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Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

jenstarc4
 

"I know that I may disagree with some that we should just let them
choose what they want at the store (I think that there is major
marketing going on) but I do think they should have a choice and I will
offer them an alternative I know is safe and possibly healthier."

Marketing is not some big evil thing out to get our kids. There are
people who make careers out of it. It's fascinating and involves
psychology. It's not something to be feared or even avoided because one
thinks it's bad.

It's fascinating, and we can show kids how fascinating it is, rather be
scared of it and worry about it. Knowledge is Power! There's nothing
wrong with showing kids a different alternative either.

Sometimes, if we are at the check stand and the kids decide they want
gum, I'll buy a pack, right then and there, and sometimes I'll get us
out of line to go back to the candy aisle to have more choices. The
packs at the checkstand are considered impulse buys, and it is a
marketing technique. That is why, we sometimes take the impulse out of
it to really check things out. It's part of learning about grocery
stores and choices and being bigger and stronger than a marketing ploy.
We read ingredients a lot too... It's fun!


Re: Religion (was Limits- tv, sugar and other

Laureen <splashing@...>
 

Heya!

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@sandradodd.com> wrote:

-
We were in college, and English majors, and he was quite handicapped
by the fact that he didn't know ANY Bible stories. He didn't know
Job from Jonah, and had NO idea what Isaac would've been doing with a
knife and his son tied up. A reference to Jacob and Esau came up in
a class and he was like a deer in the headlights. I, meanwhile,
having grown up with the Bible and the King James Bible, was skating
through Shakespeare classes like I was a native of the 17th century
(relative to my friend Derek, anyway). I never forgot a well-read
adult being so profoundly ignorant of stories that are the basis of
Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Not good.

Rowan is in the midst of a fascination with gods. All of them. Doesn't
matter what flavor, denomination, color, creed, race... he thinks they're
all fabulous. He's constantly asking me what the god of something-or-other
is. The other day he asked about a god for the computer, and I was able to
pull St. Vidicon of Cathode out of the mix. =)

I was raised completely openly about religion. We went to every church in
town, and discussed the differences and similarities. I've read most of the
major books, and dabbled in the communities that spring up around most
faiths. My husband, OTOH, was raised by evangelical Nazarenes, and when
Rowan started asking about gods, his own reaction was so visceral and so
negative, he had to excuse himself from the room so I could handle the
discussion with equanimity.

For me, learning about religions, all of them, is a lot like learning about
the food of a given culture. You can't understand a people unless you know
what they eat, and why, and having at least a general idea about the
predominant faiths a culture holds really makes a huge difference in how
culturally sensitive and understanding you can be. So restricting
information about religion, just because it's got so much potential for
hot-buttoning, is really hobbling.

--
~~L!

~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/

Evolving here:
http://www.consciouswoman.org/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~


Re: A child who loves pet food

Robyn L. Coburn <dezigna@...>
 

We have a hamster. The book we bought at the same time said that "if we can eat it, hamsters can eat it". With the exception of the timothy hay, which would be plain ruffage/fiber and probably go straight through, most of the stuff in our hamsters feed is the same nuts, grains and seeds that you see in a trail mix - some of it pelletised. However it's probably slightly lower grades of nuts, grains and seeds, unless you are buying organically grown. You could make up a trail mix from raw ingredients, and btw it would be fine for the hammy.

I would have this advice about the snacks. First, give him his own snack bowl at his eye level so that he doesn't have to go into the pets' bowls - that could be be unhygenic especially if you hammy is anything like our Shimmer. Also read the ingredients and check the country of origin. TBH I would be far more worried about food with ingredients from China after all this recent business with Melamine, than the ingredients themselves.

I remember hearing about a food scientist asked what single food he would "take on a desert island" to survive and be healthy and he said canned cat food, because it contained all the proteins, fats, carbs and vitamins that are needed. I'll have to search out the reference. I think it was a radio program. In the live action Scooby Doo movie, there is a girl eating Scooby Snacks - all vegetarian.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

jenstarc4
 

Parents
feel (by the hundreds of thousands, in the world around us) that if
they prohibit a desirable thing, they will ensure health or
intelligence or creativity.
That is exactly how I grew up! We rarely had sugar treats in the house.
I made the Halloween candy, that I was allowed to keep, last until
Easter. I hid it in my little desk in my bedroom and would take tiny
nibbles off of pieces of candy each day. We didn't get any "sugar"
cereal, we didn't get cookies, unless my mom made them and put "healthy"
stuff in them, we didn't get syrup on pancakes, my dad made his own out
of berries from our garden, which tasted good, but still not my choice.

I HAD to eat what I put on my plate. I had to put a little of something
of everything that was served onto my plate, wether I wanted it or not.

All of this was for health reasons, and a direct reaction to the abject
poverty my father grew up in.

I have all kinds of food allergies and sensitivities. Which came first
on some of them? Force and a connection of my psycological dislike of
force associated with those foods, or did I not want to eat those foods
because I really shouldn't have been eating them because my body didn't
like them?

I won't ever get to know that. Some of my food allergies are fixed and
severe, some of them aren't. I had to land myself in the hospital to
figure it all out, rack up huge bills and file bankruptcy to absolve it.

I won't ever do that to my kids! It's something I feel really strongly
about. I have one daughter who has shown a sensitivity to dairy. If
she wants to eat it, I let her. We sympathize when she feels yucky, we
offer alternatives that are equally as yummy. My other daughter really
can't handle eggs, she avoids them totally because she knows it causes
pain.

There is a whole big world of food and I'm not going to limit it. I
offer more options, cool choices. Sugar is the least of my concerns.
Parents make such a big deal out of sugar, but I'll tell you, my lack of
sugary treats when I was a kid, didn't ensure healthy for me! Perhaps I
would've been healthier eating store bought cookies instead of pork
chops, which I have a very very severe allergy to, something I hated to
eat when I was a kid. My parents allowed me to drizzle raw honey on my
pork, so that I'd eat it. I'm allergic to honey now too. Guilt by
association I think.

I have huge food issues, and I'm going to do whatever I can to avoid
passing that on to my kids.

My sisters kids all have pretty severe allergies. My sister hyper
controls food, her kids were still sick. She finally did a food allergy
test and it turned out that they were severly allergic to garlic. If
she had given more choice and more power to her kids, they may have
figured it out on their own. Her kids won't get to know their own
bodies that way, they don't listen to their bodies, they listen only to
MOM!


Re: Friends was Can I talk here

jenstarc4
 

Chamille has always seemed to attract and be attracted to kids with
really dysfunctional families. Something that I've seen happen over the
years, is that in many ways, Chamille has shown those kids another way
of being in the world.

Most of the time kids always wanted to be at our house, not theirs, so
it was easier for me. Could you push that more?

Now that Chamille is older, she is less tolerant of bad behavior from
her friends. She's still patient and kind and open to friendship, but
she doesn't let people walk on her or abuse her in any way. A lot of
that is because she's learned, through years of playing with kids like
that, how to mediate and navigate in and around turmoil.

She's really grown a lot just in the last year in regards to how she
analyzes people and their behavior. It started when she was small and
tried to make sense of why so and so tried to steal things or why so and
so treated her stuff badly, or why so and so was mean to the other kid,
etc. We talked, and worked through scenarios of possibilities, actual
and imaginary.

She's always watched people, often, in such a way, where she has no
interest at all in actually talking or interacting with them, just
watch. Kids have always wanted to be around Chamille though, especially
when she was littler, because she had all the good ideas and she was
gracious about sharing everything and being fair.

I used to be concerned with all her friend choices, because mostly they
weren't the "nice" kids. At least one of those kids, we still see, and
she relies heavily on our family to show her kindness because it's the
only time she sees it. I think, she will survive, in part, because of
that.


Religion (was Limits- tv, sugar and other

 

-=-Pagans don't generally read Bible stories to their
kids. ... Or take
their kids to church even though they're aetheists. -=-


I'm not Pagan, but I've read my kids Bible stories and more often
just told them Bible stories. Some of those stories are peachy-keen
Bible stories. The only reason for a Pagan to have a fear or
aversion of Bible stories is if they secretly think they're true, or
somehow separate from the secular history of the world. The FACT
that one explanation for different languages is that it was to keep
people from working together to reach as high as where God lives is a
good thing to know. The fact that there are flood stories in many
cultures is cool to know when geological evidence of a huge flood in
the Middle East comes along. Ideas about what happens after death
are common to all people, because people try to make sense of things.

There's a twenty-questions-meme-thing going around I filled out on my
blog today, and one question was about "superstition." I answered it
like this:

14. Why do people still believe in the supernatural?
Lightning, thunders, darkness, wind, sun, fear of lack of water, fear
of too much water. Elemental forces and people's natural urge to find
patterns.

I've offered to take my kids to church. When we go to a wedding or a
funeral, I coach them on expected behaviors in different kinds of
churches. Holly and I have gone just to go. She's gone with other
families.

I don't expect a vegetarian to bring hot dogs home, but I wouldn't
say "good idea!" if a vegetarian told a child "hot dogs will kill you."

I had a friend in college who was raised by a unitarian mother and an
agnostic-to-atheist physicist father, in Los Alamos, New Mexico, in
the 60's. It was a hive of geekdom. I lived down the hill in
Española, in normal-world.

We were in college, and English majors, and he was quite handicapped
by the fact that he didn't know ANY Bible stories. He didn't know
Job from Jonah, and had NO idea what Isaac would've been doing with a
knife and his son tied up. A reference to Jacob and Esau came up in
a class and he was like a deer in the headlights. I, meanwhile,
having grown up with the Bible and the King James Bible, was skating
through Shakespeare classes like I was a native of the 17th century
(relative to my friend Derek, anyway). I never forgot a well-read
adult being so profoundly ignorant of stories that are the basis of
Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Not good.

So if any of you have been hiding from the Bible, don't be that way.
At least find some story books. If you want to balance out stories of
heaven or hell with stories of Valhalla or the boatman at the River
Styx, or if you want to balance baby Jesus stories with baby Krishna
or The Great Pumpkin, it's better than not saying anything at all.

Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat is happy and painless
and it might be fun for you to look up "the real story" (or what you
might have in a Bible, Torah or Koran near you). The coolest
difference for me is the way Joseph revealed himself to them in the
Bible, and how he knew so much about them while they were relatively
clueless: They were speaking Hebrew, which he understood. He only
spoke Egyptian in front of them the whole first visit and sent them
back to Canaan to bring their father. He kept one brother as a
hostage. The musical simplifies that into a beautiful short version,
but the long version is very cool, too.

There was an interview with Ted Neely who plays Jesus in Jesus Christ
Superstar. A TV interviewer in Florida was asking him about the
differences between the musical then (in the 70's) and now. He said
when it was new it was considered blasphemous, and now it's like a
spiritual Sesame Street.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


A child who loves pet food

 

I have permission to share this on the list. I have some ideas but
I'll let others go first. I'm getting behind on dishes and laundry
and all, and didn't want this to wait. It's a quote from here down:




We have a cat, some fish and a hamster. My 5yo son likes to eat
their food. His interest started with cat treats about five months
ago. I let him have a few, thinking he'd eat one or two and let it
go, but he kept asking for them. I would give them to him, but my
husband felt very uncomfortable after researching the ingredients in
the treats we had. So we told my son that the treats were made for
cats, and might make a person sick to eat too many, and stopped
letting him have them.

Soon after that he wanted to sample the fish food, and again I gave
it to him once or twice before becoming uncomfortable with it, and
told him again that it was made for fish, not for people.

Then he started eating the cat food, and the ingredients in it didn't
worry us as much as the treats or the fish food, so we'd give it to
him when he asked. Then he asked in front of our babysitter, and I
was embarrassed. I gave it to him, but later told him that people
think it's gross and he should only have it when we don't have
visitors. I was hoping his want for cat food would go away, and it's
decreased, but he still likes to eat it. He'll walk by the cat dish
and munch on a few every now and then. I'd like for him not to eat
pet food. But I don't want to create a situation where he's sneaking
it.

And now he wants to eat our hamster food, which is seeds and grains
and nuts. It kind of grosses me out, and my husband is very
uncomfortable with it.

I don't know what to do ... I've bought him seeds and nuts from the
grocery store, but he doesn't like those the same way he likes the
hamster food.

I'd love suggestions - this is one of those things where I don't
honestly think our cat or hamster food would be harmful for him, but
it's not socially accepted to eat pet food. My in-laws in particular
would be mortified if they knew we had allowed this. And even if I
said no if he asked for it while they were here, the question in and
of itself would indicate that we have allowed it.

Finally, I'd like to add to the thank you's you've gotten around the
seventh anniversary of this list. I love this list, and am grateful
that you maintain it and post so much. I really hope to meet you in
person someday.


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

 

-=-
http://theexcellentadventure.com/elementalmom/2006/10/02/self-
limiting-the-saga-of-the-flower-cake/
This is what I wrote about that stage in our journey.-=-

Beautiful.


Re: A more serious aspect of Racing Ideas

Miriam Mason <mimmason@...>
 

Sandra that makes me so sad to hear. I also have a Mom that didn't value my choices unless they met with her and my father's approval, and even then, they were fearful to even support those choices, fearful of my failing at them, not being good enough. It is valuable to look back in order to really see the distance you have come! I am so very grateful every day for the kind of life we are able to joyfully live, that my kids feel me there with them with the wind on their backs, sailing into their futures freely, without any judgment, and for the kinds of friends I have attracted from my own healing as a result.

Life *is* good!

Warmly,
Mim
(still cosleeps with both and nurses the 6 year old)

Sandra Dodd wrote:

My dad raced go-karts when I was little, when we still lived in
Texas. I remember going and watching one race. I was probably
four. And my dad took me for a little ride on the dirt road in
front of our very rural house, and my mom threw a fit, and I never
got to ride again. Then she got jealous because my dad's racing
friend was the (also grown; they were in their 20's, all of them)
daughter of his boss at work. So my mom made him sell his go-kart.
He also sold his Harley 74, which I remember him rebuilding and
painting inside the house that winter.
That's a sad thought for me this morning, to realize that it wasn't
just the kids' spirits my mom was willing to crush. My dad was a
sweetie, and my mom was not.
Keeping pictures of bad choices and meanness in the back of my mind
is a way I remind myself how and where I want to be, though. It's
no good to obsess or wallow in it, but sometimes it's good to glance
and remember.
A friend's mom died on Friday. They lived in the same city but
hadn't spoken for five years. He's 28. She was 51. She was a
substance abuser of one or two sorts, and his parents had divorced
when he was ten or twelve. He suffered a very irritating stepmother
who had declared aloud (to other women who are still around) that she
was going to have that man, before she broke up that marriage. They
had another child. My friend is the only child of the first
marriage, and his mom died suddenly of a heart attack, leaving a
mortgaged house full of stuff and a new car with a big loan. It
makes me think I'm glad I'm working to maintain good relations with
my kids, and it makes me want to shovel a bunch of stuff out to the
thrift store so Holly won't be stuck with so much physical detritus
someday. (I probably won't, but it makes me look around with
sympathy for my kids.)
Keith has an armored-combat hobby that's doing damage to his joints.
He's picking his motorcycle up from the shop today. My dad could fix
his own motorcycle and go-kart. Keith's not as much a mechanic as
that, but Keith inherited his brother's motorcycle. I worry a
little, but I do not shame or pressure him.
My kids didn't have racing urges, but Marty has a jeep with a
skateboard in the back, and I could caution and remind and shame, but
I see it as part of the joy of his life.
Moms who put their own comfort above the needs of the male people in
their lives can end up without any male people in their lives. It
happened to my mom, and to my friend Josh's mom.
Sandra


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

 

-=-I think it would be irresponsible to fill the house with food that
I know causes an allergic reaction or only buy food that is basically
junk -=-

When a statement like this is made there's an implication that others
do that and don't feel irresponsible about doing it. But nobody does
that.

Also, the term "junk" when used of food, or books, or TV, or games,
or comic books, or music... it's not a move toward clarity.

To refer to things as "junk" and "crap" is a way to seem to say
something strong without actually thoughtfully thinking of words.
They're not good words for thinking about the choices our kids might
make, and REALLY not good words for discussing the world with them.
If one says "you can make choices" but then says "Do you want this
good food or this junk?" then it's manipulation and not information.

Sandra


Re: Limits- tv, sugar and other

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
 

Any time there is talk of limits it enevitably turns to discussions
about tv and sugar. It's strange how these are such big issues when
there are so many *other* things that all parents, even unschoolers,
don't expose their kids to because of they believe those things are
harmful. I mean, Pagans don't generally read Bible stories to their
kids. Most parents don't bring home marajuana or cigarettes to their
kids just in case they might be interested. They don't make a point
of buying things made by child labor. Or take their kids to see
abortions, just in case the kids might want one someday. Or take
their kids to church even though they're aetheists. 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I am agnostic/atheist and I do take my kids to church when I go with my husband ( who is a Church going man).
I do not FEAR it.
My kids do not want to do drugs or go see abortions but they want to see TV and eat sugar stuff ( they are eating jelly rings right now.
I do not fear sugar or TV.
MY 2 year old daughter Gigi has been wanting the Sleeping Beauty horse for 4  or more months now.
Yesterday we went to Target again just to see the horse. She has been waiting for it. We have bought other stuff for her she wanted but now
she really wants the horse and just 10 minutes ago jumped on my lap and told me that.
I was going to wait for Christmas to give her the horse ( we are pretty broke this year).
But I am just going to see if I can get it to her  before that.
I do not fear consumerism on my children. I have always given anything they ask for if we could afford.
They are  amazingly patient and wonderful about getting things and waiting and choosing what they want most.
I thing all this is about FEAR.
Why would you FEAR TV?
or Sugar?
People live with those fears and that holds them back in their life. When you unschool you need to be willing to
question those fears. IF you live with them you just make your world a lot smaller.

 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Help with budgeting

mnbyelich <nbyelich@...>
 

Hi, I need some ideas on an issue I'm having with my son please. we
are new to unschooling, and particularly radical unschooling, and so
far things are really cool but I'm having a hard time in this one
area. My son is 6 yo and the oldest (and first grandchild on my
side) and we have always given him most of the things he has wanted
but recently, we have had to really start budgeting our money. So,
although I've been trying to say "yes" to him (including things
like "how about putting that on your christmas list, how about
putting that on your bday list, let's look at getting that next week
when we don't have to get this other thing for you today, or since we
just got this wii game ($65) we'll try for it another week...etc)
he's is just not satisfied with this unless he gets something THAT
day.

It is not like he used to get things every day (when I wasn't on a
stricter budget) but lately it seems that he is asking for things
everyday that he just must have or he begins crying and whining.
It's not like he would get things everyday before and I have just
briefly discussed our trimming down of the budget (although I do say
that with me not working there is less money in the house) but this
really seems to be a new behavior.

I did read some of the posts on spoiling and agree that giving kids
what they want doesn't spoil them so I'm not really worried about
that, it's that I'm wondering what he is needing from me or his life
that he keeps needing things. I guess as I write this, I'm thinking
that I really need to be stimulating his interests to a greater
degree. Although, with a budget which is dwindling daily :( I find
less resources to get him or take him to interesting places.

I don't want to squelch his desires and his wants but with a limited
budget I really feel strapped but find it hard to say no. For
example, this morning he asked for a book...fine, I love buying him
books...but we just bought him something yesterday so I suggested
that we get the book from the library...he started crying and whining
that he wanted a NEW book that he hasn't read before. We just went
to the library yesterday and have lots of unread books around the
house. Obviously he is needing something and not getting it! Any
advice, suggestions, insights are greatly appreciated!

natalie


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

rebecca <rebecca20642002@...>
 

Hi Lauren
 
My five year old has severe food allergies.  We discovered them three years ago this thanksgiving.  My three older children and I ended up taking him to the hospital.  It was one of the scariest events of his wee life.  Actually it was a rough year that year for him all around for his health.  He now has an epipen with him (me) at all times.  I always carry food for him.  He doesnt eat anything unless he has cleared it with me.  He is very good about it because he still remembers his reaction to nuts.  We have nuts in the house and are always careful to scrub everything they come near.  My other children are very careful as well.  They are like watch dogs around other people and food to make sure their brother is safe.  As awful as it was that they all witnessed the near death reaction they all understand him allergy and his medicines. 
And each thanksgiving we are nutfree and thankful for everyone's health.
 
Happy Thanksgiving
Rebecca

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Lauren Seaver <yis4yoga@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Lauren Seaver <yis4yoga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Food Sensitivities and Unschooling
To: alwayslearning@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 12:18 AM






I've been following (with great interest) the posts on food allergies/sensitivi ties. I feel my 20 mo ds has sensitivities to some foods (due to some physical and behavioral reactions, including rashes, hives, irritability, nightwaking, etc.--thank you foodlab group!) Anyway, changing the diet in our household has made a huge positive difference (ds and I are *currently* gluten/dairy/ soy/corn and egg free).

I'm always very interested in this topic as it relates to unschooling (as I come to this area with my own food baggage as well. I've forwarded both Sandra's and Joyce's food pages to other groups/friends when discussing food topics, as I've learned so much about trusting *myself* and my child when it comes to food from this shift in perspective on the issue.) I'd love to hear more about families who have children with food sensitivities in their homes and ways you all have partnered with your children in their learning about food...especially advice on the toddler years, as that is where we are currently.

Right now, I haven't felt the need to 'limit' our diets at all, and have actually felt that the variety in our diet has grown due to my learning about so many wonderful foods I had never really explored before. (I've grown to love cooking--something I thought I would never be interested in!) Also, there are so many substitutions that we can buy in the store or make at home that there is almost always an alternative that seems just as good as (or close enough to) old favorite foods. I don't feel like my son or I are ever deprived of foods, and I really try to make sure if we are going somewhere to bring a version of the food being served that fits (what I feel are) our current diet needs (ie, to a pasta dinner I'd bring rice pasta w/ our own sauce, etc.) Although River seems totally satisfied with this, I worry at times that I am being too controlling about the issue--while at the same time I feel it is my role as his mother to provide/offer foods
that are going to be both yummy/appealing (to him) and healthful--not hurtful (the foods we avoid currently give him a rash on his bum that seems to make bowel movements extremely painful--avoiding the foods seems to erase this issue.) As he is only 20 months, I don't feel that it is realistic or appropriate (right now) to expect him to make the connection between a specific food he eats and a reaction which may not occur until the following day (like the bum rashes--which I feel are the *worst* reactions because they seem to be very painful), so I take this responsibility on myself. As he gets older, I know he'll be able to make that connection, but for now, I'm just trying to provide a variety-filled environment in regards to food. How have you all done this, with your toddlers? I really try to follow his lead and prepare foods he likes/enjoys. He has definite preferences (as we all do) and I just try to follow these...I really want to partner
with him in this. Any tips on this topic are greatly appreciated!

On a side note, I had a real ah-ha moment yesterday in the food arena, when he asked for his (r)ice cream (he'll run to the fridge and point to the freezer to tell me). I got him a dish of it, and was also cooking broccoli at the time. He took a few bites of the ice cream, but when he saw the broccoli, he ran to the stove and wanted it. He ate the entire crown with some salt and pepper, and left the rest of the ice cream to melt on the table. Something I might not have believed could happen before learning about the joys of *trusting* our children to make their own food choices...

Thank you all in advance--I'm learning so much from this list every day!

Lauren :)

"Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine."
~the Buddah


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

Laureen <splashing@...>
 

Heya!

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Lauren Seaver <yis4yoga@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm always very interested in this topic as it relates to unschooling (as I
come to this area with my own food baggage as well. I've forwarded both
Sandra's and Joyce's food pages to other groups/friends when discussing food
topics, as I've learned so much about trusting *myself* and my child when it
comes to food from this shift in perspective on the issue.) I'd love to
hear more about families who have children with food sensitivities in their
homes and ways you all have partnered with your children in their learning
about food...especially advice on the toddler years, as that is where we are
currently.

http://theexcellentadventure.com/elementalmom/2006/10/02/self-limiting-the-saga-of-the-flower-cake/
This is what I wrote about that stage in our journey.


As he is only 20 months, I don't feel that it is realistic or appropriate
(right now) to expect him to make the connection between a specific food he
eats and a reaction which may not occur until the following day (like the
bum rashes--which I feel are the *worst* reactions because they seem to be
very painful), so I take this responsibility on myself.

Well you have to help him with the connections, but 20 months was plenty old
enough with Rowan. If the reactions are severe, the connection can be made.


On a side note, I had a real ah-ha moment yesterday in the food arena, when
he asked for his (r)ice cream (he'll run to the fridge and point to the
freezer to tell me). I got him a dish of it, and was also cooking broccoli
at the time. He took a few bites of the ice cream, but when he saw the
broccoli, he ran to the stove and wanted it. He ate the entire crown with
some salt and pepper, and left the rest of the ice cream to melt on the
table. Something I might not have believed could happen before learning
about the joys of *trusting* our children to make their own food choices...

I have noticed with both my sons that a lot of the time it's not about the
food, per se. It's that they want me to prepare something for them. They
want me to have touched their food with love, and they don't care if it's
marshmallows or brussel sprouts; they want a "food is love" moment. After
seeing it in them, I see it in myself, too. An apple that's washed and
delivered whole somehow isn't nearly as attractive as one that's been cut up
for them, arranged on the plate, maybe with some nut butter or honey dip.
It's the attention that matters, not the food so much.


--
~~L!

~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~
Writing here:
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/

Evolving here:
http://www.consciouswoman.org/
~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~ ~ * ~


clarification Re: Can I talk here?

Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
 

It sent David and I down a long conversation back to the moment when we decided to give Simon and Linnaea the right to choose their own foods. It was a conversation about knowing that humans are biologically driven to seek out sugars and fats because that was what they sought out in the EEA (Environment of Evolutionary Adaptedness, a jargon rich term from university meaning the time before humans became growers and storers of grain). It was a conversation about giving it a go and relaxing into that fear and moving from the need to protect a child from themselves to a point of helping them to embrace their choices.

--------------
Rereading this I realized it would be clearer if I had written : "David and I talked about the moment when we decided to give Simon and Linnaea the right to choose their own foods. That moment, 7 years ago, when we talked about knowing that humans are biologically driven to seek out sugars and fats
because that was what they sought out in the EEA (Environment of
Evolutionary Adaptedness, a jargon rich term from university meaning
the time before humans became growers and storers of grain). It was a
conversation about giving it a go and relaxing into that fear and
moving from the need to protect a child from themselves to a point of
helping them to achieve their choices."


Re: Can I talk here?/no tv or sugar

DJ250 <dj250@...>
 

Don't know if this has been suggested or not, yet, but you may want to
try raw milk. Depending on where you live, it can be legal to sell in
stores or not. In MD, we get it from a farmer in PA who delivers to our
area (slightly illegal, I guess but he covers his butt by labeling the
food "for cats and dogs-pet food"). It's ridiculous but that's what has
to be done (regarding the labeling). Anyway, many people who have
trouble with pasteurized milk do just fine with raw. It has to do with
the fact that pasteurization involves heating milk to a certain degree
which destroys natural enzymes which aid in digestion. I have more info
that I can email you personally, and anyone else interested.

Best wishes,
~Melissa :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: AlwaysLearning@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlwaysLearning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JoyErin
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:41 AM
To: AlwaysLearning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Can I talk here?/no tv or sugar

I too tried the lactose free milk - didn't work. I, then tried soy based
dairy product replacements.
After a short time they bothered me too, though I seemed to be able to
have
more of it before the
symptoms would start. I did some research and back then what I found
suggested that it's the protein
part of the casein that was the problem which is why I also couldn't
tolerate soy (had the same protein
part).

I learned of my dairy issues a year or two before beginning to learn
about
unschooling. I remember
really being negative with myself for not being able to instantly stop
eating all the 'bad' foods. When
unschooling a parent also changes how they think in their head to
themselves. It helped to listen to
my body instead of internally fighting with myself in my head and
missing
all the body clues. For me
there is some kind of connection with my dairy reactions and how much
fat is
in the product I'm eating.
The more fat the quicker and tougher my digestive reaction seems to be.

This last year I've suspected I also have a wheat 'intolerance' now and
possibly other common ones
like corn. They don't obviously affect my digestive system like milk
would,
why I say intolerance and
not allergy. It's mostly how I feel tired and the stuffy or runny nose
all
the time when eating wheat products.
Strangely I have found after not eating wheat or dairy until the
symptoms
disappear that when I do eat any
dairy product my tolerance of how much I can eat has definitely
increased.
I always get the intolerance
symptoms but the digestive system seems much stronger(?).

So there must be some kind of connection with what else is eaten or how
well
the digestive system is
as well as the culprit food. This could be one of the explanations of
why
sometimes there are symptoms
and sometimes there are not for some people with food issues, as well as
why
sometimes the amount tolerated
can be different.

Among people who don't unschool or know how to listen to their bodies
if/when I mention any of these food
issues I have, I usually have responses of disbelief that I could have
figured so much out about how my body
responds in these ways. I find that a bit strange! ;-)

Joy




_____

Thanks for the info Pam. I'll definitely give it a try. Lilly tried
lactose free milk once and she still got diarrhea. I've read that the
casein in milk is the problem for some people and she was having
breathing
difficulties at the same time (back before we figured out what it was
and
when her digestive tract was backed up) which is one symptom of a casein
allergy but it would seem to me if it were a true allergy that she would
have the symptoms each time she ate it. I've never had her tested for
it.
She just figured out what she could tolerate and what she could not. I
think she'd be willing to try this product though if she could eat more
dairy without worrying about what it would do to her. Thanks for the
info.

My dd just asked me what I was writing and I told her it was about
giving
kids a choice over what they eat even when I makes them feel sick. Her
response was something like,"Why wouldn't someone let their kid choose?
It's their body after all!"

My kids see traditional parenting on TV mostly and aren't exposed to
that
mentality very often in real life. They really don't get why people
control
their kids so much. We talk about it but I'm sure it just seems foreign
to
them because they don't get exposed to it very often.

It floors me that that girl who killed herself based on the fake myspace
boy
(mother of girl next door.that's been in the news) was only 13 years old
and
she cared so much about what this boy, that she had never met, thought
of
her. My girls are 12 and 13 (almost 14) and its interesting to watch
them
interact with people on multi player role playing games because when
someone
turns on them and gets mean, they quickly put it behind them and move
on. I
actually feel worse and dwell on things like that more than they do.
They
are strong and sure of themselves and other people's opinions of them
just
don't matter unless they have a lot of respect for the person.

Angela



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11/21/2008
6:24 PM


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

Kelli Johnston <KelliJohnston@...>
 

hi, we have food allergies here in the house and cant really have cross contamination in the kitchen (so no outside food should be cooked here either). Anyway, we just fill our house with lots of "safe" food that covers the goodies to fruits and veggies. My kids so far just want the sweet or salty and it doesn't matter what brand it is or where it comes from. When we are out and about, it can get a little tricky but for the most part I always bring something that they can eat and it hasn't been a problem at all.

On a side note, we have been trying out enzymes as they "claim" to help food sensitivities. I am hoping at some point the kids can use them for times that they are out and want to try something that might give them a reaction.

I personally believe that one should "Set the stage" but let those in the house choose for themselves. I think it would be irresponsible to fill the house with food that I know causes an allergic reaction or only buy food that is basically junk but I dont have arbitrary rules for where and when they can eat....or making sure they are eating exactly as I want them to. I know that I may disagree with some that we should just let them choose what they want at the store (I think that there is major marketing going on) but I do think they should have a choice and I will offer them an alternative I know is safe and possibly healthier. If I ever encounter resistance, then I will re-evaluate but so far there isn't any as long as their desire for whatever particular food sensation is satisfied. FWIW, my kids are 4 & 6.Kelli



EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

To: alwayslearning@yahoogroups.comFrom: yis4yoga@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:18:32 -0800Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Food Sensitivities and Unschooling



I've been following (with great interest) the posts on food allergies/sensitivities. I feel my 20 mo ds has sensitivities to some foods (due to some physical and behavioral reactions, including rashes, hives, irritability, nightwaking, etc.--thank you foodlab group!) Anyway, changing the diet in our household has made a huge positive difference (ds and I are *currently* gluten/dairy/soy/corn and egg free). I'm always very interested in this topic as it relates to unschooling (as I come to this area with my own food baggage as well. I've forwarded both Sandra's and Joyce's food pages to other groups/friends when discussing food topics, as I've learned so much about trusting *myself* and my child when it comes to food from this shift in perspective on the issue.) I'd love to hear more about families who have children with food sensitivities in their homes and ways you all have partnered with your children in their learning about food...especially advice on the toddler years, as that is where we are currently. Right now, I haven't felt the need to 'limit' our diets at all, and have actually felt that the variety in our diet has grown due to my learning about so many wonderful foods I had never really explored before. (I've grown to love cooking--something I thought I would never be interested in!) Also, there are so many substitutions that we can buy in the store or make at home that there is almost always an alternative that seems just as good as (or close enough to) old favorite foods. I don't feel like my son or I are ever deprived of foods, and I really try to make sure if we are going somewhere to bring a version of the food being served that fits (what I feel are) our current diet needs (ie, to a pasta dinner I'd bring rice pasta w/ our own sauce, etc.) Although River seems totally satisfied with this, I worry at times that I am being too controlling about the issue--while at the same time I feel it is my role as his mother to provide/offer foodsthat are going to be both yummy/appealing (to him) and healthful--not hurtful (the foods we avoid currently give him a rash on his bum that seems to make bowel movements extremely painful--avoiding the foods seems to erase this issue.) As he is only 20 months, I don't feel that it is realistic or appropriate (right now) to expect him to make the connection between a specific food he eats and a reaction which may not occur until the following day (like the bum rashes--which I feel are the *worst* reactions because they seem to be very painful), so I take this responsibility on myself. As he gets older, I know he'll be able to make that connection, but for now, I'm just trying to provide a variety-filled environment in regards to food. How have you all done this, with your toddlers? I really try to follow his lead and prepare foods he likes/enjoys. He has definite preferences (as we all do) and I just try to follow these...I really want to partnerwith him in this. Any tips on this topic are greatly appreciated! On a side note, I had a real ah-ha moment yesterday in the food arena, when he asked for his (r)ice cream (he'll run to the fridge and point to the freezer to tell me). I got him a dish of it, and was also cooking broccoli at the time. He took a few bites of the ice cream, but when he saw the broccoli, he ran to the stove and wanted it. He ate the entire crown with some salt and pepper, and left the rest of the ice cream to melt on the table. Something I might not have believed could happen before learning about the joys of *trusting* our children to make their own food choices...Thank you all in advance--I'm learning so much from this list every day!Lauren :)"Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine."~the Buddah


Re: Can I talk here?/no tv or sugar

 

-=-It helped to listen to my body instead of internally fighting with
myself in my head and missing
all the body clues. For me there is some kind of connection with my
dairy reactions and how much fat is in the product I'm eating. The
more fat the quicker and tougher my digestive reaction seems to be.-=-



Everybody eat more fruit! Drink cherry juice!

That's my intro to say my gall bladder was removed when I was around
40. I wish I had gone with alternative medicine, but I was afraid
and in pain. Cherry juice, everybody!

Since then, I can't tolerate a large quick meal. There are other
factors that make it worse or not so bad. Stress, nerves, heat,
eating too quickly, oily food, butter.

When and if I really do finally want to have that full-on enchilada
dinner, though, it needs to go with a calm outing when I'm at leisure
to take my time, and I ask for a take-out box and plan in advance to
take half home. I never ask for extra cheese. <g> I don't add sour
cream. If I want the traditional/fancy egg over easy on the top of
an enchilada plate... Then it needs to go with Immodium AD to keep
me from spending a lot of time in the bathroom when others are
sitting and talking. I don't say anything about it, I just plan in
advance. It's rare, but it's doable for special occasions.
Recently, a birthday party. A couple of years ago, a friend's
wedding reception.

This culture discourages people from paying attention to their own
body's cues. When I saw Kirby doing it, and Marty, when they were
just little guys, I started thinking and trying to learn to feel what
I could feel from really thinking about what I thought I needed or
should avoid, and it made a big difference. I'm still learning,
because I started late.



Sandra


Re: Limits- tv, sugar and other

 

-=-Having limits or no limits comes in when...-=-

I think instead of having the dichotomy of limits or no limits, it's
clearer and more nurturing and more partner-like to have no arbitrary
limits.

Limits for the sake of limits, bedtime by the clock, TV on a timer,
eating pre-measured amounts of mom-chosen foods at pre-set hours is
at one end. The other end seems to be a wildly imagined "never sleep
until you pass out, watch TV as much as possible, and eat whatever
you can find as constantly as you want."

Creating an unschooling nest for learning about food and sleep and
all should involve soft, clean beds and interesting homemade food
easily available, and a comfortable place to watch TV with a batter
in the remote and maybe a table with some art supplies in there too.

Making it easy for kids to eat and sleep and play and learn doesn't
need to involve a crazed dash toward limitless "freedom."

Choices and options in the hundreds is way more freedom than "Sit
like I told you to sit and eat what I told you to eat, or else." But
it can create a muddle to think of it as "no limits."

Sandra


Re: Food Sensitivities and Unschooling

 

http://sandradodd.com/eating/sweets

I added this to the "true tales of kids turning down sweets" page.

-=-I had a real ah-ha moment yesterday in the food arena, when he
asked for his (r)ice cream (he'll run to the fridge and point to the
freezer to tell me). I got him a dish of it, and was also cooking
broccoli at the time. He took a few bites of the ice cream, but when
he saw the broccoli, he ran to the stove and wanted it. He ate the
entire crown with some salt and pepper, and left the rest of the ice
cream to melt on the table. Something I might not have believed could
happen before learning about the joys of *trusting* our children to
make their own food choices... -=-



Yesterday someone showed me a place out in the wilds of the internet
where someone had gone off about the evilness of me, and that I had a
(n evil) site as big as Wikipedia. LOTS of people collect good
quotes, on their computers, on paper, in notebooks. I just figured
out a long time ago that it was possible to collect them where other
people could get to them too, and I'm going to keep on doing it.



Sandra