1. Topics
  2. How to use Groups and Objects?

How to use Groups and Objects?

Dan Hurd W5DMH
 

So I am struggling with trying to create on demand APRS information for our club. I am trying to use QRU to serve an object. 
The question I have is how does an APRS user use the QRU function? 

I send INFO 2000 to QRU and it returns some objects associated with callsigns. Like this  "de K4JERJ-15 :T2SRV(23) Max 4@2000mi" 

So clearly there are some objects in that 2000 mile range,  how do I get more information for those objects? 
Should I be able to query K4JERJ-15 directly? like "?T2SRV" so that object returns it's comment? 

Thanks in advance!  73 de Dan W5DMH
Adam Mahnke
 

Dan,

Once we can figure out what's going on with the QRU servers not responding correctly then this is the section from the Wiki

Client use
QRU servers display on your map with QRUcallsign and an Info Kiosk symbol.

To query a server to see which if any have objects within range of your station and what groups they hold, send INFO to QRU. Servers with objects in range will respond with a list of supported groups: de CALL-SSID:group(#) group(#)… Max O@Mmi/km where group is the name of the group, # is the number of objects in the group within range of the querying station, O is the maximum number of objects sent in response to a query, and M is the default (soon) range configured for that QRU server.

Appending a distance to the query (in miles or kilometers based on individual QRU server settings) will override each server's default range setting. INFO 20000 for example will get a response from QRU servers worldwide.

Once you have determined which groups are available sending GROUP to QRU where GROUP is the name of the group, should get a server to respond with the objects it has local to you, subject to the maximum amount of objects limit set on the server and also the range from your station. Again appending a distance to the query will override the server's default distance, but will not override the max objects that the server will send.

QRU servers can also be queried directly. For servers with a low amount of objects per group they will respond with a list of objects, servers with a large amount of objects will respond with an error message listing the number of objects per group the server holds.

Servers will attempt to limit the number of objects sent in a combination of max objects and range.

Servers will send item as message objects where ever possible, in an attempt to avoid large amounts of objects showing and also to better pass through remote igates.


Basically, instead of sending "Info" you'd send RP2M to QRU to get all 2 Meter repeaters within a designated range of the server. Unfortunately something seems to be going on with the service as referenced in our other thread


73's

Adam Mahnke
KC2ANT


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 6:19 AM Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
So I am struggling with trying to create on demand APRS information for our club. I am trying to use QRU to serve an object. 
The question I have is how does an APRS user use the QRU function? 

I send INFO 2000 to QRU and it returns some objects associated with callsigns. Like this  "de K4JERJ-15 :T2SRV(23) Max 4@2000mi" 

So clearly there are some objects in that 2000 mile range,  how do I get more information for those objects? 
Should I be able to query K4JERJ-15 directly? like "?T2SRV" so that object returns it's comment? 

Thanks in advance!  73 de Dan W5DMH
Dan Hurd W5DMH
 

So maybe QRU is not the right answer for what I want to do. 

I want members of the club to be able to send  message  to the object, the object would reply with the object comment. 

Is there a way to do that? Can you treat the object like a station and do a status query  like  to W5DMH send ?APRSS and get the status message of the object instead of the station? 

It's just not clear to me. 

Dan 
Adam Mahnke
 

So, the could send "?aprso object name" to the hosting station. Perhaps it's time for the club to put it's call on an instance of APRSIS32. That will cause the host station to transmit the object out. 

Perhaps Bulletins or Ansrvr is a better solution, but I don't know a lot about those functions.


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 08:21 Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
So maybe QRU is not the right answer for what I want to do. 

I want members of the club to be able to send  message  to the object, the object would reply with the object comment. 

Is there a way to do that? Can you treat the object like a station and do a status query  like  to W5DMH send ?APRSS and get the status message of the object instead of the station? 

It's just not clear to me. 

Dan 

Dan Hurd W5DMH
 

I am assuming that Bulletins and ANSRVR groups are "push" functions where a member like me sends a message to the group in hopes that they are on the air to receive the message? 
My idea is to provide information on demand, rather than broadcasting the information. 
With on demand, the members can request the information when they are on the air. 
The club is more like a statewide user group, not an actual Radio Club so we don't have a single callsign and NET's can change frequency and time arbitrarily. So standing up a station is not really an option but if an object can respond to a query with information,  then placing objects on APRS would be the right answer.   
Adam Mahnke
 

the QRU functionality really is the right solution. I'm hoping that Lynn or someone else will be able to chime in on the problems that we've both experienced


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:00 AM Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
I am assuming that Bulletins and ANSRVR groups are "push" functions where a member like me sends a message to the group in hopes that they are on the air to receive the message? 
My idea is to provide information on demand, rather than broadcasting the information. 
With on demand, the members can request the information when they are on the air. 
The club is more like a statewide user group, not an actual Radio Club so we don't have a single callsign and NET's can change frequency and time arbitrarily. So standing up a station is not really an option but if an object can respond to a query with information,  then placing objects on APRS would be the right answer.   
James Ewen
 

QRU is a PULL request, not a PUSH. You send a request, and the QRU server responds.

You state you are looking for ON DEMAND information, rather than broadcasting the information all the time. Yet you are wanting to PUSH information out all the time in the form of an object.

You are kind of in an in between state in your desire. You want to PUSH an object at everyone, and then have those interested PULL more information as desired.

If you are pushing an OBJECT out, you might as well just PUSH all the information in that packet. You can provide all the details in the comments if you follow the format.

A QRU server can have hundreds of "OBJECTS" in its memory. One PUSH of the QRU server identification alerts users to the presence of the server. A PULL request for information then results in the presentation of the desired information if available.

If you have 4 different nets in the county on different frequencies, and each one has an object associated, then you are PUSHing 4 objects to advertise those nets. Information on those same 4 nets could be stored in the QRU server, and only PULLed from the QRU server on DEMAND by the user looking for the information. Multiply that by the total number of items available in the QRU server and you can see how the QRU server is much more frugal in the use of the frequency availability.

James
VE6SRV


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:41 AM Adam Mahnke <kc2ant@...> wrote:
the QRU functionality really is the right solution. I'm hoping that Lynn or someone else will be able to chime in on the problems that we've both experienced

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:00 AM Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
I am assuming that Bulletins and ANSRVR groups are "push" functions where a member like me sends a message to the group in hopes that they are on the air to receive the message? 
My idea is to provide information on demand, rather than broadcasting the information. 
With on demand, the members can request the information when they are on the air. 
The club is more like a statewide user group, not an actual Radio Club so we don't have a single callsign and NET's can change frequency and time arbitrarily. So standing up a station is not really an option but if an object can respond to a query with information,  then placing objects on APRS would be the right answer.   
Adam Mahnke
 

Agreed,

The problem is that QRU isn't working correctly right now. See the other thread for screenshots.


73's
Adam Mahnke
KC2ANT


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 10:26 AM James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
QRU is a PULL request, not a PUSH. You send a request, and the QRU server responds.

You state you are looking for ON DEMAND information, rather than broadcasting the information all the time. Yet you are wanting to PUSH information out all the time in the form of an object.

You are kind of in an in between state in your desire. You want to PUSH an object at everyone, and then have those interested PULL more information as desired.

If you are pushing an OBJECT out, you might as well just PUSH all the information in that packet. You can provide all the details in the comments if you follow the format.

A QRU server can have hundreds of "OBJECTS" in its memory. One PUSH of the QRU server identification alerts users to the presence of the server. A PULL request for information then results in the presentation of the desired information if available.

If you have 4 different nets in the county on different frequencies, and each one has an object associated, then you are PUSHing 4 objects to advertise those nets. Information on those same 4 nets could be stored in the QRU server, and only PULLed from the QRU server on DEMAND by the user looking for the information. Multiply that by the total number of items available in the QRU server and you can see how the QRU server is much more frugal in the use of the frequency availability.

James
VE6SRV


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:41 AM Adam Mahnke <kc2ant@...> wrote:
the QRU functionality really is the right solution. I'm hoping that Lynn or someone else will be able to chime in on the problems that we've both experienced

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:00 AM Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
I am assuming that Bulletins and ANSRVR groups are "push" functions where a member like me sends a message to the group in hopes that they are on the air to receive the message? 
My idea is to provide information on demand, rather than broadcasting the information. 
With on demand, the members can request the information when they are on the air. 
The club is more like a statewide user group, not an actual Radio Club so we don't have a single callsign and NET's can change frequency and time arbitrarily. So standing up a station is not really an option but if an object can respond to a query with information,  then placing objects on APRS would be the right answer.   
James Ewen
 

I figured that should be obvious currently based on the current discussions. 

I could have put a big red stamp across the email saying "When it's working..."

My discussion was about the purpose of a QRU server, not necessarily about the current functional state.

Once the current problem is resolved, I am suggesting that Dan should give the QRU function a try as it might just be the answer to his problem. In the meantime, we can still debate the merits of each design.

James
VE6SRV


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 8:52 AM Adam Mahnke <kc2ant@...> wrote:
Agreed,

The problem is that QRU isn't working correctly right now. See the other thread for screenshots.


73's
Adam Mahnke
KC2ANT

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 10:26 AM James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:
QRU is a PULL request, not a PUSH. You send a request, and the QRU server responds.

You state you are looking for ON DEMAND information, rather than broadcasting the information all the time. Yet you are wanting to PUSH information out all the time in the form of an object.

You are kind of in an in between state in your desire. You want to PUSH an object at everyone, and then have those interested PULL more information as desired.

If you are pushing an OBJECT out, you might as well just PUSH all the information in that packet. You can provide all the details in the comments if you follow the format.

A QRU server can have hundreds of "OBJECTS" in its memory. One PUSH of the QRU server identification alerts users to the presence of the server. A PULL request for information then results in the presentation of the desired information if available.

If you have 4 different nets in the county on different frequencies, and each one has an object associated, then you are PUSHing 4 objects to advertise those nets. Information on those same 4 nets could be stored in the QRU server, and only PULLed from the QRU server on DEMAND by the user looking for the information. Multiply that by the total number of items available in the QRU server and you can see how the QRU server is much more frugal in the use of the frequency availability.

James
VE6SRV


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 7:41 AM Adam Mahnke <kc2ant@...> wrote:
the QRU functionality really is the right solution. I'm hoping that Lynn or someone else will be able to chime in on the problems that we've both experienced

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 9:00 AM Dan Hurd W5DMH <dan@...> wrote:
I am assuming that Bulletins and ANSRVR groups are "push" functions where a member like me sends a message to the group in hopes that they are on the air to receive the message? 
My idea is to provide information on demand, rather than broadcasting the information. 
With on demand, the members can request the information when they are on the air. 
The club is more like a statewide user group, not an actual Radio Club so we don't have a single callsign and NET's can change frequency and time arbitrarily. So standing up a station is not really an option but if an object can respond to a query with information,  then placing objects on APRS would be the right answer.   
Dan Hurd W5DMH
 

James, 
I thought that if I put the object on the map (1 TX) and do not beacon it, then I am not "pushing out all of the time  in the form of an object". 
Our members would know the name of the object and QRU the object and could pull from the object to get the latest information, at least that is how I thought it could work. 
Is the above not possible or not correct usage of a QRU server? 

Dan W5DMH
Rob Giuliano
 

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 12:32 PM, Dan Hurd W5DMH wrote:
Is the above not possible or not correct usage of a QRU server?
The WIKI (http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:qru) describes this quite well under server setup:: Creat Object
   "If you only want the objects to go out as a result of a query make sure the interval is set to 0, otherwise they will be sent on the scheduled interval also."

Rob KB8RCO
James Ewen
 

Like Rob says... set the interval too zero.

When you said "put the object on the map", I was interpreting that to mean that you were sending an APRS object on RF to have it show up on everyone's map.

Putting it on your map as a QRU object with an interval set to zero will do what you want.

Now to figure out why QRU queries are not being responded to...

James
VE6SRV


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 11:36 AM Rob Giuliano via groups.io <kb8rco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 12:32 PM, Dan Hurd W5DMH wrote:
Is the above not possible or not correct usage of a QRU server?
The WIKI (http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:qru) describes this quite well under server setup:: Creat Object
   "If you only want the objects to go out as a result of a query make sure the interval is set to 0, otherwise they will be sent on the scheduled interval also."

Rob KB8RCO

Dan Hurd W5DMH
 

Rob Giuliano
Exactly, I do have the interval set to 0
1 - 13 of 13