Forgetting - Senility


Herbert Lewis
 

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




johannakurz
 

For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
I always had bad memory with names...but througout my life...so had my father...believe that it is genetic.

Johanna 



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 18:44 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Merilee Olson
 

I’ve gotten terrible with names.  I used to be really good at them.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:
For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
I always had bad memory with names...but througout my life...so had my father...believe that it is genetic.

Johanna 



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 18:44 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Becky Lindroos
 

One of the reasons I retired was because I was having a harder time remembering the names of my students. These guys were 5 years old! It’s not good for your self-esteem if your teacher doesn’t even remember your name and you’re 5 years old and it’s February!

I’m losing memories of book titles and authors which I used to be quite good at. I had a good memory for dates and historical things. I had no memory for algebraic equations or geometric formulas or biology words. I was fine with remembering my scripts in plays and I occasionally had nice roles. (I used to do quite well with Bible verses and poetry and the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution and Lincoln’s Gettysburg address. Oh what else did we have to memorize in school?).

(A teacher friend told me about someone who came in bragging about having memorized the names of the Popes. Ya. My friend asked her “For what reason?” The friend didn’t know. - lol! - Me: Because they were there?)

The last couple weeks my mom was losing all of it and had every sign of aging that Herbert wrote about. I guess she died of natural causes including bones breaking, head and body bleeds, loss of memory (all kinds), loss of senses. She stuck it out and hung in there just as long as she possibly could. She got to 97 years 9 months and that’s the longest lived in my family as far back as we have records on. So I guess she died right on time and I was somewhat glad because she was soooo ready - her bags were packed (so to speak).

Becky

On Oct 26, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Merilee Olson <merilee.olson@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ve gotten terrible with names. I used to be really good at them.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM johannakurz <johannakurz@t-online.de> wrote:
For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
I always had bad memory with names...but througout my life...so had my father...believe that it is genetic.

Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@collector.org>
Datum: 26.10.21 18:44 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188). As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss. Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted. I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease. Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age. Bones become less dense. Muscle mass diminishes. Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating. Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries. Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility. Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision. Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss. The abilities to taste and smell diminishes. Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled. Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations. Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages. Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc. This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health. Interestingly they do not. The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus. These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus. What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other. That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa. IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion. She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry. My question is: Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?






Jeffrey Taylor
 

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




johannakurz
 

Yes, indeed, I take beta blockers for my high blood pressure  and I am convinced that they impair my memory. 
Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io" <jatta97@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 20:17 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Becky Lindroos
 

And booze.

Becky

On Oct 26, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@collector.org> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188). As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss. Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted. I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease. Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age. Bones become less dense. Muscle mass diminishes. Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating. Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries. Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility. Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision. Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss. The abilities to taste and smell diminishes. Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled. Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations. Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages. Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc. This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health. Interestingly they do not. The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus. These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus. What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other. That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa. IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion. She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry. My question is: Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Becky Lindroos
 

Oh that’s what my problem is! Oh of course.

My ex was going to be put on beta blockers and complained to the doctor that it might affect his sex life. The doctor slowly turned his head around and said dryly, “So will a stroke.” (I thought that was hilarious - he didn’t - lol.).

Becky

On Oct 26, 2021, at 1:22 PM, johannakurz <johannakurz@t-online.de> wrote:

Yes, indeed, I take beta blockers for my high blood pressure and I am convinced that they impair my memory.
Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io" <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Datum: 26.10.21 20:17 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@collector.org> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188). As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss. Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted. I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease. Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age. Bones become less dense. Muscle mass diminishes. Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating. Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries. Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility. Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision. Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss. The abilities to taste and smell diminishes. Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled. Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations. Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages. Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc. This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health. Interestingly they do not. The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus. These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus. What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other. That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa. IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion. She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry. My question is: Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Jeffrey Taylor
 

If I understand correctly that is a side effect some people experience with most, generic, blood pressure medications.  There may be some new ones, of course far more expensive, that had less of this effect.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 02:23:46 PM EDT, johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:


Yes, indeed, I take beta blockers for my high blood pressure  and I am convinced that they impair my memory. 
Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io" <jatta97@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 20:17 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Carol Mannchen
 

Since I have heart failure, I am on several heart medications, including a beta blocker.  So, I guess that explains why I can no longer memorize.  I try to be thankful for being able to remember what I can remember and do what I still can do.  Some are more impaired than I am, some less.  I have outlived my mother by 14 years, have to remember that.  I can still get enjoyment from reading and travel, even while forgetting a lot.

Carol Mannchen

Hermitage, TN
oldlawmom@...
615-310-4504




On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 1:29 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:
And booze.

Becky

> On Oct 26, 2021, at 1:17 PM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss. 
>
> On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:
>
>
> Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.
>
> There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.
>
> Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.
>
> Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!
>
> As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?
>
>
>
>







Merilee Olson
 

I was on a tiny dose of beta blockers fora short while and they made my pulse go up to 130!

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:34 AM Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If I understand correctly that is a side effect some people experience with most, generic, blood pressure medications.  There may be some new ones, of course far more expensive, that had less of this effect.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 02:23:46 PM EDT, johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:


Yes, indeed, I take beta blockers for my high blood pressure  and I am convinced that they impair my memory. 
Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io" <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Datum: 26.10.21 20:17 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




David Markham
 

This forgetting of the names of things and people is known as "nominal aphasia". I colleague told me this and I have never forgotten it. 😊

David Markham

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 1:49 PM Merilee Olson <merilee.olson@...> wrote:
I’ve gotten terrible with names.  I used to be really good at them.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:
For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
I always had bad memory with names...but througout my life...so had my father...believe that it is genetic.

Johanna 



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 18:44 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




David Markham
 

Hi Herb and others;

Very good articulation of the changes in physical functioning of the body as it ages. 

We usually attribute cognitive functioning and other sensory processing to the brain, but this does not seem to be entirely accurate. Once we recognize this fact then it raises the interesting question of what is what we call "the mind" and "consciousness" which seems to be beyond what we usually consider physicality and enters into the realm of the supernatural and spiritual.

Is there conscious awareness after death? I tend to believe there may be but it has nothing to do with our individual egos. We become one with the all. The drops of the ocean rejoin the ocean.

At this time of year, fall in Western New York, I saw a sign which said "Fall is proof that change is beautiful."

Can I get the church to say "Amen!"

David Markham
IMG_20211004_103828548.jpg


On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 12:44 PM Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:
Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




34butternut@gmail.com
 

I have read about a third of Forgetting and my verdict is still out on the book.

In response to your question.  I memorized 7 poems:  
Song (When I am Dead, My Dearest) - Christina Rossetti
Hope - Emily Dickinson
The Uses of Sorrow - Mary Oliver
The end of Amanda Gorman’s Inaugural poem
This is Just to Say - William Carlos Williams
The Road Not Taken - Robert Frost
Thanks, Robert Frost - David Ray

The first one was the hardest.  Memorization is a skill that gets better when you practice.  Interestingly, the first two, which it felt like I worked hardest to remember, are the ones that seem to have the most staying power.  If I don’t review them each of them every few weeks, though, I start to lose the ease of remembering.  I also cheated a bit with interspersing short poems, i.e. the Oliver and Williams ones with longer ones.  The Gorman poem, of which I memorized the last 4 stanzas, was a delight in alliteration and repetition. 

I still miss my 40 year old brain, which was pretty amazing, but I felt like my efforts improved my brain functioning.  I’m a big believer is use it or lose it both physically and mentally.  I ran a half-marathon last month and beat my time from one I did four years ago.  Notwithstanding that, I agree that aging means systems degrade, whether it is thinning skin, loss of hearing, etc.

Lots of life stuff, good and bad, intervened in my life and pulled me off the path of one for each month of the year.  Now that you’ve called me on it, I think I’ll get back to it.

Carol


On Oct 26, 2021, at 12:44 PM, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Jeanne
 

Some of these have their plus sides! Less elastic ligaments are my greatest blessing since I've always had hyperflexible joints which can create many problems. With the help of a few (4 to be precise) very simple exercises 3x/week with light weights which took me decades of searching and innumerable sessions with PTs to locate, I finally have stable strong shoulders. I thought they were my strength back in the day as a competitive swimmer (butterfly of course! so easy a stroke for the hyperflexible!), but that was oh so wrong. I also add a couple with heavier weights for the triceps out of vanity, but that doesn't significantly help the shoulder gird!e lol. Oh and I also go to Osteostrong once a week for the shoulders (upper body) but I do the other three machines (lower body, spine and core) plus balance on the vibrator plate to to help ensure I don't develop osteopenia. I'm the only one there without osteopenia/osteoporosis, but believe me, those with those diagnoses make absolutely incredible gains too. (Totally unsolicited, unpaid endorsement lol!!!) I was a little skeptical when I first went, but my results and those of others have me convinced. Yes,  maintaining muscle mass is harder, but it's still fun and not a chore for me. I do have genetically good musculature and have always worked to build and kep it.

Hair thinning is another blessing for me (although it can stop right where it is now, thank you!). Yes, I have the male pattern baldness gene. My hair is fine but very wavy and was *extremely* thick which made it very hard to manage all my life. Changes in humidity led it to expand outward but somehow not upward😐 and the frizz ....'nuff said. My only happy hair moments were in the afro years_ and I guess in toddlerhood when my Mom with poke straight hair gloried in my thick waves and ringlets. I would always dread getting my hair brushed because it tangled and hurt..."Cut it off!" I pleaded to no avail.) Now I can actually wash and dry my hair in a normal amount of time, and brush it like a normal person. I wish I had gorgeous silver hair, but was an ash blonde(light in summer, dark in winter) all my life and so it's greige not silver. The upside is I've looked best in the same colors all my life. No big changes (boring?).

Eyesight is still good, although along with most blue eyed people, I have cataracts that will eventually have to come out. I was slightly near sighted most of my adult life, and now with presbyopia I'm slightly far sighted. While it's nice to drive without glasses, I preferred the former which enabled me to read tiny print without glasses. No more.

Hearing is an interesting sense for me. There is a strong history of hearing loss on my paternal side,yet I've always had what I considered strong hearing, but sort of hyperacusis...annoyingly strong at times. I could never listen to music or books via earphones because it just hurt, no matter how low I put the volume. I've always worn earplugs (a bit loose) at concerts to enjoy them. I definitely need them at night for sound sleep. I often hear little weird sounds in the electrical system of the house/appliances/car which my husband used to poo-poo until he realized they always presaged some problem early on. Every building I enter has its own unique sound signature to my ears which I usually turn into a little tune. I can virtually always hear my heart beating, although thankfully it's not arrhythmic or rapid except when it should be. I hope my hearing dims a bit tbh! Some people develop hyperacusis with/before sudden hearing loss, but apparently that's not me since I've always had it.

Virtually ever person on both sides of my family dies of some form of cardiovascular disease....some early, many quite or very advanced in age. As the person tasked to do genealogical research in my generation, I've seen more death certs with a variety of CV causes than even I suspected. Because I became aware of this around age 18, I've always worked with lifestyle choices to mitigate whatever genetic factors I had (more knowable now of course). I've managed to avoid all prescription drugs (lipid factors (except lipo(a) which is genetic only) lkrelatively easy for me to control: blood pressure is more work). I'm not averse to prescription meds if at some point my doctors think it best, but so far, so good.

Other genetic "problems" (at least in this day and age; they were once advantageous) are double copies of every obesity gene known to mankind and a single copy of the Alzheimer's gene (ApoE4). Diet, exercise and stress management are key here imo. This was always stressed by my parents. ("Some people can eat whatever they want, we can't" my mom would always say.) Their wise words and good examples kept us in healthy bodies. Thankfully no blood relative has to my knowledge ever suffered from Alzheimer's although there were several centenarians and many who lived into late 80s and 90s. My sister has the single gene as well and is doing very well mentally at age 92+. She's not nearly as active as she was, but she does live independently with her (also aged) Golden Retriever, a rescue from PR. She always asserts she DOES NOT want to live to 100!!!Even 95 is pushing it in her opinion. She's had a DNR+ in her medical records since age 90, although she has rescinded it 2 or 3 times for procedures she thought beneficial. Tough! Tougher than me! Ironically her husband ,who had no genetic risk or family history,  was totally impaired by Alzheimer's, though he died of Covid at 95. One never knows!  She does have early heart failure, but doesn't want to see a cardiologist or treat it, and I can't really fault her for that.

Wrinkles don't bother me one bit, although I didn't really have any until my 70s. They're well deserved since I spent every summer in the sun with no sunscreen, and I somehow never developed any real skincare or makeup routine. I just look weird in makeup to my eyes, especially lipstick. I don't like the "smokers' lines" above my lip but I like how I got them...whistling! My Dad was forever singing and whistling and he taught me how to do so at a young age. We loved to whistle in harmony! I never thought it was a "boy" thing until I was about 12 or so. I was in the hardware store whistling away, and some older man came up to me and said my parents would not like their lovely daughter whistling. It was unladylike. Huh? Once he left I started whistling again. So now I have lines not from pursing my lips around a cigarette, but from whistling happy tunes! FWIW, my sister cannot whistle lol!!! Maybe a childhood during the Depression? Nah, she said Dad whistled all the time then. In any event, I now try to hum more because there are studies attesting to its health benefits...

Oh almost forgot! Memory. Yes, not what it used to be, but fine for now. At least in my estimation😅 Forget any bad times but remember their lessons is my motto!



On October 26, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




johannakurz
 

That is very unusual because it causes the opposite...mine is down to 50 and that is the cause of my tiredness.. In your case I think you got atrial fibrillation...and with this the pulse goes up. For me there is no blood pressure medication without side effects. I tried them all. At the end my doctor said that I am the problem and that I am mentally unstable...it cannot be the medication...lol....

Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Merilee Olson <merilee.olson@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 21:47 (GMT+01:00)
An: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

I was on a tiny dose of beta blockers fora short while and they made my pulse go up to 130!

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:34 AM Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If I understand correctly that is a side effect some people experience with most, generic, blood pressure medications.  There may be some new ones, of course far more expensive, that had less of this effect.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 02:23:46 PM EDT, johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:


Yes, indeed, I take beta blockers for my high blood pressure  and I am convinced that they impair my memory. 
Johanna



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io" <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Datum: 26.10.21 20:17 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

We should also be aware that a side effect of some drugs is memory loss.  

On Tuesday, October 26, 2021, 12:44:04 PM EDT, Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...> wrote:


Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




johannakurz
 

And I probably will, forget it:)



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: David Markham <davidgmarkham@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 22:00 (GMT+01:00)
An: All nonfiction <AllNonfiction@groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

This forgetting of the names of things and people is known as "nominal aphasia". I colleague told me this and I have never forgotten it. 😊

David Markham

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 1:49 PM Merilee Olson <merilee.olson@...> wrote:
I’ve gotten terrible with names.  I used to be really good at them.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM johannakurz <johannakurz@...> wrote:
For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
I always had bad memory with names...but througout my life...so had my father...believe that it is genetic.

Johanna 



Von meinem/meiner Galaxy gesendet


-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Herbert Lewis <herbertlewis@...>
Datum: 26.10.21 18:44 (GMT+01:00)
Betreff: [AllNonfiction] Forgetting - Senility

Small writes "'senility' being a medical term meaning 'later life,' somewhat arbitrarily defined as beginning in our mid-sixties." (p. 188).  As Dave posted there are a wide range of diseases which correlate with old age and memory loss.  Particularly noteworthy is Alzheimer's disease which is a pathological condition that destroys hippocampus neurons which impacts the abilities first to form new memories, second to eventually access all memories, and finally to destroy enough brain cells to kill the afflicted.  I have often read and/or heard that Alzheimer's disease is likely universal, so prevalent that should people not die of something else first eventually everyone would die of this disease.  Small claims this is not true.

There are a number of physical attributes which deteriorate with age.  Bones become less dense.  Muscle mass diminishes.  Vertebrae changes cause the head to tip forward which constricts the throat more easily resulting in choking while eating.  Joint cartridge thins promoting injuries.  Ligaments become less elastic causing loss of flexibility.  Deterioration of eye lenses impact vision.  Ear presbycusis causes hearing loss.  The abilities to taste and smell diminishes.  Skin becomes thinner, less elastic, drier, and finely wrinkled.  Nerves conduct signals more slowly and repair themselves incompletely causing decreased sensation and strength.

Brains are not immune to these non-pathological deteriorations.  Neuron loss decreases sensitivity to chemical substances transmitting messages.  Blood flow to the brain decreases partially contributing to loss of mental functions such as vocabulary, the ability to learn new material, ability to recall words and names, etc.  This non-pathological condition, typically known as "senile dementia," is, like Alzheimer's disease, a progressive cognitive demise afflicting older people.

Small describes the use of Functional MRI to scan the hippocampus of many patients to ascertain whether Alzheimer's disease and normal aging have the same impact on hippocampus health.  Interestingly they do not.  The area of the hippocampus affected by Alzheimer's disease is the Entorhinal Cortex, that affected by normal aging is the Dentate Gyrus.  These are two distinct areas located at opposite ends of the hippocampus.  What I found absolutely amazing is that being afflicted with one of these maladies apparently protects against experiencing the other.  That is, the fMRI scans indicated that hippocampi with Alzheimer's disease show no sign of deterioration from cognitive aging and vice versa.  IMO that's astounding!

As an aside, if Carol C. reads this I'd be interested in her opinion.  She posted that she set a challenge for herself to memorize poetry.  My question is:  Is it more difficult now to memorize than it used to be?




Herbert Lewis
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 10:22 AM, johannakurz wrote:
For me it is more difficult to memorize poetry now...or learning new vocabularies in foreign languages...it was easy when I was young.
Johanna, quickly remembering is only one criterium of memory.  IMO it's not even the most important aspect.  Much more important is reliability.

In Chapter six ("Humble Minds") Small describes the distinction between what used to be known as "flashbulb memories" and those, in contrast, which might be called "considered memories."  The former are termed "implicit" and latter "explicit."  It used to be thought that the former occurred without hippocampus access to memory.  fMRI analyses has shown that's false, the hippocampus is involved in both cases.  The distinction is based on whether the analytic functions in the pre-frontal cortex consider the memory or simply access, and accept, it.

One symptom often attributed to memory loss is the inability to remember as fast as one once might have.  That might be due to failure to access flashbulb memories.  Instead it takes longer to remember (if at all) because the analytic part of the mind has to access explicit memories in order to consider them.  That consideration establishes the accuracy of the memory.  That is, instead of implicitly accepting the memory one explicitly examines its likely truth.

In the conclusion of the chapter Small relates a debate whether or not this process is most characterized by "doubt" or "humility."  That is, the author considers what might be the motivation for rejection of implicit memories in favor of explicit ones to be an acknowledgment that the memories might be false.  He and Kahneman thought the attitude assumed towards the proposition (i.e., doubt) to most significant while the patient whose questions initiated the topic (i.e., Dr. X) thought the personal attitude toward memory reliability (i.e., humility) was most significant.

I accept both doubt about an individual memory and humility about memory in general as significant.  But IMO more significant to the topic of the overall reliability of memories is the latter.


Herbert Lewis
 

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 01:35 PM, David Markham wrote:
We usually attribute cognitive functioning and other sensory processing to the brain, but this does not seem to be entirely accurate. Once we recognize this fact then it raises the interesting question of what is what we call "the mind" and "consciousness" which seems to be beyond what we usually consider physicality and enters into the realm of the supernatural and spiritual.

It is true that some of the functions usually attributable to the brain are sometimes provided elsewhere in the nervous system (e.g., "muscle memory").  That doesn't seem to have anything to do with the possibility that the mind and consciousness might "be beyond what we usually consider physicality" much less potentially support the possible involvement of "the realm of the supernatural and spiritual."  After all, the nervous system is just as much a part of "physicality" as is the brain.

Consciousness is a function of the mind.  Just as life emerged from a configuration of non-living molecules to form single cell entities such as berterium and archaean, then Eukaryotic choanoflagellate, and finally choanoflagellate colonies and those in turn caused multi-cell animals with nervous systems such as jellyfish, flatworms, and amphioxi to emerge so did those cause animals with phenomenal consciousness such as salamanders, squids, and crabs to emerge.  In humans, this latter consciousness was much expanded to the sort found in human minds.

Emergence occurs in complex systems in which new properties emerge through the aggregate functions of the parts of the system.  These processes are hierarchical in that they provide reciprocal connections between levels where each higher level gives the system novel emergent properties that are based on both that level's unique features as well as its interactions with the pre-existing lower levels on which it is built.  The higher and lower levels interact reciprocally entailing circular causality.  Each of the end phenomena at the higher level may emerge through multiple, alternative routes.

Of interest in this discussion is the emergence of the human mind from the body's nervous system (typically focused on the brain).  Without the operation of the brain there can be no mind.  If there is no mind there can be no consciousness (again, the latter is a function of the former ).  If the body is dead then that person's mind is inert biological matter serving as little more than food for the micro-organisms previously hosted by the living body.  Like the rest of the body's soft tissue it will soon rot and then disappear.

The current understanding of the mind emerging from the brain precludes any rational explanation of consciousness persisting after death.  That doesn't mean that people can and do have faith in post-death continuation of consciousness (i.e., "spirit" or "soul").  However, without any possibility of rational support for this position, the latter is reduced to be nothing more than a matter of faith and thus becomes an inappropriate topic for discussion (i.e., acceptance is a matter of faith and not rationality).