Date   

Re: TNC-KPC-3+ Commands Question

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

Those aren't KPC-3+ commands, they're the default commands provided for a KISS type port that take a Kenwood APRS radio into and out of KISS mode, provided that the radio is in Packet mode originally.

For the KPC-3, I recommend using a terminal emulator to put the TNC into KISS mode permanently and then use a Simply(KISS) type port in APRSISCE/32.  This port type doesn't do any open or close commands, but assumes that the TNC is, and will stay in, KISS mode.

As for the issues with the KPC-3+, please read:

http://blog.aprs.fi/2011/03/kantronics-kpc3-considered-harmful.html

The videos mentioned are linked from that page.

Eventually I hope to provide a KPC-3+ demanded "feature" that will periodically drop the TNC out of KISS mode and put it back into KISS.  This has been shown to clear up the delays that this TNC firmware version seems to introduce.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



On 2/22/2015 9:19 PM, kk4lqx@... [aprsisce] wrote:

Hello,


I'm trying to figure out what the command are on the page title mentioned above. I have tried entering them manually and not all of them work, I also couldn't find them in the manuals. That being said when I let APRSIS32 run them everything appears to be working just fine, meaning it will transmit and receive packets. I'm using two Kantronics KAM one running firmware E8.2 and the other running E6.2. The E8.2 is for 1200 baud VHF and the E6.2 is for 300 baud HF, are these settings correct for both?


^M~ - ???
^M~ - ???
XFLOW ON!!0 - Software flow control on
FULLDUP OFF!!0 - data carrier detect
INT KISS!!0 - Interface mode KISS
RESET!!0 - soft reset of the TNC
^192^255^192~!!0 - ???
^C^C^C~!!0 - ???


Thanks in advance,


73,

Evan

KK4LQX




Re: TNC-KPC-3+ Commands Question

Carl Davis
 

Be careful using the 3+ with the program.  It can hold packets and leading to delays in gating info.  Lynn and others can explain it probably better, there is also a youtube on the problems using the 3+.
 
Carl,KB1EJH


From: "kk4lqx@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2015 9:19 PM
Subject: [aprsisce] TNC-KPC-3+ Commands Question



Hello,

I'm trying to figure out what the command are on the page title mentioned above. I have tried entering them manually and not all of them work, I also couldn't find them in the manuals. That being said when I let APRSIS32 run them everything appears to be working just fine, meaning it will transmit and receive packets. I'm using two Kantronics KAM one running firmware E8.2 and the other running E6.2. The E8.2 is for 1200 baud VHF and the E6.2 is for 300 baud HF, are these settings correct for both?

^M~ - ???
- ???
XFLOW ON!!0 - Software flow control on
FULLDUP OFF!!0
INT KISS!!0 - Interface mode KISS
RESET!!0 - soft reset of the TNC
^192^255^192~!!0 - ???
^C^C^C~!!0 - ???


Thanks in advance,

73,
Evan
KK4LQX






TNC-KPC-3+ Commands Question

kk4lqx@...
 

Hello,


I'm trying to figure out what the command are on the page title mentioned above. I have tried entering them manually and not all of them work, I also couldn't find them in the manuals. That being said when I let APRSIS32 run them everything appears to be working just fine, meaning it will transmit and receive packets. I'm using two Kantronics KAM one running firmware E8.2 and the other running E6.2. The E8.2 is for 1200 baud VHF and the E6.2 is for 300 baud HF, are these settings correct for both?


<OpenCmd>^M~</OpenCmd> - ???
<OpenCmd>^M~</OpenCmd> - ???
<OpenCmd>XFLOW ON!!0</OpenCmd> - Software flow control on
<OpenCmd>FULLDUP OFF!!0</OpenCmd> - data carrier detect
<OpenCmd>INT KISS!!0</OpenCmd> - Interface mode KISS
<OpenCmd>RESET!!0</OpenCmd> - soft reset of the TNC
<CloseCmd>^192^255^192~!!0</CloseCmd> - ???
<CloseCmd>^C^C^C~!!0</CloseCmd> - ???


Thanks in advance,


73,

Evan

KK4LQX



Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

robt.harris
 

Since the two interact, either and/or both.

Whenever I have set up a TT4 with a radio that does not have the "data" port, I usually start with the radio volume control at its midpoint (often 12 o'clock) and then adjust the setting of the RXAMP.

On 2/22/2015 10:53 AM, godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] wrote:
 

Bob, quick question, are you speaking of the audio as in RXAMP and those settings, or the volume on the radio?


--

Bob Harris (K9UDX)
Can MOTCH Katmai Henry David Thoreau UDX Bda UD (1992-2005)
Longmeadow Bradford Torrey CD (2001-2014)
Ch Silvercreek Gossip Girl
Bath, NH


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Curtis Wagner
 

Bob, quick question, are you speaking of the audio as in RXAMP and those settings, or the volume on the radio?


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Curtis Wagner
 

Thank you for the reply and advice Bob!


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

robt.harris
 

Pseudo intelligent guess. It appears you have an audio level around 70 when there is no signal present (just unsquelched noise). When you receive a packet, the audio level goes "off scale", i..e. over 100 and only the two least significant digits show.

Try to get the audio level in the absence of any traffic down below, say, 10 - 20 and see if your packets then come in where they should be.

On 2/21/2015 7:19 PM, godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] wrote:
 

If anyone is interesting in viewing the 4 minute video I made today of me in teraterm trying to figure out and decode packets, here is a link. Everytime a packet comes in the values drop to 20. Not sure what else I can do to get those values up. Here is the link  decodingpackets

 


--

Bob Harris (K9UDX)
Can MOTCH Katmai Henry David Thoreau UDX Bda UD (1992-2005)
Longmeadow Bradford Torrey CD (2001-2014)
Ch Silvercreek Gossip Girl
Bath, NH


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

Curtis Wagner
 

If anyone is interesting in viewing the 4 minute video I made today of me in teraterm trying to figure out and decode packets, here is a link. Everytime a packet comes in the values drop to 20. Not sure what else I can do to get those values up. Here is the link  decodingpackets

 


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

James Ewen
 

Why not watch this video and learn to correlate the sounds to seeing the packets show up on screen.

You can see the successfully decoded packets show up immediately on the screen. Right near the start, you will hear two packets that are not successfully decoded. Watch and learn from this video.


You'll never be able to decode every packet you can hear by ear. The packets need to be good a strong to be able to be decoded.

Your file sounds like it was recorded via a microphone listening in a room to the audio coming from a speaker on another device, rather than recorded directly. It sounds like there's other background audio mixed in.

With that type of recording, it's tough to know what you are actually hearing on air. Any of what I heard via your recording is probably not going to be able to be decoded by ANY APRS decoder.



James
VE6SRV

On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 11:08 AM, godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] <aprsisce@...> wrote:
[Attachment(s) from godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] included below]

And don't take this the wrong way, but I've attached audio of my radio set to the same frequency as my transmitter, with the transmitter on and nearby with the same frequency. If someone can tell me A. out of that, what is a packet and B. how do I know which, if any, is my packet, I'd be appreciative.



Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

Curtis Wagner
 

I made a 4 minute video of what I'm seeing if anyone would like to view.......cannot attach here, too big.


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

Curtis Wagner
 

To answer Lynn's question....BTW, what do you have currently checked in the Configure / Scroller submenu options? It has "Show All" checkmarked


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

Curtis Wagner
 

Ok good, so those are packet signals. Now using teraterm, when they come in, the values drop to between 15-40. Adjusting rxamp and/or cdlevel doesn't raise them much but to maybe 50. Using the volume control on the radio, doesn't do much to get them to 55 at most. No offense, but I am following what people tell me. Short of getting out the camcorder I don't know what else to do. You are all helpful, and I appreciate it, but its not like I am not doing what people tell me to do....I just really don't know what else to do. When you hear those packets, that's what I've heard since the beginning, but the monitor values won't adjust to 80-90 no matter what I do.


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

Rob Giuliano
 

The only packet signals I heard were very early on.
   3-  4 seconds: VERY QUIET 
   8-  9 seconds
 18-19 seconds

Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO


---------------------------------------------


From: "godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] What do these things mean APRSISCE [1 Attachment]

 
[Attachment(s) from godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] included below]
And don't take this the wrong way, but I've attached audio of my radio set to the same frequency as my transmitter, with the transmitter on and nearby with the same frequency. If someone can tell me A. out of that, what is a packet and B. how do I know which, if any, is my packet, I'd be appreciative.



Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Curtis Wagner
 

And don't take this the wrong way, but I've attached audio of my radio set to the same frequency as my transmitter, with the transmitter on and nearby with the same frequency. If someone can tell me A. out of that, what is a packet and B. how do I know which, if any, is my packet, I'd be appreciative.


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Eric Lorenz K9LGE
 

Godfather,

Please don't take this the wrong way...but are you listening to what anyone is saying...especially Lynn? before you do anything else...you needs to run a terminal program, like HyperTerm, and simply see if you can receve any APRS packets! THEN you can start looking at other issues.

Start simple...radio...TT4...laptop running terminal program. That's it.

Then go from there.

Eric K9LGE

On Feb 20, 2015 5:18 PM, "godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce]" <aprsisce@...> wrote:
 

Its cold, but at this point doesn't even phase me. I'll take the wouxun and try to listen. I know what you mean about the packets. I've seen the numbers "change" with whatever comes in, about 3 times within a minute, so there's obviously more than packets I need coming in. Is there a way to get the values you need in monitor, then exit the emulator so that the tt4 can decode, but still be able to monitor them in the emulator. I would think not, since you have to hit esc 3 times to get into that mode. Ahhhh that was probably a dumb question. At least I know to ignore the background noise and numbers you mentioned. I'll give this a go tomorrow and see what happens, that's when I hope to get enough alone/free time to be able to focus on this. One question I would like to ask now about aprsisce is this. Assuming this all gets working, when I pull up aprsisce, it immediately puts my callsign on the left side, should I immediately see an asterick or would it take a minute or two for it to pop up? Secondly, once the asterick shows with my id, when I click my balloon on the map, should the "internal" time reset when a packet is received and also should the beacon time also reset and start a new countdown if you will? 


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Rob Giuliano
 

I highly recommend you leave the RXAMP value less than 10.  Too high value will cause clipping and poor decodes.  Those values you quote below are the clipping values, and you really don't want clipping.

Remember, the audio characteristics will change from NOISE at all frequencies vs. data at only 2 frequencies.

To quote Byon from previous post on the TT4 group:
"The important part is that you don't want clamping to occur when a packet is being received.  So you want to see a MONITOR value that is HIGHER when listening to open squelch static then when you are receiving a packet.  If the open squelch MONITOR level is EQUAL to the level when a packet is incoming, it is probably clamping, and you probably need to lower the incoming volume, not necessarily the RXA level.   If the MONITOR level is ever showing 127, you need to lower the RXA."

There is a setting in the TT4 (DECSTAT) which might help
 
Robert Giuliano
KB8RCO


---------------------------------------------


From: "godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce]"
To: aprsisce@...
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] What do these things mean APRSISCE

 
Well I think the flying blind part is accurate because when I was trying with the wouxun I would see values change on the monitor command but had no idea if it was a packet or what it was. The thing I did in that instance was, I had 2 laptops, so I turned one to the aprs website and the other was watching the emulator and monitor.....and when the aprs updated I'd stop the emulator and go back and review the numbers that came in to see if they were around the 80 I was being told. Since I have 2 radios as of today I could probably do what you mentioned, but I am not sure if I have an audio splitter cable. Also, I just had to go pick up my little one and on the way I thought about it. When adjusting rxamp, if you put it at 10, for example, the max values when the volume it 1/4 of the way is about 79 on the monitor command, when you put rxamp at 15 the monitor is at 127. So I would make sense the rxamp needs to be between 10 and 15 since those are the min and max values you get on monitor when the volume is at a "max."  Perhaps if I can't get that splitter cable, I can get out the 2 computers, watch the aprs website and check the packets to see where they are at. If its between 80-90 consistently and I try to see if I'm "offline" if you will on aprsisce and I'm not.........well then who knows. I know if I'm getting good packets on the emulator it should work, but it just seems I've tuned it to between 80-90 before and nothing, but who knows. Just got the kenwood today, so perhaps if I take another hour or two, I might get it to work. Time will tell........

Oh and I've tried to email TT4 experts in the area, over a month ago, to no reply. Can't seem to find any "nice" people that will come over and help me out.........wish I could find someone, its what I'd prefer.......



Questions answered (was: What do these things mean)

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

(Note: Wiki fodder included about 1/2 way down this message...)

On 2/20/2015 6:18 PM, godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] wrote:
One question I would like to ask now about aprsisce is this. Assuming this all gets working, when I pull up aprsisce, it immediately puts my callsign on the left side, should I immediately see an asterick or would it take a minute or two for it to pop up?

You won't see your own callsign with an asterisk unless you hear a digipeat of your own packet and receive it.  Most of the asterisk'd stations you'll see are others whose packets you received and decoded.  Once you get the TNC working and showing packets in the terminal emulator, then you'll likely want to check Configure / Scroller / IGate/Digi so that you can tell the difference between the packet originator and the digipeater that you may have copied it from.  But first we'll get some packets decoding and then get to seeing asterisks in the packet scroller.

BTW, what do you have currently checked in the Configure / Scroller submenu options?

...and also should the beacon time also reset and start a new countdown if you will? 

Your beacon time will reset and start a new countdown every time APRSISCE/32 decides to beacon.  How often this is depends on a lot of things if you have a GPS connected and active, but if you have no GPS, then it will only beacon a posit once every Configure / BeniusBeaconing / Max Time minutes.

I suspect the internal packets you're seeing in the packet scroller are actually telemetry packets.  These are sent whenever the values contained within them change or every 15 minutes (by default unless you manually edited the in the APRSIS32.XML file).

If you want to clean up the scroller by not showing Internal packets, just check Configure / Scroller / No Internals.  I run most of my clients that way since I really don't care about the internal packets.

Secondly, once the asterick shows with my id, when I click my balloon on the map, should the "internal" time reset when a packet is received...

What is this "internal time" that you're referring to?  I don't recall such a thing being displayed anywhere?

And is the "Balloon on the map" actually your own station, "ME"?

Or, if we take those two questions together, are you talking about the following information displayed when you see ME's popup menu?



In that displayed case, yes, ME's last processed packet was 2 minutes 53 seconds ago and it was an Internal packet.  The stuff after that describes the various ways that APRSISCE/32 has seen packets from this station, not necessarily just that single packet.  In fact, the "Internal" is one of the ways APRSISCE/32 may have heard a station and doesn't really describe the packet you may have clicked on, but the station itself.  ME (or your own callsign-SSID) should always have an "Internal" (I think).

I thought the Wiki had a list of the possibilities, but I didn't see it there, so here's what you might see in the popup menu for a station or on the last line of a station's popup information display:

Internal - An Internal packet was heard from the station (ME and locally-generated objects mostly)
LclRF[n] - Station was heard on a local RF port in the past 30 minutes. [n] is minimum used hop count. [0] = Direct
LclDigi[n] - Station was seen in the path in a packet received on an RF port, used or not (apparently)
3rd - a 3rd party packet was received from the station (likely an -IS to RF gated packet)
IGATE[n] - Station was seen after a q-construct.
Digi[n] - Station was seen in the path in a packet received on a non-RF (likely APRS-IS) port, used or not
TCP - a packet with TCPIP or TCPXX in the path was processed (busted by AGWTracker IGates)
RemRF - a packet from a non-RF port (likely APRS-IS) did NOT contain TCPIP or TCPXX implying it was gated from RF

[n] is count of packets of that type in the most recent clock hour, except LclRF in which case it is the lowest Used path component count. where [0] means that station was copied with no used path components.  This is the "local" part of the -IS to RF message gating logic.

Note that LclRF and 3rd will be automatically cleared if the station has not been heard on RF in the past 30 minutes.  This is the "recently" part of the -IS to RF message gating logic.  Also station's flagged with 3rd are the actual IGate, not the station contained within the 3rd party payload.

You'll notice how this list of ways a station may have been heard look very similar to the RF and Transport options under the View menu.  That's not a coincidence, the view options use the same station flags which are shown on the popup menu and station information popup display.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32





Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Curtis Wagner
 

Its cold, but at this point doesn't even phase me. I'll take the wouxun and try to listen. I know what you mean about the packets. I've seen the numbers "change" with whatever comes in, about 3 times within a minute, so there's obviously more than packets I need coming in. Is there a way to get the values you need in monitor, then exit the emulator so that the tt4 can decode, but still be able to monitor them in the emulator. I would think not, since you have to hit esc 3 times to get into that mode. Ahhhh that was probably a dumb question. At least I know to ignore the background noise and numbers you mentioned. I'll give this a go tomorrow and see what happens, that's when I hope to get enough alone/free time to be able to focus on this. One question I would like to ask now about aprsisce is this. Assuming this all gets working, when I pull up aprsisce, it immediately puts my callsign on the left side, should I immediately see an asterick or would it take a minute or two for it to pop up? Secondly, once the asterick shows with my id, when I click my balloon on the map, should the "internal" time reset when a packet is received and also should the beacon time also reset and start a new countdown if you will? 


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Greg Depew
 

Don't use the website. It is delayed and heavily filtered. Now that you have 2 radios turn them both on to the aprs freq and listen. When one hears a packet the other will as well then follow the directions from Lynn about terminal emulator and TEXT mode.



Greg KB3KBR Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce]" <aprsisce@...>
Date: 02/20/2015 17:47 (GMT-05:00)
To: aprsisce@...
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] What do these things mean APRSISCE

 

Well I think the flying blind part is accurate because when I was trying with the wouxun I would see values change on the monitor command but had no idea if it was a packet or what it was. The thing I did in that instance was, I had 2 laptops, so I turned one to the aprs website and the other was watching the emulator and monitor.....and when the aprs updated I'd stop the emulator and go back and review the numbers that came in to see if they were around the 80 I was being told. Since I have 2 radios as of today I could probably do what you mentioned, but I am not sure if I have an audio splitter cable. Also, I just had to go pick up my little one and on the way I thought about it. When adjusting rxamp, if you put it at 10, for example, the max values when the volume it 1/4 of the way is about 79 on the monitor command, when you put rxamp at 15 the monitor is at 127. So I would make sense the rxamp needs to be between 10 and 15 since those are the min and max values you get on monitor when the volume is at a "max."  Perhaps if I can't get that splitter cable, I can get out the 2 computers, watch the aprs website and check the packets to see where they are at. If its between 80-90 consistently and I try to see if I'm "offline" if you will on aprsisce and I'm not.........well then who knows. I know if I'm getting good packets on the emulator it should work, but it just seems I've tuned it to between 80-90 before and nothing, but who knows. Just got the kenwood today, so perhaps if I take another hour or two, I might get it to work. Time will tell........


Oh and I've tried to email TT4 experts in the area, over a month ago, to no reply. Can't seem to find any "nice" people that will come over and help me out.........wish I could find someone, its what I'd prefer.......


Re: What do these things mean APRSISCE

Lynn Deffenbaugh
 

There's almost no way I can imagine to reliably use watching the "aprs website" (by which I assume you mean aprs.fi) to know what packet was just on the air being heard by my radio/TNC combination.  With dupe filtering, multiple digi/Igates handling a packet, and just the vagueries of RF and APRS-IS propagation, it just doesn't line up.

And remember that the values you need to watch are the ones displayed while a packet is being received, not the background noise that's forever on the channel (I assume you're running open squelch removing the radio's squelch break timing variable from the decoding equation).  If you've got two radios, just tune one to your local APRS frequency and listen with your ears while the other is connected to the TNC.  Assuming similar antennas, they'll be hearing the same thing and you'll know if it's a packet, static, or just plain carrier with noise.  You're looking for (relatively) pure tones without much noise in them to look at and try to control the monitor values.

Too bad about the local APRS folks.   I will offer that if you're ever in my neck of the woods with all of your gear, I'd be glad to help you overcome this hurdle.  I was going to say "but don't come now, it's downright cold outside", but then I realized that it's probably colder where you are than where I am anyway!  (http://aprs.fi/KJ4ERJ-12)

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32



On 2/20/2015 5:47 PM, godfather_waggo@... [aprsisce] wrote:
Well I think the flying blind part is accurate because when I was trying with the wouxun I would see values change on the monitor command but had no idea if it was a packet or what it was. The thing I did in that instance was, I had 2 laptops, so I turned one to the aprs website and the other was watching the emulator and monitor.....and when the aprs updated I'd stop the emulator and go back and review the numbers that came in to see if they were around the 80 I was being told. Since I have 2 radios as of today I could probably do what you mentioned, but I am not sure if I have an audio splitter cable. Also, I just had to go pick up my little one and on the way I thought about it. When adjusting rxamp, if you put it at 10, for example, the max values when the volume it 1/4 of the way is about 79 on the monitor command, when you put rxamp at 15 the monitor is at 127. So I would make sense the rxamp needs to be between 10 and 15 since those are the min and max values you get on monitor when the volume is at a "max."  Perhaps if I can't get that splitter cable, I can get out the 2 computers, watch the aprs website and check the packets to see where they are at. If its between 80-90 consistently and I try to see if I'm "offline" if you will on aprsisce and I'm not.........well then who knows. I know if I'm getting good packets on the emulator it should work, but it just seems I've tuned it to between 80-90 before and nothing, but who knows. Just got the kenwood today, so perhaps if I take another hour or two, I might get it to work. Time will tell........

Oh and I've tried to email TT4 experts in the area, over a month ago, to no reply. Can't seem to find any "nice" people that will come over and help me out.........wish I could find someone, its what I'd prefer.......

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