crossband with 2 meters and 70cm question


KP3FT
 

Hi all,

I found some references to using APRSis32 for crossband, but haven't figured out some of the specifics.  I already have two instances of APRSis32 running, one on a 2m radio, the other on a separate 70cm radio.  They both work fine when testing with other stations miles away.  What I can't figure out, is how can I get 2m to re-transmit a packet that is received on 70cm, and vis-versa, with RF-only?  The 2m is using UZ7HO's Soundmodem with one instance of APRSis32 on a Win10 notebook.  The 70cm is using Direwolf on a Raspberry, ported to a second instance of APRSis32 on the Win10 notebook.  I saw a mention of using the "e/" filter, but not sure how to utilize it.  Thanks for any help, 73


Brian Webster
 

Do you need to run 2 instances? I would think it might be easier to have more than one port on just 1 instance.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of KP3FT via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 8:00 AM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: [APRSISCE] crossband with 2 meters and 70cm question

 

Hi all,

I found some references to using APRSis32 for crossband, but haven't figured out some of the specifics.  I already have two instances of APRSis32 running, one on a 2m radio, the other on a separate 70cm radio.  They both work fine when testing with other stations miles away.  What I can't figure out, is how can I get 2m to re-transmit a packet that is received on 70cm, and vis-versa, with RF-only?  The 2m is using UZ7HO's Soundmodem with one instance of APRSis32 on a Win10 notebook.  The 70cm is using Direwolf on a Raspberry, ported to a second instance of APRSis32 on the Win10 notebook.  I saw a mention of using the "e/" filter, but not sure how to utilize it.  Thanks for any help, 73


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Yes, you need to run 2 instances, one per RF interface.  There is no cross-port repeating available in APRSIS32.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 12/31/2020 11:14 AM, Brian Webster via groups.io wrote:

Do you need to run 2 instances? I would think it might be easier to have more than one port on just 1 instance.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of KP3FT via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 8:00 AM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: [APRSISCE] crossband with 2 meters and 70cm question

 

Hi all,

I found some references to using APRSis32 for crossband, but haven't figured out some of the specifics.  I already have two instances of APRSis32 running, one on a 2m radio, the other on a separate 70cm radio.  They both work fine when testing with other stations miles away.  What I can't figure out, is how can I get 2m to re-transmit a packet that is received on 70cm, and vis-versa, with RF-only?  The 2m is using UZ7HO's Soundmodem with one instance of APRSis32 on a Win10 notebook.  The 70cm is using Direwolf on a Raspberry, ported to a second instance of APRSis32 on the Win10 notebook.  I saw a mention of using the "e/" filter, but not sure how to utilize it.  Thanks for any help, 73


Rob Giuliano
 

This seems to be a common topic with multiple threads going over on the Direwolf group of groups.io.

From my testing on Direwolf through V1.6 (released), I have found no method of proving separate TCP or AGW ports per device in a single direwolf.conf file. 

With the APRSIS32 applications, I haven't found any way of narrowing the application view to a given channel (in this case sound device or channel).  In other words, the application will listen to all packets coming in on the TCP port, and choose how to respond to them.  HOWEVER, APRSIS32 will only TX on the first stream (audio channel) of Direwolf.  This may come as an advantage, but I have no way of knowing how.

So, to answer your question, it appears the best method is to run multiple instances of Direwolf as this allows the separation of TCP ports and ensures the attached application(s) responds to the packets you want it to.


Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Thursday, December 31, 2020, 11:14:21 AM EST, Brian Webster via groups.io <radiowebst@...> wrote:


Do you need to run 2 instances? I would think it might be easier to have more than one port on just 1 instance.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of KP3FT via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 8:00 AM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: [APRSISCE] crossband with 2 meters and 70cm question

 

Hi all,

I found some references to using APRSis32 for crossband, but haven't figured out some of the specifics.  I already have two instances of APRSis32 running, one on a 2m radio, the other on a separate 70cm radio.  They both work fine when testing with other stations miles away.  What I can't figure out, is how can I get 2m to re-transmit a packet that is received on 70cm, and vis-versa, with RF-only?  The 2m is using UZ7HO's Soundmodem with one instance of APRSis32 on a Win10 notebook.  The 70cm is using Direwolf on a Raspberry, ported to a second instance of APRSis32 on the Win10 notebook.  I saw a mention of using the "e/" filter, but not sure how to utilize it.  Thanks for any help, 73


KP3FT
 

Hi Robert,

Do you know how to get each instance to "see" each other?  I can run two instances, and each works fine their respective ports and they digipeat normally.  What I can't figure out is how to get received stations on 70cm port/instance to get digipeated on 2m, and vis-versa.  I saw a reference to using the "e" filter, but no idea how that would used.  Apparently it's possible to use two instances to crossband (others have said they are corssbanding with two instances) but whatever information I find lacks just enough detail to make it work.


Rob Giuliano
 

No have not tried that.  I can't say how others are doing it with 2 instances of Direwolf.  You might post over on their groups.io section and see.

The only thing I know would be an application like APRX.  APRX has a lot of inputs and outputs and links between them, but no mapping.  LDSped is a similar application.  With either of those, you can still interface with APRSIS32 at the same time and have all the functionality of APRSIS32.

I'know you can go with APRX connecting to each of the 2 instances of Direwolf and use that for all DIGI and crossbanding, and run APRSIS32 connected to the internet and aprx.  But you could experiment with different configuration.  It might give you other ideas as well.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Thursday, December 31, 2020, 1:47:08 PM EST, KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:


Hi Robert,

Do you know how to get each instance to "see" each other?  I can run two instances, and each works fine their respective ports and they digipeat normally.  What I can't figure out is how to get received stations on 70cm port/instance to get digipeated on 2m, and vis-versa.  I saw a reference to using the "e" filter, but no idea how that would used.  Apparently it's possible to use two instances to crossband (others have said they are corssbanding with two instances) but whatever information I find lacks just enough detail to make it work.


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

I don't have time to detail this right now (but the following looks pretty detailed0, but the approach with APRSISCE/32 requires 2 instances, one on 2m and one on 70cm.  They both need to be running the development for the following to work.

1)  After setting up each instance with a unique, RF-compatible callsign-SSID, make sure they are operating properly on their respective bands. 

2)  Configure a Local Server port on each instance specifying different ports on each.  This will allow each instance to have access to all of the packets of the other one.

3)  Configure a CWOP port in each RF instance and point it to the OTHER RF instance's local server port via TCP/IP of 127.0.0.1.  You can bring up and enable the Port(<YourCWOPname>) trace log to see what each is receiving from the other.

4)  Once that is done, both of your RF instances should be showing the same set of stations.  At least, I think they will.

5)  And then to accomplish the cross-band gating (I wouldn't call it digipeating because they'll be going out as 3rd party packets), set up a test filter (Control-G) on each RF instance specifying e/<other-SSID> as the filter.  So if you called the 70cm instance XYZZY-7 and the 2m instance XYZZY-2, then XYZZY-7 would use e/XYZZY-2 as the filter and XYZZY-7 would use e/XYZZY-7 as the filter.   Watch the TestFilter windows in each instance and (I hope) you'll see the packets that were received on the other band by the other instance, and ONLY those packets.

6)  Then, to finally begin transmitting, simply press Control-I and confirm your intention to gate the test filter packets to the local RF.

If you set this up and it works, please let me know.  If it doesn't work, please describe your setup in detail and what you're not seeing that you'd expect to see.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 12/31/2020 8:15 PM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io wrote:
No have not tried that.  I can't say how others are doing it with 2 instances of Direwolf.  You might post over on their groups.io section and see.

The only thing I know would be an application like APRX.  APRX has a lot of inputs and outputs and links between them, but no mapping.  LDSped is a similar application.  With either of those, you can still interface with APRSIS32 at the same time and have all the functionality of APRSIS32.

I'know you can go with APRX connecting to each of the 2 instances of Direwolf and use that for all DIGI and crossbanding, and run APRSIS32 connected to the internet and aprx.  But you could experiment with different configuration.  It might give you other ideas as well.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Thursday, December 31, 2020, 1:47:08 PM EST, KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:


Hi Robert,

Do you know how to get each instance to "see" each other?  I can run two instances, and each works fine their respective ports and they digipeat normally.  What I can't figure out is how to get received stations on 70cm port/instance to get digipeated on 2m, and vis-versa.  I saw a reference to using the "e" filter, but no idea how that would used.  Apparently it's possible to use two instances to crossband (others have said they are corssbanding with two instances) but whatever information I find lacks just enough detail to make it work.


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

BTW, a CWOP-type port is really a receive-only APRS-IS port.  No packets will go out that port, but packets will be accepted and displayed from that port.  In the end you should have something like the following, 1st and 4th line is the 70cm instance (XYZZY-7) and 2nd and 3rd line is the 2m instance (XYZZY-2).

70cm RF Port -> XYZZY-7 -> Local Server Port w/q-construct (qAR,XYZZY-7) say 127.0.0.1:4007

CWOP Port (127.0.0.1:4007) -> XYZZY-2 -> e/XYZZY-7 filter -> 2M RF Port

2m RF Port -> XYZZY-2 -> Local Server port w/q-construct (qAR,XYZZY-2) say 127.0.0.1:4002

CWOP Port (127.0.0.1:4002) -> XYZZY-7 -> e/XYZZY-2 filter -> 70cm RF Port

Remember, all of the cross-band transmissions will be going out wrapped in 3rd party packets!

It might be helpful to monitor an Enabled Transmit trace log in each instance as well.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 12/31/2020 9:11 PM, Lynn Deffenbaugh wrote:

I don't have time to detail this right now (but the following looks pretty detailed0, but the approach with APRSISCE/32 requires 2 instances, one on 2m and one on 70cm.  They both need to be running the development for the following to work.

1)  After setting up each instance with a unique, RF-compatible callsign-SSID, make sure they are operating properly on their respective bands. 

2)  Configure a Local Server port on each instance specifying different ports on each.  This will allow each instance to have access to all of the packets of the other one.

3)  Configure a CWOP port in each RF instance and point it to the OTHER RF instance's local server port via TCP/IP of 127.0.0.1.  You can bring up and enable the Port(<YourCWOPname>) trace log to see what each is receiving from the other.

4)  Once that is done, both of your RF instances should be showing the same set of stations.  At least, I think they will.

5)  And then to accomplish the cross-band gating (I wouldn't call it digipeating because they'll be going out as 3rd party packets), set up a test filter (Control-G) on each RF instance specifying e/<other-SSID> as the filter.  So if you called the 70cm instance XYZZY-7 and the 2m instance XYZZY-2, then XYZZY-7 would use e/XYZZY-2 as the filter and XYZZY-7 would use e/XYZZY-7 as the filter.   Watch the TestFilter windows in each instance and (I hope) you'll see the packets that were received on the other band by the other instance, and ONLY those packets.

6)  Then, to finally begin transmitting, simply press Control-I and confirm your intention to gate the test filter packets to the local RF.

If you set this up and it works, please let me know.  If it doesn't work, please describe your setup in detail and what you're not seeing that you'd expect to see.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 12/31/2020 8:15 PM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io wrote:
No have not tried that.  I can't say how others are doing it with 2 instances of Direwolf.  You might post over on their groups.io section and see.

The only thing I know would be an application like APRX.  APRX has a lot of inputs and outputs and links between them, but no mapping.  LDSped is a similar application.  With either of those, you can still interface with APRSIS32 at the same time and have all the functionality of APRSIS32.

I'know you can go with APRX connecting to each of the 2 instances of Direwolf and use that for all DIGI and crossbanding, and run APRSIS32 connected to the internet and aprx.  But you could experiment with different configuration.  It might give you other ideas as well.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Thursday, December 31, 2020, 1:47:08 PM EST, KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:


Hi Robert,

Do you know how to get each instance to "see" each other?  I can run two instances, and each works fine their respective ports and they digipeat normally.  What I can't figure out is how to get received stations on 70cm port/instance to get digipeated on 2m, and vis-versa.  I saw a reference to using the "e" filter, but no idea how that would used.  Apparently it's possible to use two instances to crossband (others have said they are corssbanding with two instances) but whatever information I find lacks just enough detail to make it work.


Fred Hillhouse
 

You are now in the debris room.

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lynn Deffenbaugh

XYZZY




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Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Plugh  (spelling?)

and Plover

But remember to throw the snake at the bird (IIRC).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  For those that have no clue what we're talking about:

https://www.amc.com/shows/halt-and-catch-fire/exclusives/colossal-cave-adventure

On 1/1/2021 1:47 PM, Fred Hillhouse wrote:

You are now in the debris room.

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lynn Deffenbaugh

XYZZY




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Patrick Connor
 

I suggest you run both radios on the Pi and use Direwolf to digipeat from one radio to the other. Connect one instance of APRSISCE to the Pi through the networked AGW interface. Now you have control of both radios with one client.

Patrick (N3TSZ)


On Thursday, December 31, 2020, 08:00:09 AM EST, KP3FT via groups.io <kp3ft@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I found some references to using APRSis32 for crossband, but haven't figured out some of the specifics.  I already have two instances of APRSis32 running, one on a 2m radio, the other on a separate 70cm radio.  They both work fine when testing with other stations miles away.  What I can't figure out, is how can I get 2m to re-transmit a packet that is received on 70cm, and vis-versa, with RF-only?  The 2m is using UZ7HO's Soundmodem with one instance of APRSis32 on a Win10 notebook.  The 70cm is using Direwolf on a Raspberry, ported to a second instance of APRSis32 on the Win10 notebook.  I saw a mention of using the "e/" filter, but not sure how to utilize it.  Thanks for any help, 73


Fred Hillhouse
 

Release bird.

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lynn Deffenbaugh
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2021 2:38 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] crossband with 2 meters and 70cm question

 

Plugh  (spelling?)

and Plover

But remember to throw the snake at the bird (IIRC).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  For those that have no clue what we're talking about:

https://www.amc.com/shows/halt-and-catch-fire/exclusives/colossal-cave-adventure

 

On 1/1/2021 1:47 PM, Fred Hillhouse wrote:

You are now in the debris room.

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lynn Deffenbaugh


XYZZY

 


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KP3FT
 

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the walk-thru. I followed it exactly, and crossband is partially working.  Both radios digipeat each other's received beacons on 70cm and 2m, but each APRSis32 instance map shows only stations on their respective band.  I have "View" on both set to RF-All, since our local is RF-only.  Both instances are the latest 2020/12/30.  Here's a screenshot.  KP3FT-4 is 70cm (there's only two of us on that band for the moment), and KP3FT-2 is 2m.  Another screenshot shows the 2m instance transmitting "double" digipeats (the 70cm instance is also doing the same thing).



Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

The stations received from the other instance will not look like RF to the receiving instance.  You'll need to View / All to see them.

I'm not familiar with UZ7HO's log windows and I'm not sure what you mean by "double" digipeats?

Please view and enable the Transmit trace log in APRSIS32 and/or the Port(<YourPortName>) log to see what APRSIS32 thinks it is doing.

Note that there is NO duplicate suppression in this chain, so if a station's single packet is copied multiple times, maybe direct and/or through different digipeaters, it will likely transmit a copy of EACH of those receptions on the "other" band.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 1/2/2021 5:50 PM, KP3FT via groups.io wrote:
Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the walk-thru. I followed it exactly, and crossband is partially working.  Both radios digipeat each other's received beacons on 70cm and 2m, but each APRSis32 instance map shows only stations on their respective band.  I have "View" on both set to RF-All, since our local is RF-only.  Both instances are the latest 2020/12/30.  Here's a screenshot.  KP3FT-4 is 70cm (there's only two of us on that band for the moment), and KP3FT-2 is 2m.  Another screenshot shows the 2m instance transmitting "double" digipeats (the 70cm instance is also doing the same thing).



Gordon Taylor
 

Hi all,

                This might not be the right thing to say in this group but if your aim is have multiple RF ports and be able to cross band repeat those ports have a look at UI-View.

I am running UI-View with the AGW packet engine and have HF, VHF and UHF TNC’s all connected to the one instance of UI-View and can selectively cross band repeat the ports.  i.e everything on HF goes to the VHF and UHF ports but not the other way.  VHF and UHF repeat each other.

 

 

Regards

 

Gordon VK4VP