One thing to remember about this experiment, APRS packets are a UI unconnected broadcast and you are not guaranteed delivery of the pack to the other end even if you do use the specific path method you are attempting. There is an exception for message in this regard, but generally it’s not  like using regular packet by specifying the hops and their call signs. Specifying the paths will make it much more likely for it to make it however, mostly due to the fact that all the other generic digi’s will not be rebroadcasting the packets and occupying airtime or causing collisions.

 

The No-Gate or RF only I would not worry about. If a packet gets heard and gated, that is done directly over the internet, so no harm. I-Gates are not repeating your packets back over the air. Not putting the commands in the path will keep the packet shorter and as such give better chances of it getting through without collisions.

 

Your reasons and plan are solid, just understand the limitation. Using specific call signs rather than generic digi path’s is the way to do this for sure. Just don’t expect it to be 100% reliable and it you start using it a lot like a chat channel others will likely notice and possibly say something. The APRS frequency is not well suited as a general packet network system. I see this a lot with the DMR hotspots and such, first someone is gating to RF call signs with non-compliant SSID’s (they use letters) and it seems like each hotspot is kicking out 2 separate objects over the air for the same location. I suspect they are doing both D-Star and DMR and as such their hotspot software sends to different objects to the IS stream. If it was kept on the internet stream that would be great, but someone somewhere in that local area is pushing it to RF and at a beacon rate that is too much for an object that doesn’t move. But that really has nothing to do with your question….

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Hurd
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:10 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Specific Paths for RFOnly.

 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH 

Yes Adam it is your area specifically I was referring to, glad you are not the one (thanks for changing the subject line, I was drifting off topic).

 

The offending station is N2YPI-2 and I hear if from RF. It looks like N2YPI is actually injecting the objects from the internet over the air.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Adam Mahnke
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 6:28 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] hotspot objects

 

Trying to not hijack the thread so changing the subject line.

 

My hotspot is only set up for D-Star and it sends two stations to the IS stream. One with a dash B and one with a space B. I have not started playing with any other digital modes yet so that's not the trigger for multiple stations. Not sure why they send two. Maybe someone can enlighten us.

 

To the other point, I've disabled the igate I manage from gating hotspot stations for that reason, sadly someone else in the area is still doing it. 😞

 

Adam

KC2ANT

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 18:19 Brian Webster N2KGC via groups.io <radiowebst=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

One thing to remember about this experiment, APRS packets are a UI unconnected broadcast and you are not guaranteed delivery of the pack to the other end even if you do use the specific path method you are attempting. There is an exception for message in this regard, but generally it’s not  like using regular packet by specifying the hops and their call signs. Specifying the paths will make it much more likely for it to make it however, mostly due to the fact that all the other generic digi’s will not be rebroadcasting the packets and occupying airtime or causing collisions.

 

The No-Gate or RF only I would not worry about. If a packet gets heard and gated, that is done directly over the internet, so no harm. I-Gates are not repeating your packets back over the air. Not putting the commands in the path will keep the packet shorter and as such give better chances of it getting through without collisions.

 

Your reasons and plan are solid, just understand the limitation. Using specific call signs rather than generic digi path’s is the way to do this for sure. Just don’t expect it to be 100% reliable and it you start using it a lot like a chat channel others will likely notice and possibly say something. The APRS frequency is not well suited as a general packet network system. I see this a lot with the DMR hotspots and such, first someone is gating to RF call signs with non-compliant SSID’s (they use letters) and it seems like each hotspot is kicking out 2 separate objects over the air for the same location. I suspect they are doing both D-Star and DMR and as such their hotspot software sends to different objects to the IS stream. If it was kept on the internet stream that would be great, but someone somewhere in that local area is pushing it to RF and at a beacon rate that is too much for an object that doesn’t move. But that really has nothing to do with your question….

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Hurd
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:10 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Specific Paths for RFOnly.

 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH 

Do you mind sharing your IGate filter, or at least the part that drops the hotspots?  I can envision what it might be, but others might be interested as well.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 1/7/2022 6:46 PM, Adam Mahnke wrote:

He is, and I shall refrain from comment further.

I manage W2CXM, and it's set up for IS to RF but I try to limit it to IS only stations for Tompkins County and I filter out hotspot stations (now) because we have several in the area and it was clogging the RF channel when I didn't. I try really hard to be aware of the congestion on the RF side. 

Adam

KC2ANT

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 18:36 Brian Webster N2KGC via groups.io <radiowebst=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes Adam it is your area specifically I was referring to, glad you are not the one (thanks for changing the subject line, I was drifting off topic).

 

The offending station is N2YPI-2 and I hear if from RF. It looks like N2YPI is actually injecting the objects from the internet over the air.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Adam Mahnke
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 6:28 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] hotspot objects

 

Trying to not hijack the thread so changing the subject line.

 

My hotspot is only set up for D-Star and it sends two stations to the IS stream. One with a dash B and one with a space B. I have not started playing with any other digital modes yet so that's not the trigger for multiple stations. Not sure why they send two. Maybe someone can enlighten us.

 

To the other point, I've disabled the igate I manage from gating hotspot stations for that reason, sadly someone else in the area is still doing it. 😞

 

Adam

KC2ANT

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 18:19 Brian Webster N2KGC via groups.io <radiowebst=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

One thing to remember about this experiment, APRS packets are a UI unconnected broadcast and you are not guaranteed delivery of the pack to the other end even if you do use the specific path method you are attempting. There is an exception for message in this regard, but generally it’s not  like using regular packet by specifying the hops and their call signs. Specifying the paths will make it much more likely for it to make it however, mostly due to the fact that all the other generic digi’s will not be rebroadcasting the packets and occupying airtime or causing collisions.

 

The No-Gate or RF only I would not worry about. If a packet gets heard and gated, that is done directly over the internet, so no harm. I-Gates are not repeating your packets back over the air. Not putting the commands in the path will keep the packet shorter and as such give better chances of it getting through without collisions.

 

Your reasons and plan are solid, just understand the limitation. Using specific call signs rather than generic digi path’s is the way to do this for sure. Just don’t expect it to be 100% reliable and it you start using it a lot like a chat channel others will likely notice and possibly say something. The APRS frequency is not well suited as a general packet network system. I see this a lot with the DMR hotspots and such, first someone is gating to RF call signs with non-compliant SSID’s (they use letters) and it seems like each hotspot is kicking out 2 separate objects over the air for the same location. I suspect they are doing both D-Star and DMR and as such their hotspot software sends to different objects to the IS stream. If it was kept on the internet stream that would be great, but someone somewhere in that local area is pushing it to RF and at a beacon rate that is too much for an object that doesn’t move. But that really has nothing to do with your question….

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Hurd
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:10 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Specific Paths for RFOnly.

 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH 

I spoke too soon. N2PYI is injecting 5 different hot spots and now it appears they are creating 3 objects per hotspot.

 

Lynn is it possible to update the software so that it will not pass any non-compliant packets to RF?

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Webster N2KGC via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 5:02 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] hotspot objects

 

Someone must have said something, the problem has cleared itself up on the RF side.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: Brian Webster [mailto:radiowebst@...]
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 6:36 PM
To: 'APRSISCE@groups.io'
Subject: RE: [APRSISCE] hotspot objects

 

Yes Adam it is your area specifically I was referring to, glad you are not the one (thanks for changing the subject line, I was drifting off topic).

 

The offending station is N2YPI-2 and I hear if from RF. It looks like N2YPI is actually injecting the objects from the internet over the air.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Adam Mahnke
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 6:28 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] hotspot objects

 

Trying to not hijack the thread so changing the subject line.

 

My hotspot is only set up for D-Star and it sends two stations to the IS stream. One with a dash B and one with a space B. I have not started playing with any other digital modes yet so that's not the trigger for multiple stations. Not sure why they send two. Maybe someone can enlighten us

 

To the other point, I've disabled the igate I manage from gating hotspot stations for that reason, sadly someone else in the area is still doing it. 😞

 

Adam

KC2ANT

 

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 18:19 Brian Webster N2KGC via groups.io <radiowebst=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

One thing to remember about this experiment, APRS packets are a UI unconnected broadcast and you are not guaranteed delivery of the pack to the other end even if you do use the specific path method you are attempting. There is an exception for message in this regard, but generally it’s not  like using regular packet by specifying the hops and their call signs. Specifying the paths will make it much more likely for it to make it however, mostly due to the fact that all the other generic digi’s will not be rebroadcasting the packets and occupying airtime or causing collisions.

 

The No-Gate or RF only I would not worry about. If a packet gets heard and gated, that is done directly over the internet, so no harm. I-Gates are not repeating your packets back over the air. Not putting the commands in the path will keep the packet shorter and as such give better chances of it getting through without collisions.

 

Your reasons and plan are solid, just understand the limitation. Using specific call signs rather than generic digi path’s is the way to do this for sure. Just don’t expect it to be 100% reliable and it you start using it a lot like a chat channel others will likely notice and possibly say something. The APRS frequency is not well suited as a general packet network system. I see this a lot with the DMR hotspots and such, first someone is gating to RF call signs with non-compliant SSID’s (they use letters) and it seems like each hotspot is kicking out 2 separate objects over the air for the same location. I suspect they are doing both D-Star and DMR and as such their hotspot software sends to different objects to the IS stream. If it was kept on the internet stream that would be great, but someone somewhere in that local area is pushing it to RF and at a beacon rate that is too much for an object that doesn’t move. But that really has nothing to do with your question….

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Hurd
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:10 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Specific Paths for RFOnly.

 

Thanks Lynn,
For the record I am using Xastir at this moment because the path is really easy to change for this testing . 
I can look at the direwolf output which should be completely raw. 

Dan W5DMH