Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.


iulianpt@...
 

Hi. I have to admit I haven't read the APRSIS32 manual page by page; headlines plus few paragraphs here and there. Work and family commitments in the last few years have taken a heavy toll on my free time.



1.) I am not very sure whether I understand the filtering in APRSIS32. I don't think I have a clear mental picture of some of the APRSIS32 functions or structure, something like a flow diagram (logic chart).


  • If I set a filter in "Configure/General/Add Filter" I can see it in APRSIS32.xml as <!--CompanionCall--> <CompanionInterval>0</CompanionInterval> <Filter>-b/M9XYZ</Filter> <CommentInterval>0</CommentInterval>
  •  If I set the same filter with Ctrl G it doesn't seem to be written in any APRSIS32 file (I did a search in every config file in the APRSIS32 folder).
  • Most importantly, the above filter (-b/M9XYZ) has no effect on the station, in other words, the station still gets digipeated by my WIDE1-1 digi (station M9XYZ heard over RF, digipeated over RF).
  • How do I setup multiple filters in "Configure/General/Add Filter" or the xml file? Are they comma etc separated? I have tried to add multiple <Filter>...</Filter> lines in the xml file, but it doesn't seem to work.


2.) RF to IS, IS to RF on an RF port versus the APRSIS port.

  • If I enable RF to IS, IS to RF an AGW RF port for ex and have APRSIS disabled I assume the RF/IS RF/IS traffic won't take place?
  •  What is the purpose of the RF/IS IS/RF check boxes on the APRSIS port? How do they compete with the same checkboxes on a RF port?
  • In other words, if APRS-IS is disabled in the client, RF IS IS RF traffic can still take place? I in a bit of a logical mix-up here.

Much appreciated,
73, Julian, YO3FCA MØIPU
 


Rob Giuliano
 

beyond the map tiles, the only 2 files APRSIS32 uses are the execuatable (APRSIS32.exe) and XML (APRSIS32.XML).  There is a "safe file" backup of the xml (APRSIS32-safe.XML), but in theory, it isn't used (unless something is missed up in the working file).

The G and I filter functionality is still experimental.  Because a bad configuration could have a major impact on the RF channel load, the setting are not saved between starts. 

One reason is to ensure if you close APRSIS32 to quickly to stop an RF flood, it doesn't automatically re-flood when you start it.

Another reason is that there is still some experimentation and discussion on ways to ensure this feature doesn't flood the RF channel.  Right now it is up to the user to ensure their settings are "RF friendly".
 
Lynn's implementation of filters is a bit more capable than the standard, server side filters.  This includes additive filters for more control.  I am not an expert, but specific questions can get great results as many people on the list are much better with them.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



From: "iulianpt@... [aprsisce]" To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: [aprsisce] Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.

 
Hi. I have to admit I haven't read the APRSIS32 manual page by page; headlines plus few paragraphs here and there. Work and family commitments in the last few years have taken a heavy toll on my free time.


1.) I am not very sure whether I understand the filtering in APRSIS32. I don't think I have a clear mental picture of some of the APRSIS32 functions or structure, something like a flow diagram (logic chart).

  • If I set a filter in "Configure/General/Add Filter" I can see it in APRSIS32.xml as -b/M9XYZ 0
  •  If I set the same filter with Ctrl G it doesn't seem to be written in any APRSIS32 file (I did a search in every config file in the APRSIS32 folder).
  • Most importantly, the above filter (-b/M9XYZ) has no effect on the station, in other words, the station still gets digipeated by my WIDE1-1 digi (station M9XYZ heard over RF, digipeated over RF).
  • How do I setup multiple filters in "Configure/General/Add Filter" or the xml file? Are they comma etc separated? I have tried to add multiple ... lines in the xml file, but it doesn't seem to work.


2.) RF to IS, IS to RF on an RF port versus the APRSIS port.

  • If I enable RF to IS, IS to RF an AGW RF port for ex and have APRSIS disabled I assume the RF/IS RF/IS traffic won't take place?
  •  What is the purpose of the RF/IS IS/RF check boxes on the APRSIS port? How do they compete with the same checkboxes on a RF port?
  • In other words, if APRS-IS is disabled in the client, RF IS IS RF traffic can still take place? I in a bit of a logical mix-up here.

Much appreciated,
73, Julian, YO3FCA MØIPU
 



Michael Wright
 

From: "Rob Giuliano
I am not an expert, but specific questions can get great results as many people
your answers and other posts very educational and thanks for taking time to post.

In other APRSISCE news, last week was our Parachute Mobile Mission 31 and APRSISCE is a major component to track jumpers and log data.

couple weeks before that I setup a APRS demo at a city park along with other San Jose RACES members. There was a group near Lake Tahoe that responded to a QST message post, we messaged back and forth just like chat rooms on the internet but this was not the internet. See attached.

Mike K6MFW


Julian
 

Filters.
I had a bit of a 'revelation' this morning. I came across a couple of similar unanswered questions somewhere else on the net. I believe the filters only apply to the RF IS / IS RF traffic and they do not interfere at all with the RF digipeater function in the APRSIS32 program. In other words, if I used APRSIS32 as a WIDEn-N RF digipeater and wanted to block a certain TOCALL, for example, the filter -u/TOCALL won't have any effect on the digipeated packet. That TOCALL won't go though the RF IS though in my APRSIS32. I am yet to do some experiments on this.

RF IS IS RF vs APRS-IS disabled/enabled.
I also need to experiment with the RF IS tick boxes on the RF port and APRS-IS port (enabled and disabled). See the outcome.

XML
Truly, I haven't seen many xml files in the programs folder! There is one more in my case. It has a date extension added to it. Probably another backup.

"Lynn's implementation of filters"
I have seen something in the manual, pg 38.

Any comments and suggestions on the above from pax who have already mastered APRSIS32, more than welcome.

73, J, YO3FCA M0IPU


Rob Giuliano
 

XML
The XML with a date extension is from the last upgrade.  You should also have an EXE file with a date extension (the same date extensions).    This is for the case where something doesn't work, you can quickly go back to the previous working version by deleting the newer, and removing the date extension.

Filters
I believe you are correct, you cannot filter RF received.  Anything received on RF is handled (DIGI, etc.).  However, you can use the to ignore or limit hops by changing the response to WIDEn-N requests as shown on the wiki: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating

I think the general philosophy is that if it came in on RF it is safe to send on RF.  On the other hand, what you get from the internet, you need to ensure it meets amateur radio regulations.

Are you trying to filter RF data as in prevent your station from DIGI'ing a request just because of a callsign?
  Most TOCALLs are ALTNETs or just an indication of the APRS app in use.  Why would you block certain ones from being DIGI'ed?

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO





From: "iulianp@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.

 
Filters.
I had a bit of a 'revelation' this morning. I came across a couple of similar unanswered questions somewhere else on the net. I believe the filters only apply to the RF IS / IS RF traffic and they do not interfere at all with the RF digipeater function in the APRSIS32 program. In other words, if I used APRSIS32 as a WIDEn-N RF digipeater and wanted to block a certain TOCALL, for example, the filter -u/TOCALL won't have any effect on the digipeated packet. That TOCALL won't go though the RF IS though in my APRSIS32. I am yet to do some experiments on this.

RF IS IS RF vs APRS-IS disabled/enabled.
I also need to experiment with the RF IS tick boxes on the RF port and APRS-IS port (enabled and disabled). See the outcome.

XML
Truly, I haven't seen many xml files in the programs folder! There is one more in my case. It has a date extension added to it. Probably another backup.

"Lynn's implementation of filters"
I have seen something in the manual, pg 38.

Any comments and suggestions on the above from pax who have already mastered APRSIS32, more than welcome.

73, J, YO3FCA M0IPU




Julian
 

Hi Robert,

XML
Tnx for clarifying that.

FILTERS
I'll look into that wikidot docket. Most importantly, it's good we kind of clarified the filters principle in APRSIS32. I have seen few questions on the net regarding this matter.
The -u/TOCALL was only an example. What I was aiming at was the -b/CALL (as per my 1st message in the thread). I run a WIDE1-1 digi and had these stations getting my rig finals red by beaconing every minute via WIDE1-1, WIDEn-N. Only few occasions. Now, don't get me wrong, I would not go out there, cancelling stations out on my digi. I always choose the amiable way, communication via email, APRS message. Communication is actuality compulsory in these situations, because of the mad traffic such behaviour can incur. It's just, sometimes, it takes a bit longer to get a response from the beaconing station. Beaconing every minute also drives many other wider digis nuts.

IS/RF RF/IS tickboxes on the APRSIS port only.
Thought this through a bit. These are probably only there by default (probably reuse of the same window in programming, on every port), but do not actually have any effect on the traffic on the APRSIS port itself. APRSIS is either disabled or enabled. If no RF port present, then, of course, no RF IS IS RF traffic will take place on the APRSIS port anyway. If RF port is present, APRSIS enabled and the IS RF RF IS boxes ticked on the RF port, then yes, traffic to/from Internet would take place. I am still not sure whether I am in a bit of a  logical error here.
Was there someone saying that IS RF traffic doesn't take place anyway, whether or not that box is enabled,  as a security measure to avoid RF flooding, and it has to be enabled somewhere else, or in a developer version of APRSIS32? Can't remember exactly.


Julian, M0IPU YO3FCA.



---In aprsisce@..., <kb8rco@...> wrote :

XML
The XML with a date extension is from the last upgrade.  You should also have an EXE file with a date extension (the same date extensions).    This is for the case where something doesn't work, you can quickly go back to the previous working version by deleting the newer, and removing the date extension.

Filters
I believe you are correct, you cannot filter RF received.  Anything received on RF is handled (DIGI, etc.).  However, you can use the <DigiXform> to ignore or limit hops by changing the response to WIDEn-N requests as shown on the wiki: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating

I think the general philosophy is that if it came in on RF it is safe to send on RF.  On the other hand, what you get from the internet, you need to ensure it meets amateur radio regulations.

Are you trying to filter RF data as in prevent your station from DIGI'ing a request just because of a callsign?
  Most TOCALLs are ALTNETs or just an indication of the APRS app in use.  Why would you block certain ones from being DIGI'ed?

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO





From: "iulianp@... [aprsisce]" <aprsisce@...>
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.

 
Filters.
I had a bit of a 'revelation' this morning. I came across a couple of similar unanswered questions somewhere else on the net. I believe the filters only apply to the RF IS / IS RF traffic and they do not interfere at all with the RF digipeater function in the APRSIS32 program. In other words, if I used APRSIS32 as a WIDEn-N RF digipeater and wanted to block a certain TOCALL, for example, the filter -u/TOCALL won't have any effect on the digipeated packet. That TOCALL won't go though the RF IS though in my APRSIS32. I am yet to do some experiments on this.

RF IS IS RF vs APRS-IS disabled/enabled.
I also need to experiment with the RF IS tick boxes on the RF port and APRS-IS port (enabled and disabled). See the outcome.

XML
Truly, I haven't seen many xml files in the programs folder! There is one more in my case. It has a date extension added to it. Probably another backup.

"Lynn's implementation of filters"
I have seen something in the manual, pg 38.

Any comments and suggestions on the above from pax who have already mastered APRSIS32, more than welcome.

73, J, YO3FCA M0IPU




Rob Giuliano
 

Lynn will likely jump in and clarify as the definitive authority!

My understanding is that APRSIS32 will act as an IGate if connected to RF and APRS-IS with valid passcode.
The RF-IS and IS-RF are checked by default to allow this.  The NoGate ME is unchecked so that your positions are sent to the APRS-IS.
You can also check Bulletin/Obj, Message and Telemetry boxes.

The system will send RF packets heard to APRS-IS and if a station is recently heard through you IGate (APRSIS32), it will send information back to an RF station through it - according to the settings above.  The G I is a mechanism to allow "other APRS traffic" onto local RF, but intended to provide limits on what gets sent over RF to ensure you don't overload the local RF. 

So:
  Standard - Checkboxes do control is sent where, but existing rules dictate what goes from IS to RF.
  G I - allows additional IS-RF traffic rules to allow "more" IS to RF

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



From: "iulianp@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.

 
Hi Robert,

XML
Tnx for clarifying that.

FILTERS
I'll look into that wikidot docket. Most importantly, it's good we kind of clarified the filters principle in APRSIS32. I have seen few questions on the net regarding this matter.
The -u/TOCALL was only an example. What I was aiming at was the -b/CALL (as per my 1st message in the thread). I run a WIDE1-1 digi and had these stations getting my rig finals red by beaconing every minute via WIDE1-1, WIDEn-N. Only few occasions. Now, don't get me wrong, I would not go out there, cancelling stations out on my digi. I always choose the amiable way, communication via email, APRS message. Communication is actuality compulsory in these situations, because of the mad traffic such behaviour can incur. It's just, sometimes, it takes a bit longer to get a response from the beaconing station. Beaconing every minute also drives many other wider digis nuts.

IS/RF RF/IS tickboxes on the APRSIS port only.
Thought this through a bit. These are probably only there by default (probably reuse of the same window in programming, on every port), but do not actually have any effect on the traffic on the APRSIS port itself. APRSIS is either disabled or enabled. If no RF port present, then, of course, no RF IS IS RF traffic will take place on the APRSIS port anyway. If RF port is present, APRSIS enabled and the IS RF RF IS boxes ticked on the RF port, then yes, traffic to/from Internet would take place. I am still not sure whether I am in a bit of a  logical error here.
Was there someone saying that IS RF traffic doesn't take place anyway, whether or not that box is enabled,  as a security measure to avoid RF flooding, and it has to be enabled somewhere else, or in a developer version of APRSIS32? Can't remember exactly.


Julian, M0IPU YO3FCA.



---In aprsisce@..., wrote :

XML
The XML with a date extension is from the last upgrade.  You should also have an EXE file with a date extension (the same date extensions).    This is for the case where something doesn't work, you can quickly go back to the previous working version by deleting the newer, and removing the date extension.

Filters
I believe you are correct, you cannot filter RF received.  Anything received on RF is handled (DIGI, etc.).  However, you can use the to ignore or limit hops by changing the response to WIDEn-N requests as shown on the wiki: http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/doc:digipeating

I think the general philosophy is that if it came in on RF it is safe to send on RF.  On the other hand, what you get from the internet, you need to ensure it meets amateur radio regulations.

Are you trying to filter RF data as in prevent your station from DIGI'ing a request just because of a callsign?
  Most TOCALLs are ALTNETs or just an indication of the APRS app in use.  Why would you block certain ones from being DIGI'ed?

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO





From: "iulianp@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2018 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Filters. IS/RF RF/IS on various ports.

 
Filters.
I had a bit of a 'revelation' this morning. I came across a couple of similar unanswered questions somewhere else on the net. I believe the filters only apply to the RF IS / IS RF traffic and they do not interfere at all with the RF digipeater function in the APRSIS32 program. In other words, if I used APRSIS32 as a WIDEn-N RF digipeater and wanted to block a certain TOCALL, for example, the filter -u/TOCALL won't have any effect on the digipeated packet. That TOCALL won't go though the RF IS though in my APRSIS32. I am yet to do some experiments on this.

RF IS IS RF vs APRS-IS disabled/enabled.
I also need to experiment with the RF IS tick boxes on the RF port and APRS-IS port (enabled and disabled). See the outcome.

XML
Truly, I haven't seen many xml files in the programs folder! There is one more in my case. It has a date extension added to it. Probably another backup.

"Lynn's implementation of filters"
I have seen something in the manual, pg 38.

Any comments and suggestions on the above from pax who have already mastered APRSIS32, more than welcome.

73, J, YO3FCA M0IPU






Julian
 

Roger Roger. I have started to read the manual, pen paper, highlighter..., good old studying, the best method, actually; there is some very useful info there. Also the Wiki pages.

Not many APRSIS YouTube tutorials unfortunately; very few, four or five, to get you on the right track with the basics. Nothing too advanced. Strange, there are pax out there running complex systems, probably multiple instance APRSIS systems and various other programs, multiple modes and HF VHF ports, yet no info seeps out in a video tutorial. Another example, there is virtually not a single video tutorial on BPQ(32) on YouTube.

The IS RF RF IS tickboxes on the APRSIS port (that port in particular and only that) are still nagging me.... He he. I'm gonna get to the bottom of the problem soon.

73, J, MØIPU YO3FCA


Julian
 

Coming back to IS to RF tickbox on the APRSIS port, tickbox which seemed to be redundant. It looks like I have the answer on the satellites section of the APRSIS32 manual, pg 138.

"Keeping RF to IS checked (both here - RF port - and in the APRS-IS port) will send any RF-received
packets to APRS-IS".

J, M0IPU YO3FCA