Topics

Horn Capacitor


sri welaratna
 

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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Ken Nelson
 

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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sri welaratna
 

Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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Ken Nelson
 

Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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David Russel
 

Is it possible to hollow out the original capacitor and insert a smaller modern one, securing it as needed? 

David 

Sent From Mobile Phone

On Oct 26, 2020, at 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:


Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad






sri welaratna
 

Ken,
I will have to take one of the horns apart again to photograph the inside- perhaps later today.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad






sri welaratna
 

David,
And perhaps leave the capacitor as it is and add one across? Depends on size, there isn’t much space. Or replace the capacitor with a smaller diameter electrically isolated spacer and add a capacitor across?
I was hoping someone had already worked out a solution. I thought the failure would be common on Bosch horns of that era. I have six samples, all non tooting.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 10:12 PM, David Russel <djrussel@...> wrote:

Is it possible to hollow out the original capacitor and insert a smaller modern one, securing it as needed? 

David 

Sent From Mobile Phone

On Oct 26, 2020, at 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:


Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad






Ken Nelson
 

Did you see David's idea of hollowing out an original and fitting a new one in the case if possible?

Ken

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:36 AM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I will have to take one of the horns apart again to photograph the inside- perhaps later today.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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Matthew Spielberg
 

Lack of real knowledge does not prevent me from offering my opinion.

Normally the capacitor/condenser is just to absorb some of the spikes in the current flow as the horn contacts open and close. Physically, if it can fit in, a modern capacitor, fitted inside the case should work just fine.

I worked on a couple of juke boxes from the early 50's. Companies offered replacement capacitor sets. You had your choice...old fashioned, or modern. I did two amplifiers. One with the old fashioned caps, one new. I cheated. Old fashioned got replaced on top of the amplifier. New caps got soldered in below the metal chassis. Both functioned just fine. 

Old caps were huge in comparison to the modern ones of the same capacity and specs. New replacement caps should fit inside the case without a problem.

Are the caps labeled as to farad or micro-farad capacity?

On 10/27/2020 8:03 AM, Ken Nelson wrote:
Did you see David's idea of hollowing out an original and fitting a new one in the case if possible?

Ken

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:36 AM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I will have to take one of the horns apart again to photograph the inside- perhaps later today.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad





-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250


Craig Parada
 

I’ve never had a horn with a capacitor, but one would be useful. It’s there to reduce electrical noise and increase the life of the horns electrical contacts, just like in the distributor. Any 0.1mf cap over 6 volts will do. Forget old paper versions, and no limit to voltage.

On Oct 27, 2020, at 08:00, sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna@...> wrote:

 David,
And perhaps leave the capacitor as it is and add one across? Depends on size, there isn’t much space. Or replace the capacitor with a smaller diameter electrically isolated spacer and add a capacitor across?
I was hoping someone had already worked out a solution. I thought the failure would be common on Bosch horns of that era. I have six samples, all non tooting.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 10:12 PM, David Russel <djrussel@...> wrote:

Is it possible to hollow out the original capacitor and insert a smaller modern one, securing it as needed? 

David 

Sent From Mobile Phone

On Oct 26, 2020, at 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:


Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




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Matthew Spielberg
 

That is a cheat that they use in the old fashioned tube radio hobby to preserve appearances. But if this cap is within the horn body, not really necessary.

Sri, I assume that you have tried polishing the points?


What is your goal re the radio? Just a period AM to fill a hole in the dash, or do you want to listen to broadcasts?

On 10/26/2020 10:12 PM, David Russel wrote:
Is it possible to hollow out the original capacitor and insert a smaller modern one, securing it as needed? 

David 

Sent From Mobile Phone

On Oct 26, 2020, at 9:14 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:


Can you send me a photo of the construction showing how the capacitor acts as part of the mechanism?  

As for the Deke, have you talked with Byron?  Maybe his car has a radio to give you some info on it or what might fit?  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 11:50 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ken,
I don’t think Bosch made the capacitors. Any manufacturer’s capacitors will be fine but they need to fit dimensionally because the horn uses the capacitor as part of the mechanical arrangement.
Without this capacitor you need to replace not only the electrical capacitance but also the mechanical connection on the side of the coil that oscillates between make and brake at the horn frequency.
Talking about radios, what is your advice for obtaining a radio suitable for a 1956 DKW? The hole in the dashboard is 45 x 95 mm.
Sri





On Monday, October 26, 2020, 8:26 PM, Ken Nelson <citbuff@...> wrote:

Sri, in other words, you want only genuine original Bosch capacitors??  And is it even possible to find originals anymore??  Reason I ask is I have a friend who restores vintage tvs from the '50s and maybe earlier, so he might know something about old capacitors, as he fixed the radio in my 1953 Bristol 403 car - with a period UK radio.  

Ken

On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:37 PM sri welaratna via groups.io <sriwelaratna=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I am looking for horn capacitors for Bosch horns of 1960 vintage (photo enclosed, size approx 1 inch long and 0.5 “ diameter, has markings HOKO 1ZZZ 6... 12 Volt). Replacement horns, even for 6 volt operation, are ridiculously cheap but it would be nice to restore the original. 
Can anyone suggest where to find them? If anyone has restored a Bosch horn without replacing the original capacitor with an alternative solution please advise.

Thanks,
Sri 




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad





-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250