FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?


Robert Bruninga
 

Greg said:

My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.
Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR


Greg Depew
 

ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it. I also set it up in my qru and received the rest of my 2m obj which all qsy'ed just fine.


To: aprsisce@...
From: bruninga@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:05:56 -0400
Subject: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Greg said:

> My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
> in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
> on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
> It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
> All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
> with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.

Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR



Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

On 5/8/2012 4:18 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT qsy to it. I also set it up in my qru and received the rest of my 2m obj which all qsy'ed just fine.

What callsign transmitted these so we can actually eyeball the raw packets? And I'm assuming "the rest of my 2m obj" had the frequency at the beginning of the comment for the FTM-350 to work?

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS. Note to all: Please sign your messages or at least include a callsign-SSID when referring to a particular station or object.




To: aprsisce@...
From: bruninga@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:05:56 -0400
Subject: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

Greg said:

> My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
> in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
> on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
> It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
> All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
> with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.

Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR




Greg Depew
 

Callsign: KB3KBR-1 with qru server, and yes the rest had the receive  freq ex: 145.230-w (obj name) "145.230MHz T186 -060  W3ZIC L/145.19 & 147.12 Net 2030Hr Mon" , quotes mine,  is qsy'ed correctly.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 16:22:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 4:18 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it. I also set it up in my qru and received the rest of my 2m obj which all qsy'ed just fine.

What callsign transmitted these so we can actually eyeball the raw packets?  And I'm assuming "the rest of my 2m obj" had the frequency at the beginning of the comment for the FTM-350 to work?

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  Note to all: Please sign your messages or at least include a callsign-SSID when referring to a particular station or object.




To: aprsisce@...
From: bruninga@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 11:05:56 -0400
Subject: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Greg said:

> My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
> in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
> on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
> It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
> All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
> with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.

Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR





Robert Bruninga
 

Lynn said:

ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name
and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it.
That is because 145.530rx is not IAW the spec. The first 10 byte frequency
MUST HAVE "MHz".

Only a second listed alternative repeater INPUT frequency in the "2nd 10
bytes" can be without the MHz.

Bob, WB4APR
---------------------------------------
Greg said:

My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.
Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR


Greg Depew
 

ok new problem aprs32 won't let me name an obj 144.630MHz it stops at the H.


To: aprsisce@...
From: bruninga@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 16:41:13 -0400
Subject: RE: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Lynn said:

> ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name
> and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it.

That is because 145.530rx is not IAW the spec. The first 10 byte frequency
MUST HAVE "MHz".

Only a second listed alternative repeater INPUT frequency in the "2nd 10
bytes" can be without the MHz.

Bob, WB4APR
---------------------------------------
Greg said:

> My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
> in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
> on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
> It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
> All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
> with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.

Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR



Fred Hillhouse
 

Maximum of 9 characters are allowed for the name.
 
The name should be 144.630xy. Fill in the xy with something. If it is the only repeater with an object in your state, maybe you can use your state abbreviations. For instance, this in one in New Hampster, 147.330NH. There are others as well. I listed them in a very recent email.
 
Best regards,
Fred, N7FMH
 
 

From: aprsisce@... [mailto:aprsisce@...] On Behalf Of Greg Depew
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 16:51
To: aprsisce@...
Subject: RE: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 

ok new problem aprs32 won't let me name an obj 144.630MHz it stops at the H.


To: aprsisce@...
From: bruninga@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 16:41:13 -0400
Subject: RE: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Lynn said:

> ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name
> and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it.

That is because 145.530rx is not IAW the spec. The first 10 byte frequency
MUST HAVE "MHz".

Only a second listed alternative repeater INPUT frequency in the "2nd 10
bytes" can be without the MHz.

Bob, WB4APR
---------------------------------------
Greg said:

> My ftm 350 does not decode the qsy that has no rx freq
> in the comment. Example:443.650PA near Pittsburgh shows
> on my list but will not qsy with just the T131 RM50.
> It ignores the object name and parses from the comment.
> All of my objects that i transmit with aprs32 are compliant
> with the 350 and are all qsy-able but I dont know about the kenwoods.

Is this confirmed? This is a problem.. And why we need to build a BUG
table for all these issues.

I too have noticed that the 350 does not seem to QSY on some objects that
appear to me (in the mobile anyway) to be correctly formatted. I just
checked, and I cannot see any problems with the formatting of the 443.650PA
object.

Can the Yaesu firmware can be upgraded in the field?

Bob, Wb4aPR



James Ewen
 

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Bob Bruninga <bruninga@usna.edu> wrote:

ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name
and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it.
That is because 145.530rx is not IAW the spec.  The first 10 byte frequency
MUST HAVE "MHz".

Only a second listed alternative repeater INPUT frequency in the "2nd 10
bytes" can be without the MHz.
That's incorrect information Bob...

A FREQUENCY OBJECT with the frequency in the object name does not
allow for a frequency in the comment.

;FFF.FFFxy*111111zDDMM.hhN/DDDMM.hhWrT079 R25m NETxxxxxx MTGxxxx...

The sections you are quoting above are from the POSITION COMMENT specification.

As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT

1st 10 bytes
FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz

2nd 10 bytes
_FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset
_FFF.FFF + Alternate Frequency and standard shift


Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

--
James
VE6SRV


Greg Depew
 

so that means make an obj 144.630PA  145.230Mhzrx T123 ?? KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: ve6srv@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 15:00:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?


 
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Bob Bruninga <bruninga@...> wrote:

>> ok, just made a spec approved obj of 144.630 in the name
>> and 145.230rx T123 and my 350 will NOT  qsy to it.
>
> That is because 145.530rx is not IAW the spec.  The first 10 byte frequency
> MUST HAVE "MHz".
>
> Only a second listed alternative repeater INPUT frequency in the "2nd 10
> bytes" can be without the MHz.

That's incorrect information Bob...

A FREQUENCY OBJECT with the frequency in the object name does not
allow for a frequency in the comment.

;FFF.FFFxy*111111zDDMM.hhN/DDDMM.hhWrT079 R25m NETxxxxxx MTGxxxx...

The sections you are quoting above are from the POSITION COMMENT specification.

As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT

1st 10 bytes
FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz

2nd 10 bytes
_FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset
_FFF.FFF + Alternate Frequency and standard shift

Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

--
James
VE6SRV


Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3 versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...
There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY OBJECT is in the following statement:

If both the object name and the
comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10 character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted above, would be the transmit frequency.

APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
-----------------------

There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:

1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
---------- -----------------------------------------------------
FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz

Examples:
146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)

2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
---------- -----------------------------------------------------
_Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
_Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
_Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
_1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
_l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
_Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
_Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
_Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
_txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
_FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset
THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


Greg Depew
 

I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?


 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually. And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly? A D72? or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to. The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency. If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32




Greg Depew
 

if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT  qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually.  And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly?  A D72?  or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to.  The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency.  If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32





Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx. Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work. Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually. And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly? A D72? or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to. The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency. If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32






Greg Depew
 

that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx.  Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work.  Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT  qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually.  And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly?  A D72?  or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to.  The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency.  If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32







Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment. Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies. (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx. Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work. Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually. And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly? A D72? or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to. The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency. If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32








Greg Depew
 

ok so now the big question is how should the objects look like? if 145.230-w 145.230Mhz T186 -060 is ok but not because the name is the freq do we need to change the name? and i just made a cross-band obj 146.555(name) 435.075MHz t186. The ftm 350 qsy's to 435.075 with tone 186.2 but does not cross band to the 146.555 in the name.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment.  Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies.  (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx.  Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work.  Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT  qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually.  And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly?  A D72?  or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to.  The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency.  If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32









Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

You are now at the point that spawned a bunch of the recent traffic in this group as well as in the aprssig. The answer is, "we don't know yet". The FTM-350 seems to now be shown to completely ignore any frequencies in the object name and only uses frequencies from the comment regardless of the name.

The testers are still trying to figure out what all to test to verify what the existing APRS radios do, and then we need to figure out just what standards will work with the most existing stuff and break the least stuff, and then document that sufficiently for the future.

So, you now probably have objects that work with both Kenwoods and FTM-350s, regardless of the fact that APRSISCE/32 says they're non-compliant. They are, per the current spec, but they need to be or the FTM-350 won't use it.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 6:22 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
ok so now the big question is how should the objects look like? if 145.230-w 145.230Mhz T186 -060 is ok but not because the name is the freq do we need to change the name? and i just made a cross-band obj 146.555(name) 435.075MHz t186. The ftm 350 qsy's to 435.075 with tone 186.2 but does not cross band to the 146.555 in the name.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment. Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies. (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx. Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work. Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually. And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly? A D72? or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to. The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency. If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32










Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Try an object with any name, that has a body of:

435.075MHz t186 146.555rx

and see what the FTM-350 does. Assuming you did mean it to be narrow as well? Otherwise, it'd be T186 for wide. And then try the opposite as well (different name maybe):

146.555MHz t186 435.075rx

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 6:22 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
ok so now the big question is how should the objects look like? if 145.230-w 145.230Mhz T186 -060 is ok but not because the name is the freq do we need to change the name? and i just made a cross-band obj 146.555(name) 435.075MHz t186. The ftm 350 qsy's to 435.075 with tone 186.2 but does not cross band to the 146.555 in the name.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment. Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies. (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx. Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work. Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually. And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly? A D72? or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to. The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency. If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32










Fred Hillhouse
 

One thing that should be added for any tester is the revision of radio software. Revisions will play a part.
 
Best regards,
Fred, N7FMH
 


From: aprsisce@... [mailto:aprsisce@...] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 18:29
To: aprsisce@...
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 

You are now at the point that spawned a bunch of the recent traffic in this group as well as in the aprssig.  The answer is, "we don't know yet".  The FTM-350 seems to now be shown to completely ignore any frequencies in the object name and only uses frequencies from the comment regardless of the name.

The testers are still trying to figure out what all to test to verify what the existing APRS radios do, and then we need to figure out just what standards will work with the most existing stuff and break the least stuff, and then document that sufficiently for the future.

So, you now probably have objects that work with both Kenwoods and FTM-350s, regardless of the fact that APRSISCE/32 says they're non-compliant.  They are, per the current spec, but they need to be or the FTM-350 won't use it.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 6:22 PM, Greg Depew wrote:

ok so now the big question is how should the objects look like? if 145.230-w 145.230Mhz T186 -060 is ok but not because the name is the freq do we need to change the name? and i just made a cross-band obj 146.555(name) 435.075MHz t186. The ftm 350 qsy's to 435.075 with tone 186.2 but does not cross band to the 146.555 in the name.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment.  Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies.  (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx.  Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work.  Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT  qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually.  And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly?  A D72?  or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to.  The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency.  If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32