Date   

Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

T W
 

The wxnow.txt file will be in the Cumulus main folder, however… CumulusMX does not generate the wxnow.txt file by default. You need to edit the wxnow setting in the config xml file and change the setting from zero to one. After I did this I created a weather object in APRSIS and it shows right up on my map.

On 25 Nov 2021, at 08:19, KD7YZ Bob <kd7yz@...> wrote:

Hey Greg ..
I now have CumulusMx running.
A long time ago I had paid for it.
I have a rather current version running now. It seems somebody else is maintaining it as freeware anyway.

That said, where does it place WxNow.txt? I can't find that file on the C:\ drive.

And then, does APRISIS32 pick it up?

What I "want" is, as seen on an APRS map, like our dear APRSIS32, to make it seen/known that some other person could determine some salient Wx conditions at, say, the QTH of KD7YZ-1 . Kinda like I do when I look at the wind-barbs at some of those who have the Wx Icon. I am checking to make sure my own Davis Anemometer is functioning appropriately ... like if I read 10Kts and everyone else around is 75-80 Kts, hi hi







Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

Hey Greg ..
I now have CumulusMx running.
A long time ago I had paid for it.
I have a rather current version running now. It seems somebody else is maintaining it as freeware anyway.

That said, where does it place WxNow.txt? I can't find that file on the C:\ drive.

And then, does APRISIS32 pick it up?

What I "want" is, as seen on an APRS map, like our dear APRSIS32, to make it seen/known that some other person could determine some salient Wx conditions at, say, the QTH of KD7YZ-1 . Kinda like I do when I look at the wind-barbs at some of those who have the Wx Icon. I am checking to make sure my own Davis Anemometer is functioning appropriately ... like if I read 10Kts and everyone else around is 75-80 Kts, hi hi


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

There are three (that I know of) APRS-protocol-using Internet-based networks.  The APRS-IS, Firenet, and CWOP.  The APRS-IS and Firenet are for licensed Amateur Radio operators only (I think) and are cross-connected so that all of the APRS-IS packets do show up on Firenet, and some, but not all, Firenet packets show up on the APRS-IS.   CWOP, as far as I know, is a completely independent, non-license-requiring, weather-data-distributing network which does not support filtering on their servers.  CWOP (http://wxqa.com/) is designed primarily to deliver weather data from average "citizens" to the National Weather Service and is not designed to be monitored directly by those citizens.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 11/24/2021 4:54 PM, Greg D wrote:
How is "CWOP" compared to / separate from "Firenet"?

I get my random Wx data from there. Firenet.us, port 14580.

Greg KO6TH


KD7YZ Bob wrote:
Roger Lynn's description of the excessive data.

So, take these three stations I see on my Screen.
K8WEH, WV8BRW, K8RRT.

They have a Wx icon; they have wind-speed, direction and Temperature.
In the beginning, all I said I want to do is put that data up.
I learned it was not possible with the D710GA.
It is not possible, according to Davis Tech Support, to have BOTH the Wx-logger IP as well as an output to the kenwood ... or anything else for that matter.

I learned it's useless to try to use the data that I ship to CWOP/APRS due the the shear volume of data resident at any moment.

Davis said I "could" purchase another Wx station and have it put out to the D710 but only if I designed an adapter to go from the us232 to a 2.5mm three-point plug to the radio.

So what method is left?









Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

On 11/24/2021 5:42 PM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
Ostensibly, CWOP sends it to APRS-IS.
Nope, CWOP uses the APRS protocol, but it is a completely different and separate network than the APRS-IS network that APRSIS32 connects to by default and in most (non-firenet) configurations.

I ask again, how do I get the data to my APRSIS32 screen like many others "appear" to be doing handily.
Please define "many others".   There are many amateur radio operators that are putting their packets directly in the the APRS-IS network and not touching CWOP.  These are the weather stations that show up with their callsign and not XXnnnn IDs.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Greg Depew
 

Is there an option to pipe the data to a wxnow.txt file?  A local file on your machine that 32 looks at and parses the weather data to send via RF and IS. 

This is the only way I know of making your local weather show up on your local 32 instance without making a port or another instance to either Firenet or CWOP.  



KB3KBR Greg. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: KD7YZ Bob <kd7yz@...>
Date: 11/24/21 17:43 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

My Davis VP2 data gets to the DavisNet site (weatherlink)
On that side I designate up to 6 other place to pipe it raw.
One is CWOP
the other is WeatherUnderground.

Ostensibly, CWOP sends it to APRS-IS.

I ask again, how do I get the data to my APRSIS32 screen like many others "appear" to be doing handily.






Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

My Davis VP2 data gets to the DavisNet site (weatherlink)
On that side I designate up to 6 other place to pipe it raw.
One is CWOP
the other is WeatherUnderground.

Ostensibly, CWOP sends it to APRS-IS.

I ask again, how do I get the data to my APRSIS32 screen like many others "appear" to be doing handily.


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Greg Depew
 

How is your wx data getting to CWOP? I don't have the weather link ip but there should be a way to configure it. 



KB3KBR Greg. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: KD7YZ Bob <kd7yz@...>
Date: 11/24/21 15:21 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Roger Lynn's description of the excessive data.

So, take these three stations I see on my Screen.
K8WEH, WV8BRW, K8RRT.

They have a Wx  icon; they have wind-speed, direction and Temperature.
In the beginning, all I said I want to do is put that data up.
I learned it was not possible with the D710GA.
It is not possible, according to Davis Tech Support, to have BOTH the Wx-logger IP as well as an output to the kenwood ... or anything else for that matter.

I learned it's useless to try to use the data that I ship to CWOP/APRS due the the shear volume of data resident at any moment.

Davis said I "could" purchase another Wx station and have it put out to the D710 but only if I designed an adapter to go from the us232 to a 2.5mm three-point plug to the radio.

So what method is left?








Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Greg D
 

How is "CWOP" compared to / separate from "Firenet"?

I get my random Wx data from there. Firenet.us, port 14580.

Greg KO6TH


KD7YZ Bob wrote:

Roger Lynn's description of the excessive data.

So, take these three stations I see on my Screen.
K8WEH, WV8BRW, K8RRT.

They have a Wx icon; they have wind-speed, direction and Temperature.
In the beginning, all I said I want to do is put that data up.
I learned it was not possible with the D710GA.
It is not possible, according to Davis Tech Support, to have BOTH the Wx-logger IP as well as an output to the kenwood ... or anything else for that matter.

I learned it's useless to try to use the data that I ship to CWOP/APRS due the the shear volume of data resident at any moment.

Davis said I "could" purchase another Wx station and have it put out to the D710 but only if I designed an adapter to go from the us232 to a 2.5mm three-point plug to the radio.

So what method is left?







Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

So here's my findu locale.
]


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

Roger Lynn's description of the excessive data.

So, take these three stations I see on my Screen.
K8WEH, WV8BRW, K8RRT.

They have a Wx icon; they have wind-speed, direction and Temperature.
In the beginning, all I said I want to do is put that data up.
I learned it was not possible with the D710GA.
It is not possible, according to Davis Tech Support, to have BOTH the Wx-logger IP as well as an output to the kenwood ... or anything else for that matter.

I learned it's useless to try to use the data that I ship to CWOP/APRS due the the shear volume of data resident at any moment.

Davis said I "could" purchase another Wx station and have it put out to the D710 but only if I designed an adapter to go from the us232 to a 2.5mm three-point plug to the radio.

So what method is left?


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Don Woodward
 

Bob:

Go to https://aprsis.fi and search for your weather station ID.

Unfortunately, as Lynn pointed out the data from CWOP goes to APRS.FI but APRSIS does not get that data so it won't appear in APRSIS32.

73's

Don W.
KD4APP
EM84au




From: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io> on behalf of KD7YZ Bob via groups.io <kd7yz@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 2:26 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?
 
Hey Do, how'd you pull that up? Or where ?

mine is EW3948

so can I pull the data into APRSIS32 your way?






Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

ok Glenn, nice ! how did u pull that Up
and
how do I put that on my APRSIS page?

Or? Should I?


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Glenn O'Connor
 


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

Hey Do, how'd you pull that up? Or where ?

mine is EW3948

so can I pull the data into APRSIS32 your way?


Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

aprs.fi has multiple feeds and draws from both the APRS-IS and CWOP in addition to ship traffic and I don't know what all else.  But by default, APRSIS32 only draws from the APRS-IS.


Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 11/24/2021 8:04 AM, Don Woodward wrote:
My Weather Station appears on APRS.FI - is that different from APRS-IS?



73's

Don W.
KD4APP
EM84au




From: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io> on behalf of Lynn Deffenbaugh via groups.io <kj4erj@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 7:54 AM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?
 
CWOP uses the APRS protocol, but those stations do not appear on the
APRS-IS.  There is a way to get a feed from CWOP, but it is unfiltered,
so you get the entire planet's CWOP stations if you tap into it.  That's
about 10-12K packets per hour.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 11/24/2021 6:15 AM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
> Hi Don, and other responders:
> I already feed to CWOP.
> I "think" I do it via the Davis feed, at their we site, IIRC.
>
> And when I look on my APRSIS32 screen I don't see it.
> Or just maybe, I don't know how to make it appear?
>
> Nonetheless, Don, I'll do a search on Meteobridge and see if it can tap the VantagePro2's existent plugin ethernet/IP adapter.
>
> I just can't understand why Davis Co. dropped the ability to feed straight into the TM-D710G .
>
>
>
>
>






Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Don Woodward
 

My Weather Station appears on APRS.FI - is that different from APRS-IS?



73's

Don W.
KD4APP
EM84au




From: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io> on behalf of Lynn Deffenbaugh via groups.io <kj4erj@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2021 7:54 AM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io <APRSISCE@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?
 
CWOP uses the APRS protocol, but those stations do not appear on the
APRS-IS.  There is a way to get a feed from CWOP, but it is unfiltered,
so you get the entire planet's CWOP stations if you tap into it.  That's
about 10-12K packets per hour.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 11/24/2021 6:15 AM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
> Hi Don, and other responders:
> I already feed to CWOP.
> I "think" I do it via the Davis feed, at their we site, IIRC.
>
> And when I look on my APRSIS32 screen I don't see it.
> Or just maybe, I don't know how to make it appear?
>
> Nonetheless, Don, I'll do a search on Meteobridge and see if it can tap the VantagePro2's existent plugin ethernet/IP adapter.
>
> I just can't understand why Davis Co. dropped the ability to feed straight into the TM-D710G .
>
>
>
>
>






Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

CWOP uses the APRS protocol, but those stations do not appear on the APRS-IS.  There is a way to get a feed from CWOP, but it is unfiltered, so you get the entire planet's CWOP stations if you tap into it.  That's about 10-12K packets per hour.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 11/24/2021 6:15 AM, KD7YZ Bob wrote:
Hi Don, and other responders:
I already feed to CWOP.
I "think" I do it via the Davis feed, at their we site, IIRC.

And when I look on my APRSIS32 screen I don't see it.
Or just maybe, I don't know how to make it appear?

Nonetheless, Don, I'll do a search on Meteobridge and see if it can tap the VantagePro2's existent plugin ethernet/IP adapter.

I just can't understand why Davis Co. dropped the ability to feed straight into the TM-D710G .




Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

Jack L. Blake Sr (AI4LL)
 

try the tempest weather station.
Jack L. Blake



On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 6:15 AM KD7YZ Bob <kd7yz@...> wrote:
Hi Don, and other responders:
I already feed to CWOP.
I "think" I do it via the Davis feed, at their we site, IIRC.

And when I look on my APRSIS32 screen I don't see it.
Or just maybe, I don't know how to make it appear?

Nonetheless, Don, I'll do a search on Meteobridge and see if it can tap the VantagePro2's existent plugin ethernet/IP adapter.

I just can't understand why Davis Co. dropped the ability to feed straight into the TM-D710G .






Re: KWD TM-D710G connection to accept Davis VP2 output?

NR4U Bob AFMARS
 

Hi Don, and other responders:
I already feed to CWOP.
I "think" I do it via the Davis feed, at their we site, IIRC.

And when I look on my APRSIS32 screen I don't see it.
Or just maybe, I don't know how to make it appear?

Nonetheless, Don, I'll do a search on Meteobridge and see if it can tap the VantagePro2's existent plugin ethernet/IP adapter.

I just can't understand why Davis Co. dropped the ability to feed straight into the TM-D710G .


Re: [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

That is exactly why I have View / RF / All and Configure / Scroller / RF Only!

I just set the Configure / General / Range to zero and make sure I have no Add Filter specified on my IGate instance.  Well, when I ran APRSIS32 on a netbook as my IGate.

I'm currently using KJ4ERJ-S5 which is an old Android Samsung S5 phone with no SIM card connected to my WiFi and Bluetooth to a Tracker 2 tied to an HT and running my TestHost Android client which will eventually re-graduate to APRSISMO unless I figure out a more suitable name by then.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32


On 11/23/2021 5:24 PM, Brian Webster via groups.io wrote:

Thanks Lynn.

 

Personally I like just watching what my station sees via RF only. There are plenty of I-Gates around here. I suppose I could turn mine on and just have the map view be RF only and have the same effect. The last few years I have just been more interested in how robust the regional network is when we might not have any internet.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lynn Deffenbaugh
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 5:13 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]

 

Brian,

There is no problem enabling your station to IGate all received packets.  The dupe suppression interval on the APRS-IS is a default of 30 seconds and it is unlikely that any given packet will take longer than that to propagate on the RF by 2 or 3 hops.  And if a station is transmitting their next RF packet within 30 seconds of their previous packet, then they're really transmitting them too fast and any overlapping race conditions can be solved by simply decreasing their transmit rate to something more reasonable.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 11/23/2021 4:52 PM, Brian Webster via groups.io wrote:

James is right, unless you are listening directly off the air the one thing you are not seeing in the raw data are the packets that die or that don’t get repeated because of collisions. In the unconnected UI scheme of things they don’t get resent, they are just discarded. With the random natured of the packet collisions this can also cause packets that are getting passed to the internet to be received by different I-gates. These packets take different paths, get decoded rather than discarded. Depending on where these I-gates are, this could possibly cause duplicate packets to be received on the internet stream and possibly be out of sequence to where a packet sent later did not have a collision and gets gated to the internet sooner than an older packet, maybe because the decoded packet was one or more hops closer that time.

 

Have you ever hooked your arpsisce up to just a radio and watched the map to see the path and hops any give packet is taking? It’s quite educational and useful to see what your local RF network is doing. I live in central NY at a good location. I am within an rf direct path of hearing about 10 digipeaters. On a good day I can see stations from just outside Boston to almost Pittsburg. I am not digipeating a lot of those packets mostly because I just heard the last of the 2 hops and decoded the packets. If I were to have an IS port turned on, then I would be gating packets to the internet. The odds of other I-gates hearing those same packets before I do in those areas far away from me are very high. Those packets would probably be on the IS before my packet gets to the IS and as such be a dupe, but there are times where maybe enough collisions happened that my received packet is the only one that did not get discarded. Depending on the transmit rate of subsequent packets from a station, newer out of sequence packets could indeed have happened. Remember I am not rebroadcasting these far away stations/packets but if I had the i-gate turned on, I would be sending them to the internet stream.

 

One possible solution to see if this might be happening, if you can set the path statement on the stations getting duped or out of sequence to the actual call signs of the digipeaters you want to use as the path to an I-gate. This would keep your packets from flooding in all directions of the network using the generic wide-n call sign. If the dupes and out of sequence situations stop then it’s likely the packets are taking irregular paths before getting on the internet stream.

 

The screen shot below as an example of my station seeing packets from a two hop path as heard by APRSIS. KC3MN-11 sent a packet, it was picked up by the W3NEP-1 digi and rebroadcast for its second hop, my local digi W2RGI-1 heard the packet from W3NEP-1 and rebroadcast it but had deprecated the hop count so that it would not be digipeated again. Since I can hear W2RGI-1 directly I decoded and displayed the packet on my screen. If I had an APRS-IS port configured I would have sent that packet to the IS. This is the ability of APRSIS program to be able to display the path when on RF that packets are traveling. This does not work for packets coming in from the IS.

 

Brian N2KGC

 

From: APRSISCE@groups.io [mailto:APRSISCE@groups.io] On Behalf Of James Ewen
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2021 2:58 PM
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]

 

Rick,

 

 

I kind of thought the data spoke for itself. 

 

It looks to me that NC4HC-15 has a hand in delaying the packets in question. 

 

I have not gone into detail looking at the delays between packets though. The KPC-3 issue tends to be an accumulating delay over time, so you will see a fairly consistent delay from the offending station. The delay is out the communications port, not with packets that are handled internally, hence the usual problem being at an i-gate. 

 

A KPC-3 acting internally as a digipeater doesn’t get affected by the communications port delay, and usually does not exhibit this behaviour. 

 

A way that you can cause issues with a digipeater is having it set up with hold off in an over saturated area. This means the digipeater can sit for a long time waiting for a break to be able to forward the packets it has stored. 

 

APRS is designed with some very specific implementation requirements, and most people setting up APRS, and APRS infrastructure rarely understand these requirements. 

 

Putting a digipeater on the highest point around where it can hear for hundreds of miles is detrimental to the APRS network in the area when there are other nearby digipeaters. 

 

Bob’s design for APRS is to have digipeaters purposefully cause packet collisions to kill propagation. If one installs a digipeater up high where it can rarely hear a quiet channel, and has hold-off enabled, the digipeater can end up waiting politely for a clear channel. This can then cause random delays once the digipeater finally gets a chance to spit out its packets. 

 

Again, listening to the RF channel will let you actually see what is happening in the area. 

 

The APRS-IS stream will not easily show you what is happening on RF. 

 

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 12:16 Rick <kd4dra@...> wrote:

James I have been looking at the RAW in the decoded format and I find A lot of Out of Sequence and the most common digi is the NC4HC-15

if that digi is not involved then the packets proceed as they should, I see it working with the other stations, as you did.

So I think I just keep trying to get this owner to do the right thing, I really don't know who the trustee is for the Machine.

I'm pretty sure I'm right. What say you.

Thanks

Rick

 

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 1:04 PM James Ewen <ve6srv@...> wrote:

Rick,

 

I got off my phone and onto a computer with a bigger screen... I see you copied packets from three different stations, although one didn't have any dupes highlighted.

 

Let's walk through this... here's a packet marked as a dupe. I'm going to select the payload `n5|n,au/]"7;}= and search for another instance of this. I find it 1:07 earlier in the log.

 

2021-11-23 06:25:36 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US6U,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n5|n,au/]"7;}=

2021-11-23 06:26:43 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US6U,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n5|n,au/]"7;}= [Duplicate position packet]

 

Let's continue that, just to narrow it down to just the packets that are delayed and their original packets.

 

2021-11-23 06:52:45 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US2R,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n5qn+<u/]"78}=
2021-11-23 06:53:31 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US2R,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n5qn+<u/]"78}= [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-23 07:23:19 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US1X,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n5fl 
<0x1c>u/]"7I}=
2021-11-23 07:24:06 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4US1X,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n5fl <0x1c>u/]"7I}= [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-23 08:19:57 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7W,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n4?l 
<0x1c>u/]"7:}=

2021-11-23 08:20:28 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7U,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n4;lI=u/]"74}=
2021-11-23 08:20:36 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7W,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n4?l <0x1c>u/]"7:}= [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-23 08:20:59 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7S,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n47mqgu/]"79}=
2021-11-23 08:21:16 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7U,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n4;lI=u/]"74}= [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-23 08:21:39 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR4W,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n47mT2u/]"78}=
2021-11-23 08:21:40 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR7S,GSPSC*,NC4HC-15*,WIDE2*,qAR,KO4CEF-1:`n47mqgu/]"79}= [Rate limited (< 5 sec)]
2021-11-23 08:22:09 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR3V,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n4=mqlu/]"75}=
2021-11-23 08:22:18 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR4W,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KI4M-1:`n47mT2u/]"78}= [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-23 08:22:41 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR2U,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n4<lq u/]"77}=
2021-11-23 08:22:44 MST: KO4HKX-9>S4UR3V,GSPSC*,NC4HC-15*,WIDE2*,qAR,KO4CEF-1:`n4=mqlu/]"75}= [Rate limited (< 5 sec)]

 

I have highlighted the common stations in the duplicated packets. KR4NO-1 gated a bunch, but we also see KO4CEF-1 and KI4M-1 gate the packets, so we focus on GSPSC and NC4HC-15 as a common element in all packets.

 


2021-11-19 18:59:41 MST: KO4NNH-1>STSX3S,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n7Ul p>/`"6Q}Fred in mobile_1
2021-11-19 19:00:56 MST: KO4NNH-1>STSX3S,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,GSPSC:`n7Ul p>/`"6Q}Fred in mobile_1 [Duplicate position packet]
2021-11-22 19:17:44 MST: KO4NNH-1>STTS7X,qAR,GSPSC:`n3=lK4>/`"7+}Fred in mobile_1
2021-11-22 19:18:40 MST: KO4NNH-1>STTS7X,NC4HC-15,WIDE1*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n3<l 7>/`"7+}Fred in mobile_1 [Duplicate position packet]

 

This narrows things down as the second dupe only has NC4HC-15 in the "has been digipeated" list, but we can also see that some unreported digipeater handled the packet by the missing WIDE2-1 element. We know the original packet was asking for 2 hops, and one is missing in this packet.

 

2021-11-23 08:24:07 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4T2V,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,KD4DRA-1:`n+qo@Wk\'|!1&9|!wlc!|3
2021-11-23 08:24:53 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4T2V,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n+qo@Wk\'|!1&9|!wlc!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 08:27:46 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4V4X,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n.8pJyk\'|!5&<|!w!G!|3
2021-11-23 08:29:06 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4V4X,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,SHOJCT:`n.8pJyk\'|!5&<|!w!G!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 08:29:43 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4V7S,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n.Vm}<k\'|!6%p|!w'W!|3
2021-11-23 08:30:40 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4V7S,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KI4M-1:`n.Vm}<k\'|!6%p|!w'W!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 08:33:16 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4X1W,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n/(n#
<0x1d>k\'|!8%D|!wG;!|3
2021-11-23 08:33:55 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4X1W,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n/(n#<0x1d>k\'|!8%D|!wG;!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 08:39:43 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4Y7V,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n0pnKAk\'|!:%D|!w4#!|3
2021-11-23 08:40:36 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST4Y7V,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n0pnKAk\'|!:%D|!w4#!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 09:03:22 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST5P0S,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n0Tm,Rk\'|!$%f|!ww{!|3
2021-11-23 09:03:38 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST5P0R,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,GSPSC:`n0VlRjk\'|!&%Y|!w:&!|3
2021-11-23 09:03:55 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST5P0S,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n0Tm,Rk\'|!$%f|!ww{!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]
2021-11-23 09:04:41 EST: KD4KBO-2>ST5P0R,GSPSC,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n0VlRjk\'|!&%Y|!w:&!|3 [Duplicate telemetry sequence, Delayed or out-of-order packet (sequence number)]

This station again shows both GSPSC and NC4HC-15 handling the packets.

 

Digging around for a while, I found another station.


2021-11-22 10:05:31 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SR4X,CHMBRS,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,SHOJCT:`nLb!7)k/]"<h}Monitoring 146.520=
2021-11-22 10:05:43 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SS3T,CHMBRS,CLINCH,WIDE2*,qAO,KI4HDU-3:`nM^!@kk/]"<m}Monitoring 146.520= [Location changes too fast (adaptive limit)]
2021-11-23 08:42:42 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SR0U,KM4BLG-15*,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,WT4R-1:`n@&nRUk/]";D}Monitoring 146.520=
2021-11-23 08:42:44 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SQ9R,NC4HC-15,WIDE1*,WIDE2-1,qAR,SHOJCT:`n@:n\/k/]";A}Monitoring 146.520= [Rate limited (< 5 sec)]
2021-11-23 09:06:33 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SW0Q,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,ANDMTN:`n*[ pOk/]"<(}Monitoring 146.520=
2021-11-23 09:07:28 MST: KF1SH-9>S5SW0Q,WIDE1,NC4HC-15,WIDE2*,qAR,KR4NO-1:`n*[ pOk/]"<(}Monitoring 146.520= [Duplicate position packet]

 

The location changes too fast is not a duplicate, but rather packets being seen close together in time, with large distance changes. This can be due to a delayed packet that hasn't been seen before showing up late.

 

Similar issue with a rate limit, the delayed packet and a live packet end up too close in time, and the rate limit algorithm triggers.

 

With these errors, you have to be a bit more of a sleuth, and look for other evidence of who the culprit was. Without the duplicate packet knowledge we have from above, it would be harder to find the offender. BTW, the KF1SH-9 also have another station that is delaying packets. I ran across it while trying to find examples for this email. Add that to your list of things that are broken.

 

So, based on the above, do you see any common callsign? 

 

Hessu filters out these "bad" packets to make the maps on his website look nicer. It gets rid of the zig-zag/backstitch issues that you can see when delayed or out of order packets are plotted on a map. While it makes the map look nicer, it hides the issue, and lets people live with their heads buried in the sand. Rather than fix the root cause, he implements a work around to hide the problems. Obviously one guy in Scandinavia can't fix all the problems around the APRS infrastructure, but hiding the problem doesn't help.

 

 

James
VE6SRV


 

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James
VE6SRV

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