REL - Q1


Becky Lindroos
 

Because of my strong feelings about my own heritage I can understand the loyalty many Southerners have for the Confederates, many of whom may have been relatives and ancestors. And then you grow up hearing about their bravery and honor and ultimate loss I suppose you go into denial about what else went on or the down side of it all.

And in school I only had Civil war stuff taught in US history. Minnesota and World history didn’t include much about the Civil War. More important was the massacre/slaughter of several dozen Natives in Mankato in 1862.

"Thirty-eight Dakota men hanged from a Mankato gallows in December 1862. Their deaths scarred generations of native people and cemented Minnesota as home to the largest mass execution in U.S. history.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_War_of_1862

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 3:27 PM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I grew up on Long Island, MY. We moved south when my father bought a Motel on Rt. 17 in Virginia. Just behind the property was undeveloped land that still contained vestiges of trenches hastily dug by the Army of Northern Virginia during the early days of the Peninsula Campaign. At least that was what we kids thought.

During our first visit to the area we went to Jamestown Island. The visitor center had bathrooms and fountains (on federal property jointly owned with a privately owned VA preservation society) all labeled white and black. I was walking towards the bathrooms and saw the signs and stopped cold. At that moment a park ranger came along and put his arm around my shoulder and said as I remember, "You don't want to go in there." I was young enough to still respond to authority so I did as told, much to my later regret. This was circa 1962 when I was 11. But this little event was my benign image of government and segregation but told me all I needed to know before I even learned about lynch law and KKK's.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 10:03:48 AM EDT, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:


I did not nominate the book, but when I read the reviews of the nominated book I knew I wanted to read Robert E. Lee and Me. It is the perfect book for the moment. I think it illuminates the backlash on critical race theory. Republicans are trying to preserve the history written by the Lost Cause movement, which was developed over the last century. Critical race theory will erase all of it, and I'm for that.

I was born in Ohio, and lived in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but spent most of my life in the south. As kids, we'd play civil war and I was always a Yankee because I was born in Ohio. I've always identified with the North regarding the civil war. Unlike Ty Seidale, even though I lived in the south, I never admired the Confederacy or the Old South. I grew up mainly in Miami, which isn't very Southern. However, I've lived in Memphis since 1971, so I'm used to knowing people Seidale describes.


Jeffrey Taylor
 

I grew up on Long Island, MY.  We moved south when my father bought a Motel on Rt. 17 in Virginia.  Just behind the property was undeveloped land that still contained vestiges of trenches hastily dug by the Army of Northern Virginia during the early days of the Peninsula Campaign.  At least that was what we kids thought.  

During our first visit to the area we went to Jamestown Island.  The visitor center had bathrooms and fountains (on federal property jointly owned with a privately owned VA preservation society) all labeled white and black.  I was walking towards the bathrooms and saw the signs and stopped cold.  At that moment a park ranger came along and put his arm around my shoulder and said as I remember, "You don't want to go in there."  I was young enough to still respond to authority so I did as told, much to my later regret.  This was circa 1962 when I was 11.  But this little event was my benign image of government and segregation but told me all I needed to know before I even learned about lynch law and KKK's.  

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 10:03:48 AM EDT, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:


I did not nominate the book, but when I read the reviews of the nominated book I knew I wanted to read Robert E. Lee and Me. It is the perfect book for the moment. I think it illuminates the backlash on critical race theory. Republicans are trying to preserve the history written by the Lost Cause movement, which was developed over the last century. Critical race theory will erase all of it, and I'm for that.

I was born in Ohio, and lived in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but spent most of my life in the south. As kids, we'd play civil war and I was always a Yankee because I was born in Ohio. I've always identified with the North regarding the civil war. Unlike Ty Seidale, even though I lived in the south, I never admired the Confederacy or the Old South. I grew up mainly in Miami, which isn't very Southern. However, I've lived in Memphis since 1971, so I'm used to knowing people Seidale describes. 


Jenny Berman Ross
 

I did not nominate the book or vote for it. I picked it up at the public library a couple of months ago and read it.  My mother was from Texas and three of her grandparents were Southern.  I have accumulated a lot of genealogical information and inherited information about the Civil War experiences of some ancestors.  Nathan Bedford Forrest is a distant cousin and my mother thought highly enough of Robert E. Lee to give my brother the middle name "Lee" in what also may have been a nod to the many variations of Robert as a name for men and women in her father's family. The first members of my mother's family to arrive in the United States settled on a 100 acre plantation near Jamestown in the early 1630s. My ancestors pretty consistently moved south and west and married outside of their family circle. A few fought for independence in the Revolutionary War, some fought against the British in the War of 1812, and many fought for the South in the Civil War.  By the 1850s, most of my direct ancestors did not own large plots of land or slaves. They were teachers, haberdashers, or bankers who were still willing to take up arms against their country to defend the right of their friends and relatives to own slaves.

I am not Southern - I grew up in diverse communities in Arizona and have lived around the country in Texas, Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and Illinois. I picked up Robert E. Lee and Me to see if the author's exploration of his own background and beliefs would give me insight into my mother's thinking. She not only embraced the lost cause myths about Robert E. Lee but also embraced stories about her ancestor's Scotch-Irish origins, which were also myths. I found the book very interesting and sent a note to the author after I finished it - telling him that I found echoes of my own family and some of the stories they told in his story. 

I think this book, like Mitch Landrieu's speech about removing the confederate monuments in New Orleans (https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/full-speech-mitch-landrieu-addresses-removal-of-confederate-statues/2017/05/31/cbc3b3a2-4618-11e7-8de1-cec59a9bf4b1_video.html) are important because they show how White Americans need to examine not just our history but our responses to it and how those myths make others feel. It is interesting to me that I continue to encounter people at genealogy conferences who are very invested in these myths - despite the fact that they do not have southern ancestor or roots in the south.  A man who has given presentations in Illinois about his perceived need for the Confederate monuments that were erected in the early 20th century comes to mind - he is not southern and does not have southern ancestors but is very invested in maintaining monuments to White supremacy.

Jenny


Jim Harris
 

I did not nominate the book, but when I read the reviews of the nominated book I knew I wanted to read Robert E. Lee and Me. It is the perfect book for the moment. I think it illuminates the backlash on critical race theory. Republicans are trying to preserve the history written by the Lost Cause movement, which was developed over the last century. Critical race theory will erase all of it, and I'm for that.

I was born in Ohio, and lived in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, but spent most of my life in the south. As kids, we'd play civil war and I was always a Yankee because I was born in Ohio. I've always identified with the North regarding the civil war. Unlike Ty Seidale, even though I lived in the south, I never admired the Confederacy or the Old South. I grew up mainly in Miami, which isn't very Southern. However, I've lived in Memphis since 1971, so I'm used to knowing people Seidale describes. 


Sandie Kirkland
 

I grew up and still live in the South so Robert E. Lee was taught as an honorable man in a lost cause. The emphasis on the Civil War was that the South was fighting more for state's rights and that slavery was just another factor not the main reason. This material would probably be sensitive for me. I'm not reading it due to several pressing reading commitments already made but will follow the discussion with interest.

Sandie

-----Original Message-----
From: AllNonfiction@groups.io <AllNonfiction@groups.io> On Behalf Of Becky Lindroos
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 8:27 AM
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Subject: [AllNonfiction] REL - Q1

1. If you nominated or voted for this book, what were your reasons? So far as you’ve got, does it live up to your expectations? Why or why not?

This book deals with the myth of Robert E. Lee and the myth of the South, the Lost Cause. What’s your background in that - most of us went to school in the US, but your understanding might be different if you were raised and educated in South Carolina than if you were in New Hampshire for all that. And experience with the issues outside the US might be completely different. How was it for you? Is this sensitive material for you? (I think maybe it is to a certain extent for at least most of us.)

Becky


Becky Lindroos
 

No, I didn’t nominate it because I’d never heard of it or the author, but I did vote for it.

My background is solid Yankee - Minnesota for most of my early school and California for high school stuff and later although the region I where lived in California was “of” the South (complicated history). Still, after I read Gone With the Wind I was drawn to that idea of the myth and the Lost Cause. There’s something so beautiful and romantic about it.

In school we were told that many slaves preferred slavery because of the security and they loved their masters. We were told slaves weren’t mistreated that badly because you wouldn’t do that to a valuable piece of equipment. (I didn’t hear anything about sex on the plantation until after high school.) We learned the terms carpet baggers and scalawags but later found out those were the terms the Southerners gave to the Northerners who went down south to help.

We also learned that the North pretty much demolished the South economically and the loss was felt well into the 1960s. We learned that the North treated the South much, much worse than we treated any other defeated enemy. This was in the days when we were still giving a lot of money to Europe and Japan for economic recovery from WWII so by comparison I don’t know.

I learned later that the authors of much of the text book material used by all the states was written by Southerners who studied at Columbia. I learned that the US bent over backwards to accept the South and its ways in order to make nice again - to rejoin. The North used the idea of States Rights to just overlook the Jim Crow laws of the South (even when compared to South Africa’s apartheid).

For a long time the Civil War was my least favorite part of US history, but I knew the war was about slavery. I questioned that in my early college days but later I was convinced again.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

1. If you nominated or voted for this book, what were your reasons? So far as you’ve got, does it live up to your expectations? Why or why not?

This book deals with the myth of Robert E. Lee and the myth of the South, the Lost Cause. What’s your background in that - most of us went to school in the US, but your understanding might be different if you were raised and educated in South Carolina than if you were in New Hampshire for all that. And experience with the issues outside the US might be completely different. How was it for you? Is this sensitive material for you? (I think maybe it is to a certain extent for at least most of us.)

Becky







Becky Lindroos
 

1. If you nominated or voted for this book, what were your reasons? So far as you’ve got, does it live up to your expectations? Why or why not?

This book deals with the myth of Robert E. Lee and the myth of the South, the Lost Cause. What’s your background in that - most of us went to school in the US, but your understanding might be different if you were raised and educated in South Carolina than if you were in New Hampshire for all that. And experience with the issues outside the US might be completely different. How was it for you? Is this sensitive material for you? (I think maybe it is to a certain extent for at least most of us.)

Becky