television


Kathy <ndb1499@...>
 

For a multitide of reasons my family does not own a TV & we have no
intention of getting one anytime soon. I have read the many posts
here on TV & heard Sandra Dodd talk about it. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we
don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?


SandraDodd@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/03 3:06:34 AM, ndb1499@bellsouth.net writes:

<< I understand the idea

of not restricting the time or content of TV if you have one, but we

don't. Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV

free?

>>

I just got e-mail from a mom who lives rurally in New Mexico, whose kids are
about my kids' ages, who are feeling very isolated, who don't live near enough
to come in to Albuquerque very often, AND she says they don't let them watch
TV.

I've written back to ask whether they don't even allow movies, and why.

That's like closing all the windows. Bad enough to live TRULY in the desert,
near where a new casino's being built and nothing more. They jump on a
trampoline and play basketball, and while those two things are wonderful things,
they can jump on the trampoline all day and not see any Shakespeare or pictures
of Africa or hear Japanese drummers.

We don't spring for cable TV but if we weren't right down the hill from the
broadcast towers we probably would.

I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.

From reading Howard Gardner's stuff on multiple intelligences in "Frames of
Mind," I just totally gave up my pro-text prejudice.

I was a good reader and a "good student," and I accepted that I was doing a
better thing by reading Poe and Dickens than just about anything else I could
have done. I no longer feel that way.

I thought about that really hard, about why my kids don't like books as much
as I did and I came to the conclusso healthy.

http://bookandsax

There's my summary of that, though.

And my collection of TV writings (not just mine) is here:

http://sandradodd.com/tv

Sandra


fishierich@...
 

Are there any other installers out there that are living TV
Free?

I wish we could be TV free. There are lots of issues my husband just goes
along with in the parenting world; but not having a TV is not one of them. I'd
also love to get rid of cable; what I could do with the extra $42 a month. So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time.
Margaret


Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
 

on 10/16/03 11:23 PM, Kathy at ndb1499@bellsouth.net wrote:

Are there any other unschoolers out there that are living TV
free?
If your whole family has decided not to have TV then is there anything to
discuss?

What if someone had written:

For a multitide of reasons my family does not own any books & we have no
intention of getting any anytime soon. I understand the idea
of not restricting the time or content of book reading if you have them, but
we don't.

If *your family* has decided they don't want TV then that's what your family
wants.

But if by "my family" you mean you and your husband, then what you're
wanting to discuss is restricting children's access to a resource. And it's
no different than discussing restricting access to books or the internet.

If someone doesn't have TV reception and cable is beyond their means, then
it's useful to discuss ways that kids to get access to the world beyond
their horizons.

Joyce


SandraDodd@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/03 11:27:08 AM, fishierich@aol.com writes:

<< So
the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes
home
then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the
TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time. >>

There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.

"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?

I just don't understand it.

Sandra


Betsy <ecsamhill@...>
 

**We don't spring for cable TV but if we weren't right down the hill from the
broadcast towers we probably would.**

We got satellite two weeks ago because our reception has been so scratchy and limited. My son literally danced around the house singing Hallelujah! (Put a smile on my face.)

We're in that awkward transition period where I'm still amazed how many times a day he can watch Scooby Doo, and he's probably amazed how many times a day I can watch Changing Rooms. <g> (Two TVs.)

Today we're off for a long day in the park with a small group of friends, and an evening sleepover with an out of town friend. So we're achieving a decent balance.

But any day now I'm going to submit to the brainwashing power of TV and start painting the house in hot colors. <g>

Betsy

**I think it's part of the text-worship of the English speaking world.
England itself is not even as visually oriented as lots of other European cultures
where street performances and music are more respected and common, but the U.S.
has that prejudice HUGELY ingrained.**

Yeah, a book *without* pictures is not "better" and more sophisticated than a book with pictures. Pictures add content and moving pictures add more content. If one wants to provoke text-loving people, ask them if they think National Geographic magazine would be better without pictures.

new topic
**When people who didn't watch the show anyway write and say "I was offended and won't watch your program again" they're lying.**

Well, I didn't watch the show because I don't watch TV news much. But I did read the full transcripts and I WAS offended. I didn't need HSLDA to tell me to be offended. In my letter I said I would "avoid their news shows in the future" because I didn't respect the thoughtfulness of their reporting. I also said "I expected better from CBS." I didn't claim to be a faithful viewer who was breaking it off with them forever.

I thought about suggesting that they fire the segment producer, but I decided not to be that pissy about it.


Tuckervill@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
ambdkf@earthlink.net writes:
As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap.
~~~~~~

Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?

I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.

Tuck


Tuckervill@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
ambdkf@earthlink.net writes:
There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies.
~~~~
Show me a study done on unschooled adults or kids, then I'll listen.

~~~~
My kids are 'amazing'
sponges and I do think it is worth a look at what things surround them.
No one said they weren't taking a look at what things surround their kids.

Tuck


fishierich@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/03 1:47:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@aol.com writes:
There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage
first! Wow.

"Good for you" about limiting input?
About limiting freedom?

I just don't understand it.

Sandra
OK! I have gone and read your TV Web page and I don't disagree with what you
and the other people have to say. I feel I am making the best decision for my
family my children are only 4 years and 18 months. Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. My opinion may change as
they grow older. They will have to make their own choices. Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?
What about the influence of commercial TV? Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. So does that mean I should not worry about commercial
TV? What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a 29
year old.
Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?
Margaret J


Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
 

I'm jumping in right here, after just joining, but what the heck.

I don't limit my children's tv time. I do discuss with them shows that I don't think are appropriate for them to watch and why, and we have had no issue with that. They have decided after viewing just a few minutes of some shows that they have no desire to see people behaving that badly, even if they are cartoon people (or animals or whatever). I also let them make the choice how much to watch, keeping in mind that there are so many more wonderful things to do than sit and watch tv. After all, it is all part of this world in which they live. If they don't ever see the bad or make their own choices for moderation now, how will they be equipped to deal with life as adults.

Lastly, there is so much on cable that is wonderful for kids and adults alike that I would hate to keep them all of from it because of some of the rottenness out there. If they are making choices to watch things like Emeril Live, This Old House, Magic Schoolbus and other such programs at 3 & 7, and self-limiting the time they spend doing it, how can I complain too much.

Dawn


Shyrley <shyrley@...>
 

SandraDodd@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/17/03 11:27:08 AM, fishierich@aol.com writes:

<< So the only happy medium is no television during the day and when daddy comes home then it can be on. I'm a lucky women because my husband is great; but oh the TV. Good for you to not have the TV influence your children or family time. >>

There MUST be people who are finding this list without going to my webpage first! Wow.

"Good for you" about limiting input? About limiting freedom?

I just don't understand it.

Sandra

I'm always astounded that people think their kids are dumb sponges who will be negatively influenced by every passing image on the TV.

Shyrley


SandraDodd@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/2003 5:46:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
fishierich@aol.com writes:
-=-Having the television on
all day is not something I want and I live here too. -=-


We don't have the television on all day.

You live there too, but if your priority is your children's learning, then
limiting input is going to make that more difficult.

-=-Do you think at 4
years my daughter should be the one deciding what shows to watch?-=-

I think (from years of experience at these kinds of exchangs) that what
you're envisioning and what I would be talking about would be two extremely
different things.

My short answer is "yes."

I don't think she will even BEGIN to choose the shows you're afraid of.

-=-What about the influence of commercial TV? -=-

"The influence" so far is that they know that the broadcast is free because
the sponsors paid for it. They were TINY little when we explained that
companies pay for advertising on TV, radio, magazines, billboards, and newspapers.
When the boys were little they were glad to know what toys were being offered
at which fast-food places, and they watched for those ads. Some toys they
weren't interested in; some they were. They were discerning even about fast food
toys.

Some people are teens or adults when they first realize that commercials
appeal to fantasy and self-image. My kids have known it since they were young,
and so not only did they discuss it and get over it, but they've freed up their
minds to think of loftier things.

We got a copy of GQ (Gentleman's Quarterly) last week, for articles on three
guys Marty really likes (The Rock, Conan O'Brien and Jack Black). That
magazine is mostly ads. Holly and I looked at a few and talked about how some
appeal to European fantasy, some to teens (not by SHOWING teens), etc. We had an
English version (not of the same issue)brought by a travelling friend, and the
ads were really different.

That's art, psychology, photography, commerce...
Holly is 11. She understands things now that I didn't understand until I was
in college.

-=-Do you not think that has an
affect on the gimmes and yes I did read about 'Magical Thinking and Spoiled
Children' and agree completely. -=-

My kids have never "had the gimmes."

I've tried to even change the words in which I will think about my children
and their environment. There are LOTS of phrases used as put-down and
belittlement.
"gimmes"
spoiled rotten
boob tube
junk food
brat
mindless tv
zombie
daydreaming (better connotation for some people than others)

It's possible to have long conversations with other parents which don't
require much thought, which don't say anything original, and which are very
disrespectful of children as a class and as individuals. Part of what got me where I
am today was a conscious choice NOT to go there.

My husband was at a "no children" barbecue with people from work, and they
got to badmouthing teens. What they were saying did NOT apply to our teens, and
it might not even have applied to theirs. They were just having a canned
conversation about how irresponsible and stupid teens are, and how hard it is to
be the parent of a lazy teen who never thinks. When Keith did say something
flattering about Kirby, our oldest, one of the parents made a dismissive
comment and they went back to their martyrly insults of people who had been
disallowed from the party.

Parents do it without thinking. They do it about school starting, they do it
when they use terms like
rug rats
drape apes
just a kid
young'uns (some manage to use that without insult; others intend to create
us/them)

-=-So does that mean I should not worry about commercial TV? -=-

It means I don't and lots of other people don't. You can worry about what
you want to worry about, but wouldn't it be cool if your 'worry' list could be
shorter?

-=-What about the news or just the news flashes? Regular prime-time news
coverage is not really something a 4 year old needs to hear about let alone a
29
year old. -=-

My kids don't watch the news. They could if they wanted to. They rarely
choose to.

-=-Is there a place for me in the chat group with my views on TV or should I
reconsider my involvement in this chat group?-=-

What are you really asking?
Would you feel better if people weren't honest?
Are you looking for a group that says whatever anyone does is great and all
parenting decisions are equally close to unschooling success?

You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected. It's part of learning about
unschooling for people to pick apart other parents' theories and ideas and practices.

Sandra
Sandra


AM Brown <ambdkf@...>
 

I'm always astounded that people think their kids are dumb sponges who
will be negatively influenced by every passing image on the TV.

Shyrley
I'm always astounded when people think that surrounding kids with negative
talk and images doesn't have an effect:)

I haven't been called stupid or been told that someone hates me in decades
- since being in school! Yet everyday on TV, children's favorite
characters are calling people horrible names and treating them in
unimaginable ways - so which is normal? As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap. As they get older I'm sure they will choose to watch all kinds of
things and that will be their choice (as it is now), but to think it won't
impact them in crazy. There are studies showing watching the negativity
presented on the evening news effects our bodies. My kids are 'amazing'
sponges and I do think it is worth a look at what things surround them.
With them I have seen living peacefully gives them strength to deal with
the tough times and hard issues that inevitably arise in real relationships
not ones dreamed up by people that have a belief that kids are mean
spirited and can't get along with siblings or their parents. But again,
for me it is not about TV good or bad, but about coercion. We choose not
to be coercive and figure out together how to live peacefully as a family.

Anna


AM Brown <ambdkf@...>
 


Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?

I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their
lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
I would have totally agreed had I not seen it in my kids. We don't speak
to each other that way, yet they were using the words they heard Arthur and
Sagwa used and then fighting with each other and friends. When they
stopped watching and were just hearing the words we, their extended family
members and friends used they stopped. I found it all fascinating. I
think it is great if it is working for your family. I'm not trying to say
anyone should do what we did. It just happened that is what worked for us.


I also meant to be clear in my earlier post, and I wasn't, that I think
this applies to adults too. Maybe it is just sensitive adults but I am
effected by what I see and so are my dds so maybe it is just genetic in our
case:)

Anna


Shyrley <shyrley@...>
 

Tuckervill@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 10/17/2003 4:11:17 PM Central Daylight Time, ambdkf@earthlink.net writes:
As I mentioned in a earlier post,
we have discussed it and my dds came up with something that works for our
family but until we really looked at it they would have just continued on
watching, thinking it was normal and appropriate to treat other people like
crap.
~~~~~~

Why would they think that if it wasn't modeled in your home?

I think my kids put much more stock in the way the actual people in their lives behave than in what they see actors and cartoons do on television.
Tuck

Same here. My kids are aware that our lives are different from stuff they watch on TV. They don't emulate Homer Simpson or attempt to fly like Superman. They know it is made up stuff. When we watch Eastenders they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other. Watching it doesn't make them want to do it but they find the shows interesting.
In the same way I like watching Buffy but don't feel the need to go out and karate bad guys. Its escapist fantasy. Sometimes its cathartic.
Its the same with adverts. They have never yet asked to go to MacDonalds or buy an SUV or eat meat cos they saw it on the TV. We talk about how people differ and just cos one family does something then it doesn't mean everyone has too.

If I wanted to keep them *pure* to my way of thinking then we'd never go out. Most of my friends eat meat. We don't. Most of my friends coerce and 'ground' their kids. We don't. etc etc.
They are capable of telling the difference between what goes on on TV, other families and our family and making choices. They can watch stuff without thinking it is 'ok' or 'normal' or even 'real'.

And if they didn't make their own choices about TV then it would be coercion on my part.

Shyrley


AM Brown <ambdkf@...>
 

My kids are pretty analytical about other people's behavior. They don't
emulate what they see on TV. They hang out with other families where the
parents
aren't as nice to their kids, and with some other kids who aren't as
honest as
they are but it doesn't make them want to be like those other families.
It
makes them appreciate their own lives more.
Do you feel like they were always like that? When the tv thing happened
with us they were 2 and 4 now 3 and 5. I wonder if the difference is that
at such a young age they take in info differently or if it is just them/me
(i.e. personality). Maybe we would have had a rough spell and then they
would have worked it out. I just knew we couldn't go on like we were and
stay sane. I didn't think their solution would be to stop watching the
shows but it was and they honestly haven't wanted to start back. It would
be ok with me if they did, I'd just want to talk about the behavior and how
we all feel about it. It has been really interesting to watch and I'm
sure it will continue to change.

Anna


AM Brown <ambdkf@...>
 

. They can watch stuff
without thinking it is 'ok' or 'normal' or even 'real'.
Again, I guess my question is could it be the age? (mine were 2 and 4 at
the time) I happen to love tv and movies and escapism. I would give just
about anything for a TIVO:) Maybe for Christmas this year. I think it
would be a great way to have tv work for you.


And if they didn't make their own choices about TV then it would be
coercion on my part.

Absolutely, that is why I don't make the decision for my kids. They have
decided on their own. I'm not going to say they have too because I like it
and because all the unschoolers think it is cool:)

Anna


Julie Solich <mjsolich@...>
 

When we watch Eastenders
they are interested in why teens on that show don't speak to their
parents or why pupils on Grange Hill bully each other.

Shyrley
I haven't seen Grange Hill for years. Is it still going or are you talking about old repeats?

Julie




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freeform@...
 

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:02:12 -0400 "AM Brown" <ambdkf@earthlink.net>
writes:
I haven't been called stupid or been told that someone hates me in
decades
- since being in school! Yet everyday on TV, children's favorite
characters are calling people horrible names and treating them in
unimaginable ways - so which is normal?
What are you watching? Rain sees stuff like that on SNL and Mad TV, but
she understand that it's all humor, satire. It's *funny*. I suppose on
CSI she sees people killing each other, which is not really normal... but
it's interesting, sort of like a detective story. She also really loved
reading Sherlock Holmes stories a couple of years ago, lots of murder
there, too. I don't think she sees it as normal. Actually, there are lots
of books that involve characters calling other characters names, or
hurting them - pretty much all of Dickens would be out if that was a
criteria, as would Archies comic books. Heck, most kids' books have
talking animals, which aren't normal, either... but the average 3 yr old
knows that that Brother and Sister Bear won't be moving in next door any
time soon...

Dar


fishierich@...
 

In a message dated 10/17/03 8:30:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@aol.com writes:
You're welcome to stay in this group, but if you express your views they
probably WILL be questioned and dissected.
Well, isn't this why I'm hear to broaden my views and opinions. Which will
hopefully make me a more open minded parent/person. I like the idea of people
giving honest opinions on subjects. No one said I had to agree; but I'm willing
to think about it.
Margaret