Date   

Re: Paragua Aeopostale

Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
 

Instead of dude.... should say doubt!!!

--- In aerophilately@..., "Carlos Gustavo" <carloscotlier@...> wrote:

Hi David!
The story starts again!
I found at the auction web page:
http://www.airmails.co.uk
A cover from Paraguay to England dated on 29 February 1929.
The cover with no dude has gone by Air from Asuncion to London because it has a British arrival postmark on 11 March 29 at 10 AM.
Here it is the auctioneer advertisement:

Lot 640 Paraguay to England Description: First acceptance of mail for England, Asuncion to London, bs 11/3, for carriage on the inaugural Compagnie Aeroposta Argentina Asuncion-Toulouse service, registered (label) cover franked $14.70 ($2.50 postage, $2.00 regn, $10.20 airmail), violet "Via Aerea" cachet, flown on the new CGA overseas service from Paraguay to Argentina then "accelerated" by the "plane-ship-plane route via the South Atlantic, arriving in Toulouse on 9th March. Scarce item in fine condition.

Then………… we must admit that there are covers since Paraguay to Europe on 1929!
Legal or illegal transportation of mail by Aeropostale is not now the case.
Fair play! I must admit the jury was right.
As I wrote at the beginning of my note:

About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an
expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).

We say in Spanish "Shoemaker to your shoes".
I will keep researching about Argentine Air Mail 1924-1945.!!
Maybe you are interested in buying this cover for your collection if so good luck at the auction.(ends on September 12th)
Kind regards from Argentina.
Carlos Cotlier.





--- In aerophilately@..., "Ken" <kaerophil@> wrote:

Dear Carlos,

I found my copy of "Historia Postal Del Correo Aereo Del Paraguay" and would be glad to scan the pages covering the early airmail services. Please advise what year I should go up to, and what is your email address.

Ken Sanford
kaerophil@

--- In aerophilately@..., "Carlos Gustavo" <carloscotlier@> wrote:

Hi David!
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.


--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@> wrote:

Hi all,
We have enough people to get rolling now.
As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.

So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.

 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: "rmattingly3544@" <rmattingly3544@>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction



 
For David Giles
 
Hi David,
 
In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
Perhaps there will be something you can use.
 
Bob Mattingly
rmattingly3544@
----- Original Message -----
From: David Giles
To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction

 
Hello:

My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.

I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 

I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.

My main collecting interests are:

King George
VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
Costa Rica
Netherlands
Indies / Indonesia
United States of America
... and a number of topical
collections.

With rare exception, I collect everything
used.

With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.

I look
forward to learning and contributing to this
group.

Cheers!

David Giles
Ottawa, Canada


Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
Society
Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society


Re: Paragua Aeopostale

Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
 

Hi David!
The story starts again!
I found at the auction web page:
http://www.airmails.co.uk
A cover from Paraguay to England dated on 29 February 1929.
The cover with no dude has gone by Air from Asuncion to London because it has a British arrival postmark on 11 March 29 at 10 AM.
Here it is the auctioneer advertisement:

Lot 640 Paraguay to England Description: First acceptance of mail for England, Asuncion to London, bs 11/3, for carriage on the inaugural Compagnie Aeroposta Argentina Asuncion-Toulouse service, registered (label) cover franked $14.70 ($2.50 postage, $2.00 regn, $10.20 airmail), violet "Via Aerea" cachet, flown on the new CGA overseas service from Paraguay to Argentina then "accelerated" by the "plane-ship-plane route via the South Atlantic, arriving in Toulouse on 9th March. Scarce item in fine condition.

Then………… we must admit that there are covers since Paraguay to Europe on 1929!
Legal or illegal transportation of mail by Aeropostale is not now the case.
Fair play! I must admit the jury was right.
As I wrote at the beginning of my note:

About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an
expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).

We say in Spanish "Shoemaker to your shoes".
I will keep researching about Argentine Air Mail 1924-1945.!!
Maybe you are interested in buying this cover for your collection if so good luck at the auction.(ends on September 12th)
Kind regards from Argentina.
Carlos Cotlier.

--- In aerophilately@..., "Ken" <kaerophil@...> wrote:

Dear Carlos,

I found my copy of "Historia Postal Del Correo Aereo Del Paraguay" and would be glad to scan the pages covering the early airmail services. Please advise what year I should go up to, and what is your email address.

Ken Sanford
kaerophil@...

--- In aerophilately@..., "Carlos Gustavo" <carloscotlier@> wrote:

Hi David!
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.


--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@> wrote:

Hi all,
We have enough people to get rolling now.
As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.

So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.

 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: "rmattingly3544@" <rmattingly3544@>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction



 
For David Giles
 
Hi David,
 
In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
Perhaps there will be something you can use.
 
Bob Mattingly
rmattingly3544@
----- Original Message -----
From: David Giles
To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction

 
Hello:

My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.

I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 

I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.

My main collecting interests are:

King George
VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
Costa Rica
Netherlands
Indies / Indonesia
United States of America
... and a number of topical
collections.

With rare exception, I collect everything
used.

With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.

I look
forward to learning and contributing to this
group.

Cheers!

David Giles
Ottawa, Canada


Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
Society
Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society


Re: Army Emergency Flights in 1934

jim72051
 

I don't have emergency flights but I do stash away on cover examples of just about everything worldwide including US regular use military covers. A quick look in my unorganized boxes resulted in the four airmail examples I just posted in my album.

Jim


Re: Army Emergency Flights in 1934

Ken
 

Dear Lee,
 
I have a couple of Army Emergency crash covers. See my website at: http://www.aerophilately.net/crshlst2.html
 
Regards,
 
Ken Sanford


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <lee.downer204@...> wrote:
 

Hi to everyone.  I'm new to the group and looking forward to participating.  Maybe I can add something as well. 

 

Anyone know dealers who might have Army related covers?   I know Doug Weiss, but that's about it.  THX, Lee



Re: Army Emergency Flights in 1934

Lee Downer
 

I keep a close watch on Ebay, but am trying to find dealers that are too busy to list them.  Lee

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 25, 2013, at 3:40 PM, DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

 

There appear to be three Army Emergency 1934 covers on eBay just now if you have not been looking there.

 
David Crotty


From: "lee.downer204@..." <lee.downer204@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Army Emergency Flights in 1934

 
Hi to everyone.  I'm new to the group and looking forward to participating.  Maybe I can add something as well. 
 
Anyone know dealers who might have Army related covers?   I know Doug Weiss, but that's about it.  THX, Lee



Re: Army Emergency Flights in 1934

GreyOldDave
 

There appear to be three Army Emergency 1934 covers on eBay just now if you have not been looking there.

 
David Crotty


From: "lee.downer204@..."
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 2:38 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Army Emergency Flights in 1934

 
Hi to everyone.  I'm new to the group and looking forward to participating.  Maybe I can add something as well. 
 
Anyone know dealers who might have Army related covers?   I know Doug Weiss, but that's about it.  THX, Lee



Army Emergency Flights in 1934

Lee Downer
 

Hi to everyone.  I'm new to the group and looking forward to participating.  Maybe I can add something as well. 

 

Anyone know dealers who might have Army related covers?   I know Doug Weiss, but that's about it.  THX, Lee


Re: Identificaton or Verification of Flights

Robert Mattingly
 

Hi Jim - From the 1920's on the Brits almost wilfully ignored collectors' desires for backstamps.  Consequently, the absence of backstamps on your covers to London would not affect their authenticity.  My reading of the AAMC suggests none of these esoteric flights were given any advanced publicity and none enjoyed the rigamarole associated with cacheting. As a rule there isn't a lot of interest in the 60's flights so there's good news and bad news. The good news is that even the rare ones will be inexpensive to buy.  The bad news is the reciprocal.
Cheers,
BobM

----- Original Message -----
From: jim72051
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Identificaton or Verification of Flights

 

Here is another identification or more accurately a verification question. According to Vol 4(5th ed.) FAM 18-322f and 323 (NY and Balt to London Jun 1, 1961) MAY have back-stamps for London but mine do not. Also I have a 322 in addition to a 322f and that does not appear in the book (see close-up photo) Because of the "small number" of the covers I suspect my are not valid. What cachet should the have? Does anyone have any experience with these covers? I have posted some photos in my "unidentified covers" folder. You can use the "large" or "original" size options to get a closer look.

Thanks,

Jim


Re: Identificaton or Verification of Flights

GreyOldDave
 

You photos with two and five covers seem to be readable. The one with 12 covers is not.
Now I am not familiar enough with these to answer your questions. If no-one here has a good answer we can ask around.

 
David Crotty


From: jim72051
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 1:16 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Identificaton or Verification of Flights

 
Here is another identification or more accurately a verification question. According to Vol 4(5th ed.) FAM 18-322f and 323 (NY and Balt to London Jun 1, 1961) MAY have back-stamps for London but mine do not. Also I have a 322 in addition to a 322f and that does not appear in the book (see close-up photo) Because of the "small number" of the covers I suspect my are not valid. What cachet should the have? Does anyone have any experience with these covers? I have posted some photos in my "unidentified covers" folder. You can use the "large" or "original" size options to get a closer look.

Thanks,

Jim




Identificaton or Verification of Flights

jim72051
 

Here is another identification or more accurately a verification question. According to Vol 4(5th ed.) FAM 18-322f and 323 (NY and Balt to London Jun 1, 1961) MAY have back-stamps for London but mine do not. Also I have a 322 in addition to a 322f and that does not appear in the book (see close-up photo) Because of the "small number" of the covers I suspect my are not valid. What cachet should the have? Does anyone have any experience with these covers? I have posted some photos in my "unidentified covers" folder. You can use the "large" or "original" size options to get a closer look.

Thanks,

Jim


Re: Identification: Jan 2, 1960 Baltimore, WDC, SFO, Chicago with backstamps

GreyOldDave
 

Jim
Actually you did one of the two things possible. One is to place your photos in an album on the yahoogroup site. The other is to really attach a photo to your message to the group as you would to anyone else. It will be distributed to all members.
Since this group of photos is not very readable perhaps you can upload each photo separately into your album. 

 
David Crotty


From: jim72051 <jamesamackay@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 2:12 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Identification: Jan 2, 1960 Baltimore, WDC, SFO, Chicago with backstamps

 
These covers form a set of 12. Mr. Jackson must have had some flight related intent when requesting these covers. Nothing on or around that date appears in AAMC Ver 5. Does anyone have any idea what his intent was? There are several other similar packets from 1950 on so any suggestions of where to look or how to assign something besides "not listed" in my inventory for all these would be helpful. I'm not sure how to attach an image so I put a photo in a folder called unidentified covers.

Thanks,

Jim




Identification: Jan 2, 1960 Baltimore, WDC, SFO, Chicago with backstamps

jim72051
 

These covers form a set of 12. Mr. Jackson must have had some flight related intent when requesting these covers. Nothing on or around that date appears in AAMC Ver 5. Does anyone have any idea what his intent was? There are several other similar packets from 1950 on so any suggestions of where to look or how to assign something besides "not listed" in my inventory for all these would be helpful. I'm not sure how to attach an image so I put a photo in a folder called unidentified covers.

Thanks,

Jim


Re: AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

Curt Heckert
 

Thanks Ken,
I am very impressed with what I have seen so far in the Sixth Edition and I'll definitely order a copy of the next Volume when it's ready.

Curt

--- In aerophilately@..., Ken Sanford <kaerophil@...> wrote:

Dear Curt,

The American Air Mail Society is working on updating the CAM sections,
which were in the 5th edition of the Catalogue.

Routes 1 to 34 will be in the enext edition, which should be published
later this year.

Regards,

Ken Sanford


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:28 PM, curtcoach <curtheckert@...> wrote:

**


Hi,
I recently ordered and received vols 1-3 of the AAMS Sixth Edition
catalog. They are nicely done and in some cases have a lot more info than
the Fifth edition.

However, I can not find CAM flights listed anywhere. Is there another
volume I should order, or am I just looking in the wrong place.

Thanks,
Curt



Re: AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

Ken
 

Dear Curt,

The American Air Mail Society is working on updating the CAM sections, which were in the 5th edition of the Catalogue.

Routes 1 to 34 will be in the enext edition, which should be published later this year.

Regards,

Ken Sanford


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:28 PM, curtcoach <curtheckert@...> wrote:
 

Hi,
I recently ordered and received vols 1-3 of the AAMS Sixth Edition catalog. They are nicely done and in some cases have a lot more info than the Fifth edition.

However, I can not find CAM flights listed anywhere. Is there another volume I should order, or am I just looking in the wrong place.

Thanks,
Curt



The subject of FFC prices

GreyOldDave
 


Not to belabor the point but philatelic prices follow no formula.
The second point is that I do not usually actually forget something, it just takes time to shuffle through the flotsam and jetsam. The dealer conversation that I overheard I believe was about the new AAMS catalog volume 4. Someone at the AAMS was showing the dealers the prices that are to be found in the new volume. These dealers thought that the prices for many FFC's were much too high compared with what gets sold on the market.
Keep in mind there are some rare ones. Those go for high prices. However, sometimes two guys want a particular item that is not really rare but still kind of hard to find and they may butt heads at an auction.
Hope that helps.
 
David Crotty



Re: First Flight values

GreyOldDave
 

Al,
Most stamp shows are very aware of the mobility needs of some collectors. So try to get to one once is awhile. You might call the show chairman to discuss your needs. Linn's Stamp News has a fairly complete listing of shows and it usually has the contact info for someone working on the show.
However let me suggest that you look at the AAMS auctions. Many of the FFC's can be found there and we tell you on our website what the item went for.
Hope that helps.

 
David Crotty


From: Alden Carter
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] First Flight values

 
Hi David,

That helps immensely.  Unfortunately, Marshfield is a bit off the beaten path, and I'm also crippled, making it very difficult to walk around a stamp show.  But I will try to get to a show and will certainly write to your dealer friends.  Any ideas on my other question?

Thanks,

Al Carter

On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:31 AM, DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

 

Alden,
This is a question best presented to a dealer who handles these items on a day to day basis. Suggest you go to stamp shows in your area and if at all possible go to StampShow in a few weeks. I can recommend at least two dealers and I am sure others can add to the list. These dealers have almost all covers at their tables but you will find others who have at least a box of this. Ask them about this. They all have an opinion, sometimes a really strong one. I have had great conversations with both of these guys and each had provided some great advice.

Douglas Weisz http://www.douglasweisz.com/  Douglas Weisz <dougandmim-facebook@...>;

Rob Haeseler bloodlesscoup@...

I overheard a conversation between two dealers a year or so ago about this very issue. I gathered from this little bit of eavesdropping that there is a lot of disagreement and consternation over this. It seems someone WAS trying to work up a pricing list for airmail material and therein came the controversy. At the moment I don't remember who was supposed to be working on this but I have never seen anything being offered or discussed at AAMS meetings.
Remember too that many of these first flights we loaded down with bags of mail almost to the point where they had trouble getting off the ground. (one of the PAA Pacific surveys out of San Francisco was so loaded he had to fly UNDER the uncompleted Golden Gate bridge.)  All of that got saved so in most cases there is no lack of supply. Its just a matter of trying to find a dealer who has the stuff and you having the time and patience to go through the boxes.
Hope this helps.

 
David Crotty

From: Alden Carter <acarterwriter@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] First Flight values

 
Hi all, 

I guess we've concluded that no one has compiled a comprehensive list of First Flight values since 1990.  Has anyone worked out a formula for doing a rough
approximation of today's values?  E.g. 1_ _% of 1990 value = 2013 value 

I remain confused about how to value  a First Flight cover with a better stamp compared to a cover with an inferior stamp.  Say one cover has a listed value of $5.00 and has a C7 AP5 with a value of $ .35  while an otherwise identical cover has a C10 AP6 with a $2.50 value.  What are the values of the covers?

Thanks much.

Al Carter







Re: First Flight values

acarterwriter
 

Hi David,

That helps immensely.  Unfortunately, Marshfield is a bit off the beaten path, and I'm also crippled, making it very difficult to walk around a stamp show.  But I will try to get to a show and will certainly write to your dealer friends.  Any ideas on my other question?

Thanks,

Al Carter

On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:31 AM, DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

 

Alden,
This is a question best presented to a dealer who handles these items on a day to day basis. Suggest you go to stamp shows in your area and if at all possible go to StampShow in a few weeks. I can recommend at least two dealers and I am sure others can add to the list. These dealers have almost all covers at their tables but you will find others who have at least a box of this. Ask them about this. They all have an opinion, sometimes a really strong one. I have had great conversations with both of these guys and each had provided some great advice.

Douglas Weisz http://www.douglasweisz.com/  Douglas Weisz <dougandmim-facebook@...>;

Rob Haeseler bloodlesscoup@...

I overheard a conversation between two dealers a year or so ago about this very issue. I gathered from this little bit of eavesdropping that there is a lot of disagreement and consternation over this. It seems someone WAS trying to work up a pricing list for airmail material and therein came the controversy. At the moment I don't remember who was supposed to be working on this but I have never seen anything being offered or discussed at AAMS meetings.
Remember too that many of these first flights we loaded down with bags of mail almost to the point where they had trouble getting off the ground. (one of the PAA Pacific surveys out of San Francisco was so loaded he had to fly UNDER the uncompleted Golden Gate bridge.)  All of that got saved so in most cases there is no lack of supply. Its just a matter of trying to find a dealer who has the stuff and you having the time and patience to go through the boxes.
Hope this helps.

 
David Crotty

From: Alden Carter <acarterwriter@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] First Flight values

 
Hi all, 

I guess we've concluded that no one has compiled a comprehensive list of First Flight values since 1990.  Has anyone worked out a formula for doing a rough
approximation of today's values?  E.g. 1_ _% of 1990 value = 2013 value 

I remain confused about how to value  a First Flight cover with a better stamp compared to a cover with an inferior stamp.  Say one cover has a listed value of $5.00 and has a C7 AP5 with a value of $ .35  while an otherwise identical cover has a C10 AP6 with a $2.50 value.  What are the values of the covers?

Thanks much.

Al Carter





Re: AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

Curt Heckert
 

That’s good news, David. Thanks for that info. I won’t be able to be at StampShow, but I’ll certainly order a copy when it’s ready.
 
Thanks,
Curt
 

From: DEC
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] AAMS Sixth Edition catalog
 
 

The CAMs are coming in volume 4 of the 6th edition. I hear it is almost ready to go. Maybe we will get an answer at StampShow in a few weeks.

 
David Crotty

From: curtcoach
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:28 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] AAMS Sixth Edition catalog
 
 
Hi,
I recently ordered and received vols 1-3 of the AAMS Sixth Edition catalog. They are nicely done and in some cases have a lot more info than the Fifth edition.

However, I can not find CAM flights listed anywhere. Is there another volume I should order, or am I just looking in the wrong place.

Thanks,
Curt




Re: AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

GreyOldDave
 

The CAMs are coming in volume 4 of the 6th edition. I hear it is almost ready to go. Maybe we will get an answer at StampShow in a few weeks.

 
David Crotty


From: curtcoach
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:28 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

 
Hi,
I recently ordered and received vols 1-3 of the AAMS Sixth Edition catalog. They are nicely done and in some cases have a lot more info than the Fifth edition.

However, I can not find CAM flights listed anywhere. Is there another volume I should order, or am I just looking in the wrong place.

Thanks,
Curt




AAMS Sixth Edition catalog

Curt Heckert
 

Hi,
I recently ordered and received vols 1-3 of the AAMS Sixth Edition catalog. They are nicely done and in some cases have a lot more info than the Fifth edition.

However, I can not find CAM flights listed anywhere. Is there another volume I should order, or am I just looking in the wrong place.

Thanks,
Curt

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