messages RF internet fallback


Steve <sbd64000@...>
 

Hi

I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does not here me.

So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it would not be helpful to send to the net.

But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could go out via the net?

Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.

 

Steve G6UIM

 


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Steve,

All packets generated by APRSISCE/32 are sent to the APRS-IS if it is enabled, connected, and has a valid password. As a matter of fact, your outbound message packets should always show on the raw display of aprs.fi as coming from your own callsign with a completely unused path. If they're not, then you probably don't have a validated APRS-IS connection. I just checked http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM and it shows your messages as going straight to the APRS-IS via your connection to T2ENGLAND.

So, the only reason M6XSD-1 would not hear them (or you not hear his/her ack) is that M6XSD-1 isn't connected to the APRS-IS or there isn't a fully-functioning IGate between you and him. Read my dissertation on the miracle of APRS messaging when it works at http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained

The timeout and retransmissions occur when you don't hear an ack back from the remote station. As you read above, this can be due to lots of possible reasons. The latest versions of APRSISCE/32 actually do TWO sets of retries in some cases. If the first set exhausts the retry count, and if you don't cancel the pending message, then whenever a packet is heard from the intended recipient, a whole new cycle (Second) is initiated. When that cycle finally times out, no more retries are done unless you manually Retry the pending message to start all over again.

From what I can see, M6XSD-1 (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1) hasn't done anything since 03-25 11:52:05. It's no wonder that your message attempts from 03-25 18:00 didn't get any acks. Was the station even on the air or -IS?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

Steve wrote:



Hi

I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does not here me.

So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it would not be helpful to send to the net.

But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could go out via the net?

Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.


Steve G6UIM



Steve <sbd64000@...>
 

Hi Lynn

Thanks for the reply, I guess I should read up before asking more stupid questions.

Anyway the important thing is that M6XSD no longer has that call. He passed his intermediate exam and now has a new call. He is on this list so congratulations to him.

The message failed as he told me about the pass using his old callsign, then change his callsign to the new one.

Thanks very much for the prompt and detailed reply.

 

Regards

Steve G6UIM

 


From: aprsisce@... [mailto:aprsisce@...] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
Sent: 25 March 2010 21:47
To: aprsisce@...
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] messages RF internet fallback

 

 

Steve,

All packets generated by APRSISCE/32 are sent to the APRS-IS if it is
enabled, connected, and has a valid password. As a matter of fact, your
outbound message packets should always show on the raw display of
aprs.fi as coming from your own callsign with a completely unused path.
If they're not, then you probably don't have a validated APRS-IS
connection. I just checked http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM and it
shows your messages as going straight to the APRS-IS via your connection
to T2ENGLAND.

So, the only reason M6XSD-1 would not hear them (or you not hear his/her
ack) is that M6XSD-1 isn't connected to the APRS-IS or there isn't a
fully-functioning IGate between you and him. Read my dissertation on
the miracle of APRS messaging when it works at
http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained

The timeout and retransmissions occur when you don't hear an ack back
from the remote station. As you read above, this can be due to lots of
possible reasons. The latest versions of APRSISCE/32 actually do TWO
sets of retries in some cases. If the first set exhausts the retry
count, and if you don't cancel the pending message, then whenever a
packet is heard from the intended recipient, a whole new cycle (Second)
is initiated. When that cycle finally times out, no more retries are
done unless you manually Retry the pending message to start all over again.

From what I can see, M6XSD-1 (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1)
hasn't done anything since 03-25 11:52:05. It's no wonder that your
message attempts from 03-25 18:00 didn't get any acks. Was the station
even on the air or -IS?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

Steve wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes
> due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does
> not here me.
>
> So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible
> to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it
> would not be helpful to send to the net.
>
> But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could
> go out via the net?
>
> Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.
>
>
>
> Steve G6UIM
>
>
>
>


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Steve wrote:

Thanks for the reply, I guess I should read up before asking more stupid questions.
The only stupid question is the one that you've asked before.

Anyway the important thing is that M6XSD no longer has that call. He passed his intermediate exam and now has a new call. He is on this list so congratulations to him.

The message failed as he told me about the pass using his old callsign, then change his callsign to the new one.
Now that you mention it, I did work with him on getting a new password, so yes, congratulations are in order for Colin. He's now licensed to run a Digi and IGate as I understand the system over there?

Thanks very much for the prompt and detailed reply.
As you know, most of my replies are rather detailed and/or verbose. This is so that others can learn from questions that get answered. I know I've learned plenty from just lurking in various groups. Please don't take my answers as pedantic, belittling, or anything negative. I just try to make them complete and concise and (hopefully) understandable for whatever level of experience the reader might (or might not) have.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


Regards

Steve G6UIM


------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
*Sent:* 25 March 2010 21:47
*To:* aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [aprsisce] messages RF internet fallback



Steve,

All packets generated by APRSISCE/32 are sent to the APRS-IS if it is
enabled, connected, and has a valid password. As a matter of fact, your
outbound message packets should always show on the raw display of
aprs.fi as coming from your own callsign with a completely unused path.
If they're not, then you probably don't have a validated APRS-IS
connection. I just checked http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM> and it
shows your messages as going straight to the APRS-IS via your connection
to T2ENGLAND.

So, the only reason M6XSD-1 would not hear them (or you not hear his/her
ack) is that M6XSD-1 isn't connected to the APRS-IS or there isn't a
fully-functioning IGate between you and him. Read my dissertation on
the miracle of APRS messaging when it works at
http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained <http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained>

The timeout and retransmissions occur when you don't hear an ack back
from the remote station. As you read above, this can be due to lots of
possible reasons. The latest versions of APRSISCE/32 actually do TWO
sets of retries in some cases. If the first set exhausts the retry
count, and if you don't cancel the pending message, then whenever a
packet is heard from the intended recipient, a whole new cycle (Second)
is initiated. When that cycle finally times out, no more retries are
done unless you manually Retry the pending message to start all over again.

From what I can see, M6XSD-1 (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1>)
hasn't done anything since 03-25 11:52:05. It's no wonder that your
message attempts from 03-25 18:00 didn't get any acks. Was the station
even on the air or -IS?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

Steve wrote:


Hi

I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes
due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does
not here me.

So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible
to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it
would not be helpful to send to the net.

But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could
go out via the net?

Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.



Steve G6UIM




Steve <sbd64000@...>
 

Lynn

your answers are much appreciated, I often lurk on groups to get answers.

The only problem I have with the long answers is that it has taken you away from the important bit of writing the software.

 

 


From: aprsisce@... [mailto:aprsisce@...] On Behalf Of Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
Sent: 25 March 2010 22:26
Hi

No problem, the long replies are ok, not taken any offence. They are very helpful.

You do now have me in trouble with the police however. The aprs station m1abd that I see on RF is at a police station

they just did a whois on me, so if I am offline for awhile, lol.

Stupid question is it possible to save messages as the go when I reply

 

 

 

To: aprsisce@...
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] messages RF internet fallback

 

 

Steve wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply, I guess I should read up before asking more
> stupid questions.
>

The only stupid question is the one that you've asked before.
>
> Anyway the important thing is that M6XSD no longer has that call. He
> passed his intermediate exam and now has a new call. He is on this
> list so congratulations to him.
>
> The message failed as he told me about the pass using his old
> callsign, then change his callsign to the new one.
>

Now that you mention it, I did work with him on getting a new password,
so yes, congratulations are in order for Colin. He's now licensed to
run a Digi and IGate as I understand the system over there?

> Thanks very much for the prompt and detailed reply.
>

As you know, most of my replies are rather detailed and/or verbose.
This is so that others can learn from questions that get answered. I
know I've learned plenty from just lurking in various groups. Please
don't take my answers as pedantic, belittling, or anything negative. I
just try to make them complete and concise and (hopefully)
understandable for whatever level of experience the reader might (or
might not) have.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

>
>
> Regards
>
> Steve G6UIM
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
> *Sent:* 25 March 2010 21:47
> *To:* aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [aprsisce] messages RF internet fallback
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve,
>
> All packets generated by APRSISCE/32 are sent to the APRS-IS if it is
> enabled, connected, and has a valid password. As a matter of fact, your
> outbound message packets should always show on the raw display of
> aprs.fi as coming from your own callsign with a completely unused path.
> If they're not, then you probably don't have a validated APRS-IS
> connection. I just checked http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM> and it
> shows your messages as going straight to the APRS-IS via your connection
> to T2ENGLAND.
>
> So, the only reason M6XSD-1 would not hear them (or you not hear his/her
> ack) is that M6XSD-1 isn't connected to the APRS-IS or there isn't a
> fully-functioning IGate between you and him. Read my dissertation on
> the miracle of APRS messaging when it works at
> http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained
> <http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained>
>
> The timeout and retransmissions occur when you don't hear an ack back
> from the remote station. As you read above, this can be due to lots of
> possible reasons. The latest versions of APRSISCE/32 actually do TWO
> sets of retries in some cases. If the first set exhausts the retry
> count, and if you don't cancel the pending message, then whenever a
> packet is heard from the intended recipient, a whole new cycle (Second)
> is initiated. When that cycle finally times out, no more retries are
> done unless you manually Retry the pending message to start all over
> again.
>
> >From what I can see, M6XSD-1 (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1
> <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1>)
> hasn't done anything since 03-25 11:52:05. It's no wonder that your
> message attempts from 03-25 18:00 didn't get any acks. Was the station
> even on the air or -IS?
>
> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
>
> Steve wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes
> > due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does
> > not here me.
> >
> > So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible
> > to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it
> > would not be helpful to send to the net.
> >
> > But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could
> > go out via the net?
> >
> > Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve G6UIM
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


Colin Catlin
 

Hi Everyone,

I would just like to say the reports of the demise of M6XSD are exaggerated. I have indeed now got my Intermediate Callsign 2E0XSD but M6XSD is still valid and I will probably still use it from time to time, perhaps for QRP stuff and/or hand portable. As for APRS I may still use M6XSD for some non-RF instances once I get my RF APRS sorted. For now I will probably retain M6XSD-12 for my Smartphone (could be useful for testing purposes).

Thanks to everyone who has sent me Congrats on attaining my Intermediate.

Steve,
you were just unlucky to not get the message through. I had swapped over to 2E0XSD and was about to switch back M6XSD to catch all the replies to messages I sent under that Call. But you tracked me down before I had a chance to switch back.

Lynn,
Is it possible to forward messages to CallA-SSID to CallB-SSID from a different CallA-SSID?, if that makes sense.


73,
Colin
M6XSD.

--- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <sbd64000@...> wrote:

Hi Lynn

Thanks for the reply, I guess I should read up before asking more stupid
questions.

Anyway the important thing is that M6XSD no longer has that call. He passed
his intermediate exam and now has a new call. He is on this list so
congratulations to him.

The message failed as he told me about the pass using his old callsign, then
change his callsign to the new one.

Thanks very much for the prompt and detailed reply.



Regards

Steve G6UIM



_____

From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
Sent: 25 March 2010 21:47
To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] messages RF internet fallback





Steve,

All packets generated by APRSISCE/32 are sent to the APRS-IS if it is
enabled, connected, and has a valid password. As a matter of fact, your
outbound message packets should always show on the raw display of
aprs.fi as coming from your own callsign with a completely unused path.
If they're not, then you probably don't have a validated APRS-IS
connection. I just checked http://aprs. <http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM>
fi/?c=raw&call=G6UIM and it
shows your messages as going straight to the APRS-IS via your connection
to T2ENGLAND.

So, the only reason M6XSD-1 would not hear them (or you not hear his/her
ack) is that M6XSD-1 isn't connected to the APRS-IS or there isn't a
fully-functioning IGate between you and him. Read my dissertation on
the miracle of APRS messaging when it works at
http://aprsisce. <http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained>
wikidot.com/aprs-messaging-explained

The timeout and retransmissions occur when you don't hear an ack back
from the remote station. As you read above, this can be due to lots of
possible reasons. The latest versions of APRSISCE/32 actually do TWO
sets of retries in some cases. If the first set exhausts the retry
count, and if you don't cancel the pending message, then whenever a
packet is heard from the intended recipient, a whole new cycle (Second)
is initiated. When that cycle finally times out, no more retries are
done unless you manually Retry the pending message to start all over again.

From what I can see, M6XSD-1 (http://aprs.
<http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1> fi/?c=raw&call=M6XSD-1)
hasn't done anything since 03-25 11:52:05. It's no wonder that your
message attempts from 03-25 18:00 didn't get any acks. Was the station
even on the air or -IS?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

Steve wrote:


Hi

I live quite away from my nearest always on RF neighbour. Sometimes
due to traffic local to him and weather conditions the station does
not here me.

So if I send a message sometimes it retries out on RF, is it possible
to have an internet fallback? obviously a station I hear directly it
would not be helpful to send to the net.

But if via another station then instead of timing out maybe it could
go out via the net?

Maybe this happens but I am not seeing it.



Steve G6UIM




Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Colin wrote:
Lynn,
Is it possible to forward messages to CallA-SSID to CallB-SSID from a different CallA-SSID?, if that makes sense.
The newest version now meets the spec of allowing any instance to receive and display all messages addressed to your base callsign. This is not automatic, but requires you to check Messages / My Messages. Once that is done, the instance with it checked will receive and display all messages for your callsign (the portion up to the -) regardless of -SSID. It will NOT pop up notifications, but will simply color the message box green and put the from call there. Oh, and only the instance with the matching -SSID will issue an ack per the spec.

I could extend that to allow the configuration of other "promiscuous" base callsigns for which messages would also be received. However, i would not ack them in any case as that could get very messy with redundant acks flying around from multiple instances. I'll add it to my ToDo list, right after the "group" messaging. (I'm planning to have the client always capture and display messages addressed to "APRSIS-CE". and/or "APRSIS-32" just like all Kenwoods display messages addressed to "KW" - see page 73 (83 in reader) of aprs101.pdf. I'll also be adding ALL, QST, and CQ per the spec).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


Colin Catlin
 

Thanks Lynn,

OK, that sounds good. If I keep M6XSD-12 on my phone then I can check if any messages are sent to M6XSD*.
I can then run 2E0XSD everywhere else but keep old instances of M6XSD-SSID's on my Desktop computer so I can send valid acks.
Does that sound OK?


73,
Colin
2E0XSD.

On 26/03/2010 11:55, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
 

Colin wrote:
> Lynn,
> Is it possible to forward messages to CallA-SSID to CallB-SSID from a different CallA-SSID?, if that makes sense.
>

The newest version now meets the spec of allowing any instance to
receive and display all messages addressed to your base callsign. This
is not automatic, but requires you to check Messages / My Messages.
Once that is done, the instance with it checked will receive and display
all messages for your callsign (the portion up to the -) regardless of
-SSID. It will NOT pop up notifications, but will simply color the
message box green and put the from call there. Oh, and only the
instance with the matching -SSID will issue an ack per the spec.

I could extend that to allow the configuration of other "promiscuous"
base callsigns for which messages would also be received. However, i
would not ack them in any case as that could get very messy with
redundant acks flying around from multiple instances. I'll add it to my
ToDo list, right after the "group" messaging. (I'm planning to have the
client always capture and display messages addressed to "APRSIS-CE".
and/or "APRSIS-32" just like all Kenwoods display messages addressed to
"KW" - see page 73 (83 in reader) of aprs101.pdf. I'll also be adding
ALL, QST, and CQ per the spec).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Colin Catlin wrote:

Thanks Lynn,
The MessageGroup ability was just developed. As soon as I test, I'll drop you a note and you can pull a development build unless I decide to go ahead and release it. With that, you can configure any instance to listen for any set of callsign-SSIDs.
OK, that sounds good. If I keep M6XSD-12 on my phone then I can check if any messages are sent to M6XSD*.
I can then run 2E0XSD everywhere else but keep old instances of M6XSD-SSID's on my Desktop computer so I can send valid acks.
Does that sound OK?
On your phone, you'll need to check Messages / My Messages and the M6XSD will work. I wouldn't bother with the old instances, just be prepared to receive multiple messages as the retries are exhausted on the other end. You'll be able to reply from -12 and it will show as coming from -12 so most QSOs will quickly switch to the callsign under which you are currently answering.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



73,
Colin
2E0XSD.

On 26/03/2010 11:55, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:

Colin wrote:
Lynn,
Is it possible to forward messages to CallA-SSID to CallB-SSID from
a different CallA-SSID?, if that makes sense.
The newest version now meets the spec of allowing any instance to
receive and display all messages addressed to your base callsign. This
is not automatic, but requires you to check Messages / My Messages.
Once that is done, the instance with it checked will receive and display
all messages for your callsign (the portion up to the -) regardless of
-SSID. It will NOT pop up notifications, but will simply color the
message box green and put the from call there. Oh, and only the
instance with the matching -SSID will issue an ack per the spec.

I could extend that to allow the configuration of other "promiscuous"
base callsigns for which messages would also be received. However, i
would not ack them in any case as that could get very messy with
redundant acks flying around from multiple instances. I'll add it to my
ToDo list, right after the "group" messaging. (I'm planning to have the
client always capture and display messages addressed to "APRSIS-CE".
and/or "APRSIS-32" just like all Kenwoods display messages addressed to
"KW" - see page 73 (83 in reader) of aprs101.pdf. I'll also be adding
ALL, QST, and CQ per the spec).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



Colin Catlin <m6xsd@...>
 

OK, Lynn. The MessageGroup sounds good.

On 26/03/2010 13:07, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
 

Colin Catlin wrote:
>
> Thanks Lynn,

The MessageGroup ability was just developed. As soon as I test, I'll
drop you a note and you can pull a development build unless I decide to
go ahead and release it. With that, you can configure any instance to
listen for any set of callsign-SSIDs.
> OK, that sounds good. If I keep M6XSD-12 on my phone then I can check
> if any messages are sent to M6XSD*.
> I can then run 2E0XSD everywhere else but keep old instances of
> M6XSD-SSID's on my Desktop computer so I can send valid acks.
> Does that sound OK?

On your phone, you'll need to check Messages / My Messages and the M6XSD
will work. I wouldn't bother with the old instances, just be prepared
to receive multiple messages as the retries are exhausted on the other
end. You'll be able to reply from -12 and it will show as coming from
-12 so most QSOs will quickly switch to the callsign under which you are
currently answering.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

>
>
> 73,
> Colin
> 2E0XSD.
>
> On 26/03/2010 11:55, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
>>
>>
>> Colin wrote:
>> > Lynn,
>> > Is it possible to forward messages to CallA-SSID to CallB-SSID from
>> a different CallA-SSID?, if that makes sense.
>> >
>>
>> The newest version now meets the spec of allowing any instance to
>> receive and display all messages addressed to your base callsign. This
>> is not automatic, but requires you to check Messages / My Messages.
>> Once that is done, the instance with it checked will receive and display
>> all messages for your callsign (the portion up to the -) regardless of
>> -SSID. It will NOT pop up notifications, but will simply color the
>> message box green and put the from call there. Oh, and only the
>> instance with the matching -SSID will issue an ack per the spec.
>>
>> I could extend that to allow the configuration of other "promiscuous"
>> base callsigns for which messages would also be received. However, i
>> would not ack them in any case as that could get very messy with
>> redundant acks flying around from multiple instances. I'll add it to my
>> ToDo list, right after the "group" messaging. (I'm planning to have the
>> client always capture and display messages addressed to "APRSIS-CE".
>> and/or "APRSIS-32" just like all Kenwoods display messages addressed to
>> "KW" - see page 73 (83 in reader) of aprs101.pdf. I'll also be adding
>> ALL, QST, and CQ per the spec).
>>
>> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>>
>
>
>
>