State killing of black people as a means of subjugation and social control.


David Markham
 


image.png


Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.


Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020

  • White: 1,076 (42.15%)

  • African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)

  • Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)

  • Asian: 47 (1.84%)

  • Native American: 24 (0.94%)

  • Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]

Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).

Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.

This from the AP Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”

  1. To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?

  2. Do these criminal justice practices  attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?

  3. Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”


Becky Lindroos
 

This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control.
Capital punishment has become one way of racial control but … um… I believe it was meant to try to control the number of murders. LOL!

There are lots of other ways to keep Blacks down. Low education levels, low pay, landlord neglect.

• To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
Zero. It could provide evidence for white wickedness.The proponents of critical race theory seem to focus on the evils of white people and that's what many of the parents of white children object to.

• Do these criminal justice practices attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
Yup - but juries determine the sentencing in death penalty cases. Is trying to get the death rate by gun violence down a form of "social control?”

• Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”
Yup - sometimes it might even be called genocidal impulses on the part of whites.

(Words matter.)

Becky


Jeffrey Taylor
 

All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.  

I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.

In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.  

1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty.  So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor.  If it is not sought, it is not available.

2.  It requires a unanimous verdict.  If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.

3.  Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles.  This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate.  So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.  

My  conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.  

Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.




On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@...> wrote:



image.png


Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.


Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020

  • White: 1,076 (42.15%)

  • African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)

  • Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)

  • Asian: 47 (1.84%)

  • Native American: 24 (0.94%)

  • Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]

Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).

Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.

This from the AP Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”

  1. To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?

  2. Do these criminal justice practices  attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?

  3. Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”


Becky Lindroos
 

I’ve been thinking about this since I read Jeffrey’s post. I sent my response but there’s a lot more to it. And it gets pretty intriguing.

First I investigated what’s happening in North Dakota, but I kind of knew there was no such thing as capital punishment in ND now:

"Capital punishment was abolished in the U.S. state of North Dakota in 1973.[1] Historically, a total of eight people have been executed in North Dakota, including one execution prior to North Dakota attaining statehood.”

New York is pretty similar.

Here’s a good map:
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state


So I looked at California where the system has been broken for awhile and on hold as a result. But it's not ended. The problems have been legal issues regarding the method used plus not being able to find a medical practitioner to do the deed - and the judges all overturn each other and the Supremes walk out of court when they lose - lol! There was a Federal ban on executions before Newsom took office and he proclaimed his own moratorium and when that’s over (like he leaves office) the Federal ban will be back in place,.

That leaves a messy situation with 703 inmates waiting to die - one way or the other - on death row. Their number is slowly decreasing because the number of people being sentenced to death has decreased - juries just don’t like to do it these days.

Instead of dying by gas or lethal injection they die of suicide or. Covid or old age while they wait. They’re condemned to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Death Row demographics in California;
"As of June 2021 Black people constitute a plurality of inmates sentenced to death, with 35.85% of inmates sentenced to death being Black. The second largest group of people sentenced to death are white (32.01%), while Mexicans/Latinx are the third largest group of people sentenced to death (18.78%).[60]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California#cite_ref-6

Trying to keep to the question about race and capital punishment I checked on that overall and it’s very interesting.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/demographics

Becky

On Jul 23, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.

I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.

In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.

1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty. So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor. If it is not sought, it is not available.

2. It requires a unanimous verdict. If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.

3. Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles. This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate. So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.

My conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.

Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.

Capital punishment in Georgia (U.S. state) - Wikipedia



On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:



<image.png>

Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.

Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020
• White: 1,076 (42.15%)
• African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)
• Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)
• Asian: 47 (1.84%)
• Native American: 24 (0.94%)
• Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]
Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).
Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.
This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
• To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
• Do these criminal justice practices attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
• Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”


<image.png>


David Markham
 

Hi Becky:

Thank you for your post. 

There are plenty of technicalities and details about capital punishment policies in the various states. From a higher perspective I find it interesting that the US is the only G7 country that still uses the death penalty. This practice undermines the erroneous belief in American exceptionalism and may indicate the opposite that capital punishment is a sign of a cultrually immature country. 

What Americans allow their governments to do in their name is a cause for concern of those who care about the spiritual health of their state and federal governments.

The question being considered is why the U.S. uses capital punishment? What is the function it serves for society that makes it still politically popular?

This question is even more important when there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.

David, don't kill em, Markham


On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 10:30 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about this since I read Jeffrey’s post.  I sent my response but there’s a lot more to it. And it gets pretty intriguing.

First I investigated what’s happening in North Dakota, but I kind of knew there was no such thing as capital punishment in ND now:

"Capital punishment was abolished in the U.S. state of North Dakota in 1973.[1] Historically, a total of eight people have been executed in North Dakota, including one execution prior to North Dakota attaining statehood.”

New York is pretty similar.

Here’s a good map:
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state


So I looked at California where the system has been broken for awhile and on hold as a result. But it's not ended. The problems have been legal issues regarding the method used plus not being able to find a medical practitioner to do the deed - and the judges all overturn each other and the Supremes walk out of court when they lose - lol!  There was a Federal ban on executions before Newsom took office and he proclaimed his own moratorium and when that’s over (like he leaves office) the Federal ban will be back in place,.

That leaves a messy situation with 703 inmates waiting to die - one way or the other - on death row.  Their number is slowly decreasing because the number of people being sentenced to death has decreased - juries just don’t like to do it these days.

Instead of dying by gas or lethal injection they die of suicide or. Covid or old age while they wait. They’re condemned to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Death Row demographics in California;
"As of June 2021 Black people constitute a plurality of inmates sentenced to death, with 35.85% of inmates sentenced to death being Black. The second largest group of people sentenced to death are white (32.01%), while Mexicans/Latinx are the third largest group of people sentenced to death (18.78%).[60]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California#cite_ref-6

Trying to keep to the question about race and capital punishment I checked on that overall and it’s very interesting.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/demographics

Becky


> On Jul 23, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.
>
> I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.
>
> In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.
>
> 1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty.  So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor.  If it is not sought, it is not available.
>
> 2.  It requires a unanimous verdict.  If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.
>
> 3.  Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles.  This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate.  So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.
>
> My  conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.
>
> Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.
>
> Capital punishment in Georgia (U.S. state) - Wikipedia
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> <image.png>
>
> Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.
>
> Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
> Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020
>       • White: 1,076 (42.15%)
>       • African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)
>       • Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)
>       • Asian: 47 (1.84%)
>       • Native American: 24 (0.94%)
>       • Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]
> Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).
> Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.
> This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
>       • To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
>       • Do these criminal justice practices  attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
>       • Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”
>
>
> <image.png>







Becky Lindroos
 

On Jul 24, 2021, at 10:59 AM, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:

This practice undermines the erroneous belief in American exceptionalism and may indicate the opposite that capital punishment is a sign of a cultrually immature country.
YES! I tend to believe in exceptionalism but only that the USA has a seriously different history and culture and yes, we may be far more immature than other countries which have experienced loss of wars and territory etc. and survived - or not. We are different from the other countries in the Western Hemisphere in that we started out with a Magna Carta rather than Spanish dictators - and we’re different from other colonies and mandates etc of the British Empire in that we actually broke from their now Commonwealth by declaring war, winning it, and establishing that.

The US has never had a dictator or lost a war on our own soil (the South did though). And we lost in Vietnam. There have been a lot of growing pains from both.

We jumped into making use of all the natural resources with no restraints and taking capitalism to its natural limits in the name of freedom including accepting and giving rights to all skin tones, religions, ethnicities, etc. Yes, we certainly labor under the load of exceptionalism and many of us are trying to be something no one, no country, has been before. And we’ve made mistakes along the way - some bad ones, and we keep trying because in large part we have been successful.

We’re different - and I think immature is a good way of saying it. There was some commentator who, just the other day, said that the US is finally coming out of its adolescence. "America is going through Puberty - Matthew McConaughey on 4th of July"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP8LC-G0ZKU

Too many of us want to "take names and kick ass,” "shoot first and ask questions later." We think that sounds tough. We’re going to get our own asses kicked that way. That’s what happens to bullies.

Becky



Hi Becky:

Thank you for your post.

There are plenty of technicalities and details about capital punishment policies in the various states. From a higher perspective I find it interesting that the US is the only G7 country that still uses the death penalty. This practice undermines the erroneous belief in American exceptionalism and may indicate the opposite that capital punishment is a sign of a cultrually immature country.

What Americans allow their governments to do in their name is a cause for concern of those who care about the spiritual health of their state and federal governments.

The question being considered is why the U.S. uses capital punishment? What is the function it serves for society that makes it still politically popular?

This question is even more important when there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.

David, don't kill em, Markham


On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 10:30 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about this since I read Jeffrey’s post. I sent my response but there’s a lot more to it. And it gets pretty intriguing.

First I investigated what’s happening in North Dakota, but I kind of knew there was no such thing as capital punishment in ND now:

"Capital punishment was abolished in the U.S. state of North Dakota in 1973.[1] Historically, a total of eight people have been executed in North Dakota, including one execution prior to North Dakota attaining statehood.”

New York is pretty similar.

Here’s a good map:
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state


So I looked at California where the system has been broken for awhile and on hold as a result. But it's not ended. The problems have been legal issues regarding the method used plus not being able to find a medical practitioner to do the deed - and the judges all overturn each other and the Supremes walk out of court when they lose - lol! There was a Federal ban on executions before Newsom took office and he proclaimed his own moratorium and when that’s over (like he leaves office) the Federal ban will be back in place,.

That leaves a messy situation with 703 inmates waiting to die - one way or the other - on death row. Their number is slowly decreasing because the number of people being sentenced to death has decreased - juries just don’t like to do it these days.

Instead of dying by gas or lethal injection they die of suicide or. Covid or old age while they wait. They’re condemned to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Death Row demographics in California;
"As of June 2021 Black people constitute a plurality of inmates sentenced to death, with 35.85% of inmates sentenced to death being Black. The second largest group of people sentenced to death are white (32.01%), while Mexicans/Latinx are the third largest group of people sentenced to death (18.78%).[60]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California#cite_ref-6

Trying to keep to the question about race and capital punishment I checked on that overall and it’s very interesting.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/demographics

Becky


On Jul 23, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.

I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.

In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.

1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty. So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor. If it is not sought, it is not available.

2. It requires a unanimous verdict. If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.

3. Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles. This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate. So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.

My conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.

Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.

Capital punishment in Georgia (U.S. state) - Wikipedia



On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:



<image.png>

Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.

Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020
• White: 1,076 (42.15%)
• African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)
• Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)
• Asian: 47 (1.84%)
• Native American: 24 (0.94%)
• Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]
Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).
Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.
This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
• To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
• Do these criminal justice practices attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
• Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”


<image.png>






Becky Lindroos
 

On Jul 24, 2021, at 10:59 AM, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:


“… there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.”
That wasn’t true a few years ago when I looked into it. The results of the studies I looked at showed the results were too mixed to draw conclusions because nothing really changed whether there was a moratorium on capital punishment or not. (Fwiw, Charles Manson did NOT get the death penalty because his deeds were done during this time.)

But Texas for instance, had high rates of homicide before, during, and after the Supreme Court put what was essentially a moratorium on capital punishment between 1972 and 1976. Texas numbers just kept going up and up and up.
https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

North Dakota’s murder rate continued to go up and down - marginally. The state never reinstated the death penalty. We have one of the lowest murder rates anyway - so do Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, and Wyoming. They’re all under 1 murder per 100,000 people. Of those, only Wyoming still uses the death penalty (currently).

California’s murder rate just kept climbing before, during and after the moratorium.

States with very low rates of homicide stayed low when the death penalty was removed and stayed low when it was re-instated. Those states with high rates stayed high.

New York’s rate has gone down appreciably since the early 1990s. They haven’t had the death penalty since 2007.

Georgia’s rate went down a bit while the moratorium was on and has generally continued to decrease since that time.

I think if you’ve got a generally non-murderous state it will continue to be that.

I’ve heard similar things about gun control laws. Just because Japan has very stiff gun control laws and very low rate of murders by gun, doesn’t mean that Texas would have the same result - I think they’d just go ahead and get them illegally because they honestly believe they need them for self-protection and honor (that’s a bit deal in many areas).

If Japan abandoned gun control laws they’d probably still be peaceful in their own country - for awhile anyway - a couple decades. But they were wicked bad in WWII.

Becky




Hi Becky:

Thank you for your post.

There are plenty of technicalities and details about capital punishment policies in the various states. From a higher perspective I find it interesting that the US is the only G7 country that still uses the death penalty. This practice undermines the erroneous belief in American exceptionalism and may indicate the opposite that capital punishment is a sign of a cultrually immature country.

What Americans allow their governments to do in their name is a cause for concern of those who care about the spiritual health of their state and federal governments.

The question being considered is why the U.S. uses capital punishment? What is the function it serves for society that makes it still politically popular?

This question is even more important when there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.

David, don't kill em, Markham


On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 10:30 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I’ve been thinking about this since I read Jeffrey’s post. I sent my response but there’s a lot more to it. And it gets pretty intriguing.

First I investigated what’s happening in North Dakota, but I kind of knew there was no such thing as capital punishment in ND now:

"Capital punishment was abolished in the U.S. state of North Dakota in 1973.[1] Historically, a total of eight people have been executed in North Dakota, including one execution prior to North Dakota attaining statehood.”

New York is pretty similar.

Here’s a good map:
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state


So I looked at California where the system has been broken for awhile and on hold as a result. But it's not ended. The problems have been legal issues regarding the method used plus not being able to find a medical practitioner to do the deed - and the judges all overturn each other and the Supremes walk out of court when they lose - lol! There was a Federal ban on executions before Newsom took office and he proclaimed his own moratorium and when that’s over (like he leaves office) the Federal ban will be back in place,.

That leaves a messy situation with 703 inmates waiting to die - one way or the other - on death row. Their number is slowly decreasing because the number of people being sentenced to death has decreased - juries just don’t like to do it these days.

Instead of dying by gas or lethal injection they die of suicide or. Covid or old age while they wait. They’re condemned to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Death Row demographics in California;
"As of June 2021 Black people constitute a plurality of inmates sentenced to death, with 35.85% of inmates sentenced to death being Black. The second largest group of people sentenced to death are white (32.01%), while Mexicans/Latinx are the third largest group of people sentenced to death (18.78%).[60]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California#cite_ref-6

Trying to keep to the question about race and capital punishment I checked on that overall and it’s very interesting.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/demographics

Becky


On Jul 23, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.

I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.

In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.

1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty. So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor. If it is not sought, it is not available.

2. It requires a unanimous verdict. If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.

3. Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles. This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate. So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.

My conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.

Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.

Capital punishment in Georgia (U.S. state) - Wikipedia



On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:



<image.png>

Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.

Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020
• White: 1,076 (42.15%)
• African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)
• Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)
• Asian: 47 (1.84%)
• Native American: 24 (0.94%)
• Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]
Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).
Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.
This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
• To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
• Do these criminal justice practices attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
• Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”


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David Markham
 

Hi Becky:

Another excellent post being very thoughtful based on perception of data.

I had a thought the other day which I want to articulate further that the possession of guns is related to the fear level in a population. Those that are highly fearful will have more guns as a means of managing that fear while populations with lower levels of fear will have fewer guns. 

My thought is that guns are an anti anxiety medication. A nation, a community, a person is self medicating with guns and like any medication it can become addictive. 

As a nation we certainly are the highest addicted to guns. Whether guns reduce anxiety or increase it is the paradoxical observation, but the idea that guns work to lower communal and individual anxiety and fear is dysfunctional for many reasons.

The same dynamic could be observed about the use of capital punishment. Capital punishment is a practice intended to reduce the level of fear in a society. It not only doesn't work, it makes that level of fear worse instead of better. Giving the state the sanction to kill makes killing more prevalent in that particular state/society. It seems contradictory to think that killing would teach people not to kill. Killing is sold as a solution to the problem of killing. This is an example of magical thinking at a lower level of consciousness.

A similar example is teaching children not to hit by spanking them. There is plenty of evidence now that spanking doesn't work but rather produces children who are more likely to be physically violent.

Moving from reactive practices to more thoughtful practices to improve society's dysfunction takes mature leadership which at times seems in short supply and unlikely to be elected in a democracy by voters who are not at a higher level of social maturity themselves.

However, there are a few members of society who do function and think at higher levels of maturity, and they do have influence. Increasingly, states are giving up the death penalty with Virginia being the last one most recently which is the first Southern state to do so.

There is hope for a better tomorrow. Keep the faith!

David, don't kill em, Markham


On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 3:36 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:
On Jul 24, 2021, at 10:59 AM, David Markham <davidgmarkham@...> wrote:


> “… there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.”

That wasn’t true a few years ago when I looked into it.  The results of the studies I looked at showed the results were too mixed to draw conclusions because nothing really changed whether there was a moratorium on capital punishment or not.  (Fwiw, Charles Manson did NOT get the death penalty because his deeds were done during this time.)

But Texas for instance, had high rates of homicide before, during, and after the Supreme Court put what was essentially a moratorium on capital punishment between 1972 and 1976.  Texas numbers just kept going up and up and up.
https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

North Dakota’s murder rate continued to go up and down - marginally.  The state never reinstated the death penalty.  We have one of the lowest murder rates anyway - so do Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, and Wyoming.  They’re all under 1 murder per 100,000 people.  Of those, only Wyoming still uses the death penalty (currently).

California’s murder rate just kept climbing before, during and after the moratorium.

States with very low rates of homicide stayed low when the death penalty was removed and stayed low when it was re-instated.  Those states with high rates stayed high.

New York’s rate has gone down appreciably since the early 1990s. They haven’t had the death penalty since 2007.

Georgia’s rate went down a bit while the moratorium was on and has generally continued to decrease since that time.

I think if you’ve got a generally non-murderous state it will continue to be that.

 I’ve heard similar things about gun control laws.   Just because Japan has very stiff gun control laws and very low rate of murders by gun, doesn’t mean that Texas would have the same result - I think they’d just go ahead and get them illegally because they honestly believe they need them for self-protection and honor (that’s a bit deal in many areas).

 If Japan abandoned gun control laws they’d probably still be peaceful in their own country - for awhile anyway - a couple decades.  But they were wicked bad in WWII.

Becky



>
> Hi Becky:
>
> Thank you for your post.
>
> There are plenty of technicalities and details about capital punishment policies in the various states. From a higher perspective I find it interesting that the US is the only G7 country that still uses the death penalty. This practice undermines the erroneous belief in American exceptionalism and may indicate the opposite that capital punishment is a sign of a cultrually immature country.
>
> What Americans allow their governments to do in their name is a cause for concern of those who care about the spiritual health of their state and federal governments.
>
> The question being considered is why the U.S. uses capital punishment? What is the function it serves for society that makes it still politically popular?
>
> This question is even more important when there is clear research that shows that capital punishment does not act as deterrent and it fact the opposite phenomenon appears wherein the rates of homicides are higher in states that still use the death penalty.
>
> David, don't kill em, Markham
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 10:30 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:
> I’ve been thinking about this since I read Jeffrey’s post.  I sent my response but there’s a lot more to it. And it gets pretty intriguing.
>
> First I investigated what’s happening in North Dakota, but I kind of knew there was no such thing as capital punishment in ND now:
>
> "Capital punishment was abolished in the U.S. state of North Dakota in 1973.[1] Historically, a total of eight people have been executed in North Dakota, including one execution prior to North Dakota attaining statehood.”
>
> New York is pretty similar.
>
> Here’s a good map:
> https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-and-federal-info/state-by-state
>
>
> So I looked at California where the system has been broken for awhile and on hold as a result. But it's not ended. The problems have been legal issues regarding the method used plus not being able to find a medical practitioner to do the deed - and the judges all overturn each other and the Supremes walk out of court when they lose - lol!  There was a Federal ban on executions before Newsom took office and he proclaimed his own moratorium and when that’s over (like he leaves office) the Federal ban will be back in place,.
>
> That leaves a messy situation with 703 inmates waiting to die - one way or the other - on death row.  Their number is slowly decreasing because the number of people being sentenced to death has decreased - juries just don’t like to do it these days.
>
> Instead of dying by gas or lethal injection they die of suicide or. Covid or old age while they wait. They’re condemned to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
>
> Death Row demographics in California;
> "As of June 2021 Black people constitute a plurality of inmates sentenced to death, with 35.85% of inmates sentenced to death being Black. The second largest group of people sentenced to death are white (32.01%), while Mexicans/Latinx are the third largest group of people sentenced to death (18.78%).[60]”
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_California#cite_ref-6
>
> Trying to keep to the question about race and capital punishment I checked on that overall and it’s very interesting.
> https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-row/overview/demographics
>
> Becky
>
>
> > On Jul 23, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
> >
> > All very good questions and the statistics seem to point to a very unsocial answer.
> >
> > I am not a lawyer but I would point toward society rather than the legal system since here the legal system directly represents social values.
> >
> > In Georgia the death penalty is determined in a penalty phase after conviction.
> >
> > 1. Prosecution has to specifically choose to request the penalty.  So the first person to look at in the Prosecutor.  If it is not sought, it is not available.
> >
> > 2.  It requires a unanimous verdict.  If one juror holds out the charge is converted to life in prison. So the second set of people to look to is the jury.
> >
> > 3.  Clemency my be granted by the Board of Pardon and Paroles.  This is a five person Board appointed by the Governor and approved by the state Senate.  So the finger now include the Gov., the Board and the Senate.
> >
> > My  conclusion is that is the statistics support a claim of racism and they do, then the conclusion is that the citizenry of the state support racism.
> >
> > Without getting into a major research project this looks like as good a summary as any.
> >
> > Capital punishment in Georgia (U.S. state) - Wikipedia
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:01:05 AM EDT, David Markham <davidgmarkham@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > <image.png>
> >
> > Capital punishment became the new means of enforcing racial control. Between 1901 and 1964, Georgia hanged and electrocuted 609 people. Eighty-two percent of those executed were Black men, even though Georgia was majority white.
> >
> > Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 90). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
> > Ethnicity of defendants on death row as of October 1, 2020
> >       • White: 1,076 (42.15%)
> >       • African-American: 1,062 (41.60%)
> >       • Hispanic: 343 (13.44%)
> >       • Asian: 47 (1.84%)
> >       • Native American: 24 (0.94%)
> >       • Unknown: 1 (0.04%)[1]
> > Comparatively, the U.S. population is 61% non-Hispanic white, 18.1% Hispanic or Latino, 13.4% African-American, 5.8% Asian, 1.3% Native American, and 2.7% mixed (per U.S. Census Bureau 2018).
> > Black people are way over represented on death row in the United States and are far more often executed especially in states like Texas and Florida and other Southern States.
> > This from the AP “Since the death penalty resumed in 1977, 295 Black defendants were executed for killing a white victim, but only 21 white defendants were executed for the killing of a Black victim even though Black people are disproportionately the victims of crime.”
> >       • To what extent do you think these facts provide evidence for white supremacy?
> >       • Do these criminal justice practices  attempt to intimidate and subjugate blacks as a means of social control?
> >       • Is state sponsored capital punishment a sanitized version of lynching used to intimidate blacks and “keep them in their place.”
> >
> >
> > <image.png>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>