Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open


Becky Lindroos
 

Hi folks,

Today we begin our discussion of "Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning” by Ty Seidule (2021). I hope you’ve all had time to get it and maybe start it if not finished it.

As usual, there are rarely spoilers in non-fiction, so post as you will. If you are sensitive about spoilers you might consider finishing the book prior to reading the messages. I'll be posting optional questions every other day or so for about 15 days. If you have a question or any kind of point you'd like to make about the book feel free to post any time.

From Macmillan: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266
In a forceful but humane narrative, former soldier and head of the West Point history department Ty Seidule's Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the myths and lies of the Confederate legacy—and explores why some of this country’s oldest wounds have never healed.

Ty Seidule grew up revering Robert E. Lee. From his southern childhood to his service in the U.S. Army, every part of his life reinforced the Lost Cause myth: that Lee was the greatest man who ever lived, and that the Confederates were underdogs who lost the Civil War with honor. Now, as a retired brigadier general and Professor Emeritus of History at West Point, his view has radically changed. From a soldier, a scholar, and a southerner, Ty Seidule believes that American history demands a reckoning.

In a unique blend of history and reflection, Seidule deconstructs the truth about the Confederacy—that its undisputed primary goal was the subjugation and enslavement of Black Americans—and directly challenges the idea of honoring those who labored to preserve that system and committed treason in their failed attempt to achieve it. Through the arc of Seidule’s own life, as well as the culture that formed him, he seeks a path to understanding why the facts of the Civil War have remained buried beneath layers of myth and even outright lies—and how they embody a cultural gulf that separates millions of Americans to this day.

Part history lecture, part meditation on the Civil War and its fallout, and part memoir, Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the deeply-held legends and myths of the Confederacy—and provides a surprising interpretation of essential truths that our country still has a difficult time articulating and accepting.

*****
Becky


Jim Harris
 

I'm already about halfway through listening to REL & ME.


Jeffrey Taylor
 

I nominated the book after seeing the discussion between Seidule and David Petraeus on C-Span.  That sold me on the work.  It adds significant perspective to all the discussions regarding naming changes and monument removals that are currently prominent in the South today.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 07:46:11 AM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:


Hi folks,

Today we begin our discussion of "Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning” by Ty Seidule (2021).  I hope you’ve all had time to get it and maybe start it if not finished it.

As usual, there are rarely spoilers in non-fiction, so post as you will. If you are sensitive about spoilers you might consider finishing the book prior to reading the messages.  I'll be posting optional questions every other day or so for about 15 days. If you have a question or any kind of point you'd like to make about the book feel free to post any time.

In a forceful but humane narrative, former soldier and head of the West Point history department Ty Seidule's Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the myths and lies of the Confederate legacy—and explores why some of this country’s oldest wounds have never healed.

Ty Seidule grew up revering Robert E. Lee. From his southern childhood to his service in the U.S. Army, every part of his life reinforced the Lost Cause myth: that Lee was the greatest man who ever lived, and that the Confederates were underdogs who lost the Civil War with honor. Now, as a retired brigadier general and Professor Emeritus of History at West Point, his view has radically changed. From a soldier, a scholar, and a southerner, Ty Seidule believes that American history demands a reckoning.

In a unique blend of history and reflection, Seidule deconstructs the truth about the Confederacy—that its undisputed primary goal was the subjugation and enslavement of Black Americans—and directly challenges the idea of honoring those who labored to preserve that system and committed treason in their failed attempt to achieve it. Through the arc of Seidule’s own life, as well as the culture that formed him, he seeks a path to understanding why the facts of the Civil War have remained buried beneath layers of myth and even outright lies—and how they embody a cultural gulf that separates millions of Americans to this day.

Part history lecture, part meditation on the Civil War and its fallout, and part memoir, Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the deeply-held legends and myths of the Confederacy—and provides a surprising interpretation of essential truths that our country still has a difficult time articulating and accepting.

*****
Becky





Becky Lindroos
 

It really does add so much to that discussion - it adds the history! Thank you for nominating it.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 2:57 PM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I nominated the book after seeing the discussion between Seidule and David Petraeus on C-Span. That sold me on the work. It adds significant perspective to all the discussions regarding naming changes and monument removals that are currently prominent in the South today.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 07:46:11 AM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


Hi folks,

Today we begin our discussion of "Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning” by Ty Seidule (2021). I hope you’ve all had time to get it and maybe start it if not finished it.

As usual, there are rarely spoilers in non-fiction, so post as you will. If you are sensitive about spoilers you might consider finishing the book prior to reading the messages. I'll be posting optional questions every other day or so for about 15 days. If you have a question or any kind of point you'd like to make about the book feel free to post any time.

From Macmillan: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250239266
In a forceful but humane narrative, former soldier and head of the West Point history department Ty Seidule's Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the myths and lies of the Confederate legacy—and explores why some of this country’s oldest wounds have never healed.

Ty Seidule grew up revering Robert E. Lee. From his southern childhood to his service in the U.S. Army, every part of his life reinforced the Lost Cause myth: that Lee was the greatest man who ever lived, and that the Confederates were underdogs who lost the Civil War with honor. Now, as a retired brigadier general and Professor Emeritus of History at West Point, his view has radically changed. From a soldier, a scholar, and a southerner, Ty Seidule believes that American history demands a reckoning.

In a unique blend of history and reflection, Seidule deconstructs the truth about the Confederacy—that its undisputed primary goal was the subjugation and enslavement of Black Americans—and directly challenges the idea of honoring those who labored to preserve that system and committed treason in their failed attempt to achieve it. Through the arc of Seidule’s own life, as well as the culture that formed him, he seeks a path to understanding why the facts of the Civil War have remained buried beneath layers of myth and even outright lies—and how they embody a cultural gulf that separates millions of Americans to this day.

Part history lecture, part meditation on the Civil War and its fallout, and part memoir, Robert E. Lee and Me challenges the deeply-held legends and myths of the Confederacy—and provides a surprising interpretation of essential truths that our country still has a difficult time articulating and accepting.

*****
Becky





Jim Harris
 

I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.

Jim


Becky Lindroos
 

Oh - it’s perfect.

And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too. That book by Isabel Wilkerson.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.

Jim


Michele
 

Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....

Michele


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

Oh - it’s perfect.

And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too.  That book by Isabel Wilkerson.

Becky

> On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
>
> I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.
>
> Jim
>







Becky Lindroos
 

It’s excellent, Michele. I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....

Michele


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

Oh - it’s perfect.

And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too. That book by Isabel Wilkerson.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.

Jim






Michele
 

Thanks Bek! Dangit! Now I'm gonna have to buy it, I think!


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

It’s excellent, Michele.  I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

> On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....
>
> Michele
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
> To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
> Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open
>
> Oh - it’s perfect.
>
> And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too.  That book by Isabel Wilkerson.
>
> Becky
>
> > On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Jeffrey Taylor
 

This is where things get messy.  The ranking officer corps may be of one mind but the rank and file of the military may not achieve consensus.  Your reference to "points of view" must be applied within the military also.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:26:43 PM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:


It’s excellent, Michele.  I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

> On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....
>
> Michele
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
> To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
> Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open
>
> Oh - it’s perfect.
>
> And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too.  That book by Isabel Wilkerson.
>
> Becky
>
> > On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Michele
 

I had a friend who was in the Navy. Commissioned officer. We've lost touch.  He was very clear that he believed his duty was to believe and support the views of the president et al., because he represented his country and thus had no right to have a personal point of view.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97@...>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io <AllNonfiction@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 9:53 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

This is where things get messy.  The ranking officer corps may be of one mind but the rank and file of the military may not achieve consensus.  Your reference to "points of view" must be applied within the military also.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:26:43 PM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:


It’s excellent, Michele.  I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

> On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....
>
> Michele
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
> To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
> Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open
>
> Oh - it’s perfect.
>
> And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too.  That book by Isabel Wilkerson.
>
> Becky
>
> > On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
> >
> > I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Becky Lindroos
 

That’s totally true! Not everyone agrees with Milley and Seidule gets death threats.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 11:53 PM, Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

This is where things get messy. The ranking officer corps may be of one mind but the rank and file of the military may not achieve consensus. Your reference to "points of view" must be applied within the military also.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:26:43 PM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


It’s excellent, Michele. I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....

Michele


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

Oh - it’s perfect.

And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too. That book by Isabel Wilkerson.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.

Jim











Becky Lindroos
 

That must have been quite a change for him when Biden replaced Trump - heh. Thinking about the military that way it might be really hard for me to enlist.

Becky

On Jul 2, 2021, at 12:14 AM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I had a friend who was in the Navy. Commissioned officer. We've lost touch. He was very clear that he believed his duty was to believe and support the views of the president et al., because he represented his country and thus had no right to have a personal point of view.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io <AllNonfiction@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 9:53 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

This is where things get messy. The ranking officer corps may be of one mind but the rank and file of the military may not achieve consensus. Your reference to "points of view" must be applied within the military also.

On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:26:43 PM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


It’s excellent, Michele. I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....

Michele


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@sbcglobal.net>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

Oh - it’s perfect.

And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too. That book by Isabel Wilkerson.

Becky

On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@outlook.com> wrote:

I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.

Jim











Michele
 

Ha1 Yeah, he's pretty conservative in general--I think adjusting to Obama as his boss was a real adjustment LOL


-----Original Message-----
From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jul 2, 2021 2:13 am
Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open

That must have been quite a change for him when Biden replaced Trump - heh. Thinking about the military that way it might be really hard for me to enlist. 

Becky

> On Jul 2, 2021, at 12:14 AM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I had a friend who was in the Navy. Commissioned officer. We've lost touch.  He was very clear that he believed his duty was to believe and support the views of the president et al., because he represented his country and thus had no right to have a personal point of view.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Taylor via groups.io <jatta97=yahoo.com@groups.io>
> To: AllNonfiction@groups.io <AllNonfiction@groups.io>
> Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 9:53 pm
> Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open
>
> This is where things get messy.  The ranking officer corps may be of one mind but the rank and file of the military may not achieve consensus.  Your reference to "points of view" must be applied within the military also.
>
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 11:26:43 PM EDT, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...> wrote:
>
>
> It’s excellent, Michele.  I’d read about the race issue from various points of view but never from within the military or with the military perspective on it’s own history.
>
> Becky
>
> > On Jul 1, 2021, at 7:34 PM, Michele via groups.io <missshellbelle=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting conversation, guys! I didn't buy the book, but now I'm rethinking that....
> >
> > Michele
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Becky Lindroos <bekah0176@...>
> > To: AllNonfiction@groups.io
> > Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 5:20 pm
> > Subject: Re: [AllNonfiction] Robert E. Lee and Me by Ty Seidule - open
> >
> > Oh - it’s perfect.
> >
> > And I’ve been thinking more about Caste, too.  That book by Isabel Wilkerson.
> >
> > Becky
> >
> > > On Jul 1, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Jim Harris <jameswallaceharris@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think the book also fits in with the teaching of critical race theory, or more precisely, helps explain why conservatives are doing everything they can to stop CRT.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







Jim Harris
 

The audio version is on Scribd - in case you're a subscriber.