Date   

Re: Down shifting a manual car to slow down

Fred Cisin
 

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, sujit roy via groups.io wrote:
I learnt to drive a stick shift car in the UK and was told to down shift through the gears to slow down. I still do it today and am teaching my 18 year old the same way. But what is the norm now with modern cars? I'd prefer the engine to slow down the car and not rely on the brakes. Not sure if modern cars with ABS and the like suffer from brake fade.
Brake fade is still an issue. Not as bad as it once was, but still there.
For a very LONG downhill, engine braking, rather than riding the brakes, is still important.

But, engine braking is no longer anywhere near as important as it once was for stopping.
One of the reasons that it used to be taught was to reduce WEAR on the braakes; not fading, but long-term wear. But, disk brakes (or disc brakes, depending on where your car was made) are no longer a project to replace, and are cheap. Clutch is now MORE work than it once was, and expensive. So, it makes more sense to replace brakes than to replace clutches.

I knew a guy who memorized things, instead of trying to understand them. Every time that he came to a stop, he would downshift and over-rev his engine!


What does a test instructor expect? Based on my son's 10 min. CA DMV test, not much I suppose.
1) Most cars NOW are automatic. A friend injured his left foot. He mentioned to the doctor that he has "standard transmission"; the doctor said "STANDARD for transmission is automatic; oh, you mean that you have a sports car with a stick shift?"
2) DMV written test sometimes has some questions that are based on suggestions or tips in the driver's manual, such as asking motorcyclists:
"When following behind a car,
A) look around the side of the car
B) look through the car
C) look OVER the car" (the answer that DMV insists on, but look OVER the SUV??!?)
Therefore, the written test MIGHT once have mentioned downshifting, but not anymore due to automatic transmissions.
DMV driving test doesn't CARE. And doesn't include any high speed stops.
(Can you go around the block and then park the car without hitting aanything?)

You should try the brakes periodically, to confirm they work. But, you should hardly ever be using them.
Which reminds me, ... with my mostly electric car, I really should slam on the brakes occasionally, or the rotors might rust.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com


Re: Down shifting a manual car to slow down

Berkeley
 

I think that engine braking is a great idea on long descents. But using it routinely as a means of slowing down doesn’t make sense as others have noted. Now if you want to impart an arcane skill, teach him heel-toe downshifting.  

 

From: ArcaneAutos@groups.io <ArcaneAutos@groups.io> On Behalf Of Matthew Spielberg via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2021 10:17 AM
To: ArcaneAutos@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ArcaneAutos] Down shifting a manual car to slow down

 

Test instructor does not care as long as he drives and stops safely.

Brakes are much cheaper to replace than clutches.

One alternative school of thought is that, coming up to a red light, if you downshift to second, you are already in gear if the light turns green on you.

On 6/25/2021 9:53 AM, Ken Chambers wrote:

While it may be fun and sporty to shift through the gears, doing so to regularly slow down is not doing your clutch any favors.  It's a whole lot more expensive to renew a worn out clutch than to change brake shoes or pads.

 

I taught my son to drive like you don't have brakes.  That is, slow down gradually using good judgement, of course, so you don't hold up traffic behind your car.  And every time you use your brakes you're using gas, in that it requires fuel to get up to speed only to waste it in the form of heat with brake friction.

 

All the best,

---Ken

 

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:34 AM sujit roy via groups.io <sujitroy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I learnt to drive a stick shift car in the UK and was told to down shift through the gears to slow down. I still do it today and am teaching my 18 year old the same way. But what is the norm now with modern cars? I'd prefer the engine to slow down the car and not rely on the brakes. Not sure if modern cars with ABS and the like suffer from brake fade.

What does a test instructor expect? Based on my son's 10 min. CA DMV test, not much I suppose. 

Sujit

-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250


Re: Down shifting a manual car to slow down

Matthew Spielberg
 

Test instructor does not care as long as he drives and stops safely.

Brakes are much cheaper to replace than clutches.

One alternative school of thought is that, coming up to a red light, if you downshift to second, you are already in gear if the light turns green on you.

On 6/25/2021 9:53 AM, Ken Chambers wrote:
While it may be fun and sporty to shift through the gears, doing so to regularly slow down is not doing your clutch any favors.  It's a whole lot more expensive to renew a worn out clutch than to change brake shoes or pads.

I taught my son to drive like you don't have brakes.  That is, slow down gradually using good judgement, of course, so you don't hold up traffic behind your car.  And every time you use your brakes you're using gas, in that it requires fuel to get up to speed only to waste it in the form of heat with brake friction.

All the best,
---Ken

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:34 AM sujit roy via groups.io <sujitroy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I learnt to drive a stick shift car in the UK and was told to down shift through the gears to slow down. I still do it today and am teaching my 18 year old the same way. But what is the norm now with modern cars? I'd prefer the engine to slow down the car and not rely on the brakes. Not sure if modern cars with ABS and the like suffer from brake fade.

What does a test instructor expect? Based on my son's 10 min. CA DMV test, not much I suppose. 

Sujit
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250


Re: Down shifting a manual car to slow down

Ken Chambers
 

While it may be fun and sporty to shift through the gears, doing so to regularly slow down is not doing your clutch any favors.  It's a whole lot more expensive to renew a worn out clutch than to change brake shoes or pads.

I taught my son to drive like you don't have brakes.  That is, slow down gradually using good judgement, of course, so you don't hold up traffic behind your car.  And every time you use your brakes you're using gas, in that it requires fuel to get up to speed only to waste it in the form of heat with brake friction.

All the best,
---Ken

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:34 AM sujit roy via groups.io <sujitroy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I learnt to drive a stick shift car in the UK and was told to down shift through the gears to slow down. I still do it today and am teaching my 18 year old the same way. But what is the norm now with modern cars? I'd prefer the engine to slow down the car and not rely on the brakes. Not sure if modern cars with ABS and the like suffer from brake fade.

What does a test instructor expect? Based on my son's 10 min. CA DMV test, not much I suppose. 

Sujit


Down shifting a manual car to slow down

sujit roy
 

I learnt to drive a stick shift car in the UK and was told to down shift through the gears to slow down. I still do it today and am teaching my 18 year old the same way. But what is the norm now with modern cars? I'd prefer the engine to slow down the car and not rely on the brakes. Not sure if modern cars with ABS and the like suffer from brake fade.

What does a test instructor expect? Based on my son's 10 min. CA DMV test, not much I suppose. 

Sujit


Re: Wheel Alignment for classics

David Russel
 

Custom Alignment in Mountain view on Wyandotte has a good reputation and apparently has experience with all sorts of cars and alignment systems.  Haven't used them myself.
David


On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 11:08 AM sujit roy via groups.io <sujitroy=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Where around Cupertino/ San Jose do you take your classics for wheel alignment?
My Triumph Stag '71  like the TR6 uses shims in the rear to adjust toe in and toe out. 
Sujit


Invitation: Los Altos Hills Classic Car Show

Ken Nelson
 



---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Sarah Robustelli <srobustelli@...>
Date: Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:39 PM
Subject: Invitation: Los Altos Hills Classic Car Show
To: Sarah Robustelli <srobustelli@...>


Hello Classic Car Owner,

 

The Community Relations Committee of the Town of Los Altos Hills would like to invite you to exhibit your Classic Car at the upcoming Los Altos Hills Classic Car Show Event on Sunday, July 25th, from 10:00 am – 2:00 pm. If you would like to participate as an exhibitor, please fill out the following form at www.losaltoshills.ca.gov/carshow

 

We ask that you have your car thereby 9:30 am, but no earlier than 8:30 am. Sharon and Neal Rayborn will be at the entrance to Little League Fields No. 2 (large field) to guide you into your display space on the baseball field.

 

After your car is in its display space, there will be canopies, live music, a food truck, and Lionel trains. You will be provided two meal tickets for the food truck. 

 

DIRECTIONS TO PURISSIMA PARK, 27400 Purissima Road (LITTLE LEAGUE FIELDS): 

 

From the south, follow Foothill Expressway to Edith and turn left at the signal, following Edith to the end. Turn left and almost immediately turn right onto Robleda, driving approximately one mile to Purissima, just before the Freeway 280 underpass. Turn right onto Purissima for about one mile. Turn left into Field No. 2

 

From the north, take Foothill Expressway to Arastradero Road; turn right onto Arastradero and follow to Purissima Road just before the Freeway 280 underpass. Turn left onto Purissima for approximately ¾ mile. Then, turn right into Field No. 2.

 

Thank you for your enthusiasm and participation in this event. If you have any questions regarding this event, please contact Neal Rayborn at 650-941-4409.

 

We look forward to seeing you.

 

Community Relations Committee 

 

 

 

 

Sarah Robustelli

Sr. Community Services Supervisor

Town of Los Altos Hills

26379 Fremont Road, Los Altos Hills, CA 94022

650-947-2518

 

 

 


Re: Anyone need a Lathe?

Ken Nelson
 

 A real bargain - wish I was there and had the space for it - 

Ken

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 9:20 PM David Russel <djrussel@...> wrote:
Not CNC, but inexpensive 



David 

Sent From Mobile Phone


Anyone need a Lathe?

David Russel
 

Not CNC, but inexpensive 



David 

Sent From Mobile Phone


Wheel Alignment for classics

sujit roy
 

Where around Cupertino/ San Jose do you take your classics for wheel alignment?
My Triumph Stag '71  like the TR6 uses shims in the rear to adjust toe in and toe out. 
Sujit


Assorted laughs

Ken Nelson
 



Some good laughs.




Re: 🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link

600miles
 

email is now Arcane. Zoom is weird to me


Re: 🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link

Red Fred
 

This FB shit is too weird for me.  What is wrong with a simple email.


On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 8:30 PM Lou via groups.io <c1937=znet.com@groups.io> wrote:
   
   
   
Hi Ken,               
    It wants me to log in to YOUR facebook with your password.       
Thanks,            Lou                   
   
   
   
   
On 6/13/2021 6:43 PM, Ken Nelson wrote:
At least wear your belts!  From an E. coast car buddy - 

(expand the link)

 
See the post that he shared.
   
 
    Facebook
 
   
   
 
   
🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link.
June 13 at 9:05 PM
 
View
 
 
   
   
 
This message was sent to citbuff@.... If you don't want to receive these emails from Facebook in the future, please unsubscribe.
Facebook, Inc., Attention: Community Support, 1 Facebook Way, Menlo Park, CA 94025
   
   
To help keep your account secure, please don't forward this email. Learn More
   
 


Re: 🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link

Lou
 

   
   
   
Hi Ken,               
    It wants me to log in to YOUR facebook with your password.       
Thanks,            Lou                   
   
   
   
   

On 6/13/2021 6:43 PM, Ken Nelson wrote:
At least wear your belts!  From an E. coast car buddy - 

(expand the link)

 
See the post that he shared.
   
 
    Facebook
 
   
   
 
   
🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link.
June 13 at 9:05 PM
 
View
 
 
   
   
 
This message was sent to citbuff@.... If you don't want to receive these emails from Facebook in the future, please unsubscribe.
Facebook, Inc., Attention: Community Support, 1 Facebook Way, Menlo Park, CA 94025
   
   
To help keep your account secure, please don't forward this email. Learn More
   
 


🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link

Ken Nelson
 

At least wear your belts!  From an E. coast car buddy - 

(expand the link)

 
See the post that he shared.
   
 
   Facebook
 
   
   
 
   
🔗 Lance Hellman shared a link.
June 13 at 9:05 PM
 
View
 
 
   
   
 
This message was sent to citbuff@.... If you don't want to receive these emails from Facebook in the future, please unsubscribe.
Facebook, Inc., Attention: Community Support, 1 Facebook Way, Menlo Park, CA 94025
   
   
To help keep your account secure, please don't forward this email. Learn More
   
 


Mehari project for sale

Ken Nelson
 

These photos are of a Mehari project for sale in Sacramento - part of a Citroen car and parts collection owned by Dave Lawson, who is incapacitated and needs to let this go to someone who will put it back together. $4000 OBO. The hood, tailgate and engine are there, although one engine cylinder has to be located but plenty of parts are available.

















Contact Dave Lawson jr at goaliedad@frontiernet.net for more details.




Ken


Re: Engine change

Lou
 

   
   
   
Hi Ken,               
    California used to have historic vehicle plates that were    
good for one time fee.   Then they changed that a annual    
luxury tax would be charged on the DMVs appraisal of    
that vehicle.   It's then became cheaper to buy a regular    
plate for an "old" car that has depreciated out.       
    Vehicle code 5051 addresses vehicles over 25 years old   
or are unique.   (Not to be confused with penal code 5150.)       
   
    Personal experience:   I bought the Superior Bus in Oregon.   
I used a friends address and paid $30 for two years registration.       
I took care to not get traffic tickets and once drove it to a car show   
in Spokane.    When I changed to California, the DMV charged   
$72 per year and they lost the Oregon title so now I don't have   
a clear Ca title.    The DMV could contact Oregon but refused   
to clear up their goof.           
            Lou           
1937 Chevy chassis with Superior bus body.   
   
   
   
   
           
                 
   
   
   
   

On 6/10/2021 10:54 AM, Ken Nelson wrote:
How about cars that  are1972 or older?  Does Ca. have a "historic" or "classic" car category as some states do?  I had heard there is one, but has anyone ever found this category and what are the licensing costs??

In Mich I can get a historic plate for $30 good for 10 yrs for car event use - what about Ca.?

Ken

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 12:57 PM Geoff Kirkpatrick via groups.io <britcarnut=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I don't know the ins and outs of dealing with the smog referees, but I know that having the car registered in your name in a different state won't enable it to be registered here if it's non-compliant. If you own property in Oregon, your best bet might be to simply keep it registered there. Although, it is technically illegal to keep an out-of-state registered car in CA permanently without registering it here, so that's not a foolproof solution either.

Geoff K.
   
   
   
   


Re: Engine change

Matthew Spielberg
 


When you get BAR approval for an engine swap in a car, that is approval for that one car.

If you take the exact same model in, you do the whole thing over again. Not blanket swap approval.

I did get BAR approval for an engine swap of an Acura engine into a Honda Civic. Prior owner did the swap, and got pulled over for lots of stuff. The judge said pay the massive fines, or sell it. 4 trips to the BAR station in Alameda.


Also note that K and N makes a replacement cone filter for the Nissan 240 SX. It comes with a piece of paper which says that the air filter is CARB approved. They also make the same filter with no approval document. Guess which one is more expensive.

On 6/10/2021 10:32 AM, Keith Murphy via groups.io wrote:
FYI



Links to BAR approved aftermarket parts

The Bureau of Automotive Repair has approved engine swaps and aftermarket parts which are licensed to be used on CA vehicles - they have to meet “laboratory”  test requirements and be labeled by BAR.

Like my now sold 1981 AMC with 4.2L 6 cyl engine, there is a BAR approved fuel injection system to swap in place of the 40 year old 2 barrel stepper motor carburetor and some of the emissions accessories that it uses  - but you can’t just slam on any fuel injection you want and naively assume your swap is sanctioned, matters not that tail pipe tests look ok, its all the “laboratory” testing of the specific fuel injection kit that had to be assessed mounted on the AMC 6 cyl engine specifically - that’s the rub.
Same goes for the Subaru engine swap into VW’s - it’s a specific approval, you would have to apply to BAR to put the exact same  Subaru conversion into a Corvair van for  instance, and if you change the model of approved Subaru engine for one not approved, like a turbo 6 cylinder Subaru, you will have to run the bureaucratic gauntlet to get that specific 6cyl engine “laboratory” tested - now everyone else after you will slap you on the back and thank you for spending all your $ to make that engine swap legal in CA.



On Jun 9, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:



I also like the fact that the State has approved that engine swap, and that there is an outside company (which makes the swap kit) that needs to preserve their reputation that the swap will work, and is smog legal.


On 6/8/2021 6:55 PM, Michael Rhea via groups.io wrote:
A note on Subaru engines. The 2.2engine is so much more reliable than the 2.5 engine No head gasket issues I have had many 2.2 Subarus all have gone over 300,000miles. I would go with the 2.2.  Mimr


On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 2:33 PM, Craig Parada

No problem, until it is. This is from 2003, and the State has learned a few things since then. 


On Jun 8, 2021, at 10:59, Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:



Someone that I know has a vehicle registered in Montana. A company, for a fee of less than $1000 formed a Montana LLC, registered the vehicle to the corporation, and mailed him the plates.

As I recall (memory may be faulty), the reason that folks are registering motor homes in Montana is that it is cheap. As I recall no sales or use tax, and registration may not have to be renewed.

https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/montana-vehicle-registration/renewal

Motorhomes are not a problem with the issue of "where does the vehicle reside", since, by nature, they are mobile.

This is done as a matter of course with motorhomes which are big and fancy and expensive to register in California.

Your results may vary.


On 6/8/2021 9:57 AM, Geoff Kirkpatrick via groups.io wrote:
I don't know the ins and outs of dealing with the smog referees, but I know that having the car registered in your name in a different state won't enable it to be registered here if it's non-compliant. If you own property in Oregon, your best bet might be to simply keep it registered there. Although, it is technically illegal to keep an out-of-state registered car in CA permanently without registering it here, so that's not a foolproof solution either.

Geoff K.
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250


Re: Engine change

Ken Nelson
 

How about cars that  are1972 or older?  Does Ca. have a "historic" or "classic" car category as some states do?  I had heard there is one, but has anyone ever found this category and what are the licensing costs??

In Mich I can get a historic plate for $30 good for 10 yrs for car event use - what about Ca.?

Ken

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 12:57 PM Geoff Kirkpatrick via groups.io <britcarnut=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I don't know the ins and outs of dealing with the smog referees, but I know that having the car registered in your name in a different state won't enable it to be registered here if it's non-compliant. If you own property in Oregon, your best bet might be to simply keep it registered there. Although, it is technically illegal to keep an out-of-state registered car in CA permanently without registering it here, so that's not a foolproof solution either.

Geoff K.


Re: Engine change

Keith Murphy
 

FYI



Links to BAR approved aftermarket parts

The Bureau of Automotive Repair has approved engine swaps and aftermarket parts which are licensed to be used on CA vehicles - they have to meet “laboratory”  test requirements and be labeled by BAR.

Like my now sold 1981 AMC with 4.2L 6 cyl engine, there is a BAR approved fuel injection system to swap in place of the 40 year old 2 barrel stepper motor carburetor and some of the emissions accessories that it uses  - but you can’t just slam on any fuel injection you want and naively assume your swap is sanctioned, matters not that tail pipe tests look ok, its all the “laboratory” testing of the specific fuel injection kit that had to be assessed mounted on the AMC 6 cyl engine specifically - that’s the rub.
Same goes for the Subaru engine swap into VW’s - it’s a specific approval, you would have to apply to BAR to put the exact same  Subaru conversion into a Corvair van for  instance, and if you change the model of approved Subaru engine for one not approved, like a turbo 6 cylinder Subaru, you will have to run the bureaucratic gauntlet to get that specific 6cyl engine “laboratory” tested - now everyone else after you will slap you on the back and thank you for spending all your $ to make that engine swap legal in CA.



On Jun 9, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:



I also like the fact that the State has approved that engine swap, and that there is an outside company (which makes the swap kit) that needs to preserve their reputation that the swap will work, and is smog legal.


On 6/8/2021 6:55 PM, Michael Rhea via groups.io wrote:
A note on Subaru engines. The 2.2engine is so much more reliable than the 2.5 engine No head gasket issues I have had many 2.2 Subarus all have gone over 300,000miles. I would go with the 2.2.  Mimr


On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 2:33 PM, Craig Parada

No problem, until it is. This is from 2003, and the State has learned a few things since then. 


On Jun 8, 2021, at 10:59, Matthew Spielberg <mspielberg@...> wrote:



Someone that I know has a vehicle registered in Montana. A company, for a fee of less than $1000 formed a Montana LLC, registered the vehicle to the corporation, and mailed him the plates.

As I recall (memory may be faulty), the reason that folks are registering motor homes in Montana is that it is cheap. As I recall no sales or use tax, and registration may not have to be renewed.

https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/montana-vehicle-registration/renewal

Motorhomes are not a problem with the issue of "where does the vehicle reside", since, by nature, they are mobile.

This is done as a matter of course with motorhomes which are big and fancy and expensive to register in California.

Your results may vary.


On 6/8/2021 9:57 AM, Geoff Kirkpatrick via groups.io wrote:
I don't know the ins and outs of dealing with the smog referees, but I know that having the car registered in your name in a different state won't enable it to be registered here if it's non-compliant. If you own property in Oregon, your best bet might be to simply keep it registered there. Although, it is technically illegal to keep an out-of-state registered car in CA permanently without registering it here, so that's not a foolproof solution either.

Geoff K.
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250
-- 
Matthew M Spielberg
21855 Redwood Road
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(510) 886-5751
(209) 586-0250

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