Date   

Re: First Flight values

GreyOldDave
 

Alden,
This is a question best presented to a dealer who handles these items on a day to day basis. Suggest you go to stamp shows in your area and if at all possible go to StampShow in a few weeks. I can recommend at least two dealers and I am sure others can add to the list. These dealers have almost all covers at their tables but you will find others who have at least a box of this. Ask them about this. They all have an opinion, sometimes a really strong one. I have had great conversations with both of these guys and each had provided some great advice.

Douglas Weisz http://www.douglasweisz.com/  Douglas Weisz ;

Rob Haeseler bloodlesscoup@...

I overheard a conversation between two dealers a year or so ago about this very issue. I gathered from this little bit of eavesdropping that there is a lot of disagreement and consternation over this. It seems someone WAS trying to work up a pricing list for airmail material and therein came the controversy. At the moment I don't remember who was supposed to be working on this but I have never seen anything being offered or discussed at AAMS meetings.
Remember too that many of these first flights we loaded down with bags of mail almost to the point where they had trouble getting off the ground. (one of the PAA Pacific surveys out of San Francisco was so loaded he had to fly UNDER the uncompleted Golden Gate bridge.)  All of that got saved so in most cases there is no lack of supply. Its just a matter of trying to find a dealer who has the stuff and you having the time and patience to go through the boxes.
Hope this helps.

 
David Crotty


From: Alden Carter
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 12:36 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] First Flight values

 
Hi all, 

I guess we've concluded that no one has compiled a comprehensive list of First Flight values since 1990.  Has anyone worked out a formula for doing a rough
approximation of today's values?  E.g. 1_ _% of 1990 value = 2013 value 

I remain confused about how to value  a First Flight cover with a better stamp compared to a cover with an inferior stamp.  Say one cover has a listed value of $5.00 and has a C7 AP5 with a value of $ .35  while an otherwise identical cover has a C10 AP6 with a $2.50 value.  What are the values of the covers?

Thanks much.

Al Carter



First Flight values

acarterwriter
 

Hi all, 

I guess we've concluded that no one has compiled a comprehensive list of First Flight values since 1990.  Has anyone worked out a formula for doing a rough
approximation of today's values?  E.g. 1_ _% of 1990 value = 2013 value 

I remain confused about how to value  a First Flight cover with a better stamp compared to a cover with an inferior stamp.  Say one cover has a listed value of $5.00 and has a C7 AP5 with a value of $ .35  while an otherwise identical cover has a C10 AP6 with a $2.50 value.  What are the values of the covers?

Thanks much.

Al Carter


Re: Paragua Aeopostale

GreyOldDave
 

Dear Carlos and Kent,
I think that the answer was that CGA did not carry Paraguay mail to Europe before the bankruptcy in 1930 or 1931. The readings suggest this did not happen until Air France came in later.

 
David Crotty


From: Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
To: "aerophilately@..."
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Re: Paragua Aeopostale

 
Dear Kent:
Thanks for trying to help with information.
We must remember the question of David Crotty about if there is or anybody knows about air mail covers from Paraguay to Europe in the very early years of the Paraguay air mail postal history.
I do not have the book so it is welcome for me your data.
If you can be so kind enough to send me pages about Paraguayan air mail transportation to Europe (if the book speaks about this or shows any cover from Paraguay to Europe ) during the years 1928- 1929.
 Please write to my and send scans to my e-mails that are:
with copy to:
Kind regards,
Carlos.
 

De: Ken <kaerophil@...>
Para: aerophilately@...
Enviado: sábado, 20 de julio de 2013 14:56
Asunto: [aerophilately] Re: Paragua Aeopostale
 
Dear Carlos,

I found my copy of "Historia Postal Del Correo Aereo Del Paraguay" and would be glad to scan the pages covering the early airmail services. Please advise what year I should go up to, and what is your email address.

Ken Sanford
mailto:kaerophil%40gmail.com

--- In mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com, "Carlos Gustavo" wrote:
>
> Hi David!
> About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
> The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
> Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
> (We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
> 1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
> 2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
> 3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
> 4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
> 5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
> 6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
> 7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
> 8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
> 9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
> 10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
> 11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
> 12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
> Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
> Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
> Carlos Cotlier.
>
> Bibliography.
> (1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
> (2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
> (3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
> (4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.
>
>
> --- In mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com, DEC wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We have enough people to get rolling now.
> > As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.
> >
> > So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.
> >
> >  
> > David Crotty
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "rmattingly3544@"
> > To: mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> > For David Giles
> >  
> > Hi David,
> >  
> > In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
> > about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
> > included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
> > interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
> > Perhaps there will be something you can use.
> >  
> > Bob Mattingly
> > rmattingly3544@
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >From: David Giles
> > >To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
> > >Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
> > >
> > > 
> > >Hello:
> > >
> > >My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.
> > >
> > >I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 
> > >
> > >I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.
> > >
> > >My main collecting interests are:
> > >
> > >King George
> > VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
> > >Costa Rica
> > >Netherlands
> > Indies / Indonesia
> > >United States of America
> > >... and a number of topical
> > collections.
> > >
> > >With rare exception, I collect everything
> > used.
> > >
> > >With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
> > postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
> > Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
> > stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
> > perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
> > and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
> > postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
> > assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
> > paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.
> > >
> > >I look
> > forward to learning and contributing to this
> > group.
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >David Giles
> > >Ottawa, Canada
> > >
> > >
> > >Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
> > >Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
> > >Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
> > >Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
> > >Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
> > Society
> > >Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society
> > >
> > >
> >
>




Re: Paragua Aeopostale

Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
 

Dear Kent:
Thanks for trying to help with information.
We must remember the question of David Crotty about if there is or anybody knows about air mail covers from Paraguay to Europe in the very early years of the Paraguay air mail postal history.
I do not have the book so it is welcome for me your data.
If you can be so kind enough to send me pages about Paraguayan air mail transportation to Europe (if the book speaks about this or shows any cover from Paraguay to Europe) during the years 1928- 1929.
 Please write to my and send scans to my e-mails that are:
with copy to:
Kind regards,
Carlos.
 

De: Ken
Para: aerophilately@...
Enviado: sábado, 20 de julio de 2013 14:56
Asunto: [aerophilately] Re: Paragua Aeopostale
 
Dear Carlos,

I found my copy of "Historia Postal Del Correo Aereo Del Paraguay" and would be glad to scan the pages covering the early airmail services. Please advise what year I should go up to, and what is your email address.

Ken Sanford
mailto:kaerophil%40gmail.com


--- In mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com, "Carlos Gustavo" wrote:
>
> Hi David!
> About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
> The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
> Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
> (We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
> 1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
> 2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
> 3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
> 4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
> 5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
> 6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
> 7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
> 8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
> 9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
> 10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
> 11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
> 12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
> Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
> Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
> Carlos Cotlier.
>
> Bibliography.
> (1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
> (2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
> (3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
> (4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.
>
>
> --- In mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com, DEC wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We have enough people to get rolling now.
> > As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.
> >
> > So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.
> >
> >  
> > David Crotty
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "rmattingly3544@"
> > To: mailto:aerophilately%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> > For David Giles
> >  
> > Hi David,
> >  
> > In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
> > about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
> > included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
> > interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
> > Perhaps there will be something you can use.
> >  
> > Bob Mattingly
> > rmattingly3544@
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >From: David Giles
> > >To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
> > >Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
> > >Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
> > >
> > > 
> > >Hello:
> > >
> > >My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.
> > >
> > >I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 
> > >
> > >I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.
> > >
> > >My main collecting interests are:
> > >
> > >King George
> > VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
> > >Costa Rica
> > >Netherlands
> > Indies / Indonesia
> > >United States of America
> > >... and a number of topical
> > collections.
> > >
> > >With rare exception, I collect everything
> > used.
> > >
> > >With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
> > postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
> > Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
> > stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
> > perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
> > and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
> > postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
> > assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
> > paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.
> > >
> > >I look
> > forward to learning and contributing to this
> > group.
> > >
> > >Cheers!
> > >
> > >David Giles
> > >Ottawa, Canada
> > >
> > >
> > >Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
> > >Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
> > >Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
> > >Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
> > >Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
> > Society
> > >Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Paragua Aeopostale

Ken
 

Dear Carlos,

I found my copy of "Historia Postal Del Correo Aereo Del Paraguay" and would be glad to scan the pages covering the early airmail services. Please advise what year I should go up to, and what is your email address.

Ken Sanford
kaerophil@...

--- In aerophilately@..., "Carlos Gustavo" <carloscotlier@...> wrote:

Hi David!
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.


--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@> wrote:

Hi all,
We have enough people to get rolling now.
As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.

So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.

 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: "rmattingly3544@" <rmattingly3544@>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction



 
For David Giles
 
Hi David,
 
In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
Perhaps there will be something you can use.
 
Bob Mattingly
rmattingly3544@
----- Original Message -----
From: David Giles
To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction

 
Hello:

My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.

I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 

I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.

My main collecting interests are:

King George
VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
Costa Rica
Netherlands
Indies / Indonesia
United States of America
... and a number of topical
collections.

With rare exception, I collect everything
used.

With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.

I look
forward to learning and contributing to this
group.

Cheers!

David Giles
Ottawa, Canada


Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
Society
Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society


Re: learning about First Flight covers and there value

GreyOldDave
 

Forgot to mention that the AAMS has an auction going almost all the time as advertised on the website and the Airpost Journal. We print price results for each auction  on the website.

 
David Crotty


From: DEC
To: "aerophilately@..."
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 4:28 AM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] learning about First Flight covers and there value

 
Hi Al
The AAMS does have a collectors guide on paper that I keep meaning to put on the website. Maybe I can find it. But on the website www.americanairmailsociety.org click on the "Aerophilately" menu item. Sheryl Ganz provides a rather extensive survey of the collecting areas
I think the 1990 guide is the latest although the Fifth and Sixth editions of the AAMS catalog have good pricing too. I think you will see that most prices have not changed in relation to each other. Use ebay sales as a guide too.
A cover is an envelope. So a stamp on cover/envelope is often worth more than the stamp alone because there might be a postal history story about how the envelope/cover traveled. Not always but most of the time.



David Crotty

From: acarterwriter
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:15 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] learning about First Flight covers and there value

 
Hi all,

I've been trying to evaluate the value of my great-uncle's collection of First Flight covers. (He died in 1941.) At this point I don't know if I'll liquidate his collection or become a collector myself. At present a I know next to nothing, so please be patient.

Questions:

1. Is there a simple handbook or pamphlet that tells the basics of the hobby?

2. What is the latest update of values for First Flight covers? I have the AAMC 1990 Pricing Supplement. Is there anything more recent?

3. If the stamp on the envelope is more valuable than the cover, what do you do? Add the two together?

Thanks,

Al Carter






Re: learning about First Flight covers and there value

GreyOldDave
 

Hi Al
The AAMS does have a collectors guide on paper that I keep meaning to put on the website. Maybe I can find it. But on the website www.americanairmailsociety.org click on the "Aerophilately" menu item. Sheryl Ganz provides a rather extensive survey of the collecting areas
I think the 1990 guide is the latest although the Fifth and Sixth editions of the AAMS catalog have good pricing too. I think you will see that most prices have not changed in relation to each other. Use ebay sales as a guide too.
A cover is an envelope. So a stamp on cover/envelope is often worth more than the stamp alone because there might be a postal history story about how the envelope/cover traveled. Not always but most of the time.



David Crotty


From: acarterwriter
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:15 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] learning about First Flight covers and there value

 
Hi all,

I've been trying to evaluate the value of my great-uncle's collection of First Flight covers. (He died in 1941.) At this point I don't know if I'll liquidate his collection or become a collector myself. At present a I know next to nothing, so please be patient.

Questions:

1. Is there a simple handbook or pamphlet that tells the basics of the hobby?

2. What is the latest update of values for First Flight covers? I have the AAMC 1990 Pricing Supplement. Is there anything more recent?

3. If the stamp on the envelope is more valuable than the cover, what do you do? Add the two together?

Thanks,

Al Carter




Re: Digest Number 30

happyycatty
 

Hi, It's 1942!

-----Original Message-----
From: aerophilately@... [mailto:aerophilately@...]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 4:12 PM
To: aerophilately@...
Subject: [aerophilately] Digest Number 30

There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Chinese dates [1 Attachment]
From: K. David Steidley
1b. Re: Chinese dates
From: DEC
1c. Re: Chinese dates
From: Ken sanford


Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Chinese dates [1 Attachment]
Posted by: "K. David Steidley" steidley@... kdsstamp
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:00 am ((PDT))


K. David Steidley
----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
To: aerophilately@...
Cc: John Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]



[Attachment(s) from DEC included below]


Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.


David Crotty





Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Chinese dates
Posted by: "DEC" decrotty@... decrotty
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:20 pm ((PDT))

Thanks. That helps a lot.


 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: K. David Steidley <steidley@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Chinese dates



 
K. David Steidley
----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
To: aerophilately@...
Cc: John Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]

 
Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.

 
David Crotty



Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Chinese dates
Posted by: "Ken sanford" kaerophil@... aerophil2000
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:23 pm ((PDT))

Dear David,

I sent this a neighbor, who is from Taiwan, so he can tell me what the exact date is.

Regards,

Ken Sanford


On Jul 14, 2013, at 4:20 PM, DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

Thanks. That helps a lot.


David Crotty
From: K. David Steidley <steidley@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Chinese dates

<clip_image002.jpg>
K. David Steidley
----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
To: aerophilately@...
Cc: John Johnson
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]


Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.

David Crotty




Messages in this topic (4)





------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links



------------------------------------------------------------------------


learning about First Flight covers and there value

acarterwriter
 

Hi all,

I've been trying to evaluate the value of my great-uncle's collection of First Flight covers. (He died in 1941.) At this point I don't know if I'll liquidate his collection or become a collector myself. At present a I know next to nothing, so please be patient.

Questions:

1. Is there a simple handbook or pamphlet that tells the basics of the hobby?

2. What is the latest update of values for First Flight covers? I have the AAMC 1990 Pricing Supplement. Is there anything more recent?

3. If the stamp on the envelope is more valuable than the cover, what do you do? Add the two together?

Thanks,

Al Carter


Re: Chinese dates

Ken
 

Dear David,

I sent this a neighbor, who is from Taiwan, so he can tell me what the exact date is.

Regards,

Ken Sanford


On Jul 14, 2013, at 4:20 PM, DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

Thanks. That helps a lot.

 
David Crotty

From: K. David Steidley <steidley@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Chinese dates

 
K. David Steidley
----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]

 
Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.
 
David Crotty



Re: Chinese dates

GreyOldDave
 

Thanks. That helps a lot.

 
David Crotty


From: K. David Steidley
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Chinese dates

 
K. David Steidley
----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]

 
Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.
 
David Crotty



Re: Chinese dates [1 Attachment]

david steidley
 

K. David Steidley

----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:22 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] Chinese dates [1 Attachment]

 

Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.
 
David Crotty


Chinese dates

GreyOldDave
 

Can anyone read Chinese date stamps? My guess is that it is late 1943 or 1944 because it seems to have come across the Med, which didn't open up to civil aviation until late summer 1943. Thanks.
 
David Crotty


Re: Paragua Aeopostale

GreyOldDave
 

Carlos.
Thanks for your excellent reply. You have answered a difficult question for me. The judges at ARIPEX suggested that my exhibit was lacking because I did not have an example of this service. I may be back with some more questions

 
David Crotty


From: Carlos Gustavo
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:15 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] Re: Paragua Aeopostale

 
Hi David!
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> We have enough people to get rolling now.
> As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.
>
> So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.
>
>  
> David Crotty
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "rmattingly3544@..."
> To: aerophilately@...
> Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
>
>
>
>  
> For David Giles
>  
> Hi David,
>  
> In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
> about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
> included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
> interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
> Perhaps there will be something you can use.
>  
> Bob Mattingly
> rmattingly3544@...
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: David Giles
> >To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
> >Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
> >Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction
> >
> > 
> >Hello:
> >
> >My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.
> >
> >I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 
> >
> >I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.
> >
> >My main collecting interests are:
> >
> >King George
> VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
> >Costa Rica
> >Netherlands
> Indies / Indonesia
> >United States of America
> >... and a number of topical
> collections.
> >
> >With rare exception, I collect everything
> used.
> >
> >With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
> postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
> Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
> stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
> perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
> and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
> postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
> assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
> paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.
> >
> >I look
> forward to learning and contributing to this
> group.
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >David Giles
> >Ottawa, Canada
> >
> >
> >Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
> >Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
> >Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
> >Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
> >Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
> Society
> >Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society
> >
> >
>




Re: Covers from Paraguay 1929.......

Ken
 

Gentlemen,

The following is a review I did in 2004 of a book on Paraguayan airmail.  It probably holds the answer to your question, but I can't find my copy at the moment.

You might be able to get a copy from Osvaldo Portaluppi at the address shown.  He speaks English.

Ken Sanford

BOOK REVIEW

By Ken Sanford

 

HISTÓRIA POSTAL DEL CORREO AÉREO DEL PARAGUAY, (Air Mail Postal History of Paraguay) by Osvaldo Portaluppi, Anthony Chytil & Ramón Benitez Ciotti.  Published by the authors, CP29, Foz do Iguassu PR, Brazil.  197 pages, soft cover, 7 x 10 inch size.  Mixture of black & white and color illustrations.  US$30.00 plus US$7.00 surface postage worldwide.

 

This is a complete catalog of the air mails of Paraguay, which is an often overlooked country in aerophilately.  The first chapter covers historic, pioneer and experimental flights up to 1928.  The first aircraft flight in Paraguay took place in 1912.  Some experimental flights were made in 1914 when the first souvenir air mail cards were carried between Asuncion, Paraguay and Buenos Aires, Argentina.  Other experimental flights were made in 1921 with De Havilland aircraft and special covers were prepared and flown.  The Italian Francesco De Pinedo made a special flight to South America in 1927, which stopped in Asuncion and special covers were carried.  The chapter closes with the experimental tour by Curtis Airplane Export Company in 1928, which carried souvenir covers from Asuncion to Rio de Janeiro.

 

The next chapters cover the first regular airline services to neighboring countries, including rates, each chapter covering a separate year--1929, 1930 &1931.  Shown are post office rate charts, covers and stamps.  The next chapter covers the air mail services during the Chaco War, between 1932 and 1935, which was the result of a territory dispute between Bolivia and Paraguay.  Most of the services were of course, operated by the Paraguyan military units.

 

The following chapters cover the stamps and rates for the services by Condor, Air France & Deutsche Lufthansa catapult flights where mail was carried to or from Paraguay.  Other chapters cover stamps, rates, military air mail services, and rates for mail carried by specific airlines, such as Condor Lufthansa, Panair do Brasil, LATI, and other airlines up through 1945.

 

Subsequent chapters cover the air mail services of airlines, such as La Corporación Sudaméricana de Servicio Aéreo, CAUSA, ALFA, Pan American Airways, Braniff, Alitalia, Aerlineas Argentinas and other airlines through 1959.  There is a separate chapter covering the South Atlantic Zeppelin services, stamps, flights, routes, rates, and special postmarks connected with Paraguay.

 

There are a number of tables covering rate changes between 1927 and 1959, Zeppelin rates to South America from specific countries, such as England and Germany, as well as rates for mail carried by specific airlines.  There are twenty pages of reproductions of government decrees on the carriage of air mail.  There are two pages called “Anécdotas & Curiosidades” (Anecdotes & Curiosities), but I am not sure ecatly what they say, as my Spanish is very limited.  There is an extensive bibliography, which lists 130 different publications, and an Index.  The book is very well done and contains a vast amount of information on the air mails of Paraguay.  Even though the text is in Spanish, with the aid of a Spanish dictionary, it will be easy to use.  I recommend it for the collector of South American air mails.

 




On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Carlos Gustavo <carloscotlier@...> wrote:
 

Hi David,
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent work for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.



Covers from Paraguay 1929.......

Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
 

Hi David,
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent work for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.


Re: Paragua Aeopostale

Carlos Gustavo Cotlier
 

Hi David!
About your Question from Paraguay air mails covers to Europe, I am not an expert in Paraguay Air Mail but my main research and collection exhibits are the "Argentine Air Mail 1924-1939" and "Argentine Air Mail 1939-1945".(WW II).
The first stages of the Paraguay Air Mail Postal History have a strong relation with the Argentine Mail and the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima
Lets see why it is almost impossible a "official" air mail cover in the late 1920´s from Asuncion to Europe:
(We must understand as "official" as a cover that went with permission of both post offices Paraguay and Argentina or at least one of them.)
1- The first air mail services from Paraguay started with a leg to Buenos Aires - Asuncion and from Asuncion to Buenos Aires this was started by the Aeroposta Argentina Sociedad Anonima susidiarie of Conpagnie Générale Aéropostale (C.G.A.). I have no information of any other Air Company or air leg before.(1)(2)(3)( 4)Not too Davies,Bousquet, Ravignani,.Banning)
2- "Companie Générale Aéropostale, operating as Aéropostale. In compliance with local laws, the operating subsidiaries Aeroposta Argentina………"(4).
3- Test fights started on April 3, 1928 and October 31, 1928.(2)
4- On September 14,1928 an contract between Aeroposta Argentina (Mr Vicente Almandos Almonacid) and the Paraguayan Mail GPO was signed to carry mail from Asuncion to Buenos Aires, but the Argentine General Post Office had not authorized yet the transportation of any mail, so if any cover or mail was sent to Europe or any other country was under responsibility of Aeroposta Argentina but not as an official mail.
5- I never saw a Paraguayan cover to Europe or any other country with a postmak or "transit" by the Argentina GPO in 1928-29 did any one saw one?
6- Dr Victor Bousquet say in his excellent book, that any cover or postal mail transported from Buenos Aires (To Paraguay) since 1º of January,1929 and in latter fights should be considered as "experimental air mail" ( in Spanish "ensayos de correo aereo")in a few words he says that any cover from Argentina to Paraguay and logically from Paraguay to Argentina (if they do exist) were transported "illegally" by Aeroposta.(Pag 70).
7- The Argentinian Government authorized on February 27, 1929 to Aeroposta SA to carry mail from and to Argentina and between the stops to Asuncion and to bring Paraguayan mail to neighboring countries only.
8- This service (Aeroposta) was interrupted for economical reasons on April 17, 1931.
9- "Paraguay was to be without air service for six years" (1) Pag 507.
10- "Pan American Airways was authorized to serve Asuncion by the Decree of June 21, 1937, and started a service in December 1937, flying Lock heed Electras from Sao Pulo, via Curitiba and Iguazu Falls, and to Buenos Aires via Monte Caseros" (1) But this is part of another story………
11- Well, about what the Judge told you I can tell you Injustice it do exist!!
12- My cogratulations for your excellent article at the Airpost Journal Dec 2012 about Pan American Airways 1942. Confidential Timetables.
Hope you become vice-president of our AAMS I am sure you will do an excellent wok for the AAMS.
Kind regards to you and all the people of the forum.
Carlos Cotlier.

Bibliography.
(1) R.E.G. Davies –Airlines of Latin America –Since 1919 .Chapter 25 Pag 507.
(2) A.V. Bousquet. La Aeroposta Argentina y el Correo Aereo – Chapter 5 Pgs 65 to 109.
(3) M. E. Ravignani. La Linea . Pgs 22 to 24.
(4) G. Banning -Airlines of Pan American Since 1927 .Pag 225.

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

Hi all,
We have enough people to get rolling now.
As some of you may know I have an exhibit of transAtlantic airmail between South America and Europe. It does happen that the early French airline Aeropostal started service to Paraguay in about 1928 or so and due to money problems stopped that in about a year or so. Air France resumed service to Paraguay in maybe 1933. My exhibit shows examples of the later service but not for the early. Some silly judge noticed that an commented that I should have something to show that early service. I think there might be 10 covers in the world for that short period of service.

So anyway, if anyone knows where such an airmail cover to or from Paraguay in the late 1920s to Europe via Aeropostale might be found, I'm interested.

 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: "rmattingly3544@..." <rmattingly3544@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction



 
For David Giles
 
Hi David,
 
In reading your introduction I arrived at the part
about Texas aerophilately. A few years back I bought an auction lot that
included some Texas items which are still sitting around someplace. If you are
interested, send me an email and I will dig them out and send you a list.
Perhaps there will be something you can use.
 
Bob Mattingly
rmattingly3544@...
----- Original Message -----
From: David Giles
To: Aerophilately Yahoo Group
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] New Member Introduction

 
Hello:

My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.

I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 

I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.

My main collecting interests are:

King George
VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
Costa Rica
Netherlands
Indies / Indonesia
United States of America
... and a number of topical
collections.

With rare exception, I collect everything
used.

With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air
postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight
Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail
stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings,
perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city
and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter
postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am
assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover,
paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.

I look
forward to learning and contributing to this
group.

Cheers!

David Giles
Ottawa, Canada


Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society
Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors
Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association
Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
Member, The Ottawa Philatelic
Society
Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society


Re: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944

Curt Heckert
 

Great reply.

Thanks David

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

Curt
There are many CAM, AM, First flights and FDC and etc. that are very common and not very expensive. Many of the first flights had so many covers that they were enough to give the pilot a problem flying the plane. That is not always the case. The catalog can give you a hint because for many of these the catalog can show the numbers of covers known and some of the low numbered ones can be hard to find.
We had a discussion at APS last week during the airmail postal history session (we had five teachers and three students) that there may be many thousands of "Airmail Week" covers from many airports, so it would be hard to make a complete collection, but on the other hand there are many of them to collect and easy to find.
The 6 to 10 AAMS auctions each year have many of these kinds of covers and they are on ebay too. AAMS sale 277 just closed and sale 278 opens today. See the AAMS website for the auction list.
You have to decide what you want to collect. They are all good stuff really.
The purpose of showing the PAA flight summaries is that they can help collectors determine how some of the covers traveled. I am almost finished with a book that collects the pertinent numbers from these sheets in hopes that collectors find the numbers useful in a more organized form.
 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: curtcoach <curtheckert@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 9:54 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] Re: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944



 
Thanks David,

Interestingly, I had just begun scanning my covers including CAM, Pioneer flights, FDC, and just about anything related to air mail I can afford. Am I correct in assuming that any cover might be useful?

Curt

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@> wrote:

BTW, forgot to mention that the first file is an appendix from the book in which I try to list all 14 of the Atlantic routes that PAA developed as it tried to serve the Atlantic while up against not only the war but the weather and the needs of the military.


 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: DEC <decrotty@>
To: "aerophilately@..." <aerophilately@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944



All,
The Aerophilately group has places for files and photo albums. We have lots of space to share information and I invite any of you to build a folder with info of your interest. The photo albums will only take photos but are very useful for perhaps a group of interesting CAM covers. Keep in mind that as the AAMS publishes the next catalogs it want to do the covers in color so someone has to find those covers, scan them and store them. This would be a good place to store them.

I have just mounted some but not all of the "trip summaries" that I found at the University of Miami Richter Library in their Pan Am special collection. We found these last summer about this time and spent a good deal of time digging up much more info than this about PAA's operations during the war. PAA continued its commercial operations through that time (and these are only from the commercial side) but operated a wide range of missions for the Army and Navy. The library has given me permission to mount these here for research use. We cannot publish them in any other way but you can print them out for your own use.
I am about 99% finished with a 400 page book that will include all this data plus a good deal of auxiliary information about this interesting period. I'm in the middle of proofing the book with the able assistance of Vickie Canfield Peters. The hardest part is checking the numbers that I transcribed from these and other types of sheets.

 
David Crotty


Re: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944

GreyOldDave
 

Curt
There are many CAM, AM, First flights and FDC and etc. that are very common and not very expensive. Many of the first flights had so many covers that they were enough to give the pilot a problem flying the plane. That is not always the case. The catalog can give you a hint because for many of these the catalog can show the numbers of covers known and some of the low numbered ones can be hard to find.
We had a discussion at APS last week during the airmail postal history session (we had five teachers and three students) that there may be many thousands of "Airmail Week" covers from many airports, so it would be hard to make a complete collection, but on the other hand there are many of them to collect and easy to find.
The 6 to 10 AAMS auctions each year have many of these kinds of covers and they are on ebay too. AAMS sale 277 just closed and sale 278 opens today. See the AAMS website for the auction list.
You have to decide what you want to collect. They are all good stuff really.
The purpose of showing the PAA flight summaries is that they can help collectors determine how some of the covers traveled. I am almost finished with a book that collects the pertinent numbers from these sheets in hopes that collectors find the numbers useful in a more organized form.
 
David Crotty


From: curtcoach <curtheckert@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 9:54 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] Re: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944

 
Thanks David,

Interestingly, I had just begun scanning my covers including CAM, Pioneer flights, FDC, and just about anything related to air mail I can afford. Am I correct in assuming that any cover might be useful?

Curt

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC wrote:
>
> BTW, forgot to mention that the first file is an appendix from the book in which I try to list all 14 of the Atlantic routes that PAA developed as it tried to serve the Atlantic while up against not only the war but the weather and the needs of the military.
>
>
>  
> David Crotty
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: DEC
> To: "aerophilately@..." <aerophilately@...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:20 PM
> Subject: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944
>
>
>
> All,
> The Aerophilately group has places for files and photo albums. We have lots of space to share information and I invite any of you to build a folder with info of your interest. The photo albums will only take photos but are very useful for perhaps a group of interesting CAM covers. Keep in mind that as the AAMS publishes the next catalogs it want to do the covers in color so someone has to find those covers, scan them and store them. This would be a good place to store them.
>
> I have just mounted some but not all of the "trip summaries" that I found at the University of Miami Richter Library in their Pan Am special collection. We found these last summer about this time and spent a good deal of time digging up much more info than this about PAA's operations during the war. PAA continued its commercial operations through that time (and these are only from the commercial side) but operated a wide range of missions for the Army and Navy. The library has given me permission to mount these here for research use. We cannot publish them in any other way but you can print them out for your own use.
> I am about 99% finished with a 400 page book that will include all this data plus a good deal of auxiliary information about this interesting period. I'm in the middle of proofing the book with the able assistance of Vickie Canfield Peters. The hardest part is checking the numbers that I transcribed from these and other types of sheets.
>
>  
> David Crotty
>




Re: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944

Curt Heckert
 

Thanks David,

Interestingly, I had just begun scanning my covers including CAM, Pioneer flights, FDC, and just about anything related to air mail I can afford. Am I correct in assuming that any cover might be useful?

Curt

--- In aerophilately@..., DEC <decrotty@...> wrote:

BTW, forgot to mention that the first file is an appendix from the book in which I try to list all 14 of the Atlantic routes that PAA developed as it tried to serve the Atlantic while up against not only the war but the weather and the needs of the military.


 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: DEC <decrotty@...>
To: "aerophilately@..." <aerophilately@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: PAA Atlantic operations 1939-1944



All,
The Aerophilately group has places for files and photo albums. We have lots of space to share information and I invite any of you to build a folder with info of your interest. The photo albums will only take photos but are very useful for perhaps a group of interesting CAM covers. Keep in mind that as the AAMS publishes the next catalogs it want to do the covers in color so someone has to find those covers, scan them and store them. This would be a good place to store them.

I have just mounted some but not all of the "trip summaries" that I found at the University of Miami Richter Library in their Pan Am special collection. We found these last summer about this time and spent a good deal of time digging up much more info than this about PAA's operations during the war. PAA continued its commercial operations through that time (and these are only from the commercial side) but operated a wide range of missions for the Army and Navy. The library has given me permission to mount these here for research use. We cannot publish them in any other way but you can print them out for your own use.
I am about 99% finished with a 400 page book that will include all this data plus a good deal of auxiliary information about this interesting period. I'm in the middle of proofing the book with the able assistance of Vickie Canfield Peters. The hardest part is checking the numbers that I transcribed from these and other types of sheets.

 
David Crotty

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