Re: FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?


Greg Depew
 

435.075MHz t186 146.555rx sets the radio @ 435.075 correct tone  but still no 2m. 435.075MHz T186 146.555MHzrx did the same and i did not see any visible difference between T186 and  t186


To: aprsisce@...
From: goatherder_4891@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:36:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 

i set the obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123 and the ftm 350 correctly took the input from the name but not the tone however if i make an object 144.630P(name) 145.230MHz T123 it sets the radio in simplex with the correct tone.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:28:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You are now at the point that spawned a bunch of the recent traffic in this group as well as in the aprssig.  The answer is, "we don't know yet".  The FTM-350 seems to now be shown to completely ignore any frequencies in the object name and only uses frequencies from the comment regardless of the name.

The testers are still trying to figure out what all to test to verify what the existing APRS radios do, and then we need to figure out just what standards will work with the most existing stuff and break the least stuff, and then document that sufficiently for the future.

So, you now probably have objects that work with both Kenwoods and FTM-350s, regardless of the fact that APRSISCE/32 says they're non-compliant.  They are, per the current spec, but they need to be or the FTM-350 won't use it.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 6:22 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
ok so now the big question is how should the objects look like? if 145.230-w 145.230Mhz T186 -060 is ok but not because the name is the freq do we need to change the name? and i just made a cross-band obj 146.555(name) 435.075MHz t186. The ftm 350 qsy's to 435.075 with tone 186.2 but does not cross band to the 146.555 in the name.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 18:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
Because with the current spec, the object name's frequency should never match the frequency specified in the comment.  Per the spec, this would be defining a simplex station with the same transmit (object name) ad receive (comment) frequencies.  (Parentheticals are relative to the repeater being defined).

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author

On 5/8/2012 5:56 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
that is what my current objects have and aprs32 is saying non compliant. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
It's supposed to be the MHz that's necessary, not the rx.  Name your object 145.230-w (or whatever you want), but make the comment "145.230MHz T186 -060" (no quotes, of course) and it should work.  Note the absence of the rx.

Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:44 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
if theres no rx after the 145.230 the 350 goes to simplex, and if i have an obj 145.230-w(name) T186 -060 it will NOT  qsy. KB3KBR Greg


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
You probably don't need the rx after the MHz, actually.  And to be clear, which "it" now qsy's properly?  A D72?  or something else?

And the name is still supposed to be the repeater's OUTPUT frequency, the frequency that a user would LISTEN to.  The frequency in the packet (per spec) is supposed to be the repeater's non-standard INPUT frequency.  If your Kenwood radio going the other way, I suspect it's ignoring the frequency in the object name in favor of the one in the comment.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

On 5/8/2012 5:30 PM, Greg Depew wrote:
I have now created an obj 144.630PA(name) 145.230MHzrx T123. It now qsy's properly. Although i think its very confusing to see the input in the name rather than the output, especially when using a non qsy-able rig such as the vx8g.


To: aprsisce@...
From: kj4erj@...
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:21:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [aprsisce] FTM-350 FREQ OBJ problem?

 
On 5/8/2012 5:00 PM, James Ewen wrote:
> Lynn, can you show me again where there's the FFF.FFFMHz definition
> for the rx frequency in the FREQUENCY OBJECT definition. I've got 3
> versions of the freqspec document open and I can't find it...

There isn't. The only provision for a second frequency in a FREQUENCY
OBJECT is in the following statement:

> If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.

According to how I read the following quote, NONE of the nice 1st/2nd 10
character stuff applies to frequency objects, you get the frequency in
the object name and that's all! Because everything else REQUIRES an
FFF.FF MHz or FFF.FFFMHz in the first 10 bytes which, by what I quoted
above, would be the transmit frequency.

> APRS FREQUENCY FORMATS:
> -----------------------
>
> There are two Frequency formats. The POSITION COMMENT format includes
> the frequency as FFF.FFFMHz in the free field text of a normal
> position or object report as noted above. The other is called the
> OBJECT format because it puts the Frequency in the OBJECT NAME using
> the format of FFF.FFxyz so that it shows up very clearly on the
> radio's positions list. Of course, an object can also have a frequency
> in its position comment as well. If both the object name and the
> comment contain a frequency, then the name is considered the transmit
> frequency for the object and the frequency in its comment text is
> its crossband or non-standard split receive frequency.
>
> As noted before, a 10x10x+ format is used for the POSITION COMMENT
> format for best display on the existing variety of APRS radios. Here
> are the standard 10-byte formats. Please note that spaces are
> required where shown. In some cases a "_" may be shown for clarity
> in this document, but in the actual format, a SPACE should be used:
>
> 1st 10-BYTES Frequency Description
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> FFF.FF MHz Freq to nearest 10 KHz
> FFF.FFFMHz Freq to nearest 1 KHz
>
> Examples:
> 146.52 MHz Enroute Alabama
> 147.105MHz AARC Radio Club
> 146.82 MHz T107 AARC Repeater (Tone of 107.2)
> 146.835MHz C107 R25m AARC (CTCSS of 107.3 and range of 25 mi)
> 146.805MHz D256 R25k Repeater (DCS code and range of 25 km)
> 146.40 MHz T067 +100 Repeater (67.8 tone and +1.00 MHz offset)
> 442.440MHz T107 -500 Repeater (107.2 tone and 5 MHz offset)
> 145.50 MHz t077 Simplex (Tone of 77.X Hz and NARROW band)
>
> 2nd 10-BYTES Optional Added fields (with leading space)
> ---------- -----------------------------------------------------
> _Txxx RXXm Optional PL tone and nominal range in miles
> _Cxxx RXXm Optional CTCSS tone and range in miles
> _Dxxx RXXk Optional DCS code and nominal range in kilometers
> _1750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone, range in km, wide modulation
> _l750 RXXk Optional 1750 tone narrow modulation (lower case L)
> _Toff RXXk Optional NO-PL, No DCS, no Tone, etc.
> _Txxx +060 Optional Offset of +600 KHz (up to 9.90 MHz)
> _Exxm Wxxm East range and West range if different (N,S,E,W)
> _txxx RXXm Lower case first letter means NARROW modulation
> _FFF.FFFrx Alternate receiver Frequency if not standard offset

THIS is why we need to unify the specification to ALLOW a frequency as
the object name, but define ONE AND ONLY ONE set of parameters for the
Position Comment that provides ALL of the required information.

Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32











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