Despair or hope?


Becky Lindroos
 

LOL!

Ya - I think the hard core Trumpies and anti-vaxxers can get sick and die. I’d hate to take their rights and freedoms. Best wishes to them - (I’ll bet I’m not the only one who thinks this.)

Becky

On Jul 20, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

So if we cannot influence evolution and if Covid is reducing Thuglicans in high percentages of the population due to their Leader opposing inoculation, then it appears he may have done a really great service to mankind. He truly is making America great again.

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021, 11:59:59 AM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


Good point, Jim. We’ve evolved to this point for reasons - usually for better survival I think probably. I don’t know if we could remove things we’ve been evolved to do. We didn’t evolve ourselves - we didn’t choose. (Lol)

We as a species might be able to choose to evolve spiritually (as David suggested) if we as a species focused on it. But the cooperation would have to be there already or the conspiracy-minded folks would get really upset.

Does free will increase if we choose hard things and do them - or are we born with a certain amount? Do we pass a spiritual attribute on to our children through the genes? I personally think yes to all those. But as long as the capitalist impulse is around I think it would get warped and/or be usurped.

Becky



On Jul 20, 2021, at 10:25 AM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think some people are capable of being much better than the average, but I'm not sure the average will ever be uplifted to those better states. We shouldn't stop trying to evolve society but I don't have much hope. As a species, we're just not cooperative enough. Most people can cooperate if it's in their self-interest, but few people can cooperate selflessly.

Jim






Jeffrey Taylor
 

So if we cannot influence evolution and if Covid is reducing Thuglicans in high percentages of the population due to their Leader opposing inoculation, then it appears he may have done a really great service to mankind.  He truly is making America great again.  

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021, 11:59:59 AM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:


Good point,  Jim.  We’ve evolved to this point for reasons - usually for better survival I think probably.  I don’t know if we could remove things we’ve been evolved to do.  We didn’t evolve ourselves - we didn’t choose. (Lol) 

We as a species might be able to choose to evolve spiritually (as David suggested) if we as a species focused on it. But the cooperation would have to be there already or the conspiracy-minded folks would get really upset.

Does free will increase if we choose hard things and do them - or are we born with a certain amount? Do we pass a spiritual attribute on to our children through the genes?  I personally think yes to all those.  But as long as the capitalist impulse is around I think it would get warped and/or be usurped.

Becky



> On Jul 20, 2021, at 10:25 AM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
>
> I think some people are capable of being much better than the average, but I'm not sure the average will ever be uplifted to those better states. We shouldn't stop trying to evolve society but I don't have much hope. As a species, we're just not cooperative enough. Most people can cooperate if it's in their self-interest, but few people can cooperate selflessly.
>
> Jim
>







Becky Lindroos
 

Good point, Jim. We’ve evolved to this point for reasons - usually for better survival I think probably. I don’t know if we could remove things we’ve been evolved to do. We didn’t evolve ourselves - we didn’t choose. (Lol)

We as a species might be able to choose to evolve spiritually (as David suggested) if we as a species focused on it. But the cooperation would have to be there already or the conspiracy-minded folks would get really upset.

Does free will increase if we choose hard things and do them - or are we born with a certain amount? Do we pass a spiritual attribute on to our children through the genes? I personally think yes to all those. But as long as the capitalist impulse is around I think it would get warped and/or be usurped.

Becky

On Jul 20, 2021, at 10:25 AM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think some people are capable of being much better than the average, but I'm not sure the average will ever be uplifted to those better states. We shouldn't stop trying to evolve society but I don't have much hope. As a species, we're just not cooperative enough. Most people can cooperate if it's in their self-interest, but few people can cooperate selflessly.

Jim


Jim Harris
 

I think some people are capable of being much better than the average, but I'm not sure the average will ever be uplifted to those better states. We shouldn't stop trying to evolve society but I don't have much hope. As a species, we're just not cooperative enough. Most people can cooperate if it's in their self-interest, but few people can cooperate selflessly.

Jim


Becky Lindroos
 

Absolutely humans (and the universe) are evolving but I can’t go as far as to say “higher” anything. There are always costs. It’ll be more appropriate for this world in terms of multi-faceted survival though (hopefully).

One thing - we can’t play director of the great evolution show. We’ve already got problems as a species and we really do NOT need to bring them into a brave new world (as it very slowly arrives). But if we’re directing the show ourselves by tinkering with the human programs we surely will be. It’s like a psychotherapist doing therapy on his 15-year old daughter - he’s got his designs and she’s got hers.

We have to let go of the big results. (Work your own program - for itself -for your own sanity.)

Our old plans for our future (which we’re living today) didn’t work out so well, at least not in California where the perfect *natural* environment of the Natives is trashed. In California there were virtually no (zero) Native Wars because there was plenty of food and natural resources to more than meet everyone’s needs. (See what gold did?) Today I am so glad I left although a part of me is still there - (I lived there for 50+ years.)

On Jul 19, 2021, at 8:08 AM, David Markham <davidgmarkham@gmail.com> wrote:

As mob violence became more widespread and effective in enforcing racial subjugation, lynchings became more public and more macabre. Huge crowds would gather for the planned events. Hanging proved too quick and efficient a means of death. Instead, lynch mobs turned to genital mutilation, dismemberment, and burning, like something from the medieval era. Crowds would clamor to take souvenirs of the hanging tree, rope, and even the fingers and skins of the victims. I remember the first time I saw postcards depicting a lynching. A young white boy smiled at the feet of a hanging victim. Lynchings became violent public spectacles that united the white community while ensuring the subservience of African Americans.23

Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 84). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

I have seen the postcards and pictures of the lynchings too. The visceral reaction I experienced was the same when I’ve seen pictures of the Nazi concentration camps. It has led me to despair in wondering “What kind of a species of animal are we that we can do this to one another?”

I do not have an answer but I do know that we are capable of becoming better than this. What will it take to push the evolutionary project forward to develop healthier functioning human beings? Will it take better politics, better religion, better economic systems, better social systems, more spirituality, all of these things?

It seems to me using Ken Wilber’s AQAL model that it takes primarily growth in the interior realms of spirituality and culture. As advances are made in the interior quadrants, we will find the development of different kinds of social institutions and even a rewiring of the human neurology. One thing for sure, there is no quick fix, no silver bullet, no magic key.

Each one of us must take responsibility for our own interior spiritual development and join with others with similar goals to create our preferred society and world.

• What do you do in this regard?
• What kind of spiritual practices do you engage in?
• What kind of fellowship and emotional support systems have you created that facilitate and nurture positive evolutionary movement?
• To whom do you look for spiritual leadership and inspiration?


<image.png>

David Markham



David Markham
 

As mob violence became more widespread and effective in enforcing racial subjugation, lynchings became more public and more macabre. Huge crowds would gather for the planned events. Hanging proved too quick and efficient a means of death. Instead, lynch mobs turned to genital mutilation, dismemberment, and burning, like something from the medieval era. Crowds would clamor to take souvenirs of the hanging tree, rope, and even the fingers and skins of the victims. I remember the first time I saw postcards depicting a lynching. A young white boy smiled at the feet of a hanging victim. Lynchings became violent public spectacles that united the white community while ensuring the subservience of African Americans.23


Seidule, Ty. Robert E. Lee and Me (p. 84). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 


I have seen the postcards and pictures of the lynchings too. The visceral reaction I experienced was the same when I’ve seen pictures of the Nazi concentration camps. It has led me to despair in wondering “What kind of a species of animal are we that we can do this to one another?”


I do not have an answer but I do know that we are capable of becoming better than this. What will it take to push the evolutionary project forward to develop healthier functioning human beings? Will it take better politics, better religion, better economic systems, better social systems, more spirituality, all of these things?


It seems to me using Ken Wilber’s AQAL model that it takes primarily growth in the interior realms of spirituality and culture. As advances are made in the interior quadrants, we will find the development of different kinds of social institutions and even a rewiring of the human neurology. One thing for sure, there is no quick fix, no silver bullet, no magic key.


Each one of us must take responsibility for our own interior spiritual development and join with others with similar goals to create our preferred society and world.


  1. What do you do in this regard?
  2. What kind of spiritual practices do you engage in?
  3. What kind of fellowship and emotional support systems have you created that facilitate and nurture positive evolutionary movement?
  4. To whom do you look for spiritual leadership and inspiration?


image.png


David Markham