Hydraulic lifters


Keith Murphy
 

Jowett migrated to solid lifters on all later engines, factory replacements engines would be the improved design - solid lifters.
I’m sure the Javelins lifters have lots of milage on them, but it is or was running, that’s noteworthy  - it hasn’t blown up early like most Jowett motors of that era!
Alloy blocks wear, as they wear they leak oil, as oil leaks grow, oil pressure drops, it can leak past the camshaft journals , lifter bores, let alone worn crankshaft bearings (a known problem) so restoring running clearances is the only fix.

A VW owner can buy a new alloy block for $1000 to replace an old heat cycled old block, or they can think they can restore an old block for the cost of a $100 main bearing line bore, which ignores the worn lifter bores and camshaft bearing bores, so rebuilt VW engines using such a partially remachined  block typically have very short lives, do to LOW oil pressure , add bigger cylinders and hotter cams and you have a grenade in 10,000 miles.
The so called fix of putting a BIG oil pump on a tired VW engine was putting a bandaid on the loss of oil pressure that a worn engine case was causing, and not understood as being a sign of a badly heat cycled case needing replacement rather then complete remachining to tighten up all the worn machined surfaces.

Porsche guys remove all the engine care studs, lap the two case half’s, restore crush, then align bore the case for over size main bearings and cam bearings, Porsche 356 lifters are pencil like and break the card when they fail at hi revs - it’s common to weld up broken lifter bores and machine them, or bush if just worn out - you can’t buy new Porsche cases, and if you could, how about $5000 or $10,000 ?
Jowett cases are what they are - tired and high milage - you restore the engine blocks the best you can afford, but low oil pressure is and will be the enemy of the boxer style split case alloy engine block.



On Oct 7, 2022, at 10:00 PM, Lou via groups.io <c1937@...> wrote:


   
   
   
   
   
    Below is a drawing of the Jowett four cylinder boxer engine.     
Notice the lifters are above the pistons.     
   
   
1952 Jowett eng.gif   
    The VW is an air cooled, rear boxer engine with the lifters   
at the bottom so the lifter tubes could serve as return path   
for rocker oil.   This design might be the Jowet's problem.       
   
    Lou           
   
   
   
   
   
   
On 10/7/2022 5:39 PM, Scott Davis wrote:
For the Toyota sports 800, which also has hydraulic tappets in an aluminum case, it is possible to go oversize using a different lifter, or sleeve the lifter bore. Either is a workable solution. 

Fortunately, they rarely wear out the bore, tappet face failure is more common. 

Scott


-------- Original message --------
From: "Keith Murphy via groups.io" <Keithddl527@...>
Date: 10/8/22 08:01 (GMT+09:00)
Subject: Re: [ArcaneAutos] Lockheed H



Like attempts to put hydraulic lifters in air cooled VW cases, if the lifter bores wear more then 0.002” - the hydraulic  lifters make noise. 
On the original air cooled blocks with solid lifters, if the bored are worn you loose oil pressure like crazy - it’s exactly the same on the Jowett - excessive wear in the lifter bores, causes low oil pressure, lifters will knock.
VW guys are aware of this wear, they have the lifter bores bushed with bronze bushings, but that technology is aimed at VW lifter bore sizes and case spacing, so custom work would be needed on the Jowett.
I have Jowett, so I have thought about this issue, going to solid oversize lifters and reaming the case is but one option - of several - all a matter of $ vs originality.


On Oct 7, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Tom Rymes <tom@...> wrote:

Arcaners,

I figure that this is fairly arcane on multiple fronts, and that this is a knowledgeable group, so I wanted to ask if anyone can help me out here. My 1952 Jowett Javelin is noisy as all get out, due to what I currently think may be failed hydraulic tappets. 

Early Javelins used Lockheed hydraulic tappets. My understanding is that Lockheed licensed an American design and tried to sell the British industry on it, but had very little luck. As a result, they were only used in two limited production cars before being discontinued. This means spares aren’t readily found, nor is information.

I filmed this video in the hopes that someone in this group might recognize the original source of the design, and that I might be able to get some more information or (there’s no way I’m this lucky) even find spare parts.


Let me know if you have any details!

Tom



Lou
 

   
   
   
   
   
    Below is a drawing of the Jowett four cylinder boxer engine.     
Notice the lifters are above the pistons.     
   
   
   
    The VW is an air cooled, rear boxer engine with the lifters   
at the bottom so the lifter tubes could serve as return path   
for rocker oil.   This design might be the Jowet's problem.       
   
    Lou           
   
   
   
   
   
   
On 10/7/2022 5:39 PM, Scott Davis wrote:

For the Toyota sports 800, which also has hydraulic tappets in an aluminum case, it is possible to go oversize using a different lifter, or sleeve the lifter bore. Either is a workable solution. 

Fortunately, they rarely wear out the bore, tappet face failure is more common. 

Scott


-------- Original message --------
From: "Keith Murphy via groups.io" <Keithddl527@...>
Date: 10/8/22 08:01 (GMT+09:00)
Subject: Re: [ArcaneAutos] Lockheed H



Like attempts to put hydraulic lifters in air cooled VW cases, if the lifter bores wear more then 0.002” - the hydraulic  lifters make noise. 
On the original air cooled blocks with solid lifters, if the bored are worn you loose oil pressure like crazy - it’s exactly the same on the Jowett - excessive wear in the lifter bores, causes low oil pressure, lifters will knock.
VW guys are aware of this wear, they have the lifter bores bushed with bronze bushings, but that technology is aimed at VW lifter bore sizes and case spacing, so custom work would be needed on the Jowett.
I have Jowett, so I have thought about this issue, going to solid oversize lifters and reaming the case is but one option - of several - all a matter of $ vs originality.


On Oct 7, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Tom Rymes <tom@...> wrote:

Arcaners,

I figure that this is fairly arcane on multiple fronts, and that this is a knowledgeable group, so I wanted to ask if anyone can help me out here. My 1952 Jowett Javelin is noisy as all get out, due to what I currently think may be failed hydraulic tappets. 

Early Javelins used Lockheed hydraulic tappets. My understanding is that Lockheed licensed an American design and tried to sell the British industry on it, but had very little luck. As a result, they were only used in two limited production cars before being discontinued. This means spares aren’t readily found, nor is information.

I filmed this video in the hopes that someone in this group might recognize the original source of the design, and that I might be able to get some more information or (there’s no way I’m this lucky) even find spare parts.


Let me know if you have any details!

Tom