Date   
Re: new mode

David, K9DWR
 

* Jerry N9AVY <@N9AVY> [2019-04-22 20:33]:
Why all this info on FT8 ??? PODXS is PSK31club ! Maybe we should
change to an FT8 club ???
Maybe if it's an FT* pitchfork club, since grousing about FT-whatever seems to
be the flavor of the day anymore. I know venting is important as a therapeutic
release, but is there any action behind it that can be productive? We don't
"own" a spot any more than the next guy, so we should probably put our effort
to working with what we have instead of continuing to complain about other
modes.

--
David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@...

Re: FT4 Blight

Randy True
 

I also belong to the FT4/8 Facebook group, so I though I would make a post about jumping the PSK frequencies. I was going to copy the replies here, but it appears the Moderator took offense and took down the posts. I made them aware that the FT8 group had taken over our section on 17M and that now they are suggesting that the FT4 group take our section of 30, and if they couldn't change the suggested frequencies so as not to cause interference to us.
Replies ranged from; hmmmm, do people still use PSK, I listened for WEEKS and didn't see any signals, plus several other snide remarks I can't remember. Then the Moderator stated he was going to close the thread before, "it ran off the rails."
They just don't give a hoot !

Randy W4RTT


From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of F.R. Ashley <gdadx2@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2019 10:14 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] FT4 Blight
 

Dick,

Yes, 10.140 is  the "suggested" frequency for FT4.  I was listening there for a few minutes a little while ago and just heard static.

73 Buddy WB4M

#1545

On 5/1/2019 04:40 PM, Richard Rohrer wrote:
I got on 10.140 this afternoon and it has already been taken over by the FT4 users.  Where do we need to move to?
--
Dick - KC3EF
070 - 747

History lesson

Jerry N9AVY
 

Few here will probably recall the great AM/SSB “war” that took place in the late 1950’s, but it separated our ham ranks. 

 

At one point AM phone was the only phone mode which was used.  Then, along came SSB which used half the bandwidth, but required more complex circuitry.  In a nutshell, SSB became the mode of choice for the masses and AM phone was relegated to the ham radio basement. (There are still some who hold on to AM , but a very small group.)

 

Perhaps the handwriting is on the wall for more efficient modes of digital communications. What happens with digital modes is largely up to the majority and all of us will have to live with that.  We’ll just have to see what the future holds.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: History lesson

F.R. Ashley
 

Yes that is correct Jerry. We all know what PSK31 did to RTTY. QSO's , and PSK31 is not immune from other new modes coming along and displacing PSK.  Heck I still like old linked modes like Amtor, Clover, and Pactor but they died out years ago.  I guess we have to roll with the punches and see what happens..

73 Buddy WB4M

Perhaps the handwriting is on the wall for more efficient modes of digital communications. What happens with digital modes is largely up to the majority and all of us will have to live with that.  We’ll just have to see what the future holds.

 

Jerry  n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Re: History lesson

K7DWI Art
 

I have been a ham for 40 years. I enjoy all modes, probably CW more. 
Also enjoyed PSK31 since the early 2000's.
Sadly didn't see much support from it's own community at times. ARRL is a joke.
I am pulling down the station and moving soon....again.
Don't know if I am going to return to the hobby.
The FT..whatever group is really off the wall. I got in to with them about those running high power for no good reason. 1500 watts!.
Oh well it is only a hobby. The station is down in 2 weeks.
73 Art KA5DWI #2518

re History

John Kirby
 

For whom the bells toll

John
N3AAZ
ham 1957
retired 1997

Re: History lesson

David, K9DWR
 

This is not a direct comparison, though. SSB/AM is being able to do more with less. By definition, SSB does the same thing with half the bandwidth; it’s hard to argue that’s a bad thing. That’s not what the FT/PSK discussion is about, though. They are _completely_ different types of operation; you aren’t going to have a conversation with FT (yet, anyway). From a technical standpoint, the FT modes are very interesting and have a lot of value in the _short_ exchange space in lousy conditions. If the goal is to be able to pass information no matter what, having FT in your bag of tricks is not a bad thing to have.

The real issue is the apparent lack of proper operating etiquette being demonstrated these days. All modes can exist equally, and ALL modes have value, but only if everyone plays nicely. The only reason this is even a discussion is because people are getting stepped on, and this is _encouraged_ by default settings in software. This is not a technical “who’s mode is better?” question; it’s a “frequency in use?” question. That goes for SSB/AM, FT/PSK, PSK/RTTY, etc. Nobody should be deliberately stepping on someone else, regardless of what mode is in use; but that’s exactly what’s happening.



David, K9DWR
#1604 LONP #255
david@...

On May 2, 2019, at 15:59, F.R. Ashley <gdadx2@...> wrote:

Yes that is correct Jerry. We all know what PSK31 did to RTTY. QSO's , and PSK31 is not immune from other new modes coming along and displacing PSK. Heck I still like old linked modes like Amtor, Clover, and Pactor but they died out years ago. I guess we have to roll with the punches and see what happens..

73 Buddy WB4M


Perhaps the handwriting is on the wall for more efficient modes of digital communications. What happens with digital modes is largely up to the majority and all of us will have to live with that. We’ll just have to see what the future holds.

30mtrs Calling CQ

Richard Rohrer
 

10.140
--
Dick - KC3EF
070 - 747

Re: 30mtrs Calling CQ

Rick - N7WE
 

Looked but couldn't see you Dick.  Must be we're too close for verticals to get it done.
--
Rick - N7WE
070 - #1602

Re: History lesson

Robert Motyl
 

Just read the FT8 vs RTTY article in May 2019 QST.  In the second paragraph and I quote, "The very popular PSK31, which has been the dominant keyboard digital mode for the past two decades, is being replaced by FT8".  Not sure how how the author came to that conclusion. 
1. I didn't see any sources listed.
2. By the FT communities own admission they just exchange call sign, grid location and signal strength.  My opinion  PSK is in a different amateur radio market if you will.   How does FT8 replace something  with different capabilities?

The article also states that FT8 "uses far less power and simpler antennas than RTTY".  "My opinion" is that most are not using it that way.

Full disclosure, I have used  JT65,, JT9  when I first started five years ago.  It was a nice way for me to transition into the hobby.  I also used FT8 for some time before I got tired of the mode.  Sorry that's the way I feel.
If anything FT8 has replaced JT65 and JT9.  Hard to find anyone using those modes these days.

I stumbled on to PODXS a few years ago and I have never looked back.  I was warmly welcomed and the group was very helpful right from the start.  I just want to thank all the members who have worked hard to give us this venue.  Looking forwarded to many years using PSK.

Sincerely,
Bob  KK6KMU

Re: History lesson

Jerry N9AVY
 

Bob:

 

I think the author of that article was using “wishful thinking “ on his part; maybe “literary license”.  Don’t believe everything you read.

 

Have chatted with quite a few hams who have departed from FT8 because they say, “it’s boring”.  The only benefit I can see is that it’s a good way to work a lot of DX in a hurry.

 

I happened upon PODXS for many of the same reasons you stated.  PODXS is a fun bunch !

 

You seem to be a fairly consistent signal from CA. Hear you often, but don’t always respond.

 

RTTY and CW are still viable modes and I believe they’ll be with us for many more years as will PSK31.  Wish there were more PSK stations on the air, but that may be resolved with better propagation.

 

Jerry   n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Robert Motyl
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 3:41 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson

 

Just read the FT8 vs RTTY article in May 2019 QST.  In the second paragraph and I quote, "The very popular PSK31, which has been the dominant keyboard digital mode for the past two decades, is being replaced by FT8".  Not sure how how the author came to that conclusion. 
1. I didn't see any sources listed.
2. By the FT communities own admission they just exchange call sign, grid location and signal strength.  My opinion  PSK is in a different amateur radio market if you will.   How does FT8 replace something  with different capabilities?

The article also states that FT8 "uses far less power and simpler antennas than RTTY".  "My opinion" is that most are not using it that way.

Full disclosure, I have used  JT65,, JT9  when I first started five years ago.  It was a nice way for me to transition into the hobby.  I also used FT8 for some time before I got tired of the mode.  Sorry that's the way I feel.
If anything FT8 has replaced JT65 and JT9.  Hard to find anyone using those modes these days.

I stumbled on to PODXS a few years ago and I have never looked back.  I was warmly welcomed and the group was very helpful right from the start.  I just want to thank all the members who have worked hard to give us this venue.  Looking forwarded to many years using PSK.

Sincerely,
Bob  KK6KMU

 

Re: History lesson

Randy True
 

I still have the contacts that I have made on FT in my logbook, but I have removed the software  from my machine. I want nothing further to do with it.

Randy W4RTT


From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 5:47 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson
 

Bob:

 

I think the author of that article was using “wishful thinking “ on his part; maybe “literary license”.  Don’t believe everything you read.

 

Have chatted with quite a few hams who have departed from FT8 because they say, “it’s boring”.  The only benefit I can see is that it’s a good way to work a lot of DX in a hurry.

 

I happened upon PODXS for many of the same reasons you stated.  PODXS is a fun bunch !

 

You seem to be a fairly consistent signal from CA. Hear you often, but don’t always respond.

 

RTTY and CW are still viable modes and I believe they’ll be with us for many more years as will PSK31.  Wish there were more PSK stations on the air, but that may be resolved with better propagation.

 

Jerry   n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Robert Motyl
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 3:41 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson

 

Just read the FT8 vs RTTY article in May 2019 QST.  In the second paragraph and I quote, "The very popular PSK31, which has been the dominant keyboard digital mode for the past two decades, is being replaced by FT8".  Not sure how how the author came to that conclusion. 
1. I didn't see any sources listed.
2. By the FT communities own admission they just exchange call sign, grid location and signal strength.  My opinion  PSK is in a different amateur radio market if you will.   How does FT8 replace something  with different capabilities?

The article also states that FT8 "uses far less power and simpler antennas than RTTY".  "My opinion" is that most are not using it that way.

Full disclosure, I have used  JT65,, JT9  when I first started five years ago.  It was a nice way for me to transition into the hobby.  I also used FT8 for some time before I got tired of the mode.  Sorry that's the way I feel.
If anything FT8 has replaced JT65 and JT9.  Hard to find anyone using those modes these days.

I stumbled on to PODXS a few years ago and I have never looked back.  I was warmly welcomed and the group was very helpful right from the start.  I just want to thank all the members who have worked hard to give us this venue.  Looking forwarded to many years using PSK.

Sincerely,
Bob  KK6KMU

 

Re: History lesson

William Schwiegeraht
 

Well, in all fairness to the author, he didn't write an article on the death of PSK31: He wrote an article on Frequency Calibration, so i'm not sure that his lack of sources took away from his primary subject.  He did not claim that PSK31 was dead, nor RTTY for that matter.  The word "replaced" was used in the context of being the most popular digital mode at present.  One would have to be deaf when parked on the dial frequency of each mode on multiple bands to not notice that fact.  None of this is to say that PSK, RTTY, or any other mode doesn't have its place in amateur radio - it's all about finding one's interest and pursuing it!  RIght now, FT8 has captured the interest of lots of hams.

73,
Bill, N8KSG

Re: History lesson

Dan Morris - KZ3T
 

Me too Randy!!!

Dan Morris  KZ3T

I live to live for Him!



On May 6, 2019, at 1:16 AM, Randy True <w4rttrandy@...> wrote:

I still have the contacts that I have made on FT in my logbook, but I have removed the software  from my machine. I want nothing further to do with it.

Randy W4RTT

From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> on behalf of Jerry N9AVY <n9avy@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 5:47 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson
 
Bob:

 

I think the author of that article was using “wishful thinking “ on his part; maybe “literary license”.  Don’t believe everything you read.

 

Have chatted with quite a few hams who have departed from FT8 because they say, “it’s boring”.  The only benefit I can see is that it’s a good way to work a lot of DX in a hurry.

 

I happened upon PODXS for many of the same reasons you stated.  PODXS is a fun bunch !

 

You seem to be a fairly consistent signal from CA. Hear you often, but don’t always respond.

 

RTTY and CW are still viable modes and I believe they’ll be with us for many more years as will PSK31.  Wish there were more PSK stations on the air, but that may be resolved with better propagation.

 

Jerry   n9avy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Robert Motyl
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2019 3:41 PM
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson

 

Just read the FT8 vs RTTY article in May 2019 QST.  In the second paragraph and I quote, "The very popular PSK31, which has been the dominant keyboard digital mode for the past two decades, is being replaced by FT8".  Not sure how how the author came to that conclusion. 
1. I didn't see any sources listed.
2. By the FT communities own admission they just exchange call sign, grid location and signal strength.  My opinion  PSK is in a different amateur radio market if you will.   How does FT8 replace something  with different capabilities?

The article also states that FT8 "uses far less power and simpler antennas than RTTY".  "My opinion" is that most are not using it that way.

Full disclosure, I have used  JT65,, JT9  when I first started five years ago.  It was a nice way for me to transition into the hobby.  I also used FT8 for some time before I got tired of the mode.  Sorry that's the way I feel.
If anything FT8 has replaced JT65 and JT9.  Hard to find anyone using those modes these days.

I stumbled on to PODXS a few years ago and I have never looked back.  I was warmly welcomed and the group was very helpful right from the start.  I just want to thank all the members who have worked hard to give us this venue.  Looking forwarded to many years using PSK.

Sincerely,
Bob  KK6KMU

 


Re: History lesson

Ray Clements
 

PSKReporter.info is a good site for tracking mode activity on the various bands.
 For the past 24 hours, In the past 24 hours, there were only 18 active monitors running PSK31. Sixteen of those monitors were on the 20 meter band and most of the signals recorded were from USA, Canada, and Europe. There were only a few signals reported from Mexico, the Caribbean,  South America, the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Australia and Oceana.

RTTY shows even less activity with only 6 monitors with most signals being in Europe and Japan. There is some activity in North-East USA.



On the other hand, there were 143 active monitors on FT4 and 3282 on FT8. There is significant FT8 activity even on bands such as 60 meters that seldom see PSK activity. Thus, it is fair to say that FT4 and FT8 have effectively "replaced" PSK and RTTY as the modes of choice during the current period of poor propagation conditions. That is not in any way implying that FT4 and FT8 are "better" than PSK and RTTY. It is only an indication that the FT modes are capable of sending and receiving signals under propagation conditions so poor that the PSK and RTTY modes have limited utility, especially for making DX contacts.

We are in the waning days of Solar Cycle 24 with Cycle 25 expected to begin sometime later this year. Propagation is unlikely to improve during 2020, with the exception of sporadic occurrences.
Solar activity is predicted to improve between 2021 and 2025 before it starts to decline again. At some point during this time the FT modes are likely to become too sensitive for the propagation conditions unless people cut back to QRP power levels. During this time PSK activity is likely to return to the levels seen during the 2013-2014 peak of Cycle 24. However, as Cycle 25 starts its decline after 2025, there will come a time in when the FT modes  (with whichever variants are available at that time) will once again become useful and PSK is likely to fall out of favor once again.

If your station is capable of making contacts on PSK under poor conditions, that is wonderful. However, many comments on this forum reveal a high level of frustration due to poor conditions. If you cannot make contacts using PSK, use whatever modes are at your disposal.


Ray N9RWC






------ Original Message ------
Received: 04:10 AM CDT, 05/06/2019
From: "William Schwiegeraht via Groups.Io" <bswag@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson


Well, in all fairness to the author, he didn't write an article on the death of PSK31: He wrote an article on Frequency Calibration, so i'm not sure that his lack of sources took away from his primary subject.  He did not claim that PSK31 was dead, nor RTTY for that matter.  The word "replaced" was used in the context of being the most popular digital mode at present.  One would have to be deaf when parked on the dial frequency of each mode on multiple bands to not notice that fact.  None of this is to say that PSK, RTTY, or any other mode doesn't have its place in amateur radio - it's all about finding one's interest and pursuing it!  RIght now, FT8 has captured the interest of lots of hams.

73,
Bill, N8KSG

Re: History lesson

Phil Royce
 

Good Afternoon,

 

I find this to be an excellent write up on the limitations or advantages of a digital mode during propagation changes, it is interesting to see the statistical data that is defining this write up.  I find that anymore using any mode is worthwhile as long as it’s a worthwhile contact. 

 

My only concern with the new modes of the FT version are the operating methods and etiquette used on these new modes.  Recently with the new FT4 there have been many transmissions made right over the top of a QSO going on, in a RTTY portion of the band, in a PSK portion of the band, or extreme over deviation.  On the FT-8 portion of 20 meters on Monday there was a blast of noise for over a 1 meg width on the beginning of a transmission of a FT-8 and this repeated ever transmission for a very long time.

 

So yes these new modes are great, but there also needs to be some serious discussion between all the digital groups about proper operation of transmitters, ALC, portions of the band, proper operating with other operators on the bands. I believe the first thing I was taught was listen to the frequency before I transmit, does that happen anymore?  HIHI  Otherwise we are going to have a real headache, if we don’t already have it, with not being able to operate due to interference or lack of discipline of operators. 

 

Overall I think the test of the FT4 was very interesting and successful, I heard stations in that mode in countries that I never hear normally, so I just hope that we all can get along with each other in our sections of the bands.   Now back to my PSK31 QSO.

 

73 de ke4pwe

 

From: 070Club@groups.io <070Club@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Clements
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2019 9:01 AM
To: 070Club@groups.io; William Schwiegeraht via Groups.Io <bswag@...>
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson

 

PSKReporter.info is a good site for tracking mode activity on the various bands.

 For the past 24 hours, In the past 24 hours, there were only 18 active monitors running PSK31. Sixteen of those monitors were on the 20 meter band and most of the signals recorded were from USA, Canada, and Europe. There were only a few signals reported from Mexico, the Caribbean,  South America, the Middle East, Asia, Africa, Australia and Oceana.

 

RTTY shows even less activity with only 6 monitors with most signals being in Europe and Japan. There is some activity in North-East USA.

 

 

 

On the other hand, there were 143 active monitors on FT4 and 3282 on FT8. There is significant FT8 activity even on bands such as 60 meters that seldom see PSK activity. Thus, it is fair to say that FT4 and FT8 have effectively "replaced" PSK and RTTY as the modes of choice during the current period of poor propagation conditions. That is not in any way implying that FT4 and FT8 are "better" than PSK and RTTY. It is only an indication that the FT modes are capable of sending and receiving signals under propagation conditions so poor that the PSK and RTTY modes have limited utility, especially for making DX contacts.

 

We are in the waning days of Solar Cycle 24 with Cycle 25 expected to begin sometime later this year. Propagation is unlikely to improve during 2020, with the exception of sporadic occurrences.

Solar activity is predicted to improve between 2021 and 2025 before it starts to decline again. At some point during this time the FT modes are likely to become too sensitive for the propagation conditions unless people cut back to QRP power levels. During this time PSK activity is likely to return to the levels seen during the 2013-2014 peak of Cycle 24. However, as Cycle 25 starts its decline after 2025, there will come a time in when the FT modes  (with whichever variants are available at that time) will once again become useful and PSK is likely to fall out of favor once again.

 

If your station is capable of making contacts on PSK under poor conditions, that is wonderful. However, many comments on this forum reveal a high level of frustration due to poor conditions. If you cannot make contacts using PSK, use whatever modes are at your disposal.

 

 

Ray N9RWC

 

 

 

 

 

 

------ Original Message ------
Received: 04:10 AM CDT, 05/06/2019
From: "William Schwiegeraht via Groups.Io" <bswag@...>
To: 070Club@groups.io
Subject: Re: [070Club] History lesson

Well, in all fairness to the author, he didn't write an article on the death of PSK31: He wrote an article on Frequency Calibration, so i'm not sure that his lack of sources took away from his primary subject.  He did not claim that PSK31 was dead, nor RTTY for that matter.  The word "replaced" was used in the context of being the most popular digital mode at present.  One would have to be deaf when parked on the dial frequency of each mode on multiple bands to not notice that fact.  None of this is to say that PSK, RTTY, or any other mode doesn't have its place in amateur radio - it's all about finding one's interest and pursuing it!  RIght now, FT8 has captured the interest of lots of hams.

73,
Bill, N8KSG

 

Strange Mode on 14070

W5DP
 

Yesterday, in the middle of a QSO, this strong signal with a strange mode came right down on top of me, and made it impossible (almost) for me to complete the QSO. 

This morning, I'm see on the waterfall a signal that looks just like the one I saw yesterday. Anybody have a clue what this mode is? I tried all the modes my software has, and none of them worked.

Thank you
Dusty
W5DP 

Re: Strange Mode on 14070

Mike Besemer - WM4B #348
 

Pics?

Mike
WM4B


On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:26 AM, W5DP wrote:

 Yesterday, in the middle of a QSO, this strong signal with a strange mode came right down on top of me, and made it impossible (almost) for me to complete the QSO. 

This morning, I'm see on the waterfall a signal that looks just like the one I saw yesterday. Anybody have a clue what this mode is? I tried all the modes my software has, and none of them worked.

Thank you
Dusty

Re: Strange Mode on 14070

W5DP
 

Good idea! I'll try to take a pic the next time I see one. 

Re: Strange Mode on 14070

W5DP
 



Sorry I couldn't rotate it. On my PC it is oriented correctly. 
Dusty
W5DP