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Welcome New Member and APS School

GreyOldDave
 

I would like to welcome several new members this last week to the Aerophilately yahoo group. We are small but growing and our goal is to discuss aerophilatelic subjects. I think that everyone so far is also a member of the AAMS but we do not absolutely require that to join this group. I make sure that all new members are moderated until we hear from them at least once. That helps keep down the spam that plagues a number of online groups. However, it may cause your first message to the group to be a little delayed until I get to the computer that day or the next day.

That being said, the APS School in two weeks has about 60 students signed up so far. However, I was just told by Gretchen Moody that the Aerophilately class that David Steidley has prepared (and that I will help teach) has only 2 registered students. Because of that they have moved us to a smaller room but there is room there for two more students. Would be nice if some of you could join us. If you can, please call Gretchen at 814 933 3810 or email gretchen@....
 
David Crotty


New Member Intro

Steve B. Davis
 

Hi to all just found about this group from AAMS site. I am the founder/moderator of the US Specialized Yahoo Group (APS Affiliate) and a long time member of the American Air Mail Society, AAPE, Auxiliary Markings Club and APS as well.

I don't collect stamps per se, but postal history. Not into FDC or Event Covers. Specialized air mail interests include,

6c Transport Airmail Issue of 1941 - exhibit this and am up to Silver. Won a Vermeil for an overall Transport Airmail Exhibit, but pared that down and now into just the 6c value. The military aspects intrigue me. Lots of interesting rates and usages during WW II period.

25c & 31& Jet Plane & Globes Airmail Issue of 1976 - up to Silver on this one.

Scenic American Landscape Issue of 1999 - 2012 - this is the international rate series. Most interesting for a modern issue because of all the rate changes. Covers to Mexico are the hardest to obtain I find. Hope to exhibit some aspect of this series soon.

5c DC-4 Skymaster Airmail Issues 1946-48 - was up to Silver on this but now getting out of it.

All these I collect on covers paying proper rates. With the more modern ones I try for exotic destinations or interesting postal markings.

I highly recommend a membership in the AAMS if you love airmail from any country.

Steve B. Davis
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


New Member Introduction

Dave Giles
 

Hello:

My name is David Giles and I have just joined this Yahoo Group.

I am 48-years old, and have been collecting stamps since I was eight-years old.  I got back into the hobby, seriously, when I was 24-years old. 

I have been a member of a few other Yahoo Groups and found them most helpful and informative.

My main collecting interests are:

King George VI Reign of the British Commonwealth (1937-1952)
Costa Rica
Netherlands Indies / Indonesia
United States of America
... and a number of topical collections.

With rare exception, I collect everything used.

With respect to aerophilately, my main collecting interest is air postal history of the State of Texas.  I am interested in First Flight Covers and Aeroport Dedication covers.  I also collect U.S. airmail stamps (as part of a U.S. collection) with an emphasis on marginal markings, perfins and precancels, both on and off cover.  I also collect Texas city and town postmarks, New York City postmarks, fancy numeral and letter postmarks, and "air mail" postmarks on airmail stamps.  I also am assembling a collection of covers with each airmail stamp used on cover, paying the rate it was intended for, postmarked in Texas.

I look forward to learning and contributing to this group.

Cheers!

David Giles
Ottawa, Canada

Member No. 204340, The American Philatelic Society

Member No. 685 & member of the Board-of-Directors, The Society of Costa Rica Collectors

Member No. 54687, The American Topical Association

Member No. 1535, The Postal History Society of Canada
Member, The Ottawa Philatelic Society

Co-ordinator, United States Study Group of The Ottawa Philatelic Society


Re: mail carried by PAA special missions

Robert Mattingly
 

Hi David:
 
Not certain, but I don't think any of the SM flights that went to India (#'s 06, 07, 08, 11) used the full F22 route -- they did not go to Leopoldville.
I do  have SM 16 (to Seychelles and Diego Garcia) going via Leo.
 Source: Xerox of a page from Matt Rodina citing Univ of Miami records.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if some SM's carried mail simply because there was a war on and protocols got bent in order to "get the job done."
Am very weak on the mechanics of APO/FPO mail interface with USPOD; of course APO/FPO mail from overseas was handled by the armed forces until it hit the CONUS. I do know that some foreign military mail was carried by U. S. contractors, for example, airgrams home from Australians training in Canada.
 
Would agree that "Contract mail" was almost certainly USPO mail.
 
Look forward to hearing more about your book. Great idea.
 
Bob Mattingly
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:12 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] mail carried by PAA special missions

 

Hello all
We are still a small group but we should get started. The idea is to exchange info, ask questions, find answers. Here is the first one from me.
I am putting a book together that contains most of the information I've found about PAA at the U. Miami PAA Archives. One question that keeps coming up is whether PAA special missions carried USPO mail or just military. It happens that two missions, 6 and 7 if my memory serves, were conducted immediately after the first FAM22 flight in December 1941. These trips followed the same route as the FAM22 inaugural flight but continued on to Karachi, returning the pretty much the same route. The records for those flights show some PO mail and some company mail. Most of the rest of the records, if they have anything about what the cargo was, just say mail.
Of course, just a little later in 1942 the missions became largely shuttles between Brazil and Africa. For many of these there is just one spare letter ordering the captain to follow the route, make as many shuttles and possible and carry mail passengers and cargo.
There is a report in the collection about a guy named Coolord who was sent to set up bases in Brazil and Lagos and later Fisherman's Lake. His report covers Margh 1942 through July 1943 when the shuttles ended using the B314. His report shows amounts of cargo and mail for each month. He just says "mail".
Now, the Trip Summaries that I found all have a collumn for "contract mail" which must have been USPO mail.
Anyway. I'd like your opinions on this.
 
David Crotty


mail carried by PAA special missions

GreyOldDave
 

Hello all
We are still a small group but we should get started. The idea is to exchange info, ask questions, find answers. Here is the first one from me.
I am putting a book together that contains most of the information I've found about PAA at the U. Miami PAA Archives. One question that keeps coming up is whether PAA special missions carried USPO mail or just military. It happens that two missions, 6 and 7 if my memory serves, were conducted immediately after the first FAM22 flight in December 1941. These trips followed the same route as the FAM22 inaugural flight but continued on to Karachi, returning the pretty much the same route. The records for those flights show some PO mail and some company mail. Most of the rest of the records, if they have anything about what the cargo was, just say mail.
Of course, just a little later in 1942 the missions became largely shuttles between Brazil and Africa. For many of these there is just one spare letter ordering the captain to follow the route, make as many shuttles and possible and carry mail passengers and cargo.
There is a report in the collection about a guy named Coolord who was sent to set up bases in Brazil and Lagos and later Fisherman's Lake. His report covers Margh 1942 through July 1943 when the shuttles ended using the B314. His report shows amounts of cargo and mail for each month. He just says "mail".
Now, the Trip Summaries that I found all have a collumn for "contract mail" which must have been USPO mail.
Anyway. I'd like your opinions on this.
 
David Crotty


Summer Aerophilatelic Seminar

GreyOldDave
 

Folks,
The Summer Aerophilatelic Seminar is where we all should meet this summer.
 
David Crotty
----- Forwarded Message -----

From: K. David Steidley
To: Webmaster@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 4:50 PM
Subject: Add this

In order to increase enrollment to the APS course(only 1 so far), could you post this on the web and on the Yahoo site?
 
Thanks.
 
K. David



Re: Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

Ken
 

I sent this question to Brian Asquith in the UK, who is an expert on Chinese Airmails. He in turn sent it to Egil Thomassen in Norway. The following is the exchange of emails between the three of us:

Email from Brian Asquith to Egil Thomassen â€" 15 Feb. 2013

I received this email from Ken Sanford and would have thought that you were the ideal man to answer him. Do you know Henning Mathiassen who apparently lives in Norway.

According to a splendid book "Norwegian Air Mail" written in immaculate English by one Egil Thomassen on p. 169 states that
China
1) 1926 air mail to China could be sent via Berlin-Manchouli and trans-Siberian railway.
(BLA) The Eurasia airmail route from Irkutsk to Shanghai had been cancelled by 1933.
2) From 1st December 1932 the air mail to Southern China was directed via the Marseilles-Saigon route.
(BLA) The cover sounds to be directed to Hong Kong which I would regard as Southern China (it would be nice to see a picture of the cover). Why would the mail be directed via Air France rather than Imperial Airways?.

You state on the same page that the rate was 160 but the email says you had to add 30 ore to postage making 190 and only 145 has been paid.

Can you help at all?

Email from Egil Thomassen to Brian Asquith â€" 16 Feb. 2013

A solution may be this:
The international "Liste generale de services aeropostaux", date May 1932, state that airmail from Norway to Hong Kong carried with the French Marseilles-Saigon route ha to be paid with international rate 30 øre + airmail rate 160 øre = 190 øre. The cover in mention has not been paid for the French route (the post clerck in Arendal may not have been updated, or other reasons) and hence the cover was sent via Berlin and Siberia. That will explain the 16 days between transit in Berlin and arrival in Hong Kong. If the intention had been to send the cover with the French route, Norway Post would have sent the cover with railways to Malmø (Sweden) for forwarding by air to Paris and Marseilles. No idea sending it to Berlin then.
The airmail rate to China via Siberia (or to Siberia itself) was 100 øre. Why 45 øre was added I can not explain, but an airmail cover to Russian Europe was 45 øre.

Email from BrianAsquith to Ken Sanford â€" 16 Feb. 2013

As mentioned in my email to Egil, copied to you:-
(BLA) The Eurasia airmail route from Irkutsk to Shanghai had been cancelled, -
due to the invasion of Manchuria by the Japanese in 1932, changing the name to Manchukuo.
The cover would probably have been flown by the Russo-German Deruluft airline Berlin - Moscow then by the Russian Dobrolet airline from Moscow to Irkutsk, then trans-Siberian railway to Vladivostock, From there, probably by sea to Tsingtao or Shanghai, then CNAC to destination (Hong Kong Airmails by Colonel Webb).

Email from Egil Thomassen to Ken Sanford â€" 16 Feb. 2013

The Eurasia airmail route from Irkutsk to Shanghai had been cancelled by 1933.
The cover was flown Berlin-Danzig-Köningsberg-Kaunas-Velike Luki-Moscow, and from Moscow daily route over Kasan-Sverdlovsk-Omsk-Nowo Sibirsk-Krasnojarsk-Irkutsk-Werchene Udinsk-Tschita to Chabarowsk. From Irkutsk route to Vitim and Jakutsk. From Chabarowsk route every third day to Vladivostok. I do not know how the mail was forwarded either from Irkutsk or Vladivostok through China to Hong Kong.

Regards,
Egil


Re: First Flight Covers

david steidley
 


One of the advantages of AAMS is that you may sell at auction. Of course anyone may buy.
 
K. David Steidley
Vice-president

----- Original Message -----
From: DEC
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] First Flight Covers

 

The AAMS does have an auction  about 6 times a year. You are welcome to use that. Check out www.americanairmailsociety.com
David Crotty

From: TheGreenTreeFrog <hoyt@...>
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:14 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] First Flight Covers

 
My father had a large collection of First Flight Covers.
I'm looking to sell the Rarest at auction. A Balbo signed cover. Carried by the General NY To Roma, Also flown Triptich Milano to NY.




Re: First Flight Covers

GreyOldDave
 

The AAMS does have an auction  about 6 times a year. You are welcome to use that. Check out www.americanairmailsociety.com
David Crotty


From: TheGreenTreeFrog
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:14 PM
Subject: [aerophilately] First Flight Covers

 
My father had a large collection of First Flight Covers.
I'm looking to sell the Rarest at auction. A Balbo signed cover. Carried by the General NY To Roma, Also flown Triptich Milano to NY.




First Flight Covers

TheGreenTreeFrog <hoyt@...>
 

My father had a large collection of First Flight Covers.
I'm looking to sell the Rarest at auction. A Balbo signed cover. Carried by the General NY To Roma, Also flown Triptich Milano to NY.


Re: Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

Henning Jarle Mathiassen
 

This is a somewhat curious letter concerning postage as the airmail fee from Dec 1. 1932 until January 1. 1935 was 160 ore, and you had to add 30 ore standard international postage. Thus an ordinary letter up to 20 grams would cost 190 ore.
 
Then to the routing. According to circular of the Norwegian Post, postal items by airmail should be directed via the French route Marseilles to Saigon. From Saigon the mail was forwarded by boat to Hong Kong. A lot of Norwegian  air mail was sent via Berlin in the 1930ies, to be forwarded to other European destinations. This explains the Berlin postmarks. But I guess the French were getting sloppy concerning air mail letters in transit.
 
Henning Mathiassen
Norway


Re: Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

Ken
 

In my opinion, the cover would have been flown by Eurasia Airlines from Berlin to Hong Kong.

If it went via Berlin, it is unlikely that it would have been forwarded to another European city to connect to Imperial Airways.

Ken SAnford

--- In aerophilately@yahoogroups.com, DEC wrote:

You might try to find a copy of Eduard Proud's book Intercontinental Airmails Volume Two Asia and Australasia. THis book lists the British, Dutch and French schedules.
I'm not an expert at this and I have not taken the time as yet to look at all the possibilities. The rate is about right and I assume it has an airmail sticker. If Imperial Airways took it
1. Norway to Berlin by train. (the train station postmark)
2. Berlin to Paris by train or DLH (or one of the other IA/DLH connector stops)
3. IA to Rangoon.
4. sea to Hong Kong.

A cover image would help. There should be cachet calling for IA, KLM or Air France.


 
David Crotty


________________________________
From: happyycatty
To: aerophilately@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:34 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933


 
Hi, please help to provide possible route for cover mentioned as below & tell me if U want to have cover image both face & front, thank you.

1) From: Arendal, Norway dated Dec 11, 1933 with Rate: 1Kr45
2) Transit: Sassnitz (Berlin-Sassnitz (Hafen) Bahnpost Zug18*- 13.12.33)
3) Transit: Berlin, Germany dated Dec 13, 1933
4) Arrive: Hong Kong Dec 29, 1933


Re: Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

GreyOldDave
 

You might try to find a copy of Eduard Proud's book Intercontinental Airmails Volume Two Asia and Australasia. THis book lists the British, Dutch and French schedules.
I'm not an expert at this and I have not taken the time as yet to look at all the possibilities. The rate is about right and I assume it has an airmail sticker. If Imperial Airways took it
1. Norway to Berlin by train. (the train station postmark)
2. Berlin to Paris by train or DLH (or one of the other IA/DLH connector stops)
3. IA to Rangoon.
4. sea to Hong Kong.

A cover image would help. There should be cachet calling for IA, KLM or Air France.

 
David Crotty


From: happyycatty
To: aerophilately@...
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 2:34 AM
Subject: [aerophilately] Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

 
Hi, please help to provide possible route for cover mentioned as below & tell me if U want to have cover image both face & front, thank you.

1) From: Arendal, Norway dated Dec 11, 1933 with Rate: 1Kr45
2) Transit: Sassnitz (Berlin-Sassnitz (Hafen) Bahnpost Zug18*- 13.12.33)
3) Transit: Berlin, Germany dated Dec 13, 1933
4) Arrive: Hong Kong Dec 29, 1933




Norway to Hong Kong via Germany ARENDAL airmail 1933

happyycatty
 

Hi, please help to provide possible route for cover mentioned as below & tell me if U want to have cover image both face & front, thank you.

1) From: Arendal, Norway dated Dec 11, 1933 with Rate: 1Kr45
2) Transit: Sassnitz (Berlin-Sassnitz (Hafen) Bahnpost Zug18*- 13.12.33)
3) Transit: Berlin, Germany dated Dec 13, 1933
4) Arrive: Hong Kong Dec 29, 1933


Re: Intro to group

Ken
 

Dear Bob,

You can join the American Air Mail Society by going to www.americanairmailsociety.org, and click on "Application".

The dues are US$58.00.  The Society doesn't accept PayPal, so if you want to pay by PayPal, you can pay to my email address and add $2.35 to cover the PayPal fee.

Send the completed application to me as an email attachment.

Happy New Year,

Ken Sanford

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 27, 2012, at 6:36 PM, "Bob Watson" <bob.watson@...> wrote:

 

Ken

Yes, I am. (But I must join the AAMS.)

 

By the way, the AMSNZ in conjunction with Mowbray Collectables just published “New Zealand Overseas Airmail Postage Rates, 1930-2011” by Robin Startup. If you are a member of the AMSNZ there’s a discounted price. Contact Alan for further details. Otherwise, Mowbray Collectables (houseofstmps@...) has a good stock.

Bob

 

 

 

From: aerophilately@... [mailto:aerophilately@...] On Behalf Of Ken Sanford
Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012 2:25 a.m.
To: aerophilately@...
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Intro to group

 

 

Dear Bob,

Are you a member of the Air Mail Society of New Zealand. If not, you might like to join.  You can contact Alan Tunnicliffe at alant@....

Happy New Year,

Ken Sanford

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 8:13 PM, neopanax <bob.watson@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,
I'm Bob Watson. I live in New Zealand, but I'm originally from the US (Wilmington, Delaware). I collect all aspects of mail to/from USA & New Zealand, including air mail of course. My main concern is routes and rates, but I'm not strictly limited to that. (I have to try not to fly off on various tangents as they present themselves, but I'm only moderately successful a that.) Thee's other collections/accumulations, but I won't bother you with those.
Cheers (as they say here),
Bob

 


Re: Intro to group

Bob Watson
 

Ken

Yes, I am. (But I must join the AAMS.)

 

By the way, the AMSNZ in conjunction with Mowbray Collectables just published “New Zealand Overseas Airmail Postage Rates, 1930-2011” by Robin Startup. If you are a member of the AMSNZ there’s a discounted price. Contact Alan for further details. Otherwise, Mowbray Collectables (houseofstmps@...) has a good stock.

Bob

 

 

 

From: aerophilately@... [mailto:aerophilately@...] On Behalf Of Ken Sanford
Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012 2:25 a.m.
To: aerophilately@...
Subject: Re: [aerophilately] Intro to group

 

 

Dear Bob,

Are you a member of the Air Mail Society of New Zealand. If not, you might like to join.  You can contact Alan Tunnicliffe at alant@....

Happy New Year,

Ken Sanford

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 8:13 PM, neopanax <bob.watson@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,
I'm Bob Watson. I live in New Zealand, but I'm originally from the US (Wilmington, Delaware). I collect all aspects of mail to/from USA & New Zealand, including air mail of course. My main concern is routes and rates, but I'm not strictly limited to that. (I have to try not to fly off on various tangents as they present themselves, but I'm only moderately successful a that.) Thee's other collections/accumulations, but I won't bother you with those.
Cheers (as they say here),
Bob

 


Re: Intro to group

Ken
 

Dear Bob,

Are you a member of the Air Mail Society of New Zealand. If not, you might like to join.  You can contact Alan Tunnicliffe at alant@....

Happy New Year,

Ken Sanford


On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 8:13 PM, neopanax <bob.watson@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,
I'm Bob Watson. I live in New Zealand, but I'm originally from the US (Wilmington, Delaware). I collect all aspects of mail to/from USA & New Zealand, including air mail of course. My main concern is routes and rates, but I'm not strictly limited to that. (I have to try not to fly off on various tangents as they present themselves, but I'm only moderately successful a that.) Thee's other collections/accumulations, but I won't bother you with those.
Cheers (as they say here),
Bob



V-Mails from New Zealand

Bob Watson
 

I have a couple of V-mails from senders with New Zealand return addresses (yes, from the US system, not the British airgraph system).

One is from a Marine at APO 715 on 4 December 1943 which was the 39th General Hospital at Auckland, NZ. Two others are from senders at Fleet PO 133 which was at Wellington, NZ Oct 3, 1942 - Dec 1, 1945. all 3 had been microfilmed and reprinted Stateside for sending to addressees. To my knowledge there were no actual V-mail facilities here in NZ, the closest being in Australia. Also, I believe the V-mail and British Airgraph setups were separate without any intercommunication, at least in NZ.

Can anyone provide an explanation as to where these were microfilmed?


Intro to group

Bob Watson
 

Hi all,
I'm Bob Watson. I live in New Zealand, but I'm originally from the US (Wilmington, Delaware). I collect all aspects of mail to/from USA & New Zealand, including air mail of course. My main concern is routes and rates, but I'm not strictly limited to that. (I have to try not to fly off on various tangents as they present themselves, but I'm only moderately successful a that.) Thee's other collections/accumulations, but I won't bother you with those.
Cheers (as they say here),
Bob


Welcome and lets get started

GreyOldDave
 

Welcome to the Aerophilately discussion group.
At this point there are only 9 of us. It is my experience that it takes about 2 years to get a good group going. We can start now however.
As some of you may know I found about 450 "trip summaries" at the University of Miami that describe in great detail the operations of Pan American Airways in the Atlantic during World War II.These are trips that are missing from all compilations of PAA operations from this period. I have three articles submitted to APJ, one of which came out in December. I don't know when the other two will be used.
One thing that Jim Graue suggested at Sacramento was to build a catalog of information in tables very much like he did with the DLH data.
So far I have 1939 through 1943 done. I have 1943 yet to go. Unfortunately I have nothing for 1945.
I have the data for the NY to Foynes flights but I will leave them until later since these are not the great mystery that 1942 through 1944 are in the south Atlantic.
I do need some help proofreading all my data keywork. I'm sure there are many typos and there is the occasional spot where it is not clear if this number is a 5 or a 6 or an 8.  If anyone wants to help the advantage would be that I have to give you a copy of the collection.
Keep in mind the collection of trip summaries cannot be published due to copyright restrictions from the U. Miami, and my work will be copyrighted as well. Eventually Jim G suggested this might become part of the AAMS catalog or we may publish in some other way.
And happy holidays!

David Crotty

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