Direct RF Messaging


Charles Jessee
 

I've turned off the Beacon on the APRS-IS Port and also set my 710-APRS Port to No Gate ME. I sent a message directly from my radio and saw that appear on the target AB1II-7 when I clicked it's icon on the APRSIS32 map. My sent message was red and remained red.

I see the below on APRS.FI Messaging. It looks like it sent 5 times? I saw no reply on APRSIS32 but see the below on APRS-FI.

Can I send direct RF on APRSIS32 as I am now configured (above)?

Thanks for helping me understand!

Bret/N4SRN

2020-06-27 12:04:25 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:05:26 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:06:26 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:07:27 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:08:27 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:19:46 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:20:51 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:21:55 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:22:59 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:24:05 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

There are lots of things going on here that need more information.  See interspersed below.

On 6/27/2020 1:37 PM, Charles Jessee wrote:
I've turned off the Beacon on the APRS-IS Port and also set my 710-APRS Port to No Gate ME.

That's a good start.  And to be clear, you're using a KWD710(APRS) port to talk to your D710, right?  If so, that introduces yet another layer of confusion.

I sent a message directly from my radio

So, you didn't use APRSIS32, but the front panel of your D710 to send the message.  What is the configured callsign-SSID of the radio and the same question for your APRSIS32 instance?

and saw that appear on the target AB1II-7 when I clicked it's icon on the APRSIS32 map.

I have no idea what "saw that appear...it's icon" means.  Messages don't show up on icons nor any popups that I can recall.  Can you describe what you saw and where/when you saw it?

My sent message was red and remained red.

Where was your sent message red?  I didn't think the D710 had a color display?  Or did you actually send the message from APRSIS32?  And if the latter, what were the checkboxes in the message dialog when you sent the message?


I see the below on APRS.FI Messaging. It looks like it sent 5 times?

APRS.fi's messaging display isn't the best place to look as it doesn't show acks.  It's convenient in that it shows messages both to and from a station, but for what you're trying to debug, you need to see the acks.

Also, APRS.fi is only fed by the APRS-IS and that has very little to do with what your station(s) were copying on RF.  Anything captured on the APRS-IS is at the mercy of IGates and duplicate suppression.  If you want to debug "Direct RF Messaging", then you need to do it with RF logs, not the APRS-IS nor APRS.fi.

Do you have Enables / Logging / File Enabled checked?  This allows all trace log content to be recorded into your APRSIS32*.log files.

Do you have the Port<YourPortName> trace log enabled?  This would capture lots of traffic between APRSIS32 and your radio or TNC.

Do you have Enables / Ports / Log All checked?  This will cause all RF-received packets to be logged to a *.PKT file.  Very useful for analyzing what your station is hearing via RF.

Do you have the Transmit trace log enabled?  This will allow you to see what your station is transmitting and over which ports.

I saw no reply on APRSIS32 but see the below on APRS-FI.

What "reply" are you expecting?  Do you mean the ack?  Or a separate message from the other station?


Can I send direct RF on APRSIS32 as I am now configured (above)?

Again, you said you sent the message "directly from my radio", so I'm confused (again).  The only thing it takes to send on RF Only is selecting the appropriate option in the APRSIS32 messaging dialog.


Thanks for helping me understand!

But wait, there's more!  First, you should use a unique callsign-SSID for every active station.  According to aprs.fi's raw packets (https://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=N4SRN), you are using your base callsign for both APRSIS32 and a CWOP weather station.  One of these should have an -SSID to keep them straight.

You never mentioned if the other station in your test is actually reachable in your local RF environment.  Or are you trying to go RF through a local IGate or digipeater to reach the other station?  And can you copy it direct via RF?  RF paths are not necessarily bi-directional.

Here's your raw packets from aprs.fi that match the messages you posted:

2020-06-27 11:04:25 CDT: N4SRN>APK102,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,KB1GKN-10::AB1II-7  :TES RF RX{5
2020-06-27 11:05:26 CDT: N4SRN>APK102,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::AB1II-7  :TES RF RX{5
2020-06-27 11:06:26 CDT: N4SRN>APK102,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,KB1GKN-10::AB1II-7  :TES RF RX{5
2020-06-27 11:07:27 CDT: N4SRN>APK102,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,KB1GKN-10::AB1II-7  :TES RF RX{5
2020-06-27 11:08:27 CDT: N4SRN>APK102,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::AB1II-7  :TES RF RX{5

Given the >APK102, it does appear that you sent these from the radio itself, but assuming a KWD710(APRS) type port, this could be suspect.  Apparently 3 of these messages got through, or at least 3 acks came back according to AB1II-7's raw packets:

2020-06-27 11:05:36 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,W1MHL*,WIDE2-1,qAR,N1UEC-6::N4SRN    :ack5
2020-06-27 11:06:35 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,W1XM::N4SRN    :ack5
2020-06-27 11:08:36 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::N4SRN    :ack5

So, the question is why the ack's didn't get back to the radio, right?

And now, on the other 'way round.  Here's messages from AB1II-7 to N4SRN:

2020-06-27 11:19:46 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::N4SRN    :R 73  TES RF RX{34
2020-06-27 11:20:51 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,W1MHL*,WIDE2-1,qAR,NS1RA-2::N4SRN    :R 73  TES RF RX{34
2020-06-27 11:21:55 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::N4SRN    :R 73  TES RF RX{34
2020-06-27 11:22:59 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,N3LLO-3::N4SRN    :R 73  TES RF RX{34
2020-06-27 11:24:05 CDT: AB1II-7>APY02D,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,W1XM::N4SRN    :R 73  TES RF RX{34

Apparently, all 5 of these retransmissions got through because acks were logged coming from N4SRN.

2020-06-27 11:19:46 CDT: N4SRN>APWW11,TCPIP*,qAC,T2LONDON::AB1II-7  :ack34
2020-06-27 11:20:51 CDT: N4SRN>APWW11,TCPIP*,qAC,T2LONDON::AB1II-7  :ack34
2020-06-27 11:21:55 CDT: N4SRN>APWW11,TCPIP*,qAC,T2LONDON::AB1II-7  :ack34
2020-06-27 11:22:59 CDT: N4SRN>APWW11,TCPIP*,qAC,T2LONDON::AB1II-7  :ack34
2020-06-27 11:24:05 CDT: N4SRN>APWW11,TCPIP*,qAC,T2LONDON::AB1II-7  :ack34

So, based on the acks, each station apparently DID copy the original messages, but based on the retries, the acks were not copied by the originating station.  In the second exchange, this may or may not be surprising, because the logged packets were sent via the APRS-IS.  But then again, you haven't mentioned turning off Messages on the APRS-IS port, so acks were likely sent out on all ports, RF and the -IS, but the -IS would only show the first copy of said ack.

So, there's the situation with questions for additional clarification.  Hopefully there's some RF logs from one or both sides to help reconstruct what really happened.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 

PS.  Apparently AB1II-7 with a ToCall of APY02D is a Yaesu FT2D radio so there aren't likely logs available from it...


Bret/N4SRN

2020-06-27 12:04:25 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:05:26 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:06:26 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:07:27 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:08:27 EDT: N4SRN>AB1II-7: TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:19:46 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:20:51 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:21:55 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:22:59 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX
2020-06-27 12:24:05 EDT: AB1II-7>N4SRN: R 73 TES RF RX