Topics

FYI - overlooked VIN Verification hurdle


Keith Murphy
 

So, you may say the well funded car collectors amongst us can hire an approved CA DMV VIN verifier to get your arcane barn find legitimized and bypass using the DMV or the CHP and slap yourself on the back for having the rare privilege to pay to play with collector cars with paperwork issues.

au contraire mon ami

Recently (today) I went to get a VIN verification at the DMV for a vehicle that’s been stored for 40 years, has a title, has last registration card, has both plates, and like all 40 year stalled projects some parts of the car had been removed, ie hood and single bench seat - well, that “dismantled” issue wound up with the DMV verifier gleefully saying she couldn’t verify the car as “ it was dismantled or in unassembled condition” as stated on the top of Reg Form 31 (2018 and later versions) :

“While PHYSICALLY inspecting complete and assembled vehicles”

DMV has decided to make this a heightened issue - they want complete and assembled vehicles to verify, they don’t have to operate, but what the hell is a not complete and not assembled vehicle ?

No ash tray?
No hub caps?
Missing side mirrors?
No spare tire?
No bumpers?

The verifier decides what’s missing and your screwed.

What if you can’t get your barn find whipped into a fully assembled and complete shape ... which the DMV decides .... then what?

You will have to spend yet more money on your barn find to complete it just to satisfy the verifier?

Yes, they want full drivetrain, complete body, and your at the will of a verifier as to what’s consider missing.

Private verifiers are equally tied by this CA vehicle code rule - and yes you may bend a private verifier with your cash, but change is coming.

Will CA want to MOT your barn find to complete transfer of ownership into your name?


What if CA passed an MOT law, will you want to get the brakes working, lights, turn signals, replace tires over 3 years old, find and replace al of the rare and missing parts that make your car disassembled and incomplete in the eyes of a VIN verifier ?

Times they are a changing, so take stock: barn finds could become out of $ reach for the masses - feeling like mass transit is in your future?


David Miller
 

I agree with you observations, and would not want to say anything to diminish its impact, But the one thing I have always done to protect me from the DMV folly is to take papers like the verification you just got and dispose of it in the nearest trash pail and drive to the next DMV and get an verification. It is very unlikely that you will encounter another over zealous employee.

On Apr 7, 2021, at 11:30 PM, Keith Murphy via groups.io <Keithddl527=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

So, you may say the well funded car collectors amongst us can hire an approved CA DMV VIN verifier to get your arcane barn find legitimized and bypass using the DMV or the CHP and slap yourself on the back for having the rare privilege to pay to play with collector cars with paperwork issues.

au contraire mon ami

Recently (today) I went to get a VIN verification at the DMV for a vehicle that’s been stored for 40 years, has a title, has last registration card, has both plates, and like all 40 year stalled projects some parts of the car had been removed, ie hood and single bench seat - well, that “dismantled” issue wound up with the DMV verifier gleefully saying she couldn’t verify the car as “ it was dismantled or in unassembled condition” as stated on the top of Reg Form 31 (2018 and later versions) :

“While PHYSICALLY inspecting complete and assembled vehicles”

DMV has decided to make this a heightened issue - they want complete and assembled vehicles to verify, they don’t have to operate, but what the hell is a not complete and not assembled vehicle ?

No ash tray?
No hub caps?
Missing side mirrors?
No spare tire?
No bumpers?

The verifier decides what’s missing and your screwed.

What if you can’t get your barn find whipped into a fully assembled and complete shape ... which the DMV decides .... then what?

You will have to spend yet more money on your barn find to complete it just to satisfy the verifier?

Yes, they want full drivetrain, complete body, and your at the will of a verifier as to what’s consider missing.

Private verifiers are equally tied by this CA vehicle code rule - and yes you may bend a private verifier with your cash, but change is coming.

Will CA want to MOT your barn find to complete transfer of ownership into your name?


What if CA passed an MOT law, will you want to get the brakes working, lights, turn signals, replace tires over 3 years old, find and replace al of the rare and missing parts that make your car disassembled and incomplete in the eyes of a VIN verifier ?

Times they are a changing, so take stock: barn finds could become out of $ reach for the masses - feeling like mass transit is in your future?


Alan Boucher
 

Not so simple, but one answer - MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE!


On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 11:58 AM David Miller via groups.io <dam10=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:
I agree with you observations, and would not want to say anything to diminish its impact, But the one thing I have always done to protect me from the DMV folly is to take papers like the verification you just got and dispose of it in the nearest trash pail and drive to the next DMV and get an verification.  It is very unlikely that you will encounter another over zealous employee.

On Apr 7, 2021, at 11:30 PM, Keith Murphy via groups.io <Keithddl527=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

So, you may say the well funded car collectors amongst us can hire an approved CA DMV VIN verifier to get your arcane barn find legitimized and bypass using the DMV or the CHP and slap yourself on the back for having the rare privilege to pay to play with collector cars with paperwork issues.

au contraire mon ami

Recently (today) I went to get a VIN verification at the DMV for a vehicle that’s been stored for 40 years, has a title, has last registration card, has both plates, and like all 40 year stalled projects some parts of the car had been removed, ie hood and single bench seat - well, that “dismantled” issue wound up with the DMV  verifier gleefully saying she couldn’t verify the car as “ it was dismantled or in unassembled condition” as stated on the top of Reg Form 31 (2018 and later versions) :

“While PHYSICALLY inspecting complete and assembled vehicles”

DMV has decided to make this a heightened issue - they want complete and assembled vehicles to verify, they don’t have to operate, but what the hell is a not complete and not assembled vehicle ?

No ash tray?
No hub caps?
Missing side mirrors?
No spare tire?
No bumpers?

The verifier decides what’s missing and your screwed.

What if you can’t get your barn find whipped into a fully assembled and complete shape ...  which the DMV decides ....  then what?

You will have to spend yet more money on your barn find to complete it just to satisfy the verifier?

Yes, they want full drivetrain, complete body, and your at the will of a verifier as to what’s consider missing.

Private verifiers are equally tied by this CA vehicle code rule - and yes you may bend a private verifier with your cash, but change is coming.

Will CA want to MOT your barn find to complete transfer of ownership into your name?


What if CA passed an MOT law, will you want to get the brakes working, lights, turn signals, replace tires over 3 years old, find and replace al of the rare and missing parts that make your car disassembled and incomplete in the eyes of a VIN verifier ?

Times they are a changing, so take stock: barn finds could become out of $ reach for the masses - feeling  like mass transit is in your future?
























--
Al Boucher


Matthew Spielberg
 

I have never used "outside VIN verifiers", and have had difficulties with DMV employees who wanted me to pull a non-runner out of a trailer so that it would be easier for him to see the number plate. But not willing to help me push it back in.

I have had really good luck with the CHP. They tend to be car guys, and more understanding. (I even had the Castro Valley CHP do a house call)

I would call first to make sure that their trained verifier is available, since not every CHP is trained and authorized to verify.

Your results may vary.

On 4/8/2021 8:35 AM, David Miller via groups.io wrote:
I agree with you observations, and would not want to say anything to diminish its impact, But the one thing I have always done to protect me from the DMV folly is to take papers like the verification you just got and dispose of it in the nearest trash pail and drive to the next DMV and get an verification. It is very unlikely that you will encounter another over zealous employee.



--
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250


David Russel
 

Agree with Matt.  While I had some successful verifications thru the DMV the most recent one, for the Tatraplan, was an interesting failure.  While the verifier at the Santa Clara DMV office signed off on the verification, the manager overseeing the desk clerk refused to accept it.  She said she'd only accept it if verified by the CHP. Drove over to the nearby CHP office without an appointment and got lucky as someone was late and the officer was willing to fit me in.  He looked at the paperwork from the DMV and said it was good enough as-is, but when explained understood that the manager was just playing CYA.  Showed him the chassis # stamped into a body panel which matched the # on the Data plate and he happily completed a new verification form which was accepted by the DMV

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 10:23 AM Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:
I have never used "outside VIN verifiers", and have had difficulties
with DMV employees who wanted me to pull a non-runner out of a trailer
so that it would be easier for him to see the number plate. But not
willing to help me push it back in.

I have had really good luck with the CHP. They tend to be car guys, and
more understanding. (I even had the Castro Valley CHP do a house call)

I would call first to make sure that their trained verifier is
available, since not every CHP is trained and authorized to verify.

Your results may vary.

On 4/8/2021 8:35 AM, David Miller via groups.io wrote:
> I agree with you observations, and would not want to say anything to diminish its impact, But the one thing I have always done to protect me from the DMV folly is to take papers like the verification you just got and dispose of it in the nearest trash pail and drive to the next DMV and get an verification.  It is very unlikely that you will encounter another over zealous employee.
>
>
>
>
--
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250







Keith Murphy
 

Again, this warning tale is not about vin  verifiers alone, or how to get around the bad ones, we all now the dance.
My 2nd attempt today at another DMV was successful - yes, used the old “this is a case of lost paperwork” using only 1980 title, 1980 reg, blue plates and threw myself at their feet - Verifier asked if the VIN was on the engine? Yes! - handed me the completed form, went to stand in line, completed transfer, only hitch was keeping blue plates, had to explain the code to the newbie employee that lic plates shown on ANY DMV paperwork stay with the vehicle it is for - photo copy both plates to confirm there useable - new title in 2 weeks.

The warning I am making is: VEHICLE MUST NOT BE DISMANTLED OR UNUSEMBLED to be verified - this is the new hurdle the DMV will require moving forward .

On Apr 8, 2021, at 11:35 AM, David Russel <djrussel@...> wrote:


Agree with Matt.  While I had some successful verifications thru the DMV the most recent one, for the Tatraplan, was an interesting failure.  While the verifier at the Santa Clara DMV office signed off on the verification, the manager overseeing the desk clerk refused to accept it.  She said she'd only accept it if verified by the CHP. Drove over to the nearby CHP office without an appointment and got lucky as someone was late and the officer was willing to fit me in.  He looked at the paperwork from the DMV and said it was good enough as-is, but when explained understood that the manager was just playing CYA.  Showed him the chassis # stamped into a body panel which matched the # on the Data plate and he happily completed a new verification form which was accepted by the DMV

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 10:23 AM Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:
I have never used "outside VIN verifiers", and have had difficulties
with DMV employees who wanted me to pull a non-runner out of a trailer
so that it would be easier for him to see the number plate. But not
willing to help me push it back in.

I have had really good luck with the CHP. They tend to be car guys, and
more understanding. (I even had the Castro Valley CHP do a house call)

I would call first to make sure that their trained verifier is
available, since not every CHP is trained and authorized to verify.

Your results may vary.

On 4/8/2021 8:35 AM, David Miller via groups.io wrote:
> I agree with you observations, and would not want to say anything to diminish its impact, But the one thing I have always done to protect me from the DMV folly is to take papers like the verification you just got and dispose of it in the nearest trash pail and drive to the next DMV and get an verification.  It is very unlikely that you will encounter another over zealous employee.
>
>
>
>
--
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250