Re: TV - question, please don't flame me
More re-tread, with apologies, from another list. The address of that list
is at the bottom, and the message # if anyone here wants to go and read more of
a past discussion on this.
Msg # From: SandraDodd@aol.com
Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:26 am
Subject: Re: Pornography and teens (long, true)
<< But boys get their curiosity blocked because there isn't any
acceptable "pornography" for boys. >>
Whether it's "acceptable" or not, there is a fair amount of written
fanfiction involving characters from comic book series, fantasy series, and
even video games. Some of it is just adventure/romance, and some is at least
as graphic as romance novels. Maybe it's for and by girls, though, I don't
Two nights ago I wanted to play Destruct-o-Match on Neopets. Both Marty (14)
and Holly (11) play Neopets, and I have an account (just so I can play that
pattern-falling cascading game myself without having to ask Marty) and our
Mac Powerstrip we use to get to recent files, recent programs, recent sites
was FULL of porn stuff. I didn't open any, the titles themselves were gross
enough. OH!! I had wanted to get to Netflix to cancel getting a DVD I had
just rented (which didn't work).
Well anyway, usually I use it to get to Neopets games page.
I called Marty in, and said "Marty, this is a bit much."
He said "Most of it was pop-ups mom, I didn't really look at it all much.
I asked him if he could cover those kinds of trails over so I didn't have to
know and so Holly wouldn't accidently see. I said he needed to open a bunch
of CLEAN websites and look at some better stuff so that would be on the
trail. He told me he could delete the trail. I said I didn't think he
could, that I had even asked Leon, one of the developers, who said it only
works on the Mac OSX version, not 9.
But Marty is a teenaged boy, so besides his porn curiosity he has a computer
facility. And he figured out a three-step process to erase that list through
If I say "NO, never ever even look," I risk losing the communication we have
within which he will just tell me what he's seen and knows and where it came
But that story has gone two days now. At first he was embarrassed and "Mom,
okay, I know, don't talk to me about it anymore." So I said I wanted to talk
to him one more time the next day, about whether he knows the reasons people
object to kids looking at porn.
The next day came and had nearly passed without me remembering, when he came
and said, "Okay, mom."
"You wanted to talk to me about porn."
"Oh! Thanks. I hadn't remembered."
So I asked if he knew the objections. He said no. I said, "In all your
reading and listening you haven't heard objections to porn?"
"Well, that its illegal for me to see it."
I talked to him about degradation of women, about creating unhealthy and
unreasonable expectations in marriages, and that normal sex wasn't like that.
He said "Well, DUH, mom!" I said some people were messed up by WANTING it
to be. He seemed surprised that that could happen.
I told him that some of those who are filmed are not quite volunteers and
told him two stories, one of the mom of girls his age he's known his whole
life, who was photographed as a kid for posed stills which were sold out of
Oklahoma. It was shocking for him, and I don't know much detail, but naming
a person he knew who had been victimized was effective. I told him of a
drug dealer and illegal snake importer my younger half-brother had taken up
with some years back, who videod him and his then-girlfriend, and used it as
blackmail (she was from a Mormon family) to get them to deliver drugs for him.
Then I said I didn't think it was the most horrible thing people could do, to
look at pictures, but he REALLY needed to be careful because it's illegal and
I didn't want the county coming to talk to me about anything they were doing.
(I had a similar moment with Holly later that evening about going outside in
a teensy fancy t-shirt and nylon pajama pants, no shoes, in January, while
she has a sore throat. "Illegal," I told her, for parents to allow that,
and let's not draw attention to a loose lifestyle by being outside in the
cold without proper attire.)
I told Marty that women tend to prefer word-porn and so they don't get
caught, but pictures were easy to find and more offensive.
I told him one danger was obsession. I didn't go into that much, because
some of the original arguments about obsession were the cost. I did have a
friend years ago who had a large collection of porn videos that had cost him
$60 to $80 apiece. Had he had the internet, his obsession wouldn't have
ruined his finances, nor left a mountain of evidence to shock his mom.
(That friend had a sex change operation since then, so I think it was his way
of dealing with deeper psychological and biological situations, and that was
way too much to tell Marty.)
Then I asked him if he had ANY idea how much trouble some other boys his age
would get into if their parents caught them having looked at that kind of
stuff on the computer. He said "Lots?" I talked about loss of computer
accesss, grounding, and physical spanking by some big grown man.
He said he had been mostly embarrassed when I first talked to him because he
had had friends in the house. They couldn't hear us, but he had to leave
where they were, talk to me, and go back in there, and it just embarrassed
him. I said in those worst-case situations, the parents would have called
all of the friends' parents, said to come get them, told them why, and some
of THEM would have been grounded and in trouble just for hanging out with
someone who had looked at porn.
I doubt he really fully believes me on those things, or maybe he can't fathom
a parent doing that to a child.
I don't mind having a kid who can't readily imagine being hit by an angry,
grown man or can't imagine being told "You stay in your room for a month and
don't even touch a computer."
For anyone who has read this far and is offended, I didn't mean to throw this
out to offend anyone. It's a candid, current situation involving a real teen.
And usually the trail on this real teen's internet use has Neopets, AoN (a
role-playing game), humor sites, and in-person friends' journals. People
who know Marty wouldn't think of him as a nasty kid. He's not. He is coming
into adulthood, though, and he's curious.
I think similar to make-up, if it is declared "only for adults," and a girl
waits and waits and WAITS until she can use it and is then unlikely to just
let it go unused, a boy who is slapped away from any glimpse of nudity until
he's eighteen is GOING to immerse himself in his newfound access for a while
the moment he gets a chance.
Keith and I were out grocery shopping, and talking about Kirby turning
seventeen this year. I said I used to want to have a big eighteenth birthday
celebration for him, like a graduation, but I no longer want to do that. I
don't want to declare an end to his learning, nor to his living with us if he
wants to stay. Keith said he had no ideas either, but that was fine. Said
"Well, I'm not going to get him drunk and take him to a whorehouse, so
there's probably going to be no rite of passage."
Kirby wouldn't want any of that anyway. ANOTHER good thing. When he turns
eighteen, he'll have more legal rights, but there won't be the effect of huge
tension released. He'll have no restrictions suddenly lifted.
I know this won't suit everyone's belief system, but it is working with us to
produce mature, calm, considerate, communicative teenaged boys. They're not
angry with us, they're not reactionary, they're not sneaky.
quotes are other people
Msg # From: SandraDodd@aol.com
Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:20 am
<< My dh has shared that he believes that when the family is
unhealthy, porn more likely beomces an addiction to fill a hole. >>
I agree. I think it's the same as other "internet dangers." If a child has
nothing else to do and no affirmation of wholeness, the internet can be an
escape from what seems a lack of life. But when life is big and real and
happy, the child will be there, in his own real life.
<<I really appreciate hearing how you've dealt with so many of the
issues I've raised. Your perspective and style of interaacting with
your kids is refreshing and gives me hope.>>
Thanks. Sometimes when I write those things so plainly I worry that I'll
cause more damage than good in some families. But since things ARE going so
well with my boys (and I hope it stays that way) it seems worth continuing to
anyone who wants to read the rest of that discussion can join
and go to message # 55403
and the responses, or go back two days and see the original question.
Barbara Chase <barb@...>
We have a family business, and both my dh and I work at home. This relates
to allowances because our dd (4.75) brought it up this way. Just a few
days ago she told me that she was old enough to be part of the business now
and that she wanted certain jobs and would like to earn money for them. We
agreed that for now she is in charge of shipping and receiving. I hadn't
given much thought about an allowance yet, but I hadn't planned on having
it be tied to chores, and I still don't consider it this way even though
that's how our dd requested it. I think to her, it's something she can do
to be part of the family and to help out, which is what she wants to do.
This thread has been very timely for me, because now I have been trying to
decide what is a reasonable allowance amount as well as what we can afford.
Thanks for all of the ideas and input.
<<Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
college or got a really good job?>>
<<The unschoolers I know are not wholly grown, still teens...
Did you forgot about us? <g>
My older (23) daughter is a lyricist and writes music/lyrics for our theater group as well as directing plays. She's been working for a promotion company and is about to leave for a six-month solo trip, keeping in contact with the company so that she can work here and there around the country to make some more money during her travels. When she returns, the job--and entrance into management--will be there if she wants it.
My younger (almost 21) daughter is in college at a prestigious art school. They accepted her portfolio (and even gave her a partial scholarship based on it) without any SAT scores. They said they were very impressed with her talent AND with the amount of activities/learning experiences she had had.
I don't read this list all the time anymore, but whenever I drop in I find something interesting!
Re: tv watching
<<Tv lowers the brain waves to the pre-sleep state, so things that are going
in hypnoticcally and it's really hard to make a conscious choice to turn it
but I haven't seen it seem true with kids who weren't limited.<<I've read this in two books, and heard it parotted by "educators,"
I wonder if this varies by how one's brain is wired or what one's prefered learning style is.
I'm a very visual learner. Bedtime stories put me to sleep almost immediately. My son is very auditory and has never fallen asleep while I was still reading. My husband is very auditory and choses to nap in front of the TV set. I can't fall asleep with the TV on unless I'm especially sleepy. But when I feel ill, I like to curl up and sleep on the couch listening to National Public Radio at barely audible level. Clearly the people in my family respond differently to different media.
Re: tv watching - addiction
Nanci K. <aisliin@...>
But you will still watch a tv show you find boring?Yes it's addictive personality and tendancy. I have the same
problem. I will keep at it till I have a headache or am kicking
myself over the time wasted when I wanted to get something else
done. For me staying away from broadcast tv on the whole is a
better plan, even when I am, say, visiting my parents or something.
Just like it's not a good idea for an alcoholic to hang around with
drinkers or in bars. It's a problem that addicts are made to feel
embarassed about, and told does not exist, and told they are just
making excuses. It is a real problem. I know lots of addicts and
alcoholics and those affected by them. I grew up in a alcoholic
home, and I recognize the tendancies in myself and stay away from
drugs, alcohol and other addictive things that cause problems for
me, like the tv. My husband is a 15 years recovering drug addict
and has problems getting too wrapped up in computer games especially
and has to police himself. Thomas, my older son, has similar issues
and problems. We choose as a family to avoid broadcast tv for this
reason in addition to the behavior affects it was having on Thomas.
Re: Money & Power
**How do you involve kids in these kinds of discussions? If money = power in this society, then how do we reverse this trend in an unschooling family? Who gets to decide what we can spend money on and what we can't?**
I think these are valuable questions.
I don't have full answers, but awareness is the first step.
Not shutting kids off is valuable. I think there are some parents who fell guilty saying "no" and can't stand to listen to begging or whining. They want to get through the uncomfortable moment quickly and won't tolerate any negative feedback from their kids. Clearly that kind of refusal to listen doesn't promote involving kids in decisions. (I don't think very many unschoolers act like this, but lots of mainstream parents do.)
For me, because I say "yes" to my child so much of the time, I'm not at all uncomfortable when I say "no", because at that point I'm saying "no" for a reason. I'm no where near perfect and I'm sure there are times when I say "we can't afford it" when it might actually be possible to scrape up the money if *I* really wanted to. I probably need to be better informed about our budget and keep better track of our monthly discretionary spending.
But, my child does feel free when we are having a spending debate to get my attention by offering to kick in part of his allowance for something. By offering to put his money where his mouth is (not that I prompt him to do that) he encourages me to see that he is serious.
I hope others have more and better stuff to say.
**Our unit holds about 35
hours, I hear the current models hold 80 hours.**
Hi, Dan --
We just got the Dish Network PVR and it says 100 hours.
The first time we tried to record something the recording stopped when my son walked up to the TV and tried to change a channel. Is that a limitation of the PVR or a limitation of my knowledge of how to work it?
Re: TV - question, please don't flame me
I was looking for what I had written about pornography and Marty, and found
this instead. I'm still looking for the other one and will bring some of it
here rather than try to remember and write it all.
This was posted on the unschooling discussion list last summer--those who've
read it can merrily skip on by, but it will be new to some here. And as
preview, this is a kid who HAS looked at some porn, and not on TV (we don't have
cable) but computer.
The first reference was, I think, about someone who had come and ranted that
our recommendations about unschooling showed us to be lazy hedonists. The
rest is me, June 7, 2003.
-=-I pretty much got sick to my stomach reading that post. If only she
could see the wonderful things that have come from this unschooling life
Well, the same day I read that we were lazy hedonists, this happened:
The final day, graduation from the Junior Police Academy, they march in like
soldiers, doing face drills and filing in and pledging allegience (we briefed
Marty on that this week; he said he knew it from a humorous version in the
bathroom, just leave out the joke parts)...
Ceremonial this'n'that, certificates, pins, Marty was awarded a certificate
as "Top Gun" (electronic target practice guns, F.A.T.S. and paintball guns)
which also came with $15 gift certificate to a sporting goods store. Seven
eight other kids (of 32) got awards like most pushups, most improved, most
physically fit male.
Of Marty, I thought "All that Nintendo Duck Hunt paid off."
Then we ate good local barbecue, served up by their instructors, and as
people were taking pictures and saying goodbye, I went up to one of his
and sat to thank him. He said Marty was just a joy to work with. Chit chat
Then he said the big thing. (Brace yourselves. And I really like the guy.)
He said "You can always tell a kid who comes from a family with discipline,
He said Marty was really well behaved and enthusiastic and cooperative. (I
wish I had the exact quotes there; I wish I had VIDEOTAPE.)
I said "We hardly have any rules at our house. We just tell them to always
make the best choice, to be helpful and not hurt people." (That's maybe 85%
close to exact words; I need my audio back!)
He said they had talked about a lot of things like that over the week.
I wanted to make light again, because it was maybe kinda tacky to counter
"you can always tell" with "GOTCHA! Wrong! CAN'T always tell." So I said,
"Y'know, Monday was really his first day at school of any sort. It was his
day taking notes or anything like that."
"Oh, right, he's homeschooled, right?"
"Most of the homeschooled kids I've met were not so good at social
interactions. Marty's really confident and outgoing."
I told him he had gone home and re-written his notes from Monday, and had
been really focussed on his assignments and getting ready for the next day.
said "Initiative! Good!"
Probably there was nobody there who was as eager and excited to be there as
Marty was. So we made some more sweet chitchat and that was it.
I could hardly wait to get into the van and close the doors so I could tell
Keith, Marty and Holly what he had said about discipline and rules. We
about that most of the way home. Holly can hardly believe that some people
think that rules upon rules will make people "good" away from home. It just
makes no sense to her.
Marty said one of the kids got in bad trouble this afternoon, threatened with
being sent home, for throwing pieces of rubber at other kids, and for
throwing paintballs. One broke on the exercise track. NOT at the targets,
mess was supposed to be.
Marty couldn't fathom why someone would be at such a cool place and act that
But Marty had also told me there were two people there who hadn't even wanted
to be there. I didn't ask (yet) whether this kid was one of those. Marty
was exhausted when he got home and went to bed at 10:00.
This evidence is really important, that someone who works with kids a lot
(Police Athletic League volunteer), someone who's in law enforcement, sees an
enthusiastic, well-behaved, cooperative kid, and is confident that he came
house with discipline and rules.
Discipline and rules? All-fired flaming hedonists? (Whatever the
Neither of the above.
Nanci K. <aisliin@...>
It's not a ban if a child decides not to watch something.I can see your point about the specific definition of the word ban,
and perhaps in our case boycott or abstaining would be a better
choice. However I think the original question was about unschoolers
living without tv, not about parents choosing to ban their children
from tv specifically. So we are unschoolers living without
broadcast tv, just our movie collection, and I was more speaking in
terms of how and why that decision was made and how it affects our
lives and all that.
**Just two days ago Holly mentioned about some movie (she's asleep and I dont'
remember which) "Yes, but it doesn't have any kids in it." So she still
pretty much prefers movies about kids, or at least with kid/teen characters as
witnesses to the action.**
I was at the movie theater last night and saw a cardboard cutout promoting Cheaper by the Dozen with Steve Marting. Twelve kids in one movie!
Tangent about Dirty Dancing and Music, was TV - question,...
Nanci K. <aisliin@...>
One of Dd's all-time favorites is "Pretty Woman," and anotherFunny thing, but my 5 year old son's all time favorite movie (has
been for about 2 years) is Dirty Dancing (which he calls "Baby"
after Jennifer Grey's character.) He doesn't get squirmy or turn
away from the one real sex scene in the movie, but then it's very
implied and artfully done and not graphic at all. He often says
(like if we're reading a book or watching a show where little boys
say Ewwww! or something about kissing) "I like kissing! Kissing is
nice. So is cuddling." He's very physically affectionate that
way. We call him our Cuddlebug.
But what I think he really loves in that movie is the music, and the
dancing. He wants to sing and dance and play music. It's his
passion. How we wish we could get him a piano!! He's wanted one
since he was 2. You should see how rapt and mezmerized he gets
whenever we are around live music (a fair amount in our artsy
community) and how he makes friends with the musicians and soon has
them showing him notes scooching over on their piano bench for him.
I love the way he lays his palm or his cheek against an instrument
when they let him (bass, piano, guitar, etc) to FEEL the music.
Re: tv watching
I do think there is something about the electronic mediathemselves. I love
television and movies and the computer, but I have too oftenwatched
something or stayed online past when I really wanted to and notbecause what
was on the screen was more interesting than what other thingsawaited me.
You continue to watch tv/stay online past the point that you want to
do so? If I have that right that's pretty interesting.
What was your tv situation like when you were growing up?
Did you have the freedom to watch as much as you wanted to?
This has never happened to me with a book. I will stay up way toolate to
finish a great book, but have no problem putting down a book thatis boring.
But you will still watch a tv show you find boring?
Patti, trying to understand
on 10/18/03 2:05 PM, Nanci Kuykendall at email@example.com wrote:
It was a mutual ban, where we talked withIt's not a ban if a child decides not to watch something.
It's a *good* thing to help kids recognize what effect the world has on them
and gain power over something that's affecting them.
Banning something, eg, taking control away from the child for the child's
own good, does the opposite. It tells the child he isn't as powerful as the
thing so someone must keep it away from him to protect him.
Money & Power
Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...>
How do you involve kids in these kinds of
Another thing--do your kids get allowances?Well for us tv is not about money but more about
family preferences and comfort levels, as I explained.
We cannot afford cable right now, but we stopped
watching tv when we could still afford it. Perhaps
later when our kids are older, and we have the money,
we will consider getting it again for the range of
interesting and entertaining things it brings.
Our kids get some allowance. I would like to be able
to give them .75 to $1 a week/yr of age, but we cannot
afford that right now. My husband, our sole income,
has been out of work in this lame economy for over 7
months. There is an illustration for you of where a
college degree gets you. It's get you a loan that you
have to defer while you are on unemployment. However,
we do give them several dollars once a month and we go
specifically to a "General Store" sorta like Walmart,
a little of everything, so they can get themselves a
little something. That's about as much as we spend on
luxuries for ourselves, relatively, so we feel it's
fair. Food luxuries are in a different budget and I
generally make everything from scratch so my labor is
involved. For candy they have a jar that gets filled
twice a month and they can eat it all in a couple of
days or make it last. Usually they choose to make it
last. If one of them wants to eat it all and the
other wants to make his last, then they split it in
1/2 and the sugar craving one eats his half.
As to power, we ask them to have responsibility for
some of the chores around the house (mainly picking up
toys and clothes) and they also help voluntarily
sometimes with cooking, dishes, stacking firewood, or
other chores. We only exert "parental authority" when
it involves safety, destruction of our things, or
abusive behavior. We talk about what being a family
means in terms of helping each other, sharing
responsibilities, supporting each other in all ways,
and being together. We talk about fairness when they
want us to do their share or they are making more work
for us and refusing to help with it; like refusing to
help clean up mud and soap and whatnot (from "potion
making") in the bathroom sink that has clogged up the
drain; or making a big food mess from spills or
playing in the kitchen and refusing to help clean up.
For the most part we don't have to even ask, but when
they need reminding, they are really reasonable about
helping out most of the time. We don't often pull
rank unless it's behavior so bad they get physically
removed from the room or house until they are ready to
Re: tv watching
on 10/18/03 1:13 PM, SandraDodd@aol.com at SandraDodd@aol.com wrote:
Hard because you're hynotized by 600 black dots, or hard because it'sI had problems as a child turning off a show -- even one that I recognized
at the time as pretty low brow like Lost In Space -- in the middle. I needed
to see how it would resolve. But that's engagement and closure.
I remember having a different attitude towards TV when I worked. We really
enjoyed watching reruns during dinner: MASH, Mary Tyler Moore, Cheers. They
were comforting and familiar and relaxing and it would have been fine if
they'd gone on all evening. Playing a game was too much effort.
But it wasn't addiction since I have no problems walking away from TV now.
Re: Emulating Arthur (was: television)
Oh this is so funny and EXACTLY what I was going to post about.
I had this ah-ha "Southpark" moment last night while watching the VH-
1 special on the creators of SP. I have never really watched SP, my
brother would have it on occasionally, but I never really sat and
watched the show.
I was sitting in the front room after reading all the television
posts on this list and watching this show. After it was all over I
laughed to myself because it was just too funny how I have become
one of those parents overreacting insanely to the idea that my own
children somehow cannot be "trusted" with their own opinions.
Boy, it has been a real wake up call to the way I've spent the last
year with my dd. It seems my parenting and my ideals on how I would
*parent* have kind of been just outside of my grasp. Adding a new
sibling to our family has kind of rocked our last year. I think I
was such a fabulous parent when I only had 1. I have had to learn to
be a parent to 2 children which has kind of shaken me off kilter.
I have really needed this discussion and it has enlightened me in
many ways...not just about TV, but on all other *restrictions* we
have unsensibly created. Oh what a week of clarity I've had. I would
equally enjoy some discussion on how all of your unschooled siblings
relate and work things out/argue/etc.
Because, it turns out, the subject matter of the movie is
exactly the thing I had been doing: Parents overreacting insanelyto the
idea that children will hear bad words in movies.
Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>
My 5 yo gets $5/week -- enough so that she can buy a small toy if she wantsMy son get 5 euros a week, which is now something like $5.50. We had the
same experience of him wanting to spend it all the first couple weeks, and
then learning to save towards something he wanted more.
By having an allowance, Tim discovered that the value of money is in having
more of it. He is far less likely to buy little stuff or icecream cones (on
days when I'm not buying!), and much more likely to save and get something
he really wants. It's helped him think about what he really desires and
values. We do still buy him things, of course, or we help him buy more
expensive things. But it seems like we all buy less this way. Seeing him
be frugal about his funds can help me remember that money doesn't grow on
Exactly. I tell Tim that he shares in our wealth because he's part of our
family. In the same way, I ask if he would help with things around our home
because he is part of our family. At 7, he does some things now without
being asked. But when I ask, he's generally happy to help. To me, it's
sort of the same attitude many parents use, that chores and money are
related, but in the happy, friendly way (you're part of the family) instead
of the mean threatening way. I don't see the need to be mean about it.
Re: tv watching
on 10/18/03 12:13 PM, SandraDodd@aol.com at SandraDodd@aol.com wrote:
Do you really think television itself is physically holding on to people,
I do think there is something about the electronic media themselves. I love
television and movies and the computer, but I have too often watched
something or stayed online past when I really wanted to and not because what
was on the screen was more interesting than what other things awaited me.
This has never happened to me with a book. I will stay up way too late to
finish a great book, but have no problem putting down a book that is boring.
TV - question, please don't flame me
Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...>
Hi! Welcome! I've never seen any flaming on this
list, ever. We're all grown ups here.
My question is for the people that do not put limitsWell we don't have any pornography in our home, but we
do have some movies with pretty explicit love scenes.
Shakepeare in Love is a great example because there is
a lot of very obvious sex in the movie and we watched
it together recently. My son Thomas, who has special
needs that I just went into regarding tv in another
post, has really sophisticated taste in storytelling
and movies. He wants to be a director. He loves
Lawrence of Arabia, Fiddler on the Roof, and
Shakespeare, as well as action movies. So he
specially requested this movie and has been watching
it recently. When we get to the sex parts he hides
his face and/or asks us to fast forward. It's not
ditrubing to him, but he doesn't want to see it. He
says "I know what sex is. It's grownups kissing and
cuddling, and doing other stuff. I don't know what
other stuff, because I am just a kid." But he doesn't
want to watch it, even though he finds merit and value
in the rest of the film. When he watched Franco
Zeferelli's Romeo and Juliet, there is slight nudity
but no overt sex, so he was quite comfortable with
that and watched it about 6 times while we had it from
the library. He'll be 7 in Dec.
Re: And yet another new one
Julie (firstname.lastname@example.org) wrote:toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
<<We visit my parents there several times a year. Did you grow up in Jamestown?>>
<<I did. Went to ps here. I graduated in '78.>>
I graduated from JHS in 1990, and my dad taught English in Lincoln Junior High & then the high school. You graduated right about the time my dad tried to pull my sister and me out of school (after reading John Holt & others), but then the school system threatened a law suit and he backed down. Times have changed... :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Bennink
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] And yet another new one
> It's a small world, Dawn. My hometown is Jamestown!
> We visit my parents there several times a year. Did you grow up in
I did. Went to ps here. I graduated in '78.
> My husband was born and raised in Endicott, and his dad was an IBMer,
> too. We live minutes from the Endicott exit on rte 17, so feel free
> to stop by if you need a break on your way to Kingston. :)
> I'll definitely check out www.nyhen.org and join the list. Thanks!
You are most welcome. I think you'll find it extremely helpful.
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