Topics

HF iGate Verification


John Brent - VA7WPN
 

Good afternoon,

Our local club has been working on getting our HF iGate setup. So far we have some success, and were very happy with that, but we want to continue to improve and expand the capability. We have been able to track a number of other HF APRS stations on 10.147.60Mhz @ 300 baud, across Canada and the US. So we KNOW there is activity on the band, and that were not th only ones using it.

We are gating to and from IS. We can see that on our APRS.FI page, so there is a level of success. But, we want to make sure that were setup appropriatly, and being responcible at the same time. We want to provide this support to everyone on 30m, We know there is activity, but we need to spread the word.

Are there any others who are running 30m APRS stations or iGates here? Can we build some mutual support?

Thank you,

John Brent
 VA7WPN


David Musselwhite
 

Check with VE6AB.  He should point you in the right direction.


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:10 PM John Brent - VA7WPN <john.brent@...> wrote:
Good afternoon,

Our local club has been working on getting our HF iGate setup. So far we have some success, and were very happy with that, but we want to continue to improve and expand the capability. We have been able to track a number of other HF APRS stations on 10.147.60Mhz @ 300 baud, across Canada and the US. So we KNOW there is activity on the band, and that were not th only ones using it.

We are gating to and from IS. We can see that on our APRS.FI page, so there is a level of success. But, we want to make sure that were setup appropriatly, and being responcible at the same time. We want to provide this support to everyone on 30m, We know there is activity, but we need to spread the word.

Are there any others who are running 30m APRS stations or iGates here? Can we build some mutual support?

Thank you,

John Brent
 VA7WPN


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

It is considered bad form to gate from the APRS-IS to HF.  Gating IS to 1200 baud VHF is bad enough, but gating to 300 baud HF can really get you into trouble.

There is some support group that discusses such topics, but the actual name escapes me at the moment.  You might want to task on the aprssig mailing list.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 8/17/2020 5:10 PM, John Brent - VA7WPN wrote:
Good afternoon,

Our local club has been working on getting our HF iGate setup. So far we have some success, and were very happy with that, but we want to continue to improve and expand the capability. We have been able to track a number of other HF APRS stations on 10.147.60Mhz @ 300 baud, across Canada and the US. So we KNOW there is activity on the band, and that were not th only ones using it.

We are gating to and from IS. We can see that on our APRS.FI page, so there is a level of success. But, we want to make sure that were setup appropriatly, and being responcible at the same time. We want to provide this support to everyone on 30m, We know there is activity, but we need to spread the word.

Are there any others who are running 30m APRS stations or iGates here? Can we build some mutual support?

Thank you,

John Brent
 VA7WPN


John Brent - VA7WPN
 

Lynn

I understand that its bad form and we ARE looking for alternatives for this, such as JS8Call (But it has NOT way for an APRS message to be replied too), CCW Messenger is dead in the water, and not everyone has $1200 for a PACTOR modem to do Robust Packet from a mobile or backpack. I own a PTC-IIex, and its showing its age. Its started failing, and I have taken the precautions with new caps to fix the issues that I am having, but the techs over at SCS have indicated to me on a few occasions that it may very well be the DSP Chip that is failing, and that there ARE NO replacements, and I am not the only one who is having these issues with these ageing devices.

I have been looking high and low for a few years with the help of a number of members in the club for alternatives, we have had little to no luck. As APRS its self, does exactly what we need it for, its really the only way we can perform the tasks we need to perform without designing a whole new mode and system.

John Brent
 VA7WPN


Justin Cherington
 

“We know it’s bad form but it does something we want (Insert reason here), so we are gonna do it anyway.”

- 50% of APRS users

Lol. 


James Ewen
 

One should probably define what gating from IS-RF consists of before condemning  the activity.

I-gates by definition should be a two way communications gateway. They should take the activity heard on RF and gate it to the APRS-IS network. They also are supposed to gate APRS message packets (note, APRS message packets, not any other packets) heard locally on the APRS-is stream to RF, and also a single courtesy position packet. This allows an APRS station sending APRS message packet to a station beyond local RF range, and to be able to get a response back, along with a single location packet from the destination station.

What some software authors have done is provided a capability to arbitrarily move traffic from the APRS-IS to the RF network based on the gate operator desires. This is where we can end up with problems because the APRS-IS traffic levels far exceed the capacity of the 1200 baud, VHF system, let alone the 300 baud HF system.

An i-gate set up to gate packets from RF to IS, and to support IS-RF messaging shouldn't flood the RF network and cause detrimental degradation of the RF network. The RF users are the ones in control of the requests for packets to be gated back to RF, as well as stations looking to send APRS messages to stations on HF only.

Yes, there are those who will disregard the system health as a whole... obviously the world needs to know the weather conditions in my backyard every 5 minutes, and to ensure they do, I will transmit at 50 watts through a high gain antenna using WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 so that I can ensure that my packets make it onto the APRS-IS network...

If one wants to get after people abusing the APRS network, how about going after all the people using WIDE1-1 as a path element who are operating at 5 watts or higher? They are going to be much more of a detriment to the APRS network than an HF i-gate that will send an APRS message and courtesy position packet to the 300 baud RF network only upon request of a station operating on HF.

Just a caution that one needs to ensure they know what the issue at hand truly is before spending too much time arguing their side.

I would ask John Brent VA7WPN what they intend with their RF-IS gateway.

James
VE6SRV


On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 7:51 AM Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...> wrote:

“We know it’s bad form but it does something we want (Insert reason here), so we are gonna do it anyway.”

- 50% of APRS users

Lol. 


John Brent - VA7WPN
 

Thank you,

Our intent is NOT to "SPAM the air waves" with relentless beacons, arbetrary weather, and "Smart beaconing". We are targeting the areas of Vancouver Island, and the interior of BC where there is NO cellular service, let alone any kind of repeater / igate coverage. We have looked into a LOT of other options, such as satellite communications / APRS, and portable repeaters / crossbanding. The testing we did was only helpful when we were witin 50km of "Scociety" after that, the hills mountains and 150' trees killed all performance. 

Our support is for the hunters, hikers, campers, and other exploring hams. The swaths of remote unserviced areas in BC alone are amazing, and huge. We all want to experiance that, with some kind of safety net / communications capability. We belive this is one of the better options. Its not nefarious.

John Brent
 VA7WPN


Brad Ko6kL
 

I run a 30m receive aprs from time to time, 
park on 40m after 30m go's dead...
7.109.5 L I think....   there is a little 300bps at times...

switching out pc's in the shack right now and it's not up.

regards
brad
ko6kL



 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:10:04 -0700, John Brent - VA7WPN <john.brent@...> wrote:

Good afternoon,

Our local club has been working on getting our HF iGate setup. So far we have some success, and were very happy with that, but we want to continue to improve and expand the capability. We have been able to track a number of other HF APRS stations on 10.147.60Mhz @ 300 baud, across Canada and the US. So we KNOW there is activity on the band, and that were not th only ones using it.

We are gating to and from IS. We can see that on our APRS.FI page, so there is a level of success. But, we want to make sure that were setup appropriatly, and being responcible at the same time. We want to provide this support to everyone on 30m, We know there is activity, but we need to spread the word.

Are there any others who are running 30m APRS stations or iGates here? Can we build some mutual support?

Thank you,

John Brent
 VA7WPN

Hullo John,

Stephen has a very useful page for HF use and it includes some material on gating.

http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/HF_APRS_Notes.htm

Cheers es 73, John

J.D. Erskine
VA7OTC etc
Victoria, BC