Date   

Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

James Ewen
 

A WIDE1-1 digipeater should be a located in an area where the main digipeaters can be heard and copied, but low powered handheld stations can’t get the attention of the main digipeater. A WIDE1-1 digipeater fills in and helps the low powered handheld stations get that first hop into the digipeater network. 

High powered (5 watts or more) mobile stations and fixed stations should never use an outgoing path of WIDE1-1. Digipeaters should be located at sites that provide advantageous coverage of the local area. A digipeater should NEVER EVER use WIDE1-1 as an outgoing path. If a digipeater is located such that it requires help from a home fill-in digipeater to be heard by the main digipeaters, it should shut down and removed from service. It is causing more congestion of the local network than it is helping. 



On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 10:44 AM Greg Depew <goatherder_4891@...> wrote:
Would it be better for me to change 4 to respond to Wide2-2 or have the 1 the igate put out Wide1-1 and maybe light up digis that are very far away? 

Sometimes I can get into a big digi in Ohio but I can't hear it back on anything but the -1, and I've seen my packets be delayed while they hop through the system on open days then get regated about a min later sometimes in Canada or a different place in Ohio. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Lynn Deffenbaugh <kj4erj@...>
Date: 6/19/20 19:48 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

On 6/19/2020 6:38 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
Can you give a more complete description of what all is involved?

KB3KBR-11 is what station?  Software, TNC and radio please.

11 is a Yaesu Ft1d

Same for -4 (a WIDE1-1 digi) 

4 is a fill in digi , TinyTrak 4 with GPS and and FT 8800 in a go box programmed to only respond to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign 

Same for -1 (presumably a WIDE2 digi)

1 is APRSIS32 via sound card Signal link into an Ftm 350and is an igate and digi that responds to Wide1-1 and Wide2-2 

Same for the IGate and please include callsign-SSID with the other 3 pieces of the puzzle.

And some idea of who can copy who directly.  Can -1 copy the IGate directly or does the IGate need the boost from -4 to get to -1?  

1 is the igate, 4 is my mobile fill in that I'm using to get 11 back to the igate 

You've already mentioned that you can't hear -1 indoors, but only -4.  Can you copy the IGate indoors?  

When I'm at work inside our 911 center our grounding halo blocks just about everything. 4 is sitting in the truck in the parking lot and can hear 1 and 11. 11 can only hear 1 if it's out side and its iffy if 1 can hear 11 without either holding the antenna in the or more power.

If not, then can we assume the IGate is actually remote from your QTH, but -1 is local?

So, with that final line, it would seem that if you're IGate is using a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path, then -4 will copy it and repeat it locally so that -11 can copy the response at the 911 center.  Without the WIDE1-1, -4 won't digipeat and -11 won't copy it.

The big issue you have is that the -11 HT can't copy the IGate directly when at the 911 center, and apparently there's no bigger digipeater that will digipeat the IGate and be copied by the -11 HT.  No amount of pathing is going to solve an issue of a marginal receiver (the HT) at some distance from the IGate without strong coverage.

But a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path on the IGate should trigger the -4 digipeater to deliver a stronger packet to the HT.

Anyone have any better suggestion?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  An external antenna that you can connect to the HT inside the 911 center would likely also solve your issue.  Apparently the -4 has bigger ears than the HT or it wouldn't copy the IGate while sitting in the parking lot.

--
James
VE6SRV


Re: Question About Yellow Path Lines & MSGs That I receive

Mike Jordan <mjordan@...>
 

Thanks a lot for the information, Robert. I had gone through all of the sections of the Wiki when I was setting up and a few times afterwards and I did see the part about the message notifier and having a notice if a message was waiting. I didn't find anything on the types of messages that would be received though or much about the Mic-E ones, so thinks for that info. I've now turned off the notifications since I don't do anything with them and don't see a need to communicate anything back.

I did configure Paths-Appearances during my setup, although I wasn't sure about some of the settings. I do have it set to show RF only and not internet as there are a lot of red lines when I have the Network Links box checked.

Thanks again for the info. So much to learn with this, that's for sure. I'll keep going back to the Wiki to see if I can dig out some of the answers to some of my other questions.

Mike

On 6/20/2020 8:08 AM, Rob Giuliano via groups.io wrote:
A good place to start on the features of APRSIS32 is the WIKI:
Welcome to APRSISCE/32 - APRSISCE/32 The future of Amateur Radio APRS
<http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/start>




Welcome to APRSISCE/32 - APRSISCE/32 The future of Amateur Radio APRS

APRSISCE/32 The future of Amateur Radio APRS, The most fully featured
Windows APRS software available, Official ...

<http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/start>

I did a search (top right corner box with "search this site") on the
WIKI with something as simple as "Circle" and will admit what came up
didn't show anything obvious. However, my next try was to search on
"Map circle" (because the circle was showing on the map). First Item
showed Map Prefetch and with verbage of " ... The yellow *circle* will
begin expanding ...". Click on it and you get more detail. I could
have used "Expanding circle".


Q1: yellow lines that shoot out from my position
These are typically RF path lines. They cross as different station
DIGI. You can be configured what is displayed in >Menu >Screen >Paths.
For more information, I again point to the WIKI.

Q2: MSG Boc What do, if anything, with these?
You don't need to do anything, unless you want to communicate with the
station sending. BUT to communicate, you have to type something and hit
<Send>. Just hitting <Send> won't do anything because there is nothing
to send.

Most of those message are coming in from stations sending with the Mic-E
format. The Mic-E protocol has "Status" as part of the message. The
APRS spec for APRS clients says that when a mess with certain status
(like Special or Emergency") is received, the client should have action
taken. I won't go into detail on status vs. action. In >Menu
>Configure >Mic-E Notifications you can configure what APRS-IS does
with these.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Greg Depew
 

Would it be better for me to change 4 to respond to Wide2-2 or have the 1 the igate put out Wide1-1 and maybe light up digis that are very far away? 

Sometimes I can get into a big digi in Ohio but I can't hear it back on anything but the -1, and I've seen my packets be delayed while they hop through the system on open days then get regated about a min later sometimes in Canada or a different place in Ohio. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Lynn Deffenbaugh <kj4erj@...>
Date: 6/19/20 19:48 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

On 6/19/2020 6:38 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
Can you give a more complete description of what all is involved?

KB3KBR-11 is what station?  Software, TNC and radio please.

11 is a Yaesu Ft1d

Same for -4 (a WIDE1-1 digi) 

4 is a fill in digi , TinyTrak 4 with GPS and and FT 8800 in a go box programmed to only respond to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign 

Same for -1 (presumably a WIDE2 digi)

1 is APRSIS32 via sound card Signal link into an Ftm 350and is an igate and digi that responds to Wide1-1 and Wide2-2 

Same for the IGate and please include callsign-SSID with the other 3 pieces of the puzzle.

And some idea of who can copy who directly.  Can -1 copy the IGate directly or does the IGate need the boost from -4 to get to -1?  

1 is the igate, 4 is my mobile fill in that I'm using to get 11 back to the igate 

You've already mentioned that you can't hear -1 indoors, but only -4.  Can you copy the IGate indoors?  

When I'm at work inside our 911 center our grounding halo blocks just about everything. 4 is sitting in the truck in the parking lot and can hear 1 and 11. 11 can only hear 1 if it's out side and its iffy if 1 can hear 11 without either holding the antenna in the or more power.

If not, then can we assume the IGate is actually remote from your QTH, but -1 is local?

So, with that final line, it would seem that if you're IGate is using a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path, then -4 will copy it and repeat it locally so that -11 can copy the response at the 911 center.  Without the WIDE1-1, -4 won't digipeat and -11 won't copy it.

The big issue you have is that the -11 HT can't copy the IGate directly when at the 911 center, and apparently there's no bigger digipeater that will digipeat the IGate and be copied by the -11 HT.  No amount of pathing is going to solve an issue of a marginal receiver (the HT) at some distance from the IGate without strong coverage.

But a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path on the IGate should trigger the -4 digipeater to deliver a stronger packet to the HT.

Anyone have any better suggestion?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  An external antenna that you can connect to the HT inside the 911 center would likely also solve your issue.  Apparently the -4 has bigger ears than the HT or it wouldn't copy the IGate while sitting in the parking lot.


Re: Question About Yellow Path Lines & MSGs That I receive

Rob Giuliano
 


I did a search (top right corner box with "search this site") on the WIKI with something as simple as "Circle" and will admit what came up didn't show anything obvious.  However, my next try was to search on "Map circle" (because the circle was showing on the map).  First Item showed Map Prefetch and with verbage of " ... The yellow circle will begin expanding ...".  Click on it and you get more detail.  I could have used "Expanding circle".


Q1: yellow lines that shoot out from my position
These are typically RF path lines.  They cross as different station DIGI.  You can be configured what is displayed in >Menu >Screen >Paths.
For more information, I again point to the WIKI. 

Q2: MSG Boc What do, if anything, with these?
You don't need to do anything, unless you want to communicate with the station sending.  BUT to communicate, you have to type something and hit <Send>.  Just hitting <Send> won't do anything because there is nothing to send.

Most of those message are coming in from stations sending with the Mic-E format.  The Mic-E protocol has "Status" as part of the message.  The APRS spec for APRS clients says that when a mess with certain status (like Special or Emergency") is received, the client should have action taken.  I won't go into detail on status vs. action.  In >Menu >Configure >Mic-E Notifications you can configure what APRS-IS does with these.

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO



On Saturday, June 20, 2020, 12:58:43 AM EDT, Mike Jordan <mjordan@...> wrote:


I've only been running APRSIS for a couple of weeks and really only been
doing packet starting just before that.  Some of the things are pretty
clear, some I've been able to figure out and a few I've made guesses
at... which leaves a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to figure out.
There is a lot of information about setting up APRS with various modems,
sound cards, TNC's, etc., but not a lot about actual day to day running
of the thing in any one place.

APRSIS was pretty easy to get set up and running along with Direwolf and
SoundModem, which I switch back and forth on because I think SoundModem
is cleaner but Direwolf seems to decode faster and provide more
information.  I had it up and receiving APRS information in just a
couple of days on my Icom IC-746Pro. I then switched it over to an older
Icom IC-V8000 I had sitting on the shelf so I could free up the
IC-746Pro. It's been running just fine for the last week on the IC-V8000.

Now that I've had a chance to watch it run for awhile and dig for
answers to some of my questions I have a few things I'm curious about.
I'm set up as a TX/RX IGate with one hop (wide2-1).

First question is about the yellow lines that shoot out from my position
icon and zig zag back and forth (something crossing back over itself)
all over the place.  I assume these are internet paths but I've read
(without any detail) that they are RF paths, yet I don't see anything
come into me over the radio.  What are these showing and why do they go
through so many other nodes? Sometimes they go way out and then angle
back to a closer node before ending. I haven't found anything in the
logs that I've looked in to tell me anything.

Second question is the messages that I'm receiving. Every hour to a
couple of times a day, I will get a message indicator in the MSG box.
They appear to be from a mobile radio in beacon mode.  One example is:

KE7VGF-15 <-> KJ4TX-10
06:14:23 New Chat Between KE7VGF-15 and KJ4TX-10 on 2020-06-17
20:07:41> Mic-E:KE7VGF-15 Transmitted Status(Special)
New Date 2020-06-19
12:38:41> Mic-E:KE7VGF-15 Transmitted Status(Special)

In the message box it has Ack and Best checked. I can change it from RF
to internet. There is the send button and a place to enter a message.

What do, if anything, with these? I have tried clicking Send with
nothing happening and Xing out of them. I assume I can enter a message
and send it back but I haven't done that.  Should I be doing anything
with these messages or just ignore them and close them after opening
them up?  I get them from about 7 or so stations through out the day.

It's been interesting, especially seeing all the different kinds of
symbols that show up. I'm not sure if I'm providing any benefit to my
area though. We have several big digipeaters and a number of IGates in
my area. Most are WinAPRS and D-Star nodes though. But the coverage
around the Portland, OR area is pretty good, and though I have both RF
and internet traffic of some kind going through me, I'm not sure if my
node is actually doing anything useful. It is giving me something to do
with my radios and all of the computers I have laying around though and
kept me off the streets. LOL!

Thanks for any help on these questions.

Mike
KJ4TX

--
Hillsboro, Oregon
Bouvier des Flandres - Herding & Working Dogs
http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com - Photos of Agility, Herding & more




Question About Yellow Path Lines & MSGs That I receive

mjordan@...
 

I've only been running APRSIS for a couple of weeks and really only been doing packet starting just before that. Some of the things are pretty clear, some I've been able to figure out and a few I've made guesses at... which leaves a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to figure out. There is a lot of information about setting up APRS with various modems, sound cards, TNC's, etc., but not a lot about actual day to day running of the thing in any one place.

APRSIS was pretty easy to get set up and running along with Direwolf and SoundModem, which I switch back and forth on because I think SoundModem is cleaner but Direwolf seems to decode faster and provide more information. I had it up and receiving APRS information in just a couple of days on my Icom IC-746Pro. I then switched it over to an older Icom IC-V8000 I had sitting on the shelf so I could free up the IC-746Pro. It's been running just fine for the last week on the IC-V8000.

Now that I've had a chance to watch it run for awhile and dig for answers to some of my questions I have a few things I'm curious about. I'm set up as a TX/RX IGate with one hop (wide2-1).

First question is about the yellow lines that shoot out from my position icon and zig zag back and forth (something crossing back over itself) all over the place. I assume these are internet paths but I've read (without any detail) that they are RF paths, yet I don't see anything come into me over the radio. What are these showing and why do they go through so many other nodes? Sometimes they go way out and then angle back to a closer node before ending. I haven't found anything in the logs that I've looked in to tell me anything.

Second question is the messages that I'm receiving. Every hour to a couple of times a day, I will get a message indicator in the MSG box. They appear to be from a mobile radio in beacon mode. One example is:

KE7VGF-15 <-> KJ4TX-10
06:14:23 New Chat Between KE7VGF-15 and KJ4TX-10 on 2020-06-17
20:07:41> Mic-E:KE7VGF-15 Transmitted Status(Special)
New Date 2020-06-19
12:38:41> Mic-E:KE7VGF-15 Transmitted Status(Special)

In the message box it has Ack and Best checked. I can change it from RF to internet. There is the send button and a place to enter a message.

What do, if anything, with these? I have tried clicking Send with nothing happening and Xing out of them. I assume I can enter a message and send it back but I haven't done that. Should I be doing anything with these messages or just ignore them and close them after opening them up? I get them from about 7 or so stations through out the day.

It's been interesting, especially seeing all the different kinds of symbols that show up. I'm not sure if I'm providing any benefit to my area though. We have several big digipeaters and a number of IGates in my area. Most are WinAPRS and D-Star nodes though. But the coverage around the Portland, OR area is pretty good, and though I have both RF and internet traffic of some kind going through me, I'm not sure if my node is actually doing anything useful. It is giving me something to do with my radios and all of the computers I have laying around though and kept me off the streets. LOL!

Thanks for any help on these questions.

Mike
KJ4TX

--
Hillsboro, Oregon
Bouvier des Flandres - Herding & Working Dogs
http://www.sitnprettyphoto.com - Photos of Agility, Herding & more


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

On 6/19/2020 6:38 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
Can you give a more complete description of what all is involved?

KB3KBR-11 is what station?  Software, TNC and radio please.

11 is a Yaesu Ft1d

Same for -4 (a WIDE1-1 digi) 

4 is a fill in digi , TinyTrak 4 with GPS and and FT 8800 in a go box programmed to only respond to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign 

Same for -1 (presumably a WIDE2 digi)

1 is APRSIS32 via sound card Signal link into an Ftm 350and is an igate and digi that responds to Wide1-1 and Wide2-2 

Same for the IGate and please include callsign-SSID with the other 3 pieces of the puzzle.

And some idea of who can copy who directly.  Can -1 copy the IGate directly or does the IGate need the boost from -4 to get to -1?  

1 is the igate, 4 is my mobile fill in that I'm using to get 11 back to the igate 

You've already mentioned that you can't hear -1 indoors, but only -4.  Can you copy the IGate indoors?  

When I'm at work inside our 911 center our grounding halo blocks just about everything. 4 is sitting in the truck in the parking lot and can hear 1 and 11. 11 can only hear 1 if it's out side and its iffy if 1 can hear 11 without either holding the antenna in the or more power.

If not, then can we assume the IGate is actually remote from your QTH, but -1 is local?

So, with that final line, it would seem that if you're IGate is using a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path, then -4 will copy it and repeat it locally so that -11 can copy the response at the 911 center.  Without the WIDE1-1, -4 won't digipeat and -11 won't copy it.

The big issue you have is that the -11 HT can't copy the IGate directly when at the 911 center, and apparently there's no bigger digipeater that will digipeat the IGate and be copied by the -11 HT.  No amount of pathing is going to solve an issue of a marginal receiver (the HT) at some distance from the IGate without strong coverage.

But a WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path on the IGate should trigger the -4 digipeater to deliver a stronger packet to the HT.

Anyone have any better suggestion?

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  An external antenna that you can connect to the HT inside the 911 center would likely also solve your issue.  Apparently the -4 has bigger ears than the HT or it wouldn't copy the IGate while sitting in the parking lot.


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Greg Depew
 

See below



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Lynn Deffenbaugh <kj4erj@...>
Date: 6/19/20 09:31 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

Can you give a more complete description of what all is involved?

KB3KBR-11 is what station?  Software, TNC and radio please.

11 is a Yaesu Ft1d

Same for -4 (a WIDE1-1 digi) 

4 is a fill in digi , TinyTrak 4 with GPS and and FT 8800 in a go box programmed to only respond to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign 

Same for -1 (presumably a WIDE2 digi)

1 is APRSIS32 via sound card Signal link into an Ftm 350and is an igate and digi that responds to Wide1-1 and Wide2-2 

Same for the IGate and please include callsign-SSID with the other 3 pieces of the puzzle.

And some idea of who can copy who directly.  Can -1 copy the IGate directly or does the IGate need the boost from -4 to get to -1?  

1 is the igate, 4 is my mobile fill in that I'm using to get 11 back to the igate 

You've already mentioned that you can't hear -1 indoors, but only -4.  Can you copy the IGate indoors?  

When I'm at work inside our 911 center our grounding halo blocks just about everything. 4 is sitting in the truck in the parking lot and can hear 1 and 11. 11 can only hear 1 if it's out side and its iffy if 1 can hear 11 without either holding the antenna in the or more power.

If not, then can we assume the IGate is actually remote from your QTH, but -1 is local?

First, you don't really want to respond with the "same path as received".  You'll need at least to reverse the path and remove the used bits.  (Yes, programmers tend to be as literal as the computers that we work with all day).

And then you have to decide whether you want to use the reversed aliases from the incoming path or the explicit digipeaters.

Then you realize that aliases mean more than just WIDE1 and WIDE2 in some areas.  So, what's an alias?  (see PS below).

And finally you realize that some digipeaters don't insert there callsign into the path, and others might remove the alias that they consumed, and yet other digipeaters completely replace the original path with their own callsign and what's left of the alias.

So it really is unfeasible if not impossible to generically determine the "reverse" path to use for a message response.  And I didn't even mention the issues that come up with "Proportional Pathing" where a station rotates through different paths for different packets, so which one do you use?  And don't say "the one that brought the inbound message", because the first message gated to a station may be an unsolicited one from some -IS-remote station.  It might not be a reply that we're gating.

But if you provide the information requested above, we might be able to assist in setting a good path for your IGate to use, or provide an explanation as to your issue of receiving packets while indoors.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  See the Configure / Aliases menu on your IGate (presuming that you actually run APRSIS32 on the IGate) and check Configure / Aliases / Accumulate if it isn't already checked.  That will cause it to start populating the Configure / Aliases / Possible over time.  If you have Accumulate checked, you should also get a bunch of new Alias* trace logs that, if enabled, can provide an insight into what APRSIS32 is doing with Alias detection.

Aliases listed in Configure / Aliases / Known are not counted against the "used hop count" for determining "local" as well as putting the used hop count in the packet scroller.  They also won't show up as the digipeater or IGate which delivered the packet to the IGate or instance.

So, if you're using Configure / Scroller / IGate/Digi to see the station that you copied a packet from and are seeing some local alias (WIDE is pre-defined in Known, IIRC), then add that alias via Configure / Aliases / Known / New (or select it in Possible if it is there), and make it a known alias so that APRSIS32 will see the digipeater before the alias to put into the first column of the packet scroller.

Oh, and the timestamp beside the aliases in both Known and Possible are the time since that alias was detected in any processed packet.

Finally, the Configure / Aliases / Unused-0 shows those detected aliases that were seen without a used bit and without a -SSID meaning the remaining hop count was zero but yet the alias was not marked used.  The source callsign-SSD of the packet containing such an alias as well as the detected station type of that callsign-SSID are included so that you can go back to the raw packets and see what is going on. 

Consider the following packets with trailing unused -0 aliases:

MDAAOC-1>SYPY8R,N3KTX-2*,MD2,qAR,W3KIT-10:'hAJl o/]147.075MHz T107 +060de W3AAC=
KB6YTD-3>APN391,K6CDF-3*,NCA1,qAR,K6CDF-5:!4039.53N112313.17W#PHG4810/ Fill-in
K7D3>APTW14,K8COP-3*,MI3,qAR,DANSVL:!4352.60N/08550.95W_ KD8EHO Baldwin Airport, Lake Co., MI. Weather
UNION>APN391,W7MOT-3*,AZ2,qAR,N7SU-10:!3424.86NS11224.25W#PHG7830/SAR DIGI  JEEP POSSEPRESCOTT  KB6TWC    7900FT
OH64K-4>APRX29,OH9RDB*,TRACE2,qAR,SK2DR-10:)Ahma!/-#xQTOEe-{3CQRP station 129 17241 51.2C 11.85W 11.96V 50%|!/.(.]!Q!!!!"1|
KI7YEY-9>SR1VYR,N7HND*,WIDE2,qAO,WB7QMR-10:`'Xbn7Wj/]";N}=
K3MLS-9>S9TX7Q,W3UD-3*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1,qAR,W2MMD-13:`gV' Sak/]"5f}146.985MHz T100 -060Monitoring 146.520=
IW9GDC-6>APNBCN,IR8DA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-2,qAO,IW9GDC-10:!3808.50N/01530.31Er/A=001400Next Generation Beacon 50.006 MHz JM78SD
F5VO>APRS,F8KSM-3*,WIDE2,qAR,F1EFQ-10:Software: UISS 5.4.2
ERINB>APN383,N7ER-10*,WIDE3,qAR,KB7WSD:$ULTW00000000021F01D527B1FFF4901F0001----00AA015900000000
CDS>APN391,WALSH*,BORGER*,WIDE4,qAR,KD5ROK:!3426.19nN10013.37w#PHG7430/W3,WTX DE NL7C nl7c@...

The real question is did the originating station do it or did the digipeater not put the used bit (*) on the used up path component?  Only people local to those stations and/or digipeaters will ever know for sure...


On 6/18/2020 11:06 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
Is there a way for APRSIS32 to respond to messages through the same path as received? What I'm trying to do is get a message back from the internet through my fill in digi. 

I send a message to Wxbot from KB3KBR-11 and -4 digipeats it and then -1 digipeats it too. If I'm outside of the building I'm in i can hear -1 direct and get the message, if I'm inside I can't hear anything except -4. 

What I'm looking for is a way for -1 you send the message back through -4 so -11 can hear it. 
-4 is a fill in only responding to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...>
Date: 6/17/20 09:22 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

You are correct that it is a setting on the igate doing the reverse gating, but talking to the owner of digi-1 won't do you any good because digipeaters can't (or shouldn't) increase the number of hops on any packet.

You need to talk to the IGate operator and have them set the path for -IS to RF gated (hopefully) 3rd party packets to get good coverage in the local RF environment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 6/19/2020 10:51 AM, Max via groups.io wrote:
That is a setting at the igate that is doing the reverse gating. I run APRX and it definitely has a setting for the # of hops for messages had such. You are at the mercy of the infrastructure around you. You would need to talk to the owner of the digi-1 and have them increase the number of hops on reverse igated messages.

Max KG4PID

On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 10:06:37 PM CDT, Greg Depew <goatherder_4891@...> wrote:


Is there a way for APRSIS32 to respond to messages through the same path as received? What I'm trying to do is get a message back from the internet through my fill in digi. 

I send a message to Wxbot from KB3KBR-11 and -4 digipeats it and then -1 digipeats it too. If I'm outside of the building I'm in i can hear -1 direct and get the message, if I'm inside I can't hear anything except -4. 

What I'm looking for is a way for -1 you send the message back through -4 so -11 can hear it. 
-4 is a fill in only responding to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...>
Date: 6/17/20 09:22 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Max
 

That is a setting at the igate that is doing the reverse gating. I run APRX and it definitely has a setting for the # of hops for messages had such. You are at the mercy of the infrastructure around you. You would need to talk to the owner of the digi-1 and have them increase the number of hops on reverse igated messages.

Max KG4PID

On Thursday, June 18, 2020, 10:06:37 PM CDT, Greg Depew <goatherder_4891@...> wrote:


Is there a way for APRSIS32 to respond to messages through the same path as received? What I'm trying to do is get a message back from the internet through my fill in digi. 

I send a message to Wxbot from KB3KBR-11 and -4 digipeats it and then -1 digipeats it too. If I'm outside of the building I'm in i can hear -1 direct and get the message, if I'm inside I can't hear anything except -4. 

What I'm looking for is a way for -1 you send the message back through -4 so -11 can hear it. 
-4 is a fill in only responding to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...>
Date: 6/17/20 09:22 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Can you give a more complete description of what all is involved?

KB3KBR-11 is what station?  Software, TNC and radio please.

Same for -4 (a WIDE1-1 digi)

Same for -1 (presumably a WIDE2 digi)

Same for the IGate and please include callsign-SSID with the other 3 pieces of the puzzle.

And some idea of who can copy who directly.  Can -1 copy the IGate directly or does the IGate need the boost from -4 to get to -1?  You've already mentioned that you can't hear -1 indoors, but only -4.  Can you copy the IGate indoors?  If not, then can we assume the IGate is actually remote from your QTH, but -1 is local?

First, you don't really want to respond with the "same path as received".  You'll need at least to reverse the path and remove the used bits.  (Yes, programmers tend to be as literal as the computers that we work with all day).

And then you have to decide whether you want to use the reversed aliases from the incoming path or the explicit digipeaters.

Then you realize that aliases mean more than just WIDE1 and WIDE2 in some areas.  So, what's an alias?  (see PS below).

And finally you realize that some digipeaters don't insert there callsign into the path, and others might remove the alias that they consumed, and yet other digipeaters completely replace the original path with their own callsign and what's left of the alias.

So it really is unfeasible if not impossible to generically determine the "reverse" path to use for a message response.  And I didn't even mention the issues that come up with "Proportional Pathing" where a station rotates through different paths for different packets, so which one do you use?  And don't say "the one that brought the inbound message", because the first message gated to a station may be an unsolicited one from some -IS-remote station.  It might not be a reply that we're gating.

But if you provide the information requested above, we might be able to assist in setting a good path for your IGate to use, or provide an explanation as to your issue of receiving packets while indoors.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

PS.  See the Configure / Aliases menu on your IGate (presuming that you actually run APRSIS32 on the IGate) and check Configure / Aliases / Accumulate if it isn't already checked.  That will cause it to start populating the Configure / Aliases / Possible over time.  If you have Accumulate checked, you should also get a bunch of new Alias* trace logs that, if enabled, can provide an insight into what APRSIS32 is doing with Alias detection.

Aliases listed in Configure / Aliases / Known are not counted against the "used hop count" for determining "local" as well as putting the used hop count in the packet scroller.  They also won't show up as the digipeater or IGate which delivered the packet to the IGate or instance.

So, if you're using Configure / Scroller / IGate/Digi to see the station that you copied a packet from and are seeing some local alias (WIDE is pre-defined in Known, IIRC), then add that alias via Configure / Aliases / Known / New (or select it in Possible if it is there), and make it a known alias so that APRSIS32 will see the digipeater before the alias to put into the first column of the packet scroller.

Oh, and the timestamp beside the aliases in both Known and Possible are the time since that alias was detected in any processed packet.

Finally, the Configure / Aliases / Unused-0 shows those detected aliases that were seen without a used bit and without a -SSID meaning the remaining hop count was zero but yet the alias was not marked used.  The source callsign-SSD of the packet containing such an alias as well as the detected station type of that callsign-SSID are included so that you can go back to the raw packets and see what is going on. 

Consider the following packets with trailing unused -0 aliases:

MDAAOC-1>SYPY8R,N3KTX-2*,MD2,qAR,W3KIT-10:'hAJl o/]147.075MHz T107 +060de W3AAC=
KB6YTD-3>APN391,K6CDF-3*,NCA1,qAR,K6CDF-5:!4039.53N112313.17W#PHG4810/ Fill-in
K7D3>APTW14,K8COP-3*,MI3,qAR,DANSVL:!4352.60N/08550.95W_ KD8EHO Baldwin Airport, Lake Co., MI. Weather
UNION>APN391,W7MOT-3*,AZ2,qAR,N7SU-10:!3424.86NS11224.25W#PHG7830/SAR DIGI  JEEP POSSEPRESCOTT  KB6TWC    7900FT
OH64K-4>APRX29,OH9RDB*,TRACE2,qAR,SK2DR-10:)Ahma!/-#xQTOEe-{3CQRP station 129 17241 51.2C 11.85W 11.96V 50%|!/.(.]!Q!!!!"1|
KI7YEY-9>SR1VYR,N7HND*,WIDE2,qAO,WB7QMR-10:`'Xbn7Wj/]";N}=
K3MLS-9>S9TX7Q,W3UD-3*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1,qAR,W2MMD-13:`gV' Sak/]"5f}146.985MHz T100 -060Monitoring 146.520=
IW9GDC-6>APNBCN,IR8DA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-2,qAO,IW9GDC-10:!3808.50N/01530.31Er/A=001400Next Generation Beacon 50.006 MHz JM78SD
F5VO>APRS,F8KSM-3*,WIDE2,qAR,F1EFQ-10:Software: UISS 5.4.2
ERINB>APN383,N7ER-10*,WIDE3,qAR,KB7WSD:$ULTW00000000021F01D527B1FFF4901F0001----00AA015900000000
CDS>APN391,WALSH*,BORGER*,WIDE4,qAR,KD5ROK:!3426.19nN10013.37w#PHG7430/W3,WTX DE NL7C nl7c@...

The real question is did the originating station do it or did the digipeater not put the used bit (*) on the used up path component?  Only people local to those stations and/or digipeaters will ever know for sure...


On 6/18/2020 11:06 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
Is there a way for APRSIS32 to respond to messages through the same path as received? What I'm trying to do is get a message back from the internet through my fill in digi. 

I send a message to Wxbot from KB3KBR-11 and -4 digipeats it and then -1 digipeats it too. If I'm outside of the building I'm in i can hear -1 direct and get the message, if I'm inside I can't hear anything except -4. 

What I'm looking for is a way for -1 you send the message back through -4 so -11 can hear it. 
-4 is a fill in only responding to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...>
Date: 6/17/20 09:22 (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Greg Depew
 

Is there a way for APRSIS32 to respond to messages through the same path as received? What I'm trying to do is get a message back from the internet through my fill in digi. 

I send a message to Wxbot from KB3KBR-11 and -4 digipeats it and then -1 digipeats it too. If I'm outside of the building I'm in i can hear -1 direct and get the message, if I'm inside I can't hear anything except -4. 

What I'm looking for is a way for -1 you send the message back through -4 so -11 can hear it. 
-4 is a fill in only responding to Wide1-1 and it's own callsign. 



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...>
Date: 6/17/20 09:22 (GMT-05:00)
To: APRSISCE@groups.io
Subject: Re: [APRSISCE] Igates and their use of digi paths

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Justin Cherington
 

hi Arnold, Lynn got me all set with his reply. 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Justin Cherington
 

Thanks Lynn! I had a hunch that it probably used the beacon path settings, but then sat here overthinking it. 

 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Arnold Harding - KQ6DI
 

Justin,
Out of curiosity, what is your call sign?  what is the call sign of the station you’re using, and how do you have it hooked to a radio? These don’t exactly answer your questions but it gives all of us an idea where to start answering?


Arnold. KQ6DI 

On Jun 16, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Justin Cherington <huntjlc@...> wrote:



I’m trying to wrap my head around two way igates and if they generally use digi paths to increase their IS to RF ranges. In the SW we generally have igates in the cities/towns and wide area digi’s in the mountains. 


As a two way igate, if a station 80 miles away (easily just one hop) transmits a message and I gate it, how do I get the response back to that station when the recipient replies? In APRSIS32, I set the filter to let’s say 20 miles because that’s my direct range.  But that seems to be a disservice to the stations 80 miles away using digi’s, and I’m the closest igate to them. 


Am I missing something? I don’t want to increase qrm needlessly, but the hikers, hunters, and off roaders need love too. Thanks! 


Re: Igates and their use of digi paths

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Reply and questions interspersed below...

On 6/16/2020 3:05 PM, Justin Cherington wrote:

I’m trying to wrap my head around two way igates and if they generally use digi paths to increase their IS to RF ranges. In the SW we generally have igates in the cities/towns and wide area digi’s in the mountains.

This is true 'nuff.

As a two way igate, if a station 80 miles away (easily just one hop) transmits a message and I gate it, how do I get the response back to that station when the recipient replies?

IS to RF gated packets use the same path that you have configured for the IGate's beacons.  So, whatever you have in Configure / Beacon / Path... is the path that will be used on the 3rd party packet gated from IS to RF.  The theory is that the path will be set to something reasonable for your RF environment and that same environment is where you're injecting the gated packets.

In APRSIS32, I set the filter to let’s say 20 miles because that’s my direct range.  But that seems to be a disservice to the stations 80 miles away using digi’s, and I’m the closest igate to them.

What "filter" are you setting to 20 miles?  There is no distance filter that affects IS to RF gating.  It is strictly based on "recently" heard "local" where recent defaults to heard in the past 30 minutes and local means no more than 2 used hops in the "closest" received path from a station.  And these are hard-coded and not (yet) user-settable.

That said, you can affect the definition of "used" hops by setting appropriate aliases in Configure / Aliases / Known.  If SSn-N aliases are in use in your area, or any other aliases for that matter, you should have them listed in there so they are not counted as "used", but only the true digipeaters inserting used in the path are counted. 

Am I missing something? I don’t want to increase qrm needlessly, but the hikers, hunters, and off roaders need love too. Thanks!

Set an appropriate path for your IGate based on your local RF environment and you shouldn't be generating QRM.  Unless, of course, you're messing around with the Control-G / Control-I filtered gating of all matching APRS-IS packets to the local RF.  Someone was doing that in New Jersey and I got called out for "pushing" my lightning packets from firenet to their RF!

Note that you do not need any special filter to gate messages from APRS-IS to RF for recently heard local stations.  That is automatically an IGate function in APRSIS32 with the default Port settings for any instance with an RF and -IS port active.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32





Igates and their use of digi paths

Justin Cherington
 

I’m trying to wrap my head around two way igates and if they generally use digi paths to increase their IS to RF ranges. In the SW we generally have igates in the cities/towns and wide area digi’s in the mountains. 


As a two way igate, if a station 80 miles away (easily just one hop) transmits a message and I gate it, how do I get the response back to that station when the recipient replies? In APRSIS32, I set the filter to let’s say 20 miles because that’s my direct range.  But that seems to be a disservice to the stations 80 miles away using digi’s, and I’m the closest igate to them. 


Am I missing something? I don’t want to increase qrm needlessly, but the hikers, hunters, and off roaders need love too. Thanks! 


Re: Kenwood D710A running APRSIS32 on Windows 10 tablet with serial to bluetooth adapter

Gil
 

It does sound as if you've had your challenges.  My setup is not uncomplicated but I've made it as tidy and neat as I can without going totally "wireless".  I do have the ability to use my D710A for Winlink.  There's a setup predetermined for that radio in Winlink and I just used that, dialed up the nearest gateway station and it worked.  Obviously it's not doing APRS at the same time - but my FTM-400 can run in APRS mode at the same time if necessary.

Here are a few more of the components I used for my arrangement:

This is the hub I got that also allows power to be fed to the Surface Go:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXMNF1X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use one USB port for the connection to the D710A Control head with the PG-5 (?) cable and a serial to USB adapter.  Another USB port is used for the USB powered GPS receiver I use for the Surface Go.  The last port is used for the FTM-400XDR connection to the Surface Go for when I use that at the APRS radio with APRSIS32.  I got another el cheapo "regular" hub I can piggyback onto one of those ports to get a few more ports if necessary.

This is the mobile power supply I got to feed power to that hub:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FOOY32/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was tempted to cut off the cigarette lighter plug and use Anderson Power Pole connectors but I didn't want to circumvent the fuse in the plug so I had to use an inline cigarette lighter socket with a Power Pole cord to feed that power supply.  I guess I could have put a Power Pole inline fuse into its power feed, but I already had the other parts.  I try to keep everything set up with Power Pole connectors.

I used two of these as the "disconnects" for the wiring to the vehicle battery (which is additionally fused at the battery) and for the wiring to the "radio" battery (which is also fused at the battery terminals - it's a big deep-discharge marine battery) that is hooked to a West Mountain Radio ISOPower+ isolation device.  That cut down on some control wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P4DZ2JT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The "radio" battery is in the back.  I was never quite sure how well the isolator gadget was working regarding charging that battery so I found one of these to keep an eye on it with my phone.  I would have preferred a Windows application, but I have to settle for my phone.:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WCW49YM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I keep an eye on the engine electrical system voltage with one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0773BYS6P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yes, this all added up to a tidy sum, but I wanted to try to do this installation as well as I could.  It will serve me for many years.  I still have my other 15-year old vehicle from which I learned a lot about installing radios.  I plan to keep this one as long as possible too, so the cost will be spread out over many years.  I only get to do this infrequently...

Gil, WB2UTI




Re: Kenwood D710A running APRSIS32 on Windows 10 tablet with serial to bluetooth adapter

Anthony Mascola
 

Hi Gil,
Thanks for sharing your setup.  I really like it.  I purchased a used Toshiba Encore WT8-A32 on eBay as it was the only Windows 10 tablet that I could find that had a built in GPS receiver.  It turns out however that getting the GPS feed from the tablet and Windows is quite challenging and it has not been very useful and I wouldn't recommend this idea to others at least from my limited experience.  I had hoped to minimize wires and klunkiness and have as clean a setup as possible so that I might be able to remove the tablet from the vehicle and still use it with various mapping software but it has been an elusive goal.  I can only use the internal GPS receiver with the Windows Maps app but other software such as Terrain Navigator Pro can't find the GPS feed even with creating a virtual serial port to output this data. I have to use the K6VHF GPS unit attached to the D710 with APRSIS32.  Unfortunately SARTrack can't even utilize the K6VHF GPS feed and requires a separate external serial GPS unit which I am still in need of acquiring and klunkiness and wires and time and expense galore have been the bane of my efforts to date.

The tablet was inexpensive and appeared promising initially but the above limitations I ran into with Windows 10 and the internal GPS data not being easily acceptable for other software plus the limitations of the single USB micro-B connector for charging and data communications has proven challenging.  It is a little tricky I have found to use the tablet as it requires a special custom Y cable to trick the computer into allowing data exchange and power at the same time.  The USB-C connector seems to have a lot of advantages over the micro USB port in this regard.  I had a problem where I wore out the first micro USB port from removing and inserting the cable repeatedly and tried to repair it and ended up having to replace the entire tablet with another one on eBay as I was unable to repair it and also incurred damage due to non sine wave AC power from the power supply plugged into the inverter described below.  Your setup with the magnetic connector is very good.  

Getting the US Converters Blutronium configured properly is also still elusive and has consumed dozens of hours of time and despite numerous exchanges with the manufacturer, I have yet to get it running consistently with Winlink Express.  I can get it running intermittently with APRSIS32 but I can't count on it.  I have given up on this for the time being as I just don't have time to keep trying and have been using the RT systems serial to USB connector.  The USB to serial cable introduces a challenge with the tablet above as the connector itself requires power to enable it to function and the special Y cable to connect it all which is also somewhat finicky.  The power required to charge the tablet is greater than the 0.5A that is typical for a USB port and requires a more significant power supply.  If I plug the tablet into the inverter built into the Jeep with a AC to DC wall wart type of power supply I have encountered damage to the motherboard possibly because the inverter is not a pure sine wave output.  This was another factor leading to my needing to replace the first tablet and I have run it off of a power bank since that time.

I post this to assist others in being aware that though this would appear to be a straightforward project, but at least for me it has been quite challenging and at times very frustrating.  I think the Microsoft Surface or other tablet with a USB C connector and hub and USB to serial cables would be the way to go.  If anyone out there has ever been successful in getting a Windows tablet and bluetooth to serial connector running with APRSIS32 and other software such as SARTrack or Winlink Express I would love to know how you configured this with the Kenwood D710. 

t would be nice to see how other persons are running a Windows tablet in their vehicles.  Despite the klunkiness and time and frustration above, I love being able to send Winlink packet and email and use APRS on the beautiful color screen of the tablet and also to have the tablet to program the transceiver and use the internet for general computing use when in cell range.   it would be nice to share ideas on how to streamline this process for others.  So far I like your setup the best Gil of all that I have heard about. 


Re: Kenwood D710A running APRSIS32 on Windows 10 tablet with serial to bluetooth adapter

Gil
 

I've been dealing with a somewhat similar problem.  I have a Microsoft Surface Go Windows 10 "tablet" in my new vehicle.  I finally found a way to "install" it so that it's visible for use and connected to my radios, but removable when not in use.  I didn't go the Bluetooth route although I considered it, but I'm not savvy enough to pull that off.  It only has ONE type-C USB port on it.  It also has a charging port for its somewhat proprietary charger configuration.  I wanted to be able to connect my D710A and a separate GPS receiver to the computer (I also have a Yaesu FTM-400XDR that's connected to it also).  I didn't really want to have to come up with a power source to connect to the charging port on the computer.  I discovered that the "new" computers like this can do all sorts of things via that USB port.  In particular, with the right USB hub, I can connect three USB devices AND an external power supply and it will communicate with all those devices and charge the computer's battery (full-blast, not a trickle charge) through that one single USB port ("USB Power Delivery").  Who knew?  I certainly didn't.  I still have to use a serial to USB adapter on the cable from the D710A, but all that extra stuff is hidden under the front seat.

So then the issue became how to get the computer in and out easily without wearing out the USB port.  I found a magnetically-coupled USB-C connector (right angle, no less) that simply uncouples the one and only connection when I want to remove the computer. (https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Transfer-Compatible/dp/B07TT6NGBC/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia-wc-p13n1_0?cv_ct_cx=magnetic+usb+connector&dchild=1&keywords=magnetic+usb+connector&pd_rd_i=B07TT6NGBC&pd_rd_r=94dcae33-42b7-4b0c-8698-2b71c4fa3a4b&pd_rd_w=3HAPK&pd_rd_wg=QUe6u&pf_rd_p=1da5beeb-8f71-435c-b5c5-3279a6171294&pf_rd_r=7V7DHKG861TGQWYY3592&psc=1&qid=1591821940&sr=1-1-70f7c15d-07d8-466a-b325-4be35d7258cc)

There was one problem I had not counted on.  If I left the computer connected in the vehicle in my garage overnight, the computer's battery would be significantly depleted by the next day.  I discovered that the "turned-off" computer was powering the USB GPS receiver when the external power source was turned off.  Shutting off the computer with its default power settings would not shut off the power to the USB port.  An internet search had me check what the power button does in Windows 10.  It has to really shut it off and not just put it to sleep.  Now it really shuts everything off when I turn it off.

I know this doesn't directly address your problem, but I thought it might give you some alternative ideas...

Gil, WB2UTI


Re: Remembering Settings Across Restart

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

IIRC, (it's been a long time since I wrote this particular code), when a windows is maximized or minimized, the Win32 API to get the window position and size returns some really weird numbers. Rather than remember these and have to deal with them on the restart, I simply don't change the remembered windows parameters if the client is closed while maximized or minimized.

Unfortunately, the View settings for the window(s) (including MultiTracks) are attached to the size and position when they are saved resulting in the View settings also not being saved and restored if a client is closed while maximized or minimized.

One of these days (weeks?  months?  years?) I may revisit this issue but every time I think about it I remember the "weight of the installed base".  Doing such a change such that it is backward-compatible (new code honors old saved values), I anticipate being tricky.  But some day I might get inspired to joust with that particular dragon (or tickle it's tail: see definition 3 from https://tinyurl.com/ydfnzs3s)

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 6/9/2020 7:32 PM, Jeff wrote:
Lynn,

In the past I have seen the limitation of APRSIS32 not being able to save settings when maximized. I've never asked, and apologize if it has been explained before, but I was just wondering the reason for that limitation. Is it a "Windows" thing, or something else?

Thanks for all you do to support and improve this software!

73,
Jeff
N5TEV


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