Date   
Re: Operate aprs while listening to hf on another band is that possible?

R. Patrick Ryan
 

For your, and this group's information, my Kenwood TS-2000A Transceiver is always available and working on 144.390 MHz FM with its internal 1200 baud TNC operating with APRSIS32 on the right hand B or SUB side, while I use the left hand A side for HF SSB contacts.
One day, had to work HF split using the A/B function, and both the MAIN A and SUB B sides displayed the two HF frequencies, yet when the APRSIS32 program sent a beacon, the TS-2000 SUB B side momentarily displayed the VHF 144.390 as it transmitted, and then reverted back to the HF frequency display.
Just verified, in VFO mode, working VHF Split, A side 146.52, B side 146.55, and forced an APRSIS32 TRANSMIT. Same thing as above, the B side reverted to the memory APRS frequency for duration of transmit, then back to split transmit frequency of 146.55. Of course, being on same VHF band caused audio to drop out for a bit.
Amazing radio design. 73 de Pat KC6VVT

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

John Brent - VA7WPN
 

I used that script, I had to change the pac1: to pac: as my PTC-IIex output is pac:, otherwise I was getting errors.

But..

Once the command "pac baud r300" is issued, when the next command "pac" or "kiss" is sent, it resets the TNC. 

But.. when I check the baud rate using "pac b" it tells me that its in R300 (Robust Packet) mode. It won't start kiss via "K", "Kiss" or "@K", or enter the packet menu without rebooting. The only way I can correct this is by using the command "pac b 1200" or any other baud rate to get out of robust packet mode.

John Brent
 VA7WPN

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

If you use a terminal emulator, what is the prompt after entering each command manually?  That's what should follow the ! in your <Open/CloseCmd>s.  Test it on your TNC and you'll know what is correct regardless of what other people with other hardware and/or firmware might be telling you.

But those messages are not fatal, they only slow down the opening as it has to wait for the default 1 second timeout before going on.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 2/13/2020 9:55 PM, John Brent - VA7WPN wrote:
This is the output from the trace(port(10.147.30))

WinMain:2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Starting Port(10.1473)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 CpReader Running on COM2:9600,N,8,1 (11 OpenCmds, 3 CloseCmds)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Opening COM2:9600,N,8,1
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Opening COM2 with 4 Args
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.878 Opened COM2:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 11 OpenCmds
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:45.534 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(PAC!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:47.535 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(USER 0!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:49.536 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(PRBOX 0!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:51.537 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(BAUD R300!pac1:)

I belive it is looking for a pac1: responce but the PTC gives a pac:. A number of people have told me that the pac1: is correct. but I am doubting that.

thank you again,

John Brent

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

John Brent - VA7WPN
 

This is the output from the trace(port(10.147.30))

WinMain:2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Starting Port(10.1473)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 CpReader Running on COM2:9600,N,8,1 (11 OpenCmds, 3 CloseCmds)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Opening COM2:9600,N,8,1
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.877 Opening COM2 with 4 Args
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:41.878 Opened COM2:9600,N,8,1, Flushing 0 in TransmitQueue, Sending 11 OpenCmds
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:45.534 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(PAC!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:47.535 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(USER 0!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:49.536 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(PRBOX 0!pac1:)
Port(10.1473):2020-02-14T02:44:51.537 Missed Expected Response(pac1:) From Command(BAUD R300!pac1:)

I belive it is looking for a pac1: responce but the PTC gives a pac:. A number of people have told me that the pac1: is correct. but I am doubting that.

thank you again,

John Brent

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Rob Giuliano
 

Thanks for sharing!

Yes, Windows seems to like the COMM port connection created by BlueTooth better than using the BlueTooth wizard and settings.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Sunday, February 9, 2020, 5:49:40 AM EST, Wolfgang Bieber <oh6dl@...> wrote:


Hello Rob,

solution found - when creating a new port in APRSIS32, instead of taking the Bluetooth connection (originally I used this one, because the modem connects via Bluetooth only), I took COM-Port connection using settings of the PC serial to Bluetooth connection. Now the modem is running without problem in RPR mode controlled by APRSIS,

Thanks for your efforts!

73´s, Wolfgang - OH6DL

Re: SCS modem card TRXPTC

Wolfgang Bieber
 

Solution: although the modem connects via Bluetooth only, use COM-Port when creating a new port in APRSIS. PC settings of serial-to-Bluetooth comport applied, APRSIS32 connects and controls the modem.

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Wolfgang Bieber
 

Hello Rob,

solution found - when creating a new port in APRSIS32, instead of taking the Bluetooth connection (originally I used this one, because the modem connects via Bluetooth only), I took COM-Port connection using settings of the PC serial to Bluetooth connection. Now the modem is running without problem in RPR mode controlled by APRSIS,

Thanks for your efforts!

73´s, Wolfgang - OH6DL

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Rob Giuliano
 

I remember seeing something about waiting for cmd: and that it times out.
Can you post your open and close commands from the XML?
  The original ones you used that expected the cmd:, not the Simply(KISS) ones.
  I assume that is the response from the unit when in command mode?
  Couldn't find that in the manual, and I don't have one to check.
  If not, what do you see in HyperTerminal (or TeraTerm, etc.) when connected and you power up the unit and it is waiting for input?

From what i can find, I think something like this might work:
<OpenCmd>^013!cmd:!2</OpenCmd>
<OpenCmd>@K^013!cmd:!2</OpenCmd>
<CloseCmd>^192^255^192^013!cmd:!2</CloseCmd>

I release this will actually give 2 <Enter> commands (^013 and the one already provided), but I sometimes find this enusre the cmd: reply comes up.
That and setting QuietTime to 0 (at least for a day) and see if that provides any success.

The cmd: must match the response fromt he unit when waiting for input.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 12:12:55 PM EST, Wolfgang Bieber <oh6dl@...> wrote:


Hello Robert,

thanks for your comments. The answer to all questions is YES, the test with Simply Kiss was done with same result. However, I have been connecting today the modem using APRSDROID via Bluetooth to work in RPR as a tracker. So I assume the recommended XML file for use with APRSIS32 is not compatible.

73´s, Wolfgang - OH6DL

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Wolfgang Bieber
 

Hello Robert,

thanks for your comments. The answer to all questions is YES, the test with Simply Kiss was done with same result. However, I have been connecting today the modem using APRSDROID via Bluetooth to work in RPR as a tracker. So I assume the recommended XML file for use with APRSIS32 is not compatible.

73´s, Wolfgang - OH6DL

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Rob Giuliano
 

I am not familiar with the SCS TRXPTC.  Everything comes up Pactor.

However, my first question would be:
1. Is the modem capable of going into KISS mode?
   APRSIS32 expect the data coming in to be KISS

2. Second.  Is the modem capable of staying in KISS mode over power cycles?

3. Last, and most important, is the modem already in KISS mode?

A quick check would be to disable that port and create a new port on the same interface, except as Simply(KISS).
  This will send no commands and just start listening.

Also, you can set the Quiet to zero for testing.  If no data is received in the time set in QUIET, APRSIS32 will try and reset the modem.
If the radio frequency is not very active, ...

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Friday, February 7, 2020, 7:35:36 AM EST, Wolfgang Bieber <oh6dl@...> wrote:


Hello John,

I do have a quite similar difficulty with SCS card modem "TRXPTC". My observation is, that the modem is waiting for a reply to several OPEN commands and then disconnecting. I checked the Log for the relevant port and found this:

Port(5.354):2020-02-07T11:57:50.354 Missed Expected Response(cmd:) From Command(QUIT!cmd:)
Port(5.354):2020-02-07T11:57:50.354 Terminating after 60496 msec vs 60000 Quiet

Maybe you check your log as well? Is it the same/similar message showing.

73,s Wolfgang OH6DL

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

Wolfgang Bieber
 

Hello John,

I do have a quite similar difficulty with SCS card modem "TRXPTC". My observation is, that the modem is waiting for a reply to several OPEN commands and then disconnecting. I checked the Log for the relevant port and found this:

Port(5.354):2020-02-07T11:57:50.354 Missed Expected Response(cmd:) From Command(QUIT!cmd:)
Port(5.354):2020-02-07T11:57:50.354 Terminating after 60496 msec vs 60000 Quiet

Maybe you check your log as well? Is it the same/similar message showing.

73,s Wolfgang OH6DL

SCS modem card TRXPTC

Wolfgang Bieber
 

Hello,

is someone using this board and could possibly assist with correct XML file for use with APRSIS32? I followed instruction given by Helge, SA7SKY in the Robust Packet Network Manual (page 11), The board connects via Bluetooth to the computer when firing APRSIS32, however neither beacons are sent, nor traffic via RF possible.

After going through the CMD open/close routine, the board disconnects and switches to STBY.

To assure the board is working, I used Alpha 4.0 in Pactor mode and FSK successfully on same TRCV (IC-7200).

RPN manual as well as Port Log attached.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

73´s, Wolfgang OH6DL

Re: Proportional beaconing feature request

James Ewen
 

Justin,

I can see that I got so distracted by the weird paths that I forgot to look for the "has-been-digipeated bit" in the packets.

2020-02-03 17:42:42 MST: KD1ELK>SSRPQU,KE7JVX-3*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1,qAO,K7EIR-12:`'Fmo4u>/`"8/}Justins Tacoma_% 

This first packet with the incorrect mark up got me going down the wrong path.

Just about every packet after that was heard direct by W7JET-10 and gated. Because the packets all had the exact same content, I incorrectly assumed that they were duplicate packets that had been handled by a variety of digipeaters. I didn't catch the missing "has-been-digipeated bit", and incorrectly assumed the digipeaters had filled in the path elements, and not that you were manually setting fixed path elements.

I'm sure glad that your local digipeater network was not handling the packets incorrectly so as to add in hops by themselves. There are software digipeaters that can be configured to modify paths to cause this type of issue, but most of the digipeaters are Kantronics, and don't support that type of operation.
 
However, I stand by my first statement... user education, courteous operations, and a well planned and executed digipeater network are a better solution than trying to brute force your way into a network.

Proportional pathing can be a component of courteous operations if implemented properly.



James
VE6SRV


On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 10:02 AM James Ewen via Groups.Io <ve6srv=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Justin,

If you are going to be doing tests, one of the best things you can do is to send test packets with time stamps. 

This shows the time that the packet was sent in the packet itself, and then each digipeat will have a time stamp as well. 

The list of all the packets sent from your station show identical content, which makes it look like it’s the same packet being handled multiple times. You are using a compressed packet which makes it harder for human readability. 

If you were sending the same compressed packet multiple times, and using hard coded path elements, that might explain some of what I was so confused about. 

Observing only partial results that are available on the APRS-IS can make for erroneous assumptions. 

The packets I was able to see made for a very confusing observation. I was at a loss to figure out how those various digipeaters were able to screw up handling the packet so bad. 



On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 9:54 AM Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...> wrote:

Thanks for the write up! Very informative. I’m aware of the state specific digipeating but need to test it out to see if it’s in place here. 

The paths that show me going to El Paso was intentional, I knew one of them was corrupting packets but didn’t know which. So I kept adding them over time until I found the culprit. 

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: Proportional beaconing feature request

James Ewen
 

Justin,

If you are going to be doing tests, one of the best things you can do is to send test packets with time stamps. 

This shows the time that the packet was sent in the packet itself, and then each digipeat will have a time stamp as well. 

The list of all the packets sent from your station show identical content, which makes it look like it’s the same packet being handled multiple times. You are using a compressed packet which makes it harder for human readability. 

If you were sending the same compressed packet multiple times, and using hard coded path elements, that might explain some of what I was so confused about. 

Observing only partial results that are available on the APRS-IS can make for erroneous assumptions. 

The packets I was able to see made for a very confusing observation. I was at a loss to figure out how those various digipeaters were able to screw up handling the packet so bad. 



On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 9:54 AM Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...> wrote:

Thanks for the write up! Very informative. I’m aware of the state specific digipeating but need to test it out to see if it’s in place here. 

The paths that show me going to El Paso was intentional, I knew one of them was corrupting packets but didn’t know which. So I kept adding them over time until I found the culprit. 

--
James
VE6SRV

Re: Proportional beaconing feature request

Justin Cherington
 

Thanks for the write up! Very informative. I’m aware of the state specific digipeating but need to test it out to see if it’s in place here. 

The paths that show me going to El Paso was intentional, I knew one of them was corrupting packets but didn’t know which. So I kept adding them over time until I found the culprit. 

Re: Proportional beaconing feature request

James Ewen
 

On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 8:38 PM, Justin Cherington
<huntjlc@...> wrote:
I’d love to see proportional beaconing as an option. Something like being able to set an interval for DIRECT, WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1, WIDE2-2 with a customizable timer for each. It would really help in a place like AZ where blasting at WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1 can easily put your RF across state lines, but you still want to increase your chances of being gated a few times an hour. Thanks Lynn, we spoke on FB about this today and you asked that I post it here. 

I've cc'ed a couple email addresses for some of the groups operating the digipeaters in the area.

The best way to keep your packets within state lines is to use the SSn-N alias. 

If your digipeater operators have configured the digipeaters properly, this alias will be supported in your area. If you are in Arizona, the alias will be AZ2-2 for a 2 hop path. 

A better means of being gated on a regular basis is to work on educating APRS users on proper path selection, courteous operations, and ensuring that the digipeater network is set up properly, including proper locations for digipeaters. This is not an easy task, many people are not receptive to advice from others. Trying to show people that there are issues with their equipment is very difficult. Digipeater owners can be some of the most challenging to work with as they will look at the packets sourced by their digipeater, and tell you there's nothing wrong. Unfortunately the majority of issues with digipeaters can only be seen by observing packets from others that have been handled by the digipeater.

Misconfigured digipeater aliases, and known hardware issues with various digipeater hardware are the majority of the problems. Delayed packet delivery is a known issue in the Kantronics equipment.

Brute force operations to try and muscle your packets out over top of other users is just a recipe for more problems. 

Looking at your packets, it looks like there’s something seriously wrong with the local digipeater configurations. 

It looks like you are running a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path which works for the most part. 

2020-02-03 17:40:39 MST: KD1ELK>SSRPQS,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,AG7GK-1:`'H6n>}>/`"7{}Justins Tacoma_%

  The packets above show your position packet being picked up directly by AG7GK-1.  

2020-02-03 17:42:42 MST: KD1ELK>SSRPQU,KE7JVX-3*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1,qAO,K7EIR-12:`'Fmo4u>/`"8/}Justins Tacoma_%

The packet above was digipeated by KE7JVX-3, but the digipeater has not marked the used path properly. It has inserted it's callsign which is marked as used (*), and then put an unused WIDE1 alias into the path.

When a digipeater handles a packet, it should insert the digipeater call, and then mark the alias acted upon as used as seen below.

2020-02-02 12:53:34 MST: VE6PS-4>USQUYQ,EDMNTN,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAO,VE6REF-10:`)?+m@}>/";s}/TinyTrak4 Alpha

You can see that the EDMNTN digipeater acted upon a WIDE1-1 alias, and has marked the WIDE1 as used up as signified by the * after WIDE1.

What follows in your raw data is a serious mess...

If we assume that KE7JVX-3 digipeated your packet and passed it along with the next path element as WIDE1, then no digipeater should handle the packet again as WIDE1 is not a valid digipeat alias. Yet below, we see a number of copies of your packet being handled by a number of digipeaters.

GREENS picks up the packet and digipeats it, which is then digipeated by ALPAZ, and then gated by W7JET-10. No evidence of any used paths are evident.

2020-02-03 17:55:07 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%

If the packet had path elements of WIDE1,WIDE2-1, and the digipeaters were misconfigured to act upon WIDE1, then its possible to see three hops when there was only 2 hops initially requested.

But look below...

2020-02-03 17:57:58 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%
2020-02-03 18:01:10 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%

We see five and seven hops in these packets... where are the extra path elements coming from? Why are these digipeaters acting upon the packet? Why is there no evidence of path elements showing?

It gets worse... somewhere along the line, a digipeater is also corrupting the packet... quite possibly K7TUS and MULE.

2020-02-03 18:03:14 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,K7TUS,qAS,W7JET-10:<0xf0>`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_% [Unsupported packet format]
2020-02-03 18:04:50 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,MULE,qAS,W7JET-10:<0xf0>`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_% [Unsupported packet format]
2020-02-03 18:05:29 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,MULE,qAS,W7JET-10:<0xf0>`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_% [Unsupported packet format]

Look below... this same packet using the same path was seen at 18:01:01, 5 minutes and 25 seconds before.

2020-02-03 18:06:26 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%

Actually if you look closer, the original packet went out around 17:55:07, and every packet after is a duplicate of that original packet that has been delayed in delivery.

2020-02-03 18:11:46 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,W7MOT-10,W7MOT-8,MINGUS,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%
2020-02-03 18:14:14 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3,GREENS,ALPAZ,LUERA,CABALL,JACKPK,HELIO,qAS,W7JET-10:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%
2020-02-03 18:15:50 MST: KD1ELK>SSQWXS,KE7JVX-3*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1,qAO,K7EIR-12:`'E>l"Y>/`"82}Justins Tacoma_%

How many digipeats, copies of the original packet, and digipeats of all those copies bounce around the area? We see evidence of this one packet bouncing around the network for 20 minutes.

These digipeaters stretch between Phoenix and El Paso.


Adding proportional pathing is not going to solve these network issues. You may find you have better luck in being heard by the local i-gates if you use no path at all. The digipeater network in your area appears to be so badly misconfigured and broken that it's lucky you can get anything through.

As a caveat, I am basing all of this on the data available to me via the APRS-IS stream. As you know, the APRS-IS stream filters out the majority of the packets on the local RF network using dupe filters. There are most likely hundreds of copies of the same packet being bounced around the area for minutes at a time due to the systemic issues in the area. Only the packets that are delayed longer than the dupe filters end up showing in the APRS-IS stream, and then only the first of each of those are shown.

You could try building a new proper APRS network on an alternate frequency... it might be easier than trying to convince people that their digipeaters are seriously broken.

There is so much going on here that it is almost impossible to know exactly what is happening. Being able to see all the packets as they bounce around the network might help shed some clues into what is going on.

James
VE6SRV

Re: Proportional beaconing feature request

George Smith <n7jjy@...>
 

Could not agree more.  Between northern Colorado and southern Wyoming seems like we (in Wyoming) get beacons from 100 plus miles at times. hhmmmm
De N7JJY 



On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 8:38 PM, Justin Cherington
<huntjlc@...> wrote:
I’d love to see proportional beaconing as an option. Something like being able to set an interval for DIRECT, WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1, WIDE2-2 with a customizable timer for each. It would really help in a place like AZ where blasting at WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1 can easily put your RF across state lines, but you still want to increase your chances of being gated a few times an hour. Thanks Lynn, we spoke on FB about this today and you asked that I post it here. 

Proportional beaconing feature request

Justin Cherington
 

I’d love to see proportional beaconing as an option. Something like being able to set an interval for DIRECT, WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1, WIDE2-2 with a customizable timer for each. It would really help in a place like AZ where blasting at WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1 can easily put your RF across state lines, but you still want to increase your chances of being gated a few times an hour. Thanks Lynn, we spoke on FB about this today and you asked that I post it here. 

'TCPIP' seen in from an ISS packet decode

KD7YZ Bob
 

... and then apparently DigiPeated by me.

here are a couple:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3:Fm KD7YZ-15 To APWW10 Via WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=88 >[19:38:26]
}K4KDR-6>CQ,RS0ISS,TCPIP,KD7YZ-15*::VE3FFB :Heard you via ISS in Montpelier, VA FM17es

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3:Fm KD7YZ-15 To APWW10 Via WIDE2-1 <UI pid=F0 Len=79 >[21:14:51]
}KC9YTT>CQ,TCPIP,KD7YZ-15*::KA8YES-6 :Your 599 in Williamsfield, Illinois! 73's
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Have seen this a lot and wonder if I have APRSIS/32 config wrong ... the Port-3 is an RTL/SDR-Console off a separate antenna. A monitoring setup for me to verify things sometimes. It comes thru the AGWPE-Telnet link/Port in APRSIS32.


--
--
KD7YZ Bob EM88LL

Re: APRSIS23 HF APRS & PTC-IIex

John Brent - VA7WPN
 

I have done the capacitor mod, with no change. 

SCS has given me instructions to do a memory dump / check in the sys mode to try and clear the flash memory.

more to follow.