No Tx with APRSIS & FT7800
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eckerpw@...
In the past I have been using APRSIS on my win 7 64 bit PC, an Argent T2 and an FT7800. This lash up ran fine for about two years or so. Then recently had a PC Hard Drive crash and I am having to start all over re-installing and configuring programs; and I can’t get APRSIS to transmit. I did the setup so long ago, I honestly don’t remember how I got it all to work. So I need some help from anyone that has a somewhat similar setup. - Again PC is win 7 64 bit, 2.4 ghz processor, 4 gb ram and solid state hard drive. - T2 is connected to the FT7800 via a DIN plug; TNC is connected to PC via a serial cable - PC seems to be communicating with FT7800 via OTwincfg software. - I configured a new port for the ft7800. I am getting APRSIS-OK and FT7800 OK in the window just above the scroller. - Program is displaying stations received via Rf and the green rx light on the T2 is flashing. - I did review the two G4ILO videos on re-installing the program and getting it to communicate with your radio. I have looked thru the Wiki for applicable sections to help me, went thru the steps in “Why won’t APRSIS /32 Transmist” in the wiki. All is fine there. - Did a search through the archives and nothing jumped out at me to help. I enabled logging on the FT7800 port but am not bright enough to interpret it, there are a bunch of entries starting with KISS: not long enough and MISSING 0
So would like to hook up with someone who has a similar setup and we could compare notes on configuration.
Thanks & 73 Paul Kc2nyu
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James Ewen
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:37 PM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
- Did a search through the archives and nothing jumped out at me to help.If you searched the mailing list archives for the terms you see in the log, you'd find applicable advice. Put the T2 in KISS mode and it will most likely work. Since you didn't provide enough information about the error in the log, I am guessing that is what the error is. It should look something like this: From log: Port(OT3m):2013-06-17T10:26:12.739 KISS:Missing Leading C0[94]:<00 00 98 E6 18 1E>``<1E 1E E6 06 06>x<00 18 06 E6 00 1E 00 F8 FE F8 E6 18>x<E0 98 E0 18 06 86 E0 86 E6 18>x<E0 98 E0>`<06 E6 E0 E6 00 00 00 E6>f<86 98 E0 9E 06 18 E6 9E E6 86 00 86>``<18>ff<98 06 06>x<1E 06 98 9E 18 98>f<E0 98 F8 98 9E 98 E6 86 06 98>f`<E6 80 00> ----------------------- -- James VE6SRV
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eckerpw@...
James - the T2 is in KISS mode; here is the error log: WinMain:2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Starting Port(FT7800) Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 CpReader Running on COM4:9600,N,8,1 (1 OpenCmds, 1 CloseCmds) Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Opening COM4:9600,N,8,1 Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Opening COM4 with 4 Args Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.896 Opened COM4:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 1 OpenCmds Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.739 Status -1 Error 1 At 491 in c:\compass\code\aprs\aprsisce\cprtns.c Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Status -1 Error 0 At 529 in c:\compass\code\aprs\aprsisce\cprtns.c Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Error Reading Port, CpReadBytesWithTimeout FAILED! Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Error Reading Port, PortReadCommPort FAILED! Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Terminating after 152703 msec vs 0 Quiet Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Closing COM4:9600,N,8,1 Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.782 Restarting Reader... Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.782 CpReader Running on COM4:9600,N,8,1 (1 OpenCmds, 1 CloseCmds) Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.782 Opening COM4:9600,N,8,1 Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.782 Opening COM4 with 4 Args Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.783 Opened COM4:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 1 OpenCmds I can provide whatever else might be helpful 73 Paul
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James Ewen
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:11 PM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
James - the T2 is in KISS mode; here is the error log: WinMain:2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Starting Port(FT7800) I can provide whatever else might be helpfulWhere are the lines that have "a bunch of entries starting with KISS: not long enough and MISSING 0" The above error is looking like you have something attached to com4 already. APRSISCE/32 is not able to open the com port because it is already opened by another program. Lynn will know exactly what the errors thrown mean, but it sure looks like something else already has the com port. Close whatever else you have running attached to the com port and try again. -- James VE6SRV
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Lynn Deffenbaugh
On 1/28/2014 9:19 PM, James Ewen wrote:
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:11 PM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:Based on that error log, it appears that there is nothing coming in the port. Have you seen the T2 actually talk to the PC on COM4 at 9600 baud? And see data coming in?Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Opening COM4:9600,N,8,1 Where are the lines that have "a bunch of entries starting with KISS:Having something else connected will prevent the port from opening. This port opens, sits there, and then errros out 152 seconds (2.5 minutes) later. There doesn't seem to be any data coming in. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
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Rob Giuliano
I see 2 things that could be clues:
1. Opening Com Port with 1 aOpenCmds?
If the TNC is already in KISS mode, is this an empty command?
I'm guessing yes, but verifying.
2. Repeated opening statements -> no communication as Lynn said "is another app using the port?"
I am coming into the middle, so may be missing some, but I'd start more basic:
a) Does COM4: exist?
Is this a Linux/WINE implementation that is missing symbolic link and REG file update?
Did Windows change port numbers?
b) Settings correct? Baud, etc.
I think my T3 default was 19200.
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO ---------------------------------------------
From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
To: aprsisce@... Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [aprsisce] No Tx with APRSIS & FT7800 On 1/28/2014 9:19 PM, James Ewen wrote: > On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:11 PM, wrote: > >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Opening COM4:9600,N,8,1 >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.895 Opening COM4 with 4 Args >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T20:51:33.896 Opened COM4:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in >> TransmitQueue, Sending 1 OpenCmds >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.739 Status -1 Error 1 At 491 in >> c:\compass\code\aprs\aprsisce\cprtns.c >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Status -1 Error 0 At 529 in >> c:\compass\code\aprs\aprsisce\cprtns.c >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Error Reading Port, >> CpReadBytesWithTimeout FAILED! >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Error Reading Port, PortReadCommPort >> FAILED! >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Terminating after 152703 msec vs 0 >> Quiet >> Port(FT7800):2014-01-28T21:55:14.740 Closing COM4:9600,N,8,1 Based on that error log, it appears that there is nothing coming in the port. Have you seen the T2 actually talk to the PC on COM4 at 9600 baud? And see data coming in? > Where are the lines that have "a bunch of entries starting with KISS: > not long enough and MISSING 0" > > The above error is looking like you have something attached to com4 > already. APRSISCE/32 is not able to open the com port because it is > already opened by another program. Having something else connected will prevent the port from opening. This port opens, sits there, and then errros out 152 seconds (2.5 minutes) later. There doesn't seem to be any data coming in. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
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eckerpw@...
Well the initial problem seems to be solved, I believe the issue was the Baud rate setting being mismatched between T2 setup and APRSIS. So now if I press transmit in software, the FT7800 goes to Tx and in the log I get: 2014-01-29T15:42:10.922 Logging Enabled 2014-01-29T15:42:18.235 Transmit(IS+RF) KC2NYU-1>APWW10,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:@154218h3156.97N/08101.94W#PHG6130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-01-29T15:42:18.235 Transmit(INT) KC2NYU-1>APWW10,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:@154218h3156.97N/08101.94W#PHG6130APRS-IS for Win32 I am hearing the packet sound on the FT7800 and on an external HT( kc2nyu-7). Stations I am hearing are showing up on APRSFI but no one seems to be hearing me ( kc2nyu-1) .I am in APRSFI via TCPIP but no by RF. KW4B located 5 miles from me across flat marshland is not receiving me. So have I missed something in APRSIS setup in regards to Tx'ing properly? 73 Paul kc2nyu
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James Ewen
Your station is probably operating properly. The problem is your lack of understanding of how the APRS-IS works. As has been explained over and over again, the APRS-IS is a heavily filtered system. Only the first copy of any packet delivered to the APRS-IS is kept. All other subsequent copies are dropped.
Because your station is on the APRS-IS and RF networks, you'll only ever see the packets delivered directly to the APRS-IS since they will be delivered faster than any packet over RF at 1200 baud. Shut off your APRS-IS connection and send a packet. If you get heard by an i-gate (maybe via a digipeater), you'll see that packet and who handled it. You will only see the first copy delivered to the APRS-IS. You won't be able to see every station that heard you, only those that handled the first copy delivered to the APRS-IS. If you want to see what's happening on RF, listen to the RF channel. Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network From: <eckerpw@...>
Sender: aprsisce@...
Date: 29 Jan 2014 08:26:30 -0800 To: <aprsisce@...> ReplyTo: aprsisce@...
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] No Tx with APRSIS & FT7800 Well the initial problem seems to be solved, I believe the issue was the Baud rate setting being mismatched between T2 setup and APRSIS. So now if I press transmit in software, the FT7800 goes to Tx and in the log I get: 2014-01-29T15:42:10.922 Logging Enabled 2014-01-29T15:42:18.235 Transmit(IS+RF) KC2NYU-1>APWW10,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:@154218h3156.97N/08101.94W#PHG6130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-01-29T15:42:18.235 Transmit(INT) KC2NYU-1>APWW10,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:@154218h3156.97N/08101.94W#PHG6130APRS-IS for Win32 I am hearing the packet sound on the FT7800 and on an external HT( kc2nyu-7). Stations I am hearing are showing up on APRSFI but no one seems to be hearing me ( kc2nyu-1) .I am in APRSFI via TCPIP but no by RF. KW4B located 5 miles from me across flat marshland is not receiving me. So have I missed something in APRSIS setup in regards to Tx'ing properly? 73 Paul kc2nyu
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eckerpw@...
You are quite correct on my knowledge of APRS being lacking, nevertheless - I still have a problem and need the group's help. I have as you suggested turned off APRS-IS- the Program is still causing the FT7800 to transmit yet the station 5 miles (kw4b) away is not hearing me. Nor is the the local aprs repeater about 20 miles away hearing me. Just looking for some suggestions on other items to check to troubleshoot the problem. The equipment setup I have has worked fine in the past. 73 Paul kc2nyu
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Fred Hillhouse
A station not hearing could be because of your radio being misadjusted (output level - deviation). Not enough or too much can be a problem. If you do a test signal, how does your signal hear on a second radio?
Best regards, Fred N7FMH
From:
aprsisce@... [mailto:aprsisce@...] On Behalf Of eckerpw@...
You are quite correct on my knowledge of APRS being lacking, nevertheless - I still have a problem and need the group's help. I have as you suggested turned off APRS-IS- the Program is still causing the FT7800 to transmit yet the station 5 miles (kw4b) away is not hearing me. Nor is the the local aprs repeater about 20 miles away hearing me.
Just looking for some suggestions on other items to check to troubleshoot the problem. The equipment setup I have has worked fine in the past.
73 Paul kc2nyu
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Rob Giuliano
Personally, I do a FANTASTIC job of emptying my e-mail "trash" regularly.
Also, I practice deleting early portions of the chain, in order to save space.
Because your e-mail has deleted the earlier messages and because there were possibly other requests for help on hardware, I (nor many others, I'm sure) cannot determine the "whole" setup you are working with.
Radio: FT-7800 (in msg)
TNC: Argent T2 (?? or something else)
Conection to radio: Data-Jack (??)
PTT: Wired (Assumed) or VOX?
How do you know the station 5 miles away did not hear you?
a) ?APRSL -> responded but didn't list your call?
If no response, it could mean the station won't respond to that message.
b) you didn't hear a digipeat of your message? has it digi capable (have you hear other stations digi'ed thought it?
c) you asked the operator while sitting there testing?
Are you decoding other signals (including the station 5 miles away)?
Can you decode your own signal?
A second receiver (scanner or radio) into a sound card or another TNC on the same or other computer, but with a terminal program (different COM port of course).
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO ---------------------------------------------
From: "eckerpw@..."
To: aprsisce@... Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [aprsisce] No Tx with APRSIS & FT7800 You are quite correct on my knowledge of APRS being lacking, nevertheless - I still have a problem and need the group's help. I have as you suggested turned off APRS-IS- the Program is still causing the FT7800 to transmit yet the station 5 miles (kw4b) away is not hearing me. Nor is the the local aprs repeater about 20 miles away hearing me.
Just looking for some suggestions on other items to check to troubleshoot the problem. The equipment setup I have has worked fine in the past.
73 Paul
kc2nyu
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James Ewen
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 8:30 AM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
You are quite correct on my knowledge of APRS being lacking,My comment was "The problem is your lack of understanding of how the APRS-IS works.". This is different than saying your knowledge of APRS is lacking. Your interpretation was that I was suggesting that you have a fundamental lack of knowledge of APRS, whereas my comment was simply to suggest that you didn't understand the operation of the APRS-IS. Many people mistakenly think that they should be able to see everything out there on APRS via the APRS-IS stream. This is not the case. I was not attempting to deride you in any way with my previous or future statements, just working towards attempting to help you understand what you are seeing. nevertheless - I still have a problem and need the group's help.And we'll endeavor to help you figure out what's going on. I have as you suggested turned off APRS-IS- the Program is still causingOkay, let's drop back a level... how are you able to determine that KW4B is not hearing your transmissions? Are you in contact with an operator sitting at that station who is monitoring the audio being received at KW4B, and that person is confirming that there is no audio present when your APRS station is transmitting? That would be the ONLY way to confirm that KW4B is NOT receiving your signal. APRS does not employ the use of repeaters. The digital store and forward devices that resend APRS packets are called digipeaters. Would you be referring to KW4B-1? Again, a similar question as to how you are able to determine that KW4B-1 is not hearing your signals. Corollary to that statement, you CAN determine if a station operating as a digipeater has heard, decoded, and acted upon your packet by listening for a digipeat of your packet on the RF channel. If you hear that digipeat, then you know quite a number of things about the operation of your station, because quite a number of things have to go right to get digipeated. Your initial information provided about the current "problem" was as such: I am hearing the packet sound on the FT7800 and on an externalWith this information, it sounded like you were attempting to confirm reception of signals from your station by other stations using aprs.fi as your verification tool. If that indeed was the case, then the information provided about attempting to use aprs.fi or any other service connected to the APRS-IS stream is still valid. Just looking for some suggestions on other items to check toThe answer here is simply make sure you have your station set up exactly the same as in the past... however, that's probably the whole issue... you can't determine what is different this time. :) As others are suggesting, is your station set up properly? Is your deviation correct? Are you getting a signal out? What's your output power, what's your VSWR? The source of your problems as you stated was a PC hard drive crash. A crashed hard drive won't affect TX power, deviation, antenna match, or other issues such as these, hence the assumption that your RF station should still be operational. The issue would probably be limited to configuration of the program, and understanding the information you are seeing. KW4B purports to being a digipeater (icon chosen, but then you are reporting as being a digipeater too), but the station is using a WIDE1-1 path which suggests that the KW4B digipeater is poorly located such that it requires assistance from a nearby home fill-in station to be able to get to the nearest main digipeater. Looking at the raw data however, it looks like KW4B can get out to local digipeaters easily. The same can be said for KW4B-1. I would suggest you too drop the WIDE1-1 from your outgoing path. Only low powered station NEEDING a boost from a home fill-in digipeater should ever run WIDE1-1 as a path element. What does appear to be a problem in your area is possibly the lack of an i-gate listening to 144.390 that can hear local activity consistently. Either that or you have very intermittent APRS digipeaters in your area. KW4B hasn't been heard on the APRS-IS stream for nearly 24 hours. http://aprs.fi/info/graphs/a/KW4B KW4B-1 has been even longer since it was heard. http://aprs.fi/info/graphs/a/KW4B-1 The last KW4B-1 was heard being gated was by a station just north of the Florida border, >70 miles to the south. If there are no i-gates in the local area to gate packets to the APRS-IS stream, then you will not be able to see any packets heard on RF via the APRS-IS stream on sites such as aprs.fi. So, you have said you can hear packets on RF, and you can see them on aprs.fi. When your station was on the air and operational, you were acting as an i-gate for stations in the local area. http://aprs.fi/#!v=gated&call=a%2FKC2NYU-1&timerange=3600&tail=3600 Try putting your station on the air and leaving it running for a few days. Let's have a look and see if we can hear more activity in your area. I have a feeling we'll see a bunch of packets gated through your station. It's kind of like that old query "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?" You're in a similar situation. "If Paul's APRS station sends out a packet and no one gates it to the APRS-IS, did it really send a packet?" My answer to both is "Yes". Whether or not the signal was detected does not negate the fact that the initial signal was sent. -- James VE6SRV
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eckerpw@...
James- I need to go out of town for a few days before I can get back to this problem. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to put this extended explanation together. I will digest it and then get to work as soon as I get back to the shack and then let you know the results. 73 and TU Paul kc2nyu
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eckerpw@...
James- I think I have addressed most of your questions below in the larger font:
----------------------------------------- APRS does not employ the
use of repeaters. The digital store and
------------------------------------- Corollary to that
statement, you CAN determine if a station operating ------------------------------- As others are
suggesting, is your station set up properly? Is your --- Power out – 40w, swr 1.3 seems fine, not sure how to check deviation or adjust on the FT7800 -----------------------------------------
--- KC2NYU-1 is now digipeating and iGating according to my logs (have screen shots I could sent to your email address). So a really basic question to assure my understanding of paths is correct. If kw4b and I were to change from Wide 1-1, what should we change to?? In the APRSIS32/T2 combination where is that modified?? I think that progress has been made on the initial problems, but we are open to suggestions on how to improve the overall situation here in Savannah. 73 and thank you again for your help. Paul kc2nyu
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James Ewen
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:09 PM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
Okay, so is a live person is seeing your data decoded at KW4B?Okay, let's drop back a level... how are you able to determine that--- Did that test today and KW4B is hearing my transmit and data is being received Got it... it's always best to use the proper terminology so thatAPRS does not employ the use of repeaters.-- I should have said the local digipeater (kw4b-1) which is everyone is clear on what is being discussed. While not very common, there is a means to have APRS data picked off of voice repeaters using MIC-E bursts after voice transmissions. If we are talking digipeaters, then we are talking about dedicated store and forward digital rebroadcast stations. Okay, so I guess that means that you did have a live person sitting atCorollary to that statement, you CAN determine if a station operating-- I am not hearing the digipeat (I say that based on I hear my Tx burst- but don't KW4B above. Where does one look in APRSFI do see data to evaluate how wellOkay, back to the original message about attempting to use aprs.fi (or any other feed from the APRS-IS) for observation and analysis of APRS network operations: ************************ The APRS-IS is a heavily filtered system. Only the first copy of any packet delivered to the APRS-IS is kept. All other subsequent copies are dropped. Many people mistakenly think that they should be able to see everything out there on APRS via the APRS-IS stream. This is not the case. If you look at the pages at aprs.fi that show you the coverage area of a digipeater: http://aprs.fi/#!v=heard&call=a%2FKW4B-1&timerange=3600&tail=3600 All you are able to see are packets that had KW4B-1 acting as a digipeater AND were gated to the internet first. There can literally be hundreds of thousands of more packets that were handled by the digipeater, but were DROPPED by the i-gates because an earlier copy of the packet was heard that did NOT contain KW4B-1 handling the packet. Observing the APRSIS32 screen and looking at the rf paths of stations on the scroller, itOkay, so on your screen you are seeing packets being handled by KW4B? Are you familiar with the various bits of information available in the scroller? http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/scroller There's also the ability to show the last digi/i-gate to handle the packet as well. http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/menu:configure-scroller When you enable show digi/i-gate, you'll get 2 columns in the scroller. The left column shows the digi/i-gate, and the right hand column shows the packet's station callsign. So, if you see: KW4B* KC2NYU-1 in the scroller, this tells you that you just heard KW4B digipeat a packet that originated from your station. As others are suggesting, is your station set up properly? Is yourYour deviation is configured in the T2... TX Audio Level under the Radio Interface section of the OTWINCFG program. You want the audio level set below maximum deviation. To do this by ear, turn the level up until it stops getting louder (listen on another radio to the transmissions). Turn the level down until it starts to drop, and then turn it down some more. Over deviation kills packet. Under deviation can be tolerated, so having it too quiet is better than too loud. 40 watts is probably a nasty power level to be running. Just how far do you need to be heard? I guess you are on the coast, so maybe you are trying to hail ships at sea 40 or 50 miles off the coast. Remember that you are sharing the local RF frequency with everyone else for about 100 miles in all directions. You only need enough power to get out to the local digipeater(s). Those digipeaters repeat your signal extending your area of influence to include their local coverage area. I like to use the analogy of having a bunch of people crowded into a room. Everyone is talking occasionally, and some people are trying to communicate back and forth. If everyone talks in a quiet voice, lots of information can be shared around the room. If one person starts yelling, that will interfere with a lot of other communication. Now if you designate a few people as relay stations (WIDEn-N digipeaters) and have them scattered throughout the room, you could send a message across the room to a buddy by asking a couple people to relay your message. This is how APRS works. Put a guy in there yelling, and you'll probably find that the relay stations are going to have a hard time hearing your message. So, if you have a very loud station that blasts a signal out over a very large area, you're going to potentially be blocking other users. You should use enough power to get into the local RF network, and no more. The WIDEn-N digipeaters (should) be installed such that they have a very good overview of the local area, and can hear neighboring digipeaters. Once a packet gets into the digipeaters, there should be less chance of collisions because of the siting of the digipeaters. They should be able to hand off packets to the neighboring digipeaters without too many collisions. However, if there are enough local users that can't really hear those far off digipeaters and they are making lots of noise, the chances of collisions increases. In the APRS world, less is more. Less power means more chance of other stations being able to share the resources. Less digipeater hops means more chance of other stations being able to share the resources. (Sounds like I'm making a case against you, huh? This same rule applies to everyone, so it's not just against you) --- KC2NYU-1 is now digipeating and iGating according to my logs (have screen shotsHere's a question for you... is KW4B acting as a digipeater? If so, does your station hear a significantly different area that KW4B? If not, then you have just significantly decreased the reliability of the APRS network in your area, and significantly reduced the capacity of the APRS network in your area. Think of that room full of people. Now when someone nearby asks for a relay out of the area, both you and KW4B try to repeat the message. Anyone listening now has to try and either listen to both of you talk at the same time or listen to both of you repeat the same message one after the other. Digipeaters need to be set up ONLY in areas where there is no existing digipeater coverage for a very significant portion of the coverage area. You really need to understand how APRS as a network works, and listen for a long time to determine just how the local network operates. From this thread, it is very apparent that you aren't at that level yet. We're still trying to find out if your station is working properly. As a kindness to your local network, please shut off digipeating until we get you further along the road to understanding APRS. Leave the i-gate on though... you won't harm the local RF network by doing so, and from what little we have seen so far, it looks like your area is in desperate need of an i-gate. So a really basic question to assure my understanding of paths is correct.WIDE1-1 is supported by the main digipeaters, as well as by home fill-in digipeaters. Anyone asking for WIDE1-1 as a hop request will be asking ANY home fill-in digipeater in earshot to digipeat. Only low powered stations that can't get to the main digipeaters should be asking for help from a home fill-in digipeater. Mobile stations with 5 watts and a decent antenna shouldn't need help. Fixed stations shouldn't need help. Digipeater MOST DEFINITELY should NOT need help from a home station to get heard by another digipeater. The standard digipeater hop request length is WIDE2-2. This gives regular users 2 hops via the digipeaters... usually a fairly significant coverage area in a developed APRS network. This lets you get heard for quite a distance, yet doesn't clog the network for hundreds of miles in all directions. Part of that less is more concept. Since a digipeater is located at an advantageous location, giving it excellent local range, it shouldn't need a lot of help to get out a long distance. Also, because it is a digipeater, it already has a 1 hop advantage over any local user. If you send a packet via 2 hops, it might arrive at the limit of coverage as KC2NYU-1 via KW4B,KW4B-1 (Pseudo APRS markup). That means it got digipeated by KW4B, and then by KW4B-1. If KW4B sends a packet, to be a considerate station and not making noise over a large area, it should use one less hop. KW4B via KW4B-1. Only one hop from the digipeater still gets the packet out as far as 2 hops from the locals. To get one hop without activating home fill-in digipeaters, you use the path WIDE2-1. In the APRSIS32/T2 combination where is that modified??Are you using the T2 in KISS, and letting APRSISCE/32 run the show, or is the T2 acting as a digipeater and sending it's own packets as well? I think that progress has been made on the initial problems, but we are openThe first step is to put your station on the air 24/7 running as an i-gate. With that in place, we can get a view into what is happening in Savannah. Without any way of seeing what's happening, it is difficult to make any information decisions. Just like you looking at aprs.fi, I can't see much of what is going on in your area. We need to see what's happening. If you look at the graphs for KW4B, you can see that we are starting to gather some information about the digipeater operation. That coincides with the operation of your i-gate. Let's get some data collected! -- James VE6SRV
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James Ewen
Paul,
I hate to be alarmist, but I think someone stole your house! Over the past few days it's been meandering around a golf course, then it started drifting south quite a bit. Now it looks like it has taken off down the interstate! Other than that bit of excitement, it looks pretty quiet in your neck of the woods. Here's what your station has heard over the past few hours. 2014-02-01T22:42:48.391 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3200.71N/08058.26W# 2014-02-01T22:48:15.934 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:>012248zAPRSISCE/32 2014-02-01T22:52:27.131 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@225225h3156.25N/08101.48W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-01T23:02:50.605 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:>Serving Wilmington Island & Tybee Island Georiga 2014-02-01T23:02:50.816 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3200.71N/08058.26W# 2014-02-02T01:39:44.897 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@013943h3157.23N/08120.02W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-02T01:39:54.592 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@013953h3157.23N/08120.02W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-02T01:41:20.924 KD4MOJ-11>APN391,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3049.30NS08358.21W#PHG8480/W2,GA2 Thomasville,GA Digi 2014-02-02T01:48:55.293 K4IHD-3>S2TU9P,KW4B-1*,WIDE1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:'m^(l #/]Hampton Co.S.C. Digi 2014-02-02T01:51:20.554 KD4MOJ-11>APN391,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3049.30NS08358.21W#PHG8480/W2,GA2 Thomasville,GA Digi 2014-02-02T01:53:10.832 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:>Serving Wilmington Island & Tybee Island Georiga 2014-02-02T01:53:11.244 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3200.71N/08058.26W# 2014-02-02T02:07:43.510 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:>020207zAPRSISCE/32 2014-02-02T02:09:54.649 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@020953h3157.23N/08120.02W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-02T03:29:43.763 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@032943h3157.23N/08120.02W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-02T03:29:51.935 K4IHD-3>S2TU9P,KW4B-1*,WIDE1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:'m^(l #/]Hampton Co.S.C. Digi 2014-02-02T03:29:52.994 KC2NYU-1>APWW10,KW4B*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:@032951h3157.23N/08120.02W#PHG/130APRS-IS for Win32 2014-02-02T03:30:43.961 AE4S>APU25N,KI4JOO-7*,WIDE1*,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:<IGATE,MSG_CNT=0,LOC_CNT=41 2014-02-02T03:31:21.292 KD4MOJ-11>APN391,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3049.30NS08358.21W#PHG8480/W2,GA2 Thomasville,GA Digi 2014-02-02T03:33:34.204 KW4B>APOT21,WIDE1-1,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!3200.71N/08058.26W# 2014-02-02T03:34:13.139 K4RTZ-1>APTT4,K4DBN*,KW4B-1*,WIDE1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:Rentz GA DiGi Antenna 3db 350MSL 2014-02-02T03:37:24.695 K4FI-3>S4QQ2U,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:`m4= #/ PHG6660/W2 DGI LITTLE MTN, SC 2014-02-02T03:38:28.115 WB4NFG-1>APTT4,KW4B-1*,WIDE1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:>/Local Voice 147.240+ PL 77.0 2014-02-02T03:38:52.679 K4GKJ-15>APU25N,KD4MOJ-7*,WIDE1*,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:=3011.49N/08418.65W_Shadeville-Personal Weather Station {UIV32} 2014-02-02T03:38:57.305 K4IHD-3>S2TU9P,KW4B-1*,WIDE1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:'m^(l #/]Hampton Co.S.C. Digi 2014-02-02T03:39:11.497 W4IZ-1>APN382,KW4B-1*,KW4B*,WIDE2*,qAR,KC2NYU-1:!2954.33NS08124.86W#PHG6460_W3,FLN NOFARS/KF4MX ST AUG, FL It's pretty quiet down there, but your station is hearing stuff coming in, and we can see evidence that you are being heard by KW4B as well. If you take this list of packets that you heard, and go searching for them on aprs.fi, you'll find many of them don't show up. You'll find the same packet, but handled by a different i-gate, and possibly different digipeaters as well. Proof that the APRS-IS is NOT a tool to be used for studying packet propagation. Lets look at the last packet from W4IZ-1. You heard it via KW4B, who heard it from KW4B-1. We can see that you gated the packet to the APRS-IS at 3:39:11.497. If we look at the same packet as seen in aprs.fi's history, we see this: 2014-02-01 20:39:07 MST: W4IZ-1>APN382,WIDE2-2,qAR,KK4AXL:!2954.33NS08124.86W#PHG6460_W3,FLN NOFARS/KF4MX ST AUG, FL Note that KK4AXL heard the packet direct from W4IZ-1, and gated the packet 4 seconds before you got a chance to hear it. That's reasonable since W4IZ-1 is 250 km south of you, and it took 2 digipeater hops to get to you. BTW, don't follow W4IZ's example... this digipeater sends 3 position reports out at 2 minute intervals at 3, 5 and 7 minutes after the hour, and then repeating every 10 minutes. Thankfully these packets only go out locally. At 39 minutes after the hour, it sends a packet via 2 hops (how you heard it). There's also a repeater object sent every 10 minutes as well. The cluster of 3 position reports in succession is a little excessive. One would be just fine. -- James VE6SRV
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eckerpw@...
James-- see responses after the dashes: Okay, so is a live person is seeing your data decoded at KW4B? --- yes kw4b himself was there Are you familiar with the various bits of information available in the scroller? --- hadn’t look at in a while but yes There's also the ability to show
the last digi/i-gate to handle the --- didn’t have that enabled – do now, thanks Your deviation is configured in the
T2... TX Audio Level under the --I was at MAX, have it adjusted now – thanks 40 watts is probably a nasty power
level to be running. Just how far --- Understand, not trying to hail ships at sea. Cut power in half to start, see how I do and maybe go lower As a kindness to your local
network, please shut off digipeating until --- to turn off digi at my station, do I remove the entire line of <DigiXform>WIDE1-1=WIDE1*</DigiXform> from the xml file or starting with WIDE 1 ?? The standard digipeater hop request length is WIDE2-2 --- So I should change to WIDE 2-2? > In the APRSIS32/T2 combination
where is that modified?? --- I have the T2 in KISS, APRSISCE running the show- haven’t figured out how to change Path in APRSISCE ?? The first step is to put your
station on the air 24/7 running as an --- That raises an entirely new issue I have been experiencing. I have the T2 connected to PC via Com4, a serial card in PC with serial cable, no converters. What I am seeing is the Com4 connection seems to stop working after a few hours and APRSISCE will no longer transmit. IF I shut down this program and attempt to open I get a msg from OTWINCFG that says “can’t open serial port” I have to reboot the PC to get the connection to work again.. So appears to be an issue between the serial port and the T2 software?? Any ideas?? I hate to be alarmist, but I think
someone stole your house! Over the
--- Strictly operator error on my part, have that squared away. 73 and thank you Paul kc2nyu
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James Ewen
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
You can get a lot of information from the scroller. You can get evenThere's also the ability to show the last digi/i-gate to handle the--- didn't have that enabled - do now, thanks more from the raw data. Learning to understand what you are seeing in the raw data is key in understanding how your local network is operating. That should help you out immensely. Over deviated audio is not good...Your deviation is configured in the T2... TX Audio Level under the--I was at MAX, have it adjusted now - thanks If you're just playing regular APRS station, just enough power to get40 watts is probably a nasty power level to be running.--- Understand, not trying to hail ships at sea. Cut power in half to start, heard by the local digis is good. --- to turn off digi at my station, do I remove the entire lineAnything in the <DigiXform> section, including the tags in the brackets. The standard digipeater hop request length is WIDE2-2From what I can see in your area so far, and the amount of traffic, you should be fine with WIDE2-2. In areas with a lot of users, WIDE2-1 may be a better choice. The key is remembering that you want to tailor your station operation such that it allows others a chance to be heard as well. In very busy areas, reducing the number of hops used increases the number of users that can be supported. Also remember that your local area of influence on the APRS network isn't just the area that can hear your station directly, but also the coverage areas of EVERY digipeater that you ask for a hop from. If you are asking for 2 hops, you are sharing the frequency with every station that is within 2 hops in ALL directions from your station. CONFIGURE | BEACON | PATHIn the APRSIS32/T2 combination where is that modified?? Sounds like the serial port is locking up. Any software attempting toThe first step is to put your station on the air 24/7 running as an--- That raises an entirely new issue I have been experiencing. I have access the serial port will squawk, not just OTWINCFG. No magic answer for that. You'll have to research the card and see if you can find a fix. Oh good! I'd hate to see you homeless! :) Let me guess, dragging theI hate to be alarmist, but I think someone stole your house! Over the--- Strictly operator error on my part, have that squared away. map around to have a look, and that was moving the house? -- James VE6SRV
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eckerpw@...
James--- my responses after the dashes:
---- I have changed to WIDE2-2. I need to educate kw4b and get him to change also.
--- I think I have the com port issue solved by changing to a different serial port. Never did find what else was trying to access that port. So the program I believe has been running over 24 hrs.
--- So I think I have implemented all your suggestions but am certainly ready for any more that you may have; if you have time to observe the APRS happenings in and around Savannah. I hope others in the Group have learned from this thread as much as I have.
73 Paul
Kc2nyu
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James Ewen
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 9:25 AM, <eckerpw@...> wrote:
Yes, you can find the raw APRS data in log files in APRSISCE/32. TheYou can get a lot of information from the scroller. You can get even--- do you mean learning to understand the raw data in the APRSISCE log files that I find the most informative are the ones containing the data that I am interested in viewing. In your case, I have created a test filter using CTRL-G, and then entered e/KC2NYU-1. That pulls anything being gated to the internet by your station into a log file. I don't have to filter through all kinds of data, I just get the information that is of interest to me. I try to look through the files and focus on only the aspects of relevance to the discussion at hand, but it is so hard when you see station after station after station with misconfigured, incorrect, or totally screwed up settings. I think I'd go nuts living in an APRS network other than my local network. A few of us have built the local digipeater network. The placement of every digipeater is planned out, and sited such that it provides optimal coverage. All configurations are in spec with the APRS network settings, and we spend a lot of time helping newbies get their stations set up properly so that there's no garbage packets floating around the network. We get the occasional wonky station popping up, and wanna-be do-gooders putting digipeaters on the air where they are not needed. We work to educate and show why the network might be degraded by such activity. Because of the planning and care used to implement our network, we can easily move messages and packets across large distances reliably. I have successfully sent a message over 600 km across the province on RF ONLY while driving down the highway. It took 5 digipeater hops to travel to the recipient, but it made it, and I got an ACK just like clockwork. Our SSn-N alternate alias system worked as it should have. We need to do more testing to make sure everything is working as it should, but we're pretty confident that we have a digital network that could easily support emergency communications should the need arise. We just need more locations for digipeaters to help fill in some holes, and expand the network. You're offline again...The first step is to put your station on the air 24/7 running as an--- I think I have the com port issue solved by changing to a different serial -- James VE6SRV
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