except perhaps my HT 37 and Drake 2B.
Thanks in advance for your help. Great site as well, by the way.
Richard
KD0NPM


Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

Jerry Gaffke
 

That's good news.

You've addressed the most obvious way in which it might fail,
though perhaps what causes it to fail is not quite that simple.

I wonder if hfsignals has stuffed the same part into all rigs thus far,
or has perhaps been switching between manufacturers,  

Jerry


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 04:05 am, Raj vu2zap wrote:
Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got bad/defective/BY chips..

Re: U1 fried

Bill KC5SB
 

I ordered mine from eBay - plan to use the socket this time.  Should arrive today.  Still have to wait for my R75 replacement though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-STMicroelectronics-TDA2822M-TDA2822-Sockets-Dual-Audio-Amplifier-New-IC/292172486301?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Re: full rig power control unit

Vince Vielhaber
 

Will any of these packages that have been mentioned do automatic routing? Or are you required to do all the runs manually?

Vince.

On 03/01/2018 10:12 AM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Lt Spice is a circuit simulator. Not for Layout of PCBs. Use one of
the online PCB programs folks have been discussing here on the group.
Look back through the posts on PCB Layout Software. Any of them will
require a learning curve.

For instance, that circuit uses some small SCRs. Not a real popular
part, you might get to make the Model (s).

There is a schematic model and its matching PCB model. Start with the
schematic program and create a nice schematic before going to PCB. It
will transfer its connections (netlist) to you PCB. It will find many
mistakes (inconsistancies between schematic and layout). If you are
real careful, you can make PCBs that are correct the first time!

PCB layout is Really Fun! Better than crossword puzzles.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP


On 3/1/2018 4:33 AM, Walter wrote:
If I wranted to build a circuit like this one is there a software to
help me layout a perfboard for the circuit. I have LTSpice but I
don't see anything to layout a perf board in it. It just may be that I
don't know where that feature is in the software.
--
73, W9KJO
Walter
--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID "MotDog@..."
Mike@...

Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

Joe Puma
 

Thanks for taking one for the team Raj. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

On Mar 1, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <@Raj> wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.




Re: U1 fried

Rick Price
 

My brother-in-law and I each have a radio that we received last week,
ordered 12-25-17. Speaker and amp chip have worked great with no heat unitl
last night. Last evening he turned his radio on and the TDA got very hot
and started smoking for no reason at all. Current went up to almost 1 amp in
receive as it got hot. Beginning to believe there is a batch of bad chips.
Already ordered several replacements and sockets. I am going to try the
speaker lead 4 ohm resistor in mine before it goes.

Rick
KN4AIE

Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

w7hd.rh <w7hd.rh@...>
 

I suspect the 2A limit on his power supply saved the chip!

Ron W7HD

On 03/01/2018 10:00 AM, Joe Puma wrote:
Thanks for taking one for the team Raj. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
On Mar 1, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <@Raj> wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.




--
W7HD - NAQCC#7587 OMISS#9898 KX3#6966 LinuxUser#415320

Re: U1 fried

Vince Vielhaber
 

Is it too late to get the mfgr and date code from that bad chip?

Vince.

On 03/01/2018 12:02 PM, Rick Price wrote:
My brother-in-law and I each have a radio that we received last week,
ordered 12-25-17. Speaker and amp chip have worked great with no heat unitl
last night. Last evening he turned his radio on and the TDA got very hot
and started smoking for no reason at all. Current went up to almost 1 amp in
receive as it got hot. Beginning to believe there is a batch of bad chips.
Already ordered several replacements and sockets. I am going to try the
speaker lead 4 ohm resistor in mine before it goes.

Rick
KN4AIE


Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

Vince Vielhaber
 

The chip is only rated for 15 volts. Is it possible that the ones that are experiencing smoke are also getting more than 13.8v? Possibly a spike?

Vince.

On 03/01/2018 12:02 PM, w7hd.rh wrote:
I suspect the 2A limit on his power supply saved the chip!

Ron W7HD


On 03/01/2018 10:00 AM, Joe Puma wrote:
Thanks for taking one for the team Raj. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
On Mar 1, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <@Raj>
wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind
even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip
blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this
volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got
bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.




Re: U1 fried

Rick Price
 

I'll have him save it as he is taking it out of the board as I write.  Don't know if the writing is still legible.
Rick

Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

Gary Shriver
 

I’m no engineer here but could that be to the 2A current of your power supply? Maybe the others are running a 20amp supply. Just a thought..
73-Gary

On Mar 1, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <@Raj> wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.




Re: full rig power control unit

Michael Hagen
 

Vince,

I have been laying out PCBs for nearly 30 Years.  I have used just a few.  They are really a learning curve.

There are some really expensive packages that I have not used (Mentor?).  I would put little faith if they claim great auto-routing?

You might get results with an auto router, I never have.  I have watched it put traces down until it gets in a corner.

Then it "Rips Up and tries again", kind of sadistic to watch!

If you had lots of space on the PCB, maybe let it go, and then  finish it manually.

The real secret is to really spend time on a good schematic.  And when the Design Check says "you got problems",

you better heed the warning and fix the problems. 

73's

Mike, WA6ISP



On 3/1/2018 8:58 AM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Will any of these packages that have been mentioned do automatic routing?  Or are you required to do all the runs manually?

Vince.



On 03/01/2018 10:12 AM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Lt Spice is a circuit simulator.  Not for Layout of PCBs.  Use one of
the online PCB programs folks have been discussing here on the group.
Look back through the posts on PCB Layout Software.  Any of them will
require a learning curve.

For instance, that circuit uses some small SCRs.  Not a real popular
part, you might get to make the Model (s).

There is a schematic model and its matching PCB model.  Start with the
schematic program and create a nice schematic before going to PCB.  It
will transfer its connections (netlist) to you PCB.   It will find many
mistakes (inconsistancies between schematic and layout).  If you are
real careful, you can make PCBs that are correct the first time!

PCB layout is Really Fun!  Better than crossword puzzles.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP


On 3/1/2018 4:33 AM, Walter wrote:
If I wranted to build a circuit like this one is there a software to
help me layout a perfboard for the circuit.  I have LTSpice but I
don't see anything to layout a perf board in it. It just may be that I
don't know where that feature is in the software.
--
73, W9KJO
Walter

--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID  "MotDog@..."
Mike@...




-- 
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID  "MotDog@..."
Mike@...

Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

csmithuk0@...
 

Hi all,

Just a note on the TDA2822. It doesn't specify it has any kind of short circuit protection in it and looking at the schematic on the datasheet, it doesn't. On non-power opamps you tend to see small series resistors in the output chain which limit the total current the IC can deliver and stop it from exploding. This reduces power gain a little bit so on LM386 / TDA2822 they just don't exist. YMMV but if you short it, it'll probably blow up. If it doesn't, that might actually be the bad amplifier.

As for the cause of the failure, I've had a couple of (cheap no brand) coupling capacitors go short in the past. These drag the amplifier output down to ground which blows up the amp pretty quickly. Worth checking your capacitors before you stick another IC in there and watch that explode as well.

And another one: cheap 3.5mm sockets. Sometimes the contact positioning is terrible or gets mangled pretty quickly and the output can be shorted by just inserting a plug or turning it on. Again, boom! Check your 3.5mm socket for shorts.

I doubt that the IC would die if you overvolted it a little bit. There's usually a pretty big margin of error included. 

Incidentally I had an LM386 quite happily emitting a stream of smoke while working absolutely perfectly, well for a while. Not sure what happened there! Sometimes you get a dud.

On 1 March 2018 at 17:09, Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:
The chip is only rated for 15 volts.  Is it possible that the ones that are experiencing smoke are also getting more than 13.8v?   Possibly a spike?

Vince.

On 03/01/2018 12:02 PM, w7hd.rh wrote:
I suspect the 2A limit on his power supply saved the chip!

Ron W7HD


On 03/01/2018 10:00 AM, Joe Puma wrote:
Thanks for taking one for the team Raj.  👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
On Mar 1, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <rajendrakumargg@...>
wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind
even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip
blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this
volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got
bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.









--
  Michigan VHF Corp.   http://www.nobucks.net/   http://www.CDupe.com/
                          http://www.metalworkingfun.com




Re: full rig power control unit

Vince Vielhaber
 

Yeah that's kinda what I thought. I have a double sided board I'm working on that's only about an inch by an inch and a half and has 3 ICs on it. One sits under another larger one. Having a bit of trouble keeping my wits on this one.

Thanks!
Vince.

On 03/01/2018 12:23 PM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Vince,

I have been laying out PCBs for nearly 30 Years. I have used just a
few. They are really a learning curve.

There are some really expensive packages that I have not used
(Mentor?). I would put little faith if they claim great auto-routing?

You might get results with an auto router, I never have. I have watched
it put traces down until it gets in a corner.

Then it "Rips Up and tries again", kind of sadistic to watch!

If you had lots of space on the PCB, maybe let it go, and then finish
it manually.

The real secret is to really spend time on a good schematic. And when
the Design Check says "you got problems",

you better heed the warning and fix the problems.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP



On 3/1/2018 8:58 AM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Will any of these packages that have been mentioned do automatic
routing? Or are you required to do all the runs manually?

Vince.



On 03/01/2018 10:12 AM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Lt Spice is a circuit simulator. Not for Layout of PCBs. Use one of
the online PCB programs folks have been discussing here on the group.
Look back through the posts on PCB Layout Software. Any of them will
require a learning curve.

For instance, that circuit uses some small SCRs. Not a real popular
part, you might get to make the Model (s).

There is a schematic model and its matching PCB model. Start with the
schematic program and create a nice schematic before going to PCB. It
will transfer its connections (netlist) to you PCB. It will find many
mistakes (inconsistancies between schematic and layout). If you are
real careful, you can make PCBs that are correct the first time!

PCB layout is Really Fun! Better than crossword puzzles.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP


On 3/1/2018 4:33 AM, Walter wrote:
If I wranted to build a circuit like this one is there a software to
help me layout a perfboard for the circuit. I have LTSpice but I
don't see anything to layout a perf board in it. It just may be that I
don't know where that feature is in the software.
--
73, W9KJO
Walter
--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID "MotDog@..."
Mike@...

--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID "MotDog@..."
Mike@...

Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

M Garza <mgarza896@...>
 

Just curious if any of the rigs with blown chips had a regulator just for the board?  I am running a 19v laptop power supply and a 12v regulator for the board.

Marco - KG5PRT 

On Mar 1, 2018 11:33 AM, "Chris Smith" <csmithuk0@...> wrote:
Hi all,

Just a note on the TDA2822. It doesn't specify it has any kind of short circuit protection in it and looking at the schematic on the datasheet, it doesn't. On non-power opamps you tend to see small series resistors in the output chain which limit the total current the IC can deliver and stop it from exploding. This reduces power gain a little bit so on LM386 / TDA2822 they just don't exist. YMMV but if you short it, it'll probably blow up. If it doesn't, that might actually be the bad amplifier.

As for the cause of the failure, I've had a couple of (cheap no brand) coupling capacitors go short in the past. These drag the amplifier output down to ground which blows up the amp pretty quickly. Worth checking your capacitors before you stick another IC in there and watch that explode as well.

And another one: cheap 3.5mm sockets. Sometimes the contact positioning is terrible or gets mangled pretty quickly and the output can be shorted by just inserting a plug or turning it on. Again, boom! Check your 3.5mm socket for shorts.

I doubt that the IC would die if you overvolted it a little bit. There's usually a pretty big margin of error included. 

Incidentally I had an LM386 quite happily emitting a stream of smoke while working absolutely perfectly, well for a while. Not sure what happened there! Sometimes you get a dud.

--
73, M6XTG Chris


On 1 March 2018 at 17:09, Vince Vielhaber <vev@...> wrote:
The chip is only rated for 15 volts.  Is it possible that the ones that are experiencing smoke are also getting more than 13.8v?   Possibly a spike?

Vince.

On 03/01/2018 12:02 PM, w7hd.rh wrote:
I suspect the 2A limit on his power supply saved the chip!

Ron W7HD


On 03/01/2018 10:00 AM, Joe Puma wrote:
Thanks for taking one for the team Raj.  👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
On Mar 1, 2018, at 7:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <rajendrakumargg@...>
wrote:


Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind
even with the chip running very hot,
I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip
blows.

Power supply 13.6V
Current limit 2A

Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this
volume I directly shorted the wires
at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.

No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got
bad/defective/BY chips..

Cheers

--
Raj, vu2zap
Bengaluru, South India.









--
  Michigan VHF Corp.   http://www.nobucks.net/   http://www.CDupe.com/
                          http://www.metalworkingfun.com




Re: TDA2822 ill treatment test!

a.vision
 

Eh



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Gary Shriver <gshriver@...>
Date: 01/03/2018 17:13 (GMT+00:00)
To: BITX20@groups.io
Subject: Re: [BITX20] TDA2822 ill treatment test!

I’m no engineer here but could that be to the 2A current of your power supply?  Maybe the others are running a 20amp supply.  Just a thought..
73-Gary
> On Mar 1, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Raj vu2zap <rajendrakumargg@...> wrote:
>
>
> Having used TDA2822 for decades and never had a failure of any kind even with the chip running very hot,
> I got this urge to short my uBitx audio output and see it the chip blows.
>
> Power supply 13.6V
> Current limit 2A
>
> Touching the volume control leads produces a loud 50Hz hum. At this volume I directly shorted the wires
> at the EP jack. The chip got mildly warm thats it.
>
> No smoke or explosions ! I think that some may have got bad/defective/BY chips..
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Raj, vu2zap
> Bengaluru, South India.
>
>
>
>
>




Re: full rig power control unit

M Garza <mgarza896@...>
 

I use diptrace.  It does autorouting.  I only do single sided boards, but it routes with no issues.

Marco - KG5PRT 

On Mar 1, 2018 11:35 AM, "Vince Vielhaber" <vev@...> wrote:
Yeah that's kinda what I thought.  I have a double sided board I'm working on that's only about an inch by an inch and a half and has 3 ICs on it.  One sits under another larger one.  Having a bit of trouble keeping my wits on this one.

Thanks!
Vince.


On 03/01/2018 12:23 PM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Vince,

I have been laying out PCBs for nearly 30 Years.  I have used just a
few.  They are really a learning curve.

There are some really expensive packages that I have not used
(Mentor?).  I would put little faith if they claim great auto-routing?

You might get results with an auto router, I never have.  I have watched
it put traces down until it gets in a corner.

Then it "Rips Up and tries again", kind of sadistic to watch!

If you had lots of space on the PCB, maybe let it go, and then  finish
it manually.

The real secret is to really spend time on a good schematic.  And when
the Design Check says "you got problems",

you better heed the warning and fix the problems.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP



On 3/1/2018 8:58 AM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Will any of these packages that have been mentioned do automatic
routing?  Or are you required to do all the runs manually?

Vince.



On 03/01/2018 10:12 AM, Michael Hagen wrote:
Lt Spice is a circuit simulator.  Not for Layout of PCBs.  Use one of
the online PCB programs folks have been discussing here on the group.
Look back through the posts on PCB Layout Software.  Any of them will
require a learning curve.

For instance, that circuit uses some small SCRs.  Not a real popular
part, you might get to make the Model (s).

There is a schematic model and its matching PCB model.  Start with the
schematic program and create a nice schematic before going to PCB.  It
will transfer its connections (netlist) to you PCB.   It will find many
mistakes (inconsistancies between schematic and layout).  If you are
real careful, you can make PCBs that are correct the first time!

PCB layout is Really Fun!  Better than crossword puzzles.

73's

Mike, WA6ISP


On 3/1/2018 4:33 AM, Walter wrote:
If I wranted to build a circuit like this one is there a software to
help me layout a perfboard for the circuit.  I have LTSpice but I
don't see anything to layout a perf board in it. It just may be that I
don't know where that feature is in the software.
--
73, W9KJO
Walter

--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID  "MotDog@..."
Mike@...




--
Mike Hagen, WA6ISP
10917 Bryant Street
Yucaipa, Ca. 92399
(909) 918-0058
PayPal ID  "MotDog@..."
Mike@...



--
  Michigan VHF Corp.   http://www.nobucks.net/   http://www.CDupe.com/
                          http://www.metalworkingfun.com



Re: full rig power control unit

Jerry Gaffke
 

Eagle and Diptrace have an integrated autorouter.
Here's a post on using Kicad with TopoR: 
    https://mylifeasa.tinkerer.us/using-topor-to-autoroute-a-kicad-pcb-bf5ae47cdc7b
The Freeroute package can also be paired with Kicad. 

Most of my time on designing a board is spent placing parts properly, setting up footprints
for new parts, configuring design rules, triple checking the netlist.  On any boards seen
in this forum, the actual trace routing is not very time consuming, and anything RF
is best done by hand anyway.  As a plus, time spent hand-routing is time spent
thinking about possible design errors.  

At work, we used Mentor's PadsPCB.  It had what's considered a reasonably good
autorouter.  Nobody bothered to use it much, results were not as good as routing by hand. 

Jerry, KE7ER


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 08:58 am, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Will any of these packages that have been mentioned do automatic routing? Or are you required to do all the runs manually?

Re: full rig power control unit

Mike Bryce
 

Mike and the group,

I’ve found the autorouter to be both a blessing and a curse. Some of the higher ends models will do high speed data lines and so on. For what I’m building, I don’t have an issue with using them. 

Here’s what i do when autorouting  a complex pcb.

Many times, there are traces that need to be in a specific location or must be extra wide because of current carrying requirements.

I lay those down manually, and then ‘lock them’ so the autorouter won’t rip ‘em up and try its hand at it.

After the autorouter is done, I go through one layer at a time and fix the mistakes the autorouter made with its creative routing. Electrically, it’s perfect, but it looks like crap. Sometimes a trace goes righ by a pad that it needs to connect, goes around a transistor lead and then back to the required pad.

 A human can cheat. Most autorouter do the top layer one way, the bottom layer the opposite way. I can go in and break that rule and run the normally vertical top layer horizontal. Of course you can select what layer does what direction, so this is only an example.

Sometimes I feel the autorouter’s sister is the same woman that does GPS navigation, they both can be creative!

and yes, it is sadistic to sit and watch the autorouter try and try and try to route the pcb.

However the biggest problem I see in autorouters is the ability to re-route the board time after time quickly. If you had to do it all by hand and it took days to do, you’re more likely than not to rip it all up and start over just for grins.


73

On Mar 1, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Michael Hagen <motdog@...> wrote:

Vince,

I have been laying out PCBs for nearly 30 Years.  I have used just a few.  They are really a learning curve.

There are some really expensive packages that I have not used (Mentor?).  I would put little faith if they claim great auto-routing?

You might get results with an auto router, I never have.  I have watched it put traces down until it gets in a corner.

Then it "Rips Up and tries again", kind of sadistic to watch!

If you had lots of space on the PCB, maybe let it go, and then  finish it manually.

The real secret is to really spend time on a good schematic.  And when the Design Check says "you got problems",

you better heed the warning and fix the problems. 

73's

Mike, WA6ISP