All,
I have done multiple searches on Groups.io.  From that empirical data I have surmised that the text of the post is not being searched, only the title and hashtags.  That is not really helpful unless everyone adds hashtags to the message title.  I  think that is too much to ask of the new user, and I do not know how to do so in a reply.  Maybe we need "Potential Elmer" training as well
Until I learn more, I will try to share what I think I know.  I only ask that corrections be respectful and not flaming.
73
Evan
AC9RU

On Apr 30, 2020, at 17:51, Gordon Gibby via groups.io <docvacuumtubes@...> wrote:

I did a simple Google search, and came up with a whole slew of hits, several of which I wrote myself

<image0.png>

On Apr 30, 2020, at 17:45, Thomas Sharka via groups.io <sharkatw@...> wrote:



Have you tried using the "search sites" ability of Google? For example, "mail.yahoo.com: bitx" (no quotes) will return all hits on Yahoo mail that match bitx.

Sent from Yahoo Mail. Get the app

On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 05:16:41 PM EDT, Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:

All,

I have done multiple searches on Groups.io.  From that empirical data I have surmised that the text of the post is not being searched, only the title and hashtags.  That is not really helpful unless everyone adds hashtags to the message title.  I  think that is too much to ask of the new user, and I do not know how to do so in a reply.  Maybe we need "Potential Elmer" training as well  

Until I learn more, I will try to share what I think I know.  I only ask that corrections be respectful and not flaming.

73
Evan
AC9RU

On Apr 30, 2020, at 17:45, Thomas Sharka via groups.io <sharkatw@...> wrote:



Have you tried using the "search sites" ability of Google? For example, "mail.yahoo.com: bitx" (no quotes) will return all hits on Yahoo mail that match bitx.

Sent from Yahoo Mail. Get the app

On Thursday, April 30, 2020, 05:16:41 PM EDT, Evan Hand <elhandjr@...> wrote:

All,

I have done multiple searches on Groups.io.  From that empirical data I have surmised that the text of the post is not being searched, only the title and hashtags.  That is not really helpful unless everyone adds hashtags to the message title.  I  think that is too much to ask of the new user, and I do not know how to do so in a reply.  Maybe we need "Potential Elmer" training as well  

Until I learn more, I will try to share what I think I know.  I only ask that corrections be respectful and not flaming.

73
Evan
AC9RU

Hi Bob,

I don't know how far back you go but before solid state electronic regulation was introduced in automotive systems the charging voltage was commonly as high as 15 volts. Batteries and light bulbs start showing some stress at that point. Drivers would operate the headlights during day time, not for added safety, but to draw that charging voltage down to more conservative levels.

73,

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [BITX20] Setting up a comprehensive station
From: "Bill Cromwell" <wrcromwell@...>
Date: Thu, April 30, 2020 11:44 am
To: BITX20@groups.io

Hi Bob,

I don't know how far back you go but before solid state electronic
regulation was introduced in automotive systems the charging voltage was
commonly as high as 15 volts. Batteries and light bulbs start showing
some stress at that point. Drivers would operate the headlights during
day time, not for added safety, but to draw that charging voltage down
to more conservative levels.

73,

Bill KU8H

On 4/30/20 11:26 AM, Robert D. Bowers wrote:
> Regarding setting up the station - if the radio is built for "12 volts"
> - only an _incompetent_ designer would make it so that the incoming
> voltage is absolutely no more than 10% above that voltage and wouldn't
> provide an adequate safety factor.  As a lot of people already know, 12v
> is a generic term for a lead-acid battery with a specific number of
> cells - the 'resting' voltage will be above 12.8 volts depending on the
> charge state, and the charging voltage above 13.2 (usually 13.4-13.8 -
> I've seen 14 volts but that's a bit high IMO).  Also the difference
> between 4 watts out and 5 watts out will not be detectable to a listener
> - and the range difference isn't much.  To be barely noticeable to a
> listener, the power would have to be at least doubled (3db gain).
>
> Conditions are far more important than station wattage out.  (A decent
> antenna is also critical - the better the antenna, the better you'll
> 'get out' and 'hear'.)
>
> As far as a BitX radio - I've run mine on 13.4 quite often, and my
> portable BitX40 station has a 12v lead-acid (sealed type) which varies
> from 12.8 to 13.4 depending on the charge state - also no problems.
> I've had one running in the van with a charging voltage over 14 volts -
> I didn't like it (battery was going bad), but again no problems.  (Too
> much ignition noise in the van to use a BitX there - long story.)  A
> commercially built rig from a 'big-name' company should be even more
> tolerant of voltage - although getting below 12v can cause real problems
> and usually isn't recommended, unless they specifically designed the
> radio to have a wide voltage range!
>
> The big things to be careful out is a proper match to the antenna (not
> for more efficient transfer of energy as much as a mismatch will stress
> the finals), the radio is properly adjusted, and the conditions are at
> least moderate.  I'd also add good air movement around the radio -
> keeping it cool.
>
> Enjoy your station!
>
> Bob
> N4FBZ
>
>
> On 4/29/20 2:52 AM, Christopher Miller wrote:
>> Ok, great
>>
>> I asked once before and got the feeling I needed to mod the bitx. If I
>> can just use nominal 12 volts I will and get more power. I have a heat
>> sink so I may install that but I have zero desire to do any mods until
>> I get both antennas tuned and up with the 2 meter rig ready to go for
>> the emergency event Pima county has coming up. I’ll try it now and let
>> you guys know if my raduino smokes.
>>
>> Chris
>
>

--
bark less - wag more

Regarding setting up the station - if the radio is built for "12 volts" - only an _incompetent_ designer would make it so that the incoming voltage is absolutely no more than 10% above that voltage and wouldn't provide an adequate safety factor.  As a lot of people already know, 12v is a generic term for a lead-acid battery with a specific number of cells - the 'resting' voltage will be above 12.8 volts depending on the charge state, and the charging voltage above 13.2 (usually 13.4-13.8 - I've seen 14 volts but that's a bit high IMO).  Also the difference between 4 watts out and 5 watts out will not be detectable to a listener - and the range difference isn't much.  To be barely noticeable to a listener, the power would have to be at least doubled (3db gain).
Conditions are far more important than station wattage out.  (A decent antenna is also critical - the better the antenna, the better you'll 'get out' and 'hear'.)
As far as a BitX radio - I've run mine on 13.4 quite often, and my portable BitX40 station has a 12v lead-acid (sealed type) which varies from 12.8 to 13.4 depending on the charge state - also no problems. I've had one running in the van with a charging voltage over 14 volts - I didn't like it (battery was going bad), but again no problems.  (Too much ignition noise in the van to use a BitX there - long story.)  A commercially built rig from a 'big-name' company should be even more tolerant of voltage - although getting below 12v can cause real problems and usually isn't recommended, unless they specifically designed the radio to have a wide voltage range!
The big things to be careful out is a proper match to the antenna (not for more efficient transfer of energy as much as a mismatch will stress the finals), the radio is properly adjusted, and the conditions are at least moderate.  I'd also add good air movement around the radio - keeping it cool.
Enjoy your station!
Bob
N4FBZ
On 4/29/20 2:52 AM, Christopher Miller wrote:

Ok, great

I asked once before and got the feeling I needed to mod the bitx. If I can just use nominal 12 volts I will and get more power. I have a heat sink so I may install that but I have zero desire to do any mods until I get both antennas tuned and up with the 2 meter rig ready to go for the emergency event Pima county has coming up. I’ll try it now and let you guys know if my raduino smokes.

Chris

I too have noticed the problems with search, but it covers just about every search engine.  For instance on Google - I'll look for a specific topic (related to research) - and either get nothing, or hundreds of ads (maybe with information thrown in somewhere - often several pages of search results deep).  I know the information is 'out there' - but sometimes it takes hours to find - and I waste a lot of time trying different combinations and patterns of search terms.  The problem is that search engines today are generally crafted to support ads, not information (unlike the origin of the internet) - and they cater to the lowest common denominator.  Their algorithms don't work very well when dealing with more technical terms or specialized topics - unless they're specifically made to do so.
Off-topic results - doesn't seem to have any impact as far as I've noticed.  Maybe there will be multiple hits on a single thread - but that happens even with a strictly 'on-topic' thread. /(I've also seen that battle cry used to stifle free speech or 'friendly chatting' - even that related to the topic being discussed.  A few times over the years I had that accusation thrown at me - for telling a 'war story' directly related to the topic of the thread or similar.)/
A funny thing I noted on the last time I tried to get information (changing an old BitX20 to 10 meters) - I could get more hits on Google than on the groups.io search.  Lots of ads, of course - but a tad more information was found.  I still had to ask the group and did get some useful pointers, but nothing more-or-less cookbook, which would have made the conversion project relaxing rather than stressful.  (The radio is still on the shelf, waiting on funds and that precious commodity - time.)
A better search engine could also eliminate a lot of the "here's some links, start reading - YOU GOTTA LEARN!!!" BS I see a lot, especially in Ham Radio (also other forms of insult thrown at people - especially newbies and people who don't buy the "latest and greatest").  The writers who love those kind of responses don't even begin to realize how offensive and jerk-ish they sound. /(I don't ask them to learn what I have to (which would probably give them splitting headaches!), and it's doubly offensive to someone who has to read the equivalent of two or three technical books a day.  I try to do ham radio to relax, not educate myself - which goes hand in hand with the work I do!)/
_I have found that the domain you search from can have a big impact on the results of a search_ (but I haven't tried this with groups.io - maybe I should).  If I use VPN to go through my school for searches, I get less ads (but sometimes less results too).  If I use remote access to my work computer at school... I get a third set of results (but am forced to work with W10 which I despise).  That points to the algorithms used to generate results. A colleague (programmer) and I chatted about this topic - and he said that the big search engines DO take into account where a search is coming from in the algorithms (IMO they probably throw ads when it's a private system at a residence, regardless of the terms used - trying to convince people to buy things they don't want).  He did also say that their focus was more business-oriented.  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the search engine at groups.io is based on one of the 'big' ones, like google (I haven't checked).
Maybe some programmer would be interested (if it could be set up with groups.io) in crafting a more specialized search engine for the amateur radio groups?  That could make a huge difference for several groups.
Bob
N4FBZ
On 4/30/20 9:10 AM, Bill Cromwell wrote:

Hi,

I have not tried the search utilities available on groups.io. I have found the search functions of *any* email group like this are severely compromised by off-topic messages. That is not just limited to having posts about baking cookies or weaving baskets in a radio group. The "subject" line gets corrupted when it wanders off the posted "subject" and should really have a new thread with it's own "subject". Some groups are worse about that than others. *All* of them have that 'feature'. It is not an academic library.

I spent hundreds of hours wading through ARRL Handbooks and other *thick* books long, long ago. I let the smoke out of a lot of stuff experimenting. There was no internet. I also did not find an "elmer". Todays newbies have not been on that road. They often do not yet even know what words to use in asking their questions. It follows they won't have a clue what words to put in a search window. It isn't their fault they have to ask the questions. Once upon a time they would be asking the same questions of a local "elmer". Today, some of us are those elmers and we have to do that job online. It is much easier to have a newbie in the shack or shop and show them hands-on how things work. They can see *everything*, hear all the sounds, and even smell the smoke;) That will be rare today. So we just take things as they come.

73,

Bill  KU8H

On 4/30/20 6:54 AM, Evan Hand wrote:

Gordon,

Yes, it has.  The main issue that I have with Groups.io is poor search capability.  There is also a lack of new user introduction that might help as well.  Long time monitors like you and I spend a lot of time rehashing old topics because they are hard to find for a new member.

73
Evan
AC9TU

Ok, great

I asked once before and got the feeling I needed to mod the bitx. If I can just use nominal 12 volts I will and get more power. I have a heat sink so I may install that but I have zero desire to do any mods until I get both antennas tuned and up with the 2 meter rig ready to go for the emergency event Pima county has coming up. I’ll try it now and let you guys know if my raduino smokes.

Chris