Specific Paths for RFOnly.


Rob Giuliano
 

Probably a good idea, if you want it to be RF only.
Otherwise, you can't be sure.

Rob KB8RCO



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 9:19 AM, Dan Hurd
<dan@...> wrote:
Should I have NOGATE in my path to insure it doesn't get gated at the first DIGI ? (These are big wide area digi's that all igate also) 

Dan W5DMH


Dan Hurd
 

I'm struggling with this....NOGATE seems to cause the digi to ignore the packet 
When I remove NOGATE, even though I have a specified path, the local digi will repeat it anyway
I tried RFONLY too and the digis seem to ignore the packets and do not transmit

I have to be doing something wrong, it would seem like this should work. 

Dan W5DMH 


James Ewen
 

Rob,

You can be sure of the path taken by observing the used path elements in the received packet. 

Of course this means actually looking at the packets received, but if Dan is interested in experimenting like this, then he and his buddy will need to be doing just that. 

I am interested in hearing why Dan is trying this experiment. 

Much more fun than just the usual “I want to tell the world the temperature in my back yard every 5 minutes.” type of stuff. 

Experimenting on RF is the heart of amateur radio!



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 07:26 Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Probably a good idea, if you want it to be RF only.
Otherwise, you can't be sure.

Rob KB8RCO



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 9:19 AM, Dan Hurd
<dan@...> wrote:
Should I have NOGATE in my path to insure it doesn't get gated at the first DIGI ? (These are big wide area digi's that all igate also) 

Dan W5DMH

--
James
VE6SRV


James Ewen
 

Dan,

Where are you putting NOGATE in your outbound path?

Put it at the end. I suspect you have it as the first hop. 

Digipeaters look at the first unused hop request. If NOGATE is the first hop request, then you will need to have a misconfigured digipeater act upon the NOGATE alias. 



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 08:40 James Ewen via groups.io <ve6srv=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Rob,

You can be sure of the path taken by observing the used path elements in the received packet. 

Of course this means actually looking at the packets received, but if Dan is interested in experimenting like this, then he and his buddy will need to be doing just that. 

I am interested in hearing why Dan is trying this experiment. 

Much more fun than just the usual “I want to tell the world the temperature in my back yard every 5 minutes.” type of stuff. 

Experimenting on RF is the heart of amateur radio!



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 07:26 Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Probably a good idea, if you want it to be RF only.
Otherwise, you can't be sure.

Rob KB8RCO



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 9:19 AM, Dan Hurd
<dan@...> wrote:
Should I have NOGATE in my path to insure it doesn't get gated at the first DIGI ? (These are big wide area digi's that all igate also) 

Dan W5DMH

--
James
VE6SRV

--
James
VE6SRV


Dan Hurd
 

The reason is not so lofty....my buddy has a digi/igate at his location however he is in an area that routinely loses internet and only has one wide digi that can reach him (and that is questionable) 
I want to develop an RF path to him that will allow us to contact each other when his internet is down. 
Seems like it should be far easier than I am experiencing. 


Dan 


Dan Hurd
 

No I am putting it as the last entry at the end....typical path looks like: 

MAYVIL,JAMTWP,K8FSU,NOGATE 


Dan W5DMH


Dan Hurd
 

Maybe I am looking at success all wrong ....
I am first looking at the live traffic in Xastir to see if the first digi in my path string is receiving it and repeating it. 
I am not seeing a repeat coming out of the designated digi, even when I select one I know I can reach without question....but if I remove the NOGATE the same digi will repeat
I am also looking at the APRS.fi for the digi to see if I am being heard..but the NOGATE would mean that he should not be posting that on APRS.fi correct? 

Dan W5DMH 


James Ewen
 

NOGATE means that your packet will not be forwarded to the APRS-IS by compliant I-gates. 

Do NOT look at aprs.fi or other APRS-IS feeds for your information. The APRS-IS feed is heavily filtered, so you will rarely see an accurate account of what is happening on the APRS network. 

Look at raw packets that are heard by your RF connected device. 

I don’t recall if this has been asked or if we know the answer yet. 

Do you have a TNC/radio connected to your station that you are using to communicate with the local APRS RF network?



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 09:11 Dan Hurd <dan@...> wrote:
Maybe I am looking at success all wrong ....
I am first looking at the live traffic in Xastir to see if the first digi in my path string is receiving it and repeating it. 
I am not seeing a repeat coming out of the designated digi, even when I select one I know I can reach without question....but if I remove the NOGATE the same digi will repeat
I am also looking at the APRS.fi for the digi to see if I am being heard..but the NOGATE would mean that he should not be posting that on APRS.fi correct? 

Dan W5DMH 

--
James
VE6SRV


Dan Hurd
 

Yes I'm running direwolf connected to an FT-857d connected to a full wave 2m ant on the top of a 55ft tower...I have internet turned off for this testing. 

Dan W5DMH


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

It may be that Xastir is filtering the NOGATE before showing you the log of received packets.  You need to be looking at the actual RF received traffic to know if you copied the digipeat.  Double-check that the log you are looking at is showing the raw reception and not a post-processed packet that may be dropping due to NOGATE.

You can probably also listen by ear with another radio on 144.390 (or whatever your local APRS frequency is) to hear what the digipeat sounds like and see if you hear a similar sound with the NOGATE included, regardless of what Xastir's logs show.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 1/7/2022 11:11 AM, Dan Hurd wrote:
Maybe I am looking at success all wrong ....
I am first looking at the live traffic in Xastir to see if the first digi in my path string is receiving it and repeating it. 
I am not seeing a repeat coming out of the designated digi, even when I select one I know I can reach without question....but if I remove the NOGATE the same digi will repeat
I am also looking at the APRS.fi for the digi to see if I am being heard..but the NOGATE would mean that he should not be posting that on APRS.fi correct? 

Dan W5DMH 


Dan Hurd
 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH 


Brian Webster N2KGC
 

One thing to remember about this experiment, APRS packets are a UI unconnected broadcast and you are not guaranteed delivery of the pack to the other end even if you do use the specific path method you are attempting. There is an exception for message in this regard, but generally it’s not  like using regular packet by specifying the hops and their call signs. Specifying the paths will make it much more likely for it to make it however, mostly due to the fact that all the other generic digi’s will not be rebroadcasting the packets and occupying airtime or causing collisions.

 

The No-Gate or RF only I would not worry about. If a packet gets heard and gated, that is done directly over the internet, so no harm. I-Gates are not repeating your packets back over the air. Not putting the commands in the path will keep the packet shorter and as such give better chances of it getting through without collisions.

 

Your reasons and plan are solid, just understand the limitation. Using specific call signs rather than generic digi path’s is the way to do this for sure. Just don’t expect it to be 100% reliable and it you start using it a lot like a chat channel others will likely notice and possibly say something. The APRS frequency is not well suited as a general packet network system. I see this a lot with the DMR hotspots and such, first someone is gating to RF call signs with non-compliant SSID’s (they use letters) and it seems like each hotspot is kicking out 2 separate objects over the air for the same location. I suspect they are doing both D-Star and DMR and as such their hotspot software sends to different objects to the IS stream. If it was kept on the internet stream that would be great, but someone somewhere in that local area is pushing it to RF and at a beacon rate that is too much for an object that doesn’t move. But that really has nothing to do with your question….

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Hurd
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:10 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Specific Paths for RFOnly.

 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH